Selçuk Şahin, Gençlerbirliği SK


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Selçuk Şahin, Gençlerbirliği SK

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 11, 21:56


Last edited by A-SK on 2011 Feb 22, 00:43, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby general suvorov » 2009 Mar 22, 20:24

With arrive of Fabian Ernst we the Turkish users finally met with versatile midfielder whose att-def senses are very good. Yet again , I see no problem with the stats of Fabian Ernst (73 Att-72 Def) Selçuk Şahin's attack should be downgraded. Selçuk plays in very limited area in his side. And doesn't being involed into attacks except taking some long shots and headers that he managed to score goals out of them.

Even in his best time (his first season in Fenerbahce) his attacking sense wasn't that (73) good imo ( as I remember these days, people thought he gonna be like Pirlo or something). For that reason I think his attack should be on the same line with Mehmet Topal and Cisse. Which I think 68 would be the perfect number.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Mar 22, 20:39

No, no, and no!! Mehmet Topal and Cisse rarely ever score from set pieces nor do they position themselves all the brilliantly in the box, so why on earth should i downgrade Selcuk. Selcuk is one our key men from set pieces and is one of the only players scoring regularly from set pieces, but the figures you're giving me would suggest otherwise :? Have you not even noticed his aggression? With 68, he'll rarely ever make runs into box and will only pop into box from set pieces. He won't charge into box frequently anyways, so why should i downgrade his attack aswell. Ernst has only managed to score one goal so far but Selcuk has been scoring like a striker this season, so who has a better positional sense? How can you compare Ernst to Selcuk when Ernst has only spent a few week playing in the Turkish league, ridiculous!!
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby general suvorov » 2009 Mar 22, 21:03

A-SK wrote:No, no, and no!! Mehmet Topal and Cisse rarely ever score from set pieces nor do they position themselves all the brilliantly in the box, so why on earth should i downgrade Selcuk. Selcuk is one our key men from set pieces and is one of the only players scoring regularly from set pieces, but the figures you're giving me would suggest otherwise :? Have you not even noticed his aggression? With 68, he'll rarely ever make runs into box and will only pop into box from set pieces. He won't charge into box frequently anyways, so why should i downgrade his attack aswell. Ernst has only managed to score one goal so far but Selcuk has been scoring like a striker this season, so who has a better positional sense? How can you compare Ernst to Selcuk when Ernst has only spent a few week playing in the Turkish league, ridiculous!!


then give me a solid clue why he should have better attacking than Mehmet Topal (while their defences are same) and Cisse ( another real all-around player who spent a year in turkey) ? Besides I dont understand why you mention his goals this season. His attacking was 73 while wasn't scoring anything before. or was his attack 78? so that you downgraded it to 73 in no goal periods.

Mate, another example, Nuri Sahin, his attack is "74" now. According to your suggestions Nuri's attack should be 80. Ok I think 74 is a bit low number for him but you can't just say Nuri Sahin's and Selcuk's att sense are almost same.

You compare Maldonado with Makalele (not with Ayhan or Ernst) you say Ernst looks too all around we'll see if he's like that (yeah we saw he really is) then for Selcuk you're reaching to point that his attacking is as good as Ayhan or Nuri Sahin. I don't find it right. Let's see what other people are thinking.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Mar 22, 21:29

I don't know if you kept up with Nuri's updates but his attack was raised to 74 after only scoring 6 goals in one season in the Dutch league. I don't rate the Duth higher than the Turkish league so i can safely compare players between the two leagues. Selcuk has managed to score more goals than Mehmet and Cisse in the past few seasons so how can you compare Selcuk to players that rarely score?! The Duth mods tend to 74 to players who've demonstrated good positioning, so what the problem with me giving Selcuk 73?! Selcuk's been struggling with injuries for the past few seasons that's why he hasn't been scoring, not because he can't!! Nuri had a good run of form during his one season loan in the Duth league, that's why his attack was raised to 74, but I don't understand why Ayhan has 74, he rarely scores inside the box :?

Selcuk number of goals:
2008-09: 4
2007-08: 3
2006-07: 1
2005-06: 1
2004-05: 1
2003-04: 2

Based on the past 2 seasons, I think he warrants a figure in the low 70s. He struggled with back problems the seasons before so he never really had a run of games. I only posted Selcuks stats just over a year ago, so what are you on about?
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby Zeta » 2009 Mar 22, 21:58

Ä°brahim Toraman's number of goals:
2008-09: 0
2007-08: 4
2006-07: 1
2005-06: 4
2004-05: 1
2003-04: 2
2002-03: 7

He is a better scorer than Selçuk (according to stats), and only his 02/03 stats includes his performances from midfield. Scoring from set pieces have nothing to do with offence, i think. If Selçuk could join normal attacks, finding positions which leave him one-on-one with the keeper (Ernst did that on his third match, Ayhan also does that, most recent example is Hamburg game), going down to flanks to receive long balls to find a chance to cross (I saw Ernst and Ayhan doing that only 2 or 3 weeks ago), i would agree with his offence rating.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Mar 23, 03:39

@General Suvorov
Ilhan doesn't score because he lacks any sort of composure in front of goal, not because he has poor positioning. Ilhan's positioning should be higher than his shooting and response for the simple reason that he can't pounce on loose balls quick enough nor can he finish when he does manage to pounce on loose balls.

@Zeta
You're talking about Aggression, not positioning. Don't get the 2 mixed up ;)

I'm getting sick and tired of replying to all these comments, you lot are constantly chucking all sorts of topics in my directions and i really can't handle this. Zeta is clearly talking about aggression while suvorov thinks scoring is all about attack. You could a player attack: 99 and SA: 1 but the higher attack wouldn't mean he'd score a whole lot. You could give a player ATT: 1 and AGG: 99 and he would play really far up the pitch making constant runs but his positioning inside the box would be useless.

You guys are really tiring and the worse part is.....youre relentless!! I'm off to bed, good night!!
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Jun 24, 23:01

First post updated.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby general suvorov » 2009 Jun 24, 23:12

86 balance ?

why 86 balance?. I think he's not stronger than Mehmet Topal or Sivok. I suggested 86 balance for Hakan Balta and I think there's no solid clue to prove that he's stronger than Hakan Balta or even par with it. 86 balance would make him par with Holosko or Nobre which he's not. I think balance should be 84 or 83. 86 would make him the strongest dm in TSL and he's not. Think of Fabian Ernst who has 83 balance, so if Selçuk has 86 balance what would Ernst deserve? 85? No way!
Selçuk with 86 balance seems to me unreal.

here what happened when he met by Ernst:

http://img206.imageshack.us/i/noluyolan.jpg/
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Jun 25, 00:04

:shock: That picture proves nothing! Ersnt is lying on Selcuk's back like a big fag :lol: Deniz, do you ever stop to even test the stats? I'm guessing not. I've tested the first post and it plays like the real thing. Selcuk is stronger than Edu but not as much as Lugano. Lugano physically dominates over the majority of attackers whilst Selcuk keeps the midfielders under control. If you ever stop to watch him, he literally barges people off the ball. Selcuk weighs as much as Nobre and Holosko so what make sthem any stronger? Nothing. You're just looking for a bone to pick! Try the stats and then come back to me. Selcuk is stronger than the majority of players in fenerbahce so i'm not gonna drop it because you posted some stupid irrelevant picture. 86 makes him sit accordingly on every balance ladder on the database and don't think i havent looked. Strength is the only asset he has, why should i downgrade to a value like 83/84 when i know that'll make him flimsy? Atleast explain me that much. I'm happy to raise Hakan's balance, but atleast explain yourself.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby general suvorov » 2009 Jun 25, 00:31

A-SK wrote::shock: That picture proves nothing! Ersnt is lying on Selcuk's back like a big fag :lol: Deniz, do you ever stop to even test the stats? I'm guessing not. I've tested the first post and it plays like the real thing. Selcuk is stronger than Edu but not as much as Lugano. Lugano physically dominates over the majority of attackers whilst Selcuk keeps the midfielders under control. If you ever stop to watch him, he literally barges people off the ball. Selcuk weighs as much as Nobre and Holosko so what make sthem any stronger? Nothing. You're just looking for a bone to pick! Try the stats and then come back to me. Selcuk is stronger than the majority of players in fenerbahce so i'm not gonna drop it because you posted some stupid irrelevant picture. 86 makes him sit accordingly on every balance ladder on the database and don't think i havent looked. Strength is the only asset he has, why should i downgrade to a value like 83/84 when i know that'll make him flimsy? Atleast explain me that much. I'm happy to raise Hakan's balance, but atleast explain yourself.


actually I tested him with 84 balance and even that would be much too. I already check the ladders. That's usually what I do especially about setting players balance and mentality. The pick was a little joke. Selçuk is not as strong as Lugano. I think Selçuk's rough style of play biased you.

Think of Emre Güngör he's 182 and 81 kgs. Selçuk is 187 and 81 kgs. In this aspect Emre Güngör should be stronger than him as he's shorter than Selçuk but he has the same weight. If you wanna stick him to 86 balance that would change a lot in turkish league. Omer Erdoğan or Egemen Korkmaz are even has better physics than Selçuk but they have 86 balance.

Just give me a solid example is there anybody who he outmuscled that has 83+ balance? No. He's affective against weak players. Lugano out muscled Mehmet Yılmaz. Ibrahim Toraman outmuscled Leo Iglesias but now he's par with Selçuk Şahin. Mehmet Topal playeed as CB and managed to stand against Marcio Nobre. Hakan Balta stood against Mehmet Yıldız. These are my clues about rating his balance. Besides his attack is still 70+ actually there's no solid clues except his goals from set pieces. Mehmet Topal makes forward runs as he does. But he's at 67.

I think a lot before making a comment but actually I'm really tired of repeating the same stuff especially when it comes to balance issues of Fenerbahçe players. I've been busting my ass to lower Selçuk's attack since the old site days. I'd not object 86 balance for Önder Turaci as he's really strong for his size. But I really don't understand what makes you feel like he's par with Lugano. Now he's even stronger than Bilica.

I think you're comparing him with wrong players. Selçuk is par with Mehmet Topal, Tomas Sivok and neither his defence nor his attack is better than him as Topal proved his skills against strong players with high tempo football in EU2008 and in other platforms. Considering Selçuk stronger than Mehmet Topal or Bekir Irtegun would cause the same problems as you considered Gökhan Emreciksin with 77 attack and Mehmet Eren Boyraz with 78 attack. He's strong player but not that strong. So this is my reasoning. I care much about what I suggest and what I claim. and you know how I'm harsh to players of the team I support but that kind of rating is just makes the things more difficult for me.

So I hope you gonna understand my point.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby PMC » 2009 Jun 25, 00:41

you shouldn't give a player a high attack value because of his positioning in setpieces... the attack value will also have an influence on him during the game as he will position himself more cleverly generally...

me and rb7 already conspired over giving a defensive minded player with a good positioning inside the box the * star for positioning :geek:
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Jun 25, 00:46

Fair enough. I'm gonna go ahead and drop it something like 85 as i still believe Selcuk can handle the majority of midfielders. It'll make him weak against strong players and he will buckle under pressure from sronger players. Are we ok with that? I still think he's stronger than Edu. Edu seems fall to the ground very easily whenever he tries to barge strong players off the ball. I don't see Edu as stronger than Selcuk. As for Mehmet Topal, I've already explained myself. Mehmet advances forward with the intention to shoot. He doesn't position himself for headers and etc very well. Selcuk is very hard to mark from set pieces and easily loses the attention of attacking minded midfielders and fullbacks. I'll be happy to drop it 70 but that about as far as i'd go. Selcuk has a better positional sense than the majority of players in our squad. He's smart. He doesn't get mixed with the large crowed of people from set pieces but tends to hover just outside the crowd of markers and attackers. He definitely has a better positonal sense than Mehmet Topal. I really don't understand why you constantly compare every other stats with your own GS stats. I hardly think the first post is overrated, but as i said, youre just looking for a bone to pick. Selcuk is stronger than Edu (84) and Denix (83), but if you think Onder (possibly 86) deserves that value, then i'm gonna go ahead and place him between Onder and Edu. You ok with that?

@PMC
Selcuk essentially started off as a CM so i'm fairly comfortable with the given value.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby PMC » 2009 Jun 25, 00:52

well you tried to prove your point by stating that he's got a great positioning in setpieces and attack means more than that imo.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Jun 25, 00:54

@PMC
What are you saying? Are you ok with the current value?
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Jun 29, 16:30

updated
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Aug 28, 00:34

selcuk really impressed me tonight. i think Christian should look to improve otherwise he will go down the pecking order. Daum doesn't consider Deniz 1st or 2nd choice DM, but more like a versatile player. He wont replace Selcuk or Christian but Christian is really not looking like a good signing. 5 million euros is alot money for the current Christian. his performance in the brazlian league was truly awesome so im gonna hald off on any comments for now.
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby remake » 2009 Aug 31, 18:13

His D is not 74. Ceyhun Gulselam's D 71 (he successfully plays CB too), Ibrahim Dagasan's D is 73 (he's the only reason why Sivas does not concede 5 goals every match this season), Fink's D is 71. Do you really think he's better than these players as far as defensive positioning goes? If you don't want to lower his D because of his good set pieces ability then you might want to consider giving him a positioning star.

Also his attack is overrated. The truth is Selcuk is a terrible player as far as fundamental football knowledge goes. As far as I know he started football at a very late age and that might be the reason. Whatever it is... I'd give him:

A: 67
D: 69
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Aug 31, 18:46

remake, are you trying to take the piss?! Selcuk was one of the best DM last season!! Selcuk is a very capable defender and the only midifielder in fenebahce that can actually defend to a certain extent. he provides more cover than anyone else, he's better at regaining possession better than anyone else and he can position himself in defence better than anyone else. it often looks like we're playing with 3 central defenders when he's in the starting 11. he was also also great going forward last season. his positional sense on both ends of the pitch was better than just about every other defensive midfielder we had!! i've officially had enough of everyone trying to downgrade selcuk! apart from him, fenerbahce have no other solid defensive midfielders! a downgrade to the figures you're suggesting would leave the centre easier than butter to pass through! i'm locking this thread until you all realise how valuable he is for the club! Ceyhun plays like an attackin minded CM, Ibrahim contribution doesn't seem to be making a difference to sivasspor's poor form this year and Fink is a bloody CM!!
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Re: Selçuk Şahin

Postby A-SK » 2009 Nov 20, 06:24

I've decided to tweak his attack/defence value after seeing the number of disaprovals from some of our Turkish. Nevertheless, Selcuk is a player highly comparable to someone like Milos Pavlovic. He has been the only player the club could depend on since Aurelio's departure. At the moment, I still don't consider Deniz or Christian a better defender. Both play more like central midfielder rather than a defensive midfielder. I don't consider players like Mikel or Huddlestone any better at defending than Selcuk. He literally plays in between the 2 central defenders like a libero. His defensive positioning is amongst the best in the team and he's even been played as CB in a few friendly games in the past. Seeing as Sergiu Costin is considered an "okay" defender, I doubt Paul will object to the given value. Attack could probably dropped, but *Positioning is a must. He's developed into a very valuable player for set pieces. I don't think he's as attack minded as Bougherra though so a value like 66 is far more fitting. How does everyone feel about that?

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