Berti Vogts | 1968-1974


Moderators: lucashag, Adrien, Albo7, Korinov, Brezza, jurgens

Forum rules
User avatar
PES Stats Database
PSD Backbone
Posts: 19660
Joined: 2008 Dec 09, 12:06
Been thanked: 502 times

Berti Vogts | 1968-1974

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 Apr 06, 20:58

Nickname: "Der Terrier"

Club: Borussia Mönchengladbach



Growth type: Early/Lasting

INFO:

Hans-Hubert "Berti" Vogts, started his career in his hometown club VfR Büttgen. The right-sided defender was soon picked up by one of West Germany’s top clubs at the time, Borussia Mönchengladbach, where he established himself and played for fourteen years. Nicknamed “Der Terrier” for always fighting for every ball as it was his last, Vogts was a big favourite with his home crowd. In 1967, he made his debut for West Germany and three years later he took part in his first big tournament, the World Cup in Mexico. Berti played in every game as the Germans captured bronzemedals.

Vogts seldom had to settle for second best at club level. His impressive roll of honour included five league championships, one domestic cup title and two UEFA Cup titles all with the same club, Borussia Mönchengladbach. On a personal note, he was named German Player of the Year twice. One trophy that eluded him was the European Cup which he came very close of winning in 1977 when his team lost 3-1 to Liverpool in the final in Rome.

By then he was already a World Cup winner. Three years earlier, West Germany hosted and won the World Cup with Vogts as one of their most important players. He played in all the seven matches including the final where he was marking the Dutch star Johann Cruyff with success. He was infact an ever-present in every of the three World Cups he participated in, making his total of games to 19, beaten by only five other players in World Cup history.

In 1977, Berti took over the captaincy of the national team from Franz Beckenbauer and kept it until after the Argentina World Cup the following year which was no success for him or the team as West Germany bowed out in the second phase. He retired as a player in 1979 and started working as a scout before taking over the German national team as coach in 1990 leading them to victory in Euro 1996.


VIDEOS:


(scoring at 00:13)


(on the beginning you can see his sliding tackle; on 4:04 his good reaction and solid 1-2 passing;
in the last 10 seconds you can see that Vogts and Beckenbauer switched roles)


ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berti_Vogts

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/vogts.html

http://european-football.suite101.com/a ... erti_vogts

http://www.worldfootball.net/spieler_pr ... rti-vogts/

http://www.footballdatabase.eu/football ... 10.en.html

Last edited by Adrien on 2013 Apr 05, 09:31, edited 11 times in total.
Reason: Updated DA
User avatar
Brezza
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2276
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby Brezza » 2009 Apr 06, 21:09

Although Berti could come forward was one of the best defensive Fullback's ever, superb man-to man marker and tackler. Like the text says he completly subdued Cruyff in the 74 final
his defence should be closer to that of Djalma Santos I beleive .

Also If anyone deserves 95+ for mentality it would be Vogts. He stuck to his job and closed down his marker furiously and everywhere around the pitch always fighting for every ball as it was his last. ;)
electric_trigger
Seasoned Stat Maker
Posts: 636
Joined: 2009 Mar 05, 11:59
Location: Cardiff

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby electric_trigger » 2009 Apr 06, 21:26

cheers Brezza :D
cutthroat
PSD Youth League
Posts: 81
Joined: 2008 Dec 12, 03:25

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby cutthroat » 2009 Apr 06, 21:27

i'd say Stamina at least 90
electric_trigger
Seasoned Stat Maker
Posts: 636
Joined: 2009 Mar 05, 11:59
Location: Cardiff

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby electric_trigger » 2009 Apr 06, 21:28

cheers cutthroat :D
electric_trigger
Seasoned Stat Maker
Posts: 636
Joined: 2009 Mar 05, 11:59
Location: Cardiff

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby electric_trigger » 2009 Apr 06, 21:31

Ok Brezza, Cuthroat, he does look a little terrier like, can't wait to see how he plays- cheers! :D
cutthroat
PSD Youth League
Posts: 81
Joined: 2008 Dec 12, 03:25

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby cutthroat » 2009 Apr 07, 01:32

yep, he was gattuso-like in his day.. a hard worker with little offensive skill
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2403
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 523 times

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby Oriello » 2009 May 04, 01:08

The Attack at 71-72 would be pushing it, Berti was not this great at flying down the wing above someone like Cristiano Molinaro 74 at the moment who is a far better contributor in the capacity of his runs, a good modern comparison player for Vogts is Arne Freidrich when he played at RB for Hertha and Germany - he gave defensive solidness but little more. I personally rate Berti at 69 (max 70) in Attack nothing special or penetrating about his runs forward. Also 86 for Aggression is simply sky high, as Brezza alluded to him being a defensive fullback, and while he could show an adventurous spirit at times, I am not sure if he was above Dani Alvees :P , a rating of 70-72 would be more fitting especially for the 1974 World Cup campaign where he seemed to be far more reserved than from what I glimpsed in the 1970 edition, but again that was a far more liberal and gallant attacking side, soo... :P :lol: . :mrgreen:

The Long Pass Accuracy of 81 I think is 2-3 points too high, not that consistently dangerous in the cross from what I could tell.

Jump is definately underrated, had a ferocious leap and could get some serious air considering his small stature, a Jump of 89-92 is more fair, seen some fantastic last ditch headed clearances where he flew over the head of taller forwards in wait. In the same breath his header could be raised slightly to somethijg like 81, solid composed clearances.

Dribble Speed could be higher, a 78 or so along with Dribble Accuracy up two points, this probably is me mainly being influenced as to how quick West Germany could move the ball around when in possession, passing or 1-1's - every player was able and no one seemed to lack that extra yard to undo the chasing opposition, including Berti when he did participate in moves.

And are you positive on the speed factor? The Top Speed might be a wee bit much - or fine, but Acceleration does seem maybe 2 points too high? though I may be wrong. :?
electric_trigger
Seasoned Stat Maker
Posts: 636
Joined: 2009 Mar 05, 11:59
Location: Cardiff

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby electric_trigger » 2009 May 05, 17:30

Thanks for feedback Oriello! :D made some adjustments
electric_trigger
Seasoned Stat Maker
Posts: 636
Joined: 2009 Mar 05, 11:59
Location: Cardiff

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby electric_trigger » 2009 Aug 22, 13:11

updated defence 85>80
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2403
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 523 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1973-1974

Postby Oriello » 2009 Oct 03, 00:50

Why did you drop his Defense by -5 points? I thought that it was rated rather well at that level. He was a very capable defender and defended as good as any cb postionally, If Maldini gets to be in the higher echelons like 96-89 forget which and Djalma Santos is 85 then Vogts surely can be near them. I knoe there is a SB realginment in the defence value of modern fullbacks, but that is just it modern fullback save for rare cases such as J. Zanetti of G, Neville cannot defend properly, in the 70's at least fullbacks were still realtively great defensively in compariosn to with current/modern wide defenders who play like 'auxillury wingers'. :P
Plava Čigra
Valued Contributor
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1973-1974

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 10, 11:35

1. He could play at both sides.

2. He was used also as SWP, CB, DMF in Borussia Mönchengladbach. In national team he was almost exclusively used as right back.

3. Despite many people appreciate just his defensive abilities, he was pretty solid in offensive tasks. I think rating his Attack under 70 would be a mistake (current value, 72 seems good to me).

4. His Era should be expanded to 1968-1974 (although it could be even wider range, because he really was one of the greatest and most consistent right backs of all times).

5. Although first value for Aggression (86) was too much, I think he could have Aggression: 79-81. People often watch just his national team performances, where he was more used in defensive tasks. In Borussia Mönchengladbach he was pretty balanced player (he could cover complete right side, from box to box).

6. I'm not gonna state obvious/equivalent cards, but I'm gonna suggest assigning P02: Deep Cover, because this Card can be turned off/on (I'm thinking that he can be worth of this card in national team).

7. His Balance could go up by 2-3 points (if we consider his height/weight). Also SA and SP seems too low. Maybe SA: 65-68 and SP: 78-80 (not too sure about precise numbers). Also, if Consistency is added, I think it should be 8/7.

8. This is just a question, not a suggestion. Does anybody think that he could have low red number for Stamina?
Plava Čigra
Valued Contributor
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 10, 12:45

electric_trigger gave me permission to update this player (because he has been having some troubles with his laptop), so I did (new format and updated some Abilities). Only thing I forgot to mention in my suggestions was his SPA, which I've raised from 74>76. Also, I've left Stamina at 90 until we get more opinions on that.

I hope it's looks good now. ;)
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2403
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 523 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby Oriello » 2010 Jan 10, 15:56

On the note of Attack I still stand by 70 being the upper limit for him, he was not that much of a threat moving forward, only the pace and aggressiveness of his support up the wing-sometimes through the centre was gave him an air of danger coming up, his movment thhough was nothing more special than Lucio charging up from deep.

I still think his LPA at 81 is over kill, both on his crossing and balls out of the back he was no more than 77 special for myself.

I got some West Germany games waiting to be watched and will try to make some more comparitive comments near end of Febuary, got a week off then to drown myself in some classic matches.

On Consistency Agree on its inclusion, I forgot that I seen it was missing, but as a PES5 user I kept shut :mrgreen: , I would probably go with a 7 more so, but that was just my impression, Berti was not quite that clinical defensivly and in other areas on the pitch to be on the top bracket of an 8, things like his Mentality just made him work beyond his limits, I think he was a bit lower than the machine that was Maldini recently who 'practically' never put a foot wrong.
Plava Čigra
Valued Contributor
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 10, 17:15

I can go along with Attack: 70 (yellow Aggression solves that problem), LPA: 79 (I think that that he's on the line between green and yellow area) and Consistency: 7 (I actually wasn't sure whether to give 7 or 8). In fact, I'll change the values to that numbers.

Any observations about his Stamina?

I hope you can come back and comment his stats after watching those WC games (although you should always keep in mind that he often had more offensive role in Mönchengladbach).
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2403
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 485 times
Been thanked: 523 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby Oriello » 2010 Jan 10, 19:39

Stamina I am not sure, I would need to watch him specifically to get a sense if he got fatigued, but from 1970 when Wet Germany played far more adventerous - maybe more akin to his Borussia Monchengladbach role - where Berti did not concentrate as much as 1974 in marking and defending he seemed pretty capable of maintaining a good level of high speed runs through out the course of a match with out gassing himself out of a match. 89-92 range I would at the moment think to be correct, but like mentioned I would want to look at him intently over a few 90 mins to see if my assmuption is correct. ;)
Phil
Valued Contributor
Posts: 835
Joined: 2009 Feb 11, 14:49
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby Phil » 2010 Mar 31, 17:39

I know he wasn't the best of dribblers but Tony Hibbert has got 76 in DA for gods sake :lol: , could he not be on a similar value ?
tiki-taka
Former Lurker
Posts: 1
Joined: 2011 Jul 15, 14:34

Re: Berti VOGTS| 1973/1974

Postby tiki-taka » 2011 Jul 15, 15:15

Brezza wrote:Although Berti could come forward was one of the best defensive Fullback's ever, superb man-to man marker and tackler. Like the text says he completly subdued Cruyff in the 74 final
his defence should be closer to that of Djalma Santos I beleive .

Also If anyone deserves 95+ for mentality it would be Vogts. He stuck to his job and closed down his marker furiously and everywhere around the pitch always fighting for every ball as it was his last. ;)


Vogs defence 96 response 97 :geek: :lol: :D
GoodOldClassical
New Contributor
Posts: 38
Joined: 2011 Oct 24, 14:54

Re: Berti VOGTS | 1968-1974

Postby GoodOldClassical » 2012 Jan 07, 06:43

Regarding stamina I'm not seeing full matches but his tactical loyalty (as displayed on the video) to be consistently performed requires a lot of stamina. I mean, running like a madmen all those yards just to stick to the opponent sure deserves a lot of cardio power.

Also, the dribbling parameter. It seems here Vogts might be underrated, he obviously relied on accelaration when going for the dribble but that doesn't seem valid enough to stop him from clinging to a more perfected 78 value I would say.
Sometimes you get submerged by emotion. I think it's very important to express it - which doesn't necessarily mean hitting someone.
Eric Cantona
L10Messi
Regular Poster
Posts: 266
Joined: 2012 Nov 18, 17:12
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Berti Vogts | 1968-1974

Postby L10Messi » 2013 May 18, 20:11

Resistance may be red, during the 1974 World Cup matches, persecuted incanzablemente everyone, even went ahead to press the midfield.

Return to “70's”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest