Frenkie de Jong


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Frenkie de Jong

Postby PES Stats Database » 2018 Jan 11, 17:46

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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby jurgens » 2018 Jan 11, 18:05

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Name: F. de Jong

Club: Ajax
Position: CMF*, AMF, DMF, CB, SWP
Nationality: Dutch _ned
Age: 20 (xx-yy-1998)

Foot: R
Side: N

Length: 180
Weight: 71

Attack: 71
Defence: 58
Balance: 76
Stamina: 79
Top Speed: 78
Acceleration: 82
Response: 78
Agility: 86
Dribble Accuracy: 87
Dribble Speed: 87
Short Pass Accuracy: 83
Short Pass Speed: 78
Long Pass Accuracy: 81
Long Pass Speed: 74
Shot Accuracy: 61
Shot Power: 73
Shot Technique: 63
Free Kick Accuracy: 58
Curling: 74
Header: 70
Jump: 72
Technique: 85
Aggression: 68
Mentality: 71
Keeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 81

Injury Tolerance: A
Condition/Fitness: 4
Weak Foot Accuracy: 5
Weak Foot Frequency: 5

S21 - Step On Skills
S05 - 1-touch Play
S06 - Outside curve
S16 - Roulette Skills
P04 - Darting Run
P05 - Mazing Run
P18 - Talisman


Just putting my first draft for him here in the thread aswell, because I've noticed, we'll have a set for a young player, but he'll get updated, and we'll lose the original set if we ever want it for a classic or reference, so it's here in the thread for that.


Frenkie is an incredible talent, extremely well rounded, versatile, and amazingly skilled with the ball at his feet. It's rare to find anyone with this sort of composure on the ball, let alone someone with such little exposure to first team football. But Frenkie is a natural on the ball, he plays as if he has all the time in the world, no matter how pressured he is, he has such confidence and composure on the ball and loves to bring players close to him, and then leave them for dead, with bursts forward, or slick ball control and turns. Hes quite similar to a young Kovacic, really adept at moving the ball from deep and driving it up the pitch. His passing and ability to dictate the play is also of a very high level, has no problems making any sort of pass or keeping the play going fluidly. Can pick out difficult passes here and there, though, for the moment, it's not that often.

Hes been deployed as a libero recently, although hes really a more offensive player, it's interesting to see how well he can play there and what he can add to the team being the first line of offence. I don't expect him to really play there much, so I'm not really looking to give him CB like def stats, which would just make him a monster defensively when he's fielded further up the pitch.

I really can't stress enough how talented this guy is, and how much composure and poise he has, it's very rare in such a young player. His potential is through the roof.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby jurgens » 2018 Jan 12, 01:31

thanks for the link (though I can't stand that sites articles :lol:) and adding him to the DB.

I'll add the cards and stars that I forgot don't get pasted over from the clipboard.

edit: apparently i can't add the run skills either
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby VUKDS » 2018 Jan 12, 02:19

Give him SM position and remove it after you assign him these abilities.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Jan 12, 03:08

You all said it already but he's an insane prospect really. I suppose the mods are gonna be conservative for now but I'm under the impression his ACC is a bit better than 82.
His body feints are very good too, looks like a core part of his dribbling.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby furymaker » 2018 Jan 14, 11:52

Yesterday I've bumped in a tweet comparing him to Cruyff, a long ass analysis of his skills, strengths, weakness, wasn't really that familiar with him, but dear god how talented he is.
One interesting stat he mentioned, Frenkie has 93% dribble success rate, has almost 4 dribbles per game, has 92% passing accuracy with 52 accurate passes per game (bit low cuz he was used a sub half of the games, that converts to 75 per 90mins, highest in Eredivisie), just a bit stats to back his obvious talent that can be seen from his 1st contact with the ball.

His use of open space and avoiding defenders does indeed remind of young Kovacic, or a younger version of Iniesta, also those quick sharp turns away from defenders are in the mold of Xavi, something so simple yet so hard to do on such a consistent level.

https://tinyurl.com/frenkiedejonganalysis

Here's the chain of tweets, gifs, video and a lot of stuff about his talent, obviously hype is through the roof but I'm convinced its well deserved.

Frenkie is 20 years old, is doing something you can barely ever see, can't wait to see him develop even further.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby FernandoA13 » 2018 Feb 18, 18:02

I have a smile on my face reading these comments. Because i couldn’t agree more. This kid is very special. He has so much confidence. Very good set Jurgens. I would like to suggest some little details. I believe his jumping is a bit better. Has out jumped quite a few (tall) strikers in the Eredivisie. His timing is quite good. And i know 87 for da is a good number. But imo this kid deserves 89 if not oranges. His da is just so good, reminds me of Kaka the way he dribbles with his foot posistion regarding the ball.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby vinnie » 2018 Feb 19, 00:47

i didn't know there was a set for de jong. i've been trying to make a set since i noticed him not too long ago.

the one thing i'm strongly noticing in this thread is the types of comparisons being made: De Jong's like a young kovacic, he's like kaka was...

this is all along the same ability i picked up on too when i was watching De Jong. i think working on the set without knowing there was already one meant i could form a perspective that didn't draw from anyone else, or a perspective that wasn't hesitant to break away from consensus.

and the feeling that i got as i watched de jong, is that he could be worth as much as 99 ds.

that's where the comparisons are coming from in my opinion. he's not that quick, but he accelerates so so well with the ball. and when he has the chance, he keeps pretty much full speed on the ball. he's been effective playing in a similar role to inter milan era kovacic because of that DS, he can cut through an open channel so well and so aggressively. but when i went through the kovacic thread a few days ago looking at old examples of inter era kovacic to compare against, i found kovacic's DS to be noticeably lower than De Jong's; kovacic is faster off the ball, but de jong is smoother and better at keeping just about full speed.

here's some notable examples from what i've watched:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvP3IwttuWA&t=3m23s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLlzPv6l_ok&t=7m37s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaOLIticbVo&t=3m40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZpLv-PA9R8&t=2m03s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXlkFwdPIw&t=1m03s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmXlkFwdPIw&t=3m49s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiQw9Q6ly5I&t=2m53s

and that's without including all of the small micro examples where he accelerates with the ball under such great control, because he can consistently measure each touch of his dribble as he increases his speed so well that he never kicks the ball too far, or too close that he trips over the ball, it's all so fluid and unforced.

i honestly don't think there's a reason to keep his DS below 97. my very first and immediate impression watching De jong was that he must be at the minimum 94 DS, and i had a strong hunch he was solidly into reds, and that was before even comparing to other players, and before seeing some of the best dribbling speed displays by De Jong such as some of the above examples.

on the other hand, though i considered a higher DA value, in the end i personally didn't think he's shown more than DA 84. i think he's elegant and agile without being nimble and quick turning, but he is most successful and dependent on his ability to accelerate so smoothly on the ball and dribble at top speed with flawless consistency.

he has some great dribbling displays in tight spaces but the best moments i saw were against weak teams, i.e the andorra u17. against well set up teams or decent eresdivisie teams (still very weak teams compared to the top european leagues) his dribbling dominance and habits change alot, and i see less daring to twist and maneuver. but de jong has an absolutely unhesitant and unnerring will to attack the smallest gap in a midfield and lead a counter attack from his own box to the opposition's box using dribbling speed no matter who he plays against.

maybe i underrate de jong's agility and da, but i think he should be rated around his dribbling speed first, and then when i look at how he dribbles outside of that, i'm not so impressed. the player i thought of who is comparable in DA alone is Bale around 2010-2012; though clearly more agile than that bale, they both were very successful in dribbling with speed, and very good but much more limited outside of that. De jong has a big advantage over Bale because of his much higher level of nimbleness though. i do think De Jong could develop and become good enough to be worth 87 DA or more, or maybe i just am underrating his DA, but for now i don't see a level higher than 84 as of now. the same goes for agility, i think it could be as much as 84, but i think it's better to keep it lower at 82.

the set i was quite close to satisfied with as a base is this below:

Attack: 76
Defence: 66
Balance: 77
Stamina: 86
Top Speed: 80
Acceleration: 87
Response: 81
Agility: 82
Dribble Accuracy: 84
Dribble Speed: 99
Short Pass Accuracy: 78
Short Pass Speed: 75
Long Pass Accuracy: 82
Long Pass Speed: 82
Shot Accuracy: 68
Shot Power: 78
Shot Technique: 68
Free Kick Accuracy: 65
Curling: 71
Header: 71
Jump: 77
Technique: 82
Aggression: 86
Mentality: 67
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 85

Condition/Fitness: 5
Weak Foot Accuracy: 6
Weak Foot Frequency: 6

dribling
possesion
passing
outside
sliding
covering

double touch
shoulder feint



because this was made using vs vids, i can't confirm tw, or aggresion. i can't say anything solidly about defence either, he's played as a centreback a few times, but outside of doing his job okay with some tackles and slides and good anticipation here and there, i didn't see something great. he moves a bit erratically and wildly too when going to pressure or tackle, belying his inexperience in that position perhaps?

oh and maybe i underrated short passing, but my first impression is that for the kind of player he is, it would be really valuable for that attribute to be at a great value, but i just see him as 'good', he has vision and is very intelligent at picking through passes, but isn't that precise yet in my opinion.


i don't like posting a set when someone else has already posted a set with explanations, but i think there are some key qualities that deserve a bit more recognition and higher ratings, so i checked with jurgens first to know if he minded whether i commented with my own interpretation of a De Jong set; he told me he didn't mind.

i was planning on watching some ajax matches and confirming these impressions i have thoroughly, because a suggestion like 99 ds needs justification. since there's already a thread and interest in de jong though, it would save time just to share these notes and know what everyone else thinks.

personally i think 99 ds is fair, and ds is what the set should be built around. any thoughts?
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby jurgens » 2018 Feb 19, 01:01

I don't know about 99 DS myself, but you know how cautious I am with young players, and probably even more so with DS, and when you consider that I gave him 87 DS, I think it says a lot. I do see what you're saying indeed, theres time I noted him running what appeared to be full speed, but I liked to be cautious and undershoot rather than over, and I'm happy with the 87, but it's great to see your views on his DS being this high, as I feel it's quite correct to give him a significant bump. I'd be quite adamant about his spa being quite a bit better than you rated it though, I feel hes really very good at it.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby FernandoA13 » 2018 Feb 19, 14:15

His da imo for certain should be close to orange, and i personally rate him orange. I have watched every match that he played in. Yesterday he literally passed like atleast 6 players with close control and good understanding of space. Imo his ds is very good, but i'm a bit suprised about the number 99 and the remark we should built the set around his ds.
Def agree with Jurgens that his short pass is better. All his passing is a bit better than the current set. And we should add: extra attacker. And i don't think he should have sliding.
For his AGG value there isn't a correct number. Because he makes crazy runs as a CB/SW sometimes when he sees double openings past the opposisition attackers and midfielders. But he does that less (ofcourse) when he plays as 6.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby furymaker » 2018 Feb 19, 22:15

I can agree with DS being his most important skill right now, but 99 is just too much, he may deserve it in future, but so far I wouldnt give him that much.
Its pretty obvious he is very capable at running full speed with the ball and very efficient at it, doesnt lose speed and give this impression of being faster with the ball than without it, but 99 puts him way up there with prime Messi, Maradona, Robben, etc.
I cant give such a value to him, not yet.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby Korinov » 2018 Jun 16, 09:28

Some notes and ideas from watching vs. vids.

I agree with the overall concept of vinnie's proposed changes although I disagree with some of the values he suggested.
In terms of decision-making and maturity of his game, he may deserve something close to green attack indeed.
I would leave TS in greens but agree Acc should go pretty high, to mid/high yellows.
Agree with a more modest DA+AGI combo (vinnie's values are perfect IMO).
Unsure regarding DS. There are moments in which his DS is effectively insane, breaking the scale almost. I'm however skeptical regarding what a degree of control he retains in those runs, it looks like he's mostly running like crazy in a straight line, with just minor changes of direction when forced by opponents but still in straight lines. He may just be experimenting and trying to see how fast he can actually go, in other situations he shows pretty good DS but not as crazy, yet keeping complete control over what he's doing. IMO he's around 90 right now, perhaps slightly higher.
I agree with the notion that his long passing is better than his short. Due to consistency issues the 82/82 vinnie proposed for LPA/LPS looks fine - he has moments in the vs. vids in which he looks like a solid mid yellows for both, but again we're talking about consistency here. In terms of short passing I also agree he probably needs a tone down but I believe SPA deserves an 80 value, SPS can go indeed to low greens.
Unsure regarding the Jump increase, I'd honestly leave it on whites.
Fairly impressed regarding his Tech, wouldn't put it under his DA in any case.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby furymaker » 2018 Nov 16, 21:01

his influence on a team, how they play, how they move without the ball, he made such a big influence on this Oranje side, tbh I didnt want them much earlier because they have been complete ass of a team, from his debut till today I watched every game and he's just a huge, huge factor.

Calm in possession, safe passes, not afraid to make runs from deep or even pull of direct riskier passes, also very capable in duels and tackling, just an unreal talent.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby pcrooce » 2018 Nov 18, 23:55

Image

Image

Image

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https://www.optasportspro.com/about/optapro-blog/posts/2018/blog-de-jong-on-song/mbuBlogsyPost
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby anOKguy » 2018 Dec 14, 21:36

https://youtu.be/bzI7SILrfUc?t=140 great goal
https://youtu.be/jXZcFInnFng?t=107 another
Also, guy is truly class and snaps his passes really well and dribbles like a real technician
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby anOKguy » 2019 Mar 21, 22:55

Couple notes from watching him even more:
I don’t find him a green level player for att. 73-74 is sufficienct.
I think his defense and response are both a few points better. He’s a pretty good tackler and responsive to loose balls on top of that. He can sit deeper and operate in the sw position. Which brings me to the next point, tw. I have him at 83 given just how insane his understanding of the game is that allows him to play this role. He knows when to drop and when when to push from that role and just circulates beautifully. This allows Blind and the SBs to be able to get forward without damning the whole team if they give up the ball.
Another point. His pass accuracy I have yet to see why it’s above 80 spa. Much like Vinnie noted last year, I find him a pretty simple passer in this regard and the 80 is on the upper end of what I would find reflective. As for his long passing, I would need another perspective to confirm, but doesn’t strike me as hitting balls above a high green level.
Finally, his heading and jump both strike me as lower and aggression higher. 3 or so points in each direction for those fits my views.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby Whoah10115 » 2019 Apr 10, 21:40

The 95 DS is so spot on. Hell, it could be higher. He looks faster with the ball.

I like him mucho.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby toaad » 2019 Apr 12, 04:45

What a hell of a player. In addition to all the obvious skills (intelligence, technique, speed and coolness) IMO his defensive perception is something really impressive too.

Oklahomastate010 wrote:Couple notes from watching him even more:
I don’t find him a green level player for att. 73-74 is sufficienct.
I think his defense and response are both a few points better. He’s a pretty good tackler and responsive to loose balls on top of that. He can sit deeper and operate in the sw position. Which brings me to the next point, tw. I have him at 83 given just how insane his understanding of the game is that allows him to play this role. He knows when to drop and when when to push from that role and just circulates beautifully. This allows Blind and the SBs to be able to get forward without damning the whole team if they give up the ball.
Another point. His pass accuracy I have yet to see why it’s above 80 spa. Much like Vinnie noted last year, I find him a pretty simple passer in this regard and the 80 is on the upper end of what I would find reflective. As for his long passing, I would need another perspective to confirm, but doesn’t strike me as hitting balls above a high green level.
Finally, his heading and jump both strike me as lower and aggression higher. 3 or so points in each direction for those fits my views.


with the exception about his passing game/skills, I very much agree with you.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby Viyut » 2019 Apr 12, 20:28

I have only watched a handful of matches of Frenkie so far, once against Feyenoord and against Juve. But he does not seem to be a high level LPA player just yet. There were several situations on the juve match, where he had the choice of playing a long pass to a free player on the wings yet chose to play short (despite it not being the best option due to Juve's press), when high LPA players such as Verratti would've played to the wings without a second thought. He's a SPA > LPA player and might not be yellow LPA yet just as Oklahomastate010 says.

That said, his playstyle is perfect for Barcelona, and he and Arthur + Busquets will make for a scary midfield next season, should be just like old Barca, though Arthur and Frenkie haven't reached their potential yet.
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Re: Frenkie de Jong

Postby sunsaegnim » 2019 Apr 17, 17:52

His Ball Winning should be higher, 70~71 imo

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