Roberto Baggio | 1993-1994 | 2000-2004


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Roberto Baggio | 1993-1994 | 2000-2004

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 11, 20:01

1993-1994

Nickname: "Il Divin Codino" ("The Divine Ponytail")

Club: Juventus



Growth type: Early/Lasting


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *



2000-2004

Nickname: "Il Divin Codino" ("The Divine Ponytail")

Club: Brescia



Growth type: Early/Lasting


VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show
Roberto Baggio Pt. 1
Roberto Baggio Pt. 2
Roberto Baggio Pt. 3
All Roberto Baggio Goals 1
All Roberto Baggio Goals 2





Explanation about stats can be found here: post162481.html#p162481

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Apr 19, 07:54, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby Brezza » 2008 Dec 11, 20:04

Proboss wrote:Remember his great goal in Italia 90: he had some good accelaration but not that speed. Actually he was not a pacer, he managed to pass trough opposition by good body moves combining with accelaration and a suberb ball technique control.

Also he could put the ball on the net wherever he wanted, tough it was based exclusively on technique and not on power.

So, in my opinioN:

Accelaration= 89
Speed= 84

Sh Technique= 97
Sh Accuracy= 96
Sh Power= 84

Technique= 98


p1rha wrote:only thing i don't agree is ST and technique, it's fine as it is, everything else would be OK


Uzair wrote:SA does not need to be a red figure
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby Oriello » 2008 Dec 11, 21:25

GoonerLover66 I think if you re-post your own stats you do not have to credit yourself at the beginning again :P.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby Rfuna » 2009 Jul 16, 12:14

jesus was he this quick, that pacey, have that powerful a shot??
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby yourigo » 2009 Jul 16, 12:21

yeah it's kind of hard to believe he sits at the same level as C. Ronaldo in terms of speed, i'd say Cristiano is at least 2 points clear in this department
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jul 16, 13:18

Oriello wrote:GoonerLover66 I think if you re-post your own stats you do not have to credit yourself at the beginning again :P.


They speak of them self's in a third person.. ;) :D


yourigo wrote:yeah it's kind of hard to believe he sits at the same level as C. Ronaldo in terms of speed, i'd say Cristiano is at least 2 points clear in this department


Not completely accurate there, unless you meant only for TS.

Roberto Baggio:

Top Speed: 90
Acceleration: 89
Dribble Speed: 88

Cristiano Ronaldo

Top Speed: 90
Acceleration: 96
Dribble Speed: 96

Still, TS might be overrated though.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 16, 14:19

Top speed 90?! He was never exceptionaly fast, he was fast like say ... Del Piero, maybe more but not much. Better FK taker than Maradona? Don't think so ...

I still remember him as being one of the worlds best players (a bit old though). Though i was just a kid, 12 maybe, i clearly remember the moment when he misses the penalty against brazil. No one could expect that... a WC final, a penalty specialist, and he misses the goal :lol: He was a real star like Messi or Ronaldo are today. His stats are not what they should be imo.

Attack: 92

Stamina: 86>81 - he wasn't a player who ran a lot, 86 is a good value for a striker like Robbie Keane or something, but not Baggio. And Baggio qualities as an athlete never matched his technical abilities.

Top Speed: 90>82
Acceleration: 89>85 - he could dribble fast, but he would hardly win a sprint against a moderatly fast defender. Being a light guy he had a decent accelaration, but the lack of strenght in his legs meant little explosion.

Response: 83<87 - actually he had good response, and he could poach some goals, afterall he was placed as a striker/SS because of his keen eye for goal and shooting abilities, otherwise he would have probably been an AMF.

Short Pass Accuracy: 92
Short Pass Speed: 80
Long Pass Accuracy: 88
Long Pass Speed: 78 - RB passes were pinpoint accurate. He didn't use many deep passes, ence the low pass speed, but his short passes could penetrate the tiniest hole in the defense line, and the combinations and assists to his teamates were perfect. His last pass, near or inside the area, was simply perfect. He was the true "put it were u want to" kind of player, he just didn't had much power in his legs.

Shot Accuracy: 93<95 - if sheva has 95 he as to be at least at the same level, he was probably the most accurate player ever, (i don't mean the most efective, just accurate) in the sense that he always looked for the perfectly placed ball in the far corner (bottom or top), with little power but perfect placement.

Shot Power: 85>78 - same as above, plus, the efect it has on FKs. He was efective on FKs from a short range, i don't think he took them from more than 25 metres. The only shots that had some power were the volleys, but those always get enough power even with shity players.

Free Kick Accuracy: 97>94 - awesome curl, very precise, but 97, just 2 points away from Platini? not shure about this one but 97 seems to much to me... Actually, he might have been more dangerous from a close range than Del Piero, ence the crazy swerve, but Del Piero is a better FK taker imo, and the actual Del Piero is rated at 94.

Team Work: 89>84 - the man had great vision, but u already have the *playmaking star and serious passing abilities, so there's no need for such a high figure as there are players with equally good vision rated way bellow, like Del Piero rated at 83.

Weak Foot Accuracy: 7>6 -he could use both feet, but he wasn't confortable with the left like Ronaldo or Nedved.

*outside: an example at @ 3:30 in the video below .
Last edited by p1rha on 2009 Oct 19, 22:10, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby Rfuna » 2009 Jul 16, 20:29

some of your suggestion are good p1rha but I think 2/3 pts off where I would put them. speed stats for example, I would switch TS and ACC values, he had excellent pace IMO which is why he could go on long dribbling runs and really pose problems on the counter attack. check this video of 92/93 season for off the ball speed @ 5.27, 5.46, 6.00, 7.06.



IMO it looks like ACC @ 83 and TS @ 85/86. Regarding your other stats and based ont he above video:

Attack @ 90 - I rate him only 2 pts above the 07/08 goal scoring Del Piero
Stamina @ 81 - Not sure but 86 seems a bit much
Response @ 86/87 - good point about his poaching skills
Agility @ 83 - His movement is not very smooth, continuous or too fast. he's very reliant on his dribbling to beat his man
SPS @ 80 - could be 1/2 pts lower but would have to watch him a full 90 minutes regulalry to ascertain a number
LPA @ 88 - Agree
LPS @ 78 - Agree
SA @ 89 - he already has 1v1 scoring* and many of his goals are from the 5 yard - 9 yards. Plus I don't like this 'high-valuing' of classic players
SP @ 78 - agree completely
Header @ 77 - doesn't seem impressive, will head on target if unmarked
Jump @ 76 - unsure but Baggio isn't known for his jumping ability, or headers for the matter.
FKA @ 93 - again agree
TW @ 84 - agree
WFA @ 6 - you're right here once more

add Passing*

Goonerlover wrote:Baggio has scored 86 percent of his penalties in Serie A and International football, scoring 106 out of 122 penalties, more than any other player in Italian football history
its funny that he's the most reliable Italian Pk taker yet he missed what is perhaps the most important penalty of his entire career :D
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 16, 21:08

IMO it looks like ACC @ 83 and TS @ 85/86.


I think he should have higher ACC than TS.

Agility @ 83 - His movement is not very smooth, continuous or too fast. he's very reliant on his dribbling to beat his man


He was smooth indeed, feather touch (and feather weight, maybe he should even see a decrease in BB... ) What he wasn't was a guy of quick movements and simulations, he prefered perfect control. But he was good in that part of agility that allows u to pass through defenders like jelly... and the acrobatic kicks... i would have to try him...

SA @ 89 - he already has 1v1 scoring* and many of his goals are from the 5 yard - 9 yards. Plus I don't like this 'high-valuing' of classic players


1-1 or not he was probably the most precise guy i've seen, it's not about being a classic or not believe me, i'm always trying to bring down classic players :twisted: but this guy had such a placement, kind of Berkamp's.

SP @ 78 - agree completely


It could be even lower ...

Jump @ 76 - unsure but Baggio isn't known for his jumping ability, or headers for the matter.


again he had weak legs, he was no grasshoper really. agree. about heading i'm not shure, i mean, he could probably head a more than decent ball, i remember him doing a nice diving header in a light blue shirt (inter?). technically he was good at everything, but i don't think he would put his head in a powerfull cross or score when marked, so i'm just not shure about a number to emulate that.

add Passing*


*Passing could replace *playmaker.


And why *middle-shooting? With this stats he's a master at scoring with L2 button! U can use it to score from say 25 metres or more, like i do with Del Piero :P god, love those goals :D . I would still like to try it's effect with low SP and high SA, but i don't think he deserves it, he never scored a screamer.

About *penaltys, he scored 76 penatys in 91 tries, an 83% eficiency (is that good or bad?). Anyway, everyone knows it was beautifull to see him take them.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby fakeplayer » 2009 Aug 06, 22:00

he never was that fast, speed needs go to mid yellow
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Dan_Trequartista » 2009 Oct 19, 21:53

I agree his top speed and acceleration are overrated. Mid to high 80's would be good.

TS: 86
ACC: 87

Possibly raise Technique to 97. He was almost flawless in this department.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Uzair » 2009 Dec 13, 23:43

i think he could have an update based on p1rha's suggestions - although i'm not sure about bringing SA up to 95 :? could definately get rid of *middleshooting. i wouldn't change ATT and about the speed stats - 84 for TS and 86 for Acceleration.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Uzair » 2009 Dec 14, 19:54

sorry for double post here but DA could be 1 point higher as well. his ball control when moving was near flawless. better than ibra and robinho of nowadays and definately on par with messi...well that's my opinion anyway.

and i also think balance is a bit harsh at 76. that makes him pretty weak, and considering his size, he could ride some of the challenges pretty well. i mean i've seen videos of him where he's being hacked at and having his shirt pulled viciously yet he's still standing. he could certainly hold his own.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Uzair » 2009 Dec 23, 20:39

i dunno about you guys but i think Roberto could do with an update. yep...he sure could

or at least some more discussions (in other words 'agreements' or dis-agreements'.....whatever suits you people)
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Classical » 2009 Dec 24, 11:49

I will be here when agreeing/disagreeing stats.

I've seen all matches from USA94 - ok he was playing hellish moves there which can led to some overrate but...it was he who playing it!

Also I remember quite well AC Milan team from 95 (after the dutch era) with Savicevic, Desailly, Boban, Futre (injured) and Weah. With the young Patrick Vieira and Paolo Di Canio. And with Baggio.
I am just sad that I really don't know him from his days at Fiorentina and Juve.

So please bring the updates to discussion :D
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Dec 24, 14:38

The problem is, although I saw him I can't say he was this good and to be honest I don't believe he was this good. He has the same FKA as S. Mihajlovic. :\ And I wouldn't say he was any more accurate from freekick shots than Rivaldo. (Though obviously better at freekick crosses + corners. He used to go for goal from the corner flag didn't he?) I don't think his TS was worthy of a 90 although he obviously had fantastic speed on the ball and would glide past people.

Edit -

See? He's not amazingly fast in terms of natural sprinting speed but he's so comfy on the ball, it reminds me a bit of Figo. There's no natural blessing of extreme speed, but the DA + DS is so good that there doesn't need to be.

I would remove MS* as Baggio's shots got fantastic curl and also add 1 touch pass* as his volleys were out of this world. Pure ST value -does- look slightly too high, though. I'll have to come back about that, though.
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993/1994

Postby SportingGijón » 2010 Jan 06, 19:34

Rfuna wrote:some of your suggestion are good p1rha but I think 2/3 pts off where I would put them. speed stats for example, I would switch TS and ACC values, he had excellent pace IMO which is why he could go on long dribbling runs and really pose problems on the counter attack. check this video of 92/93 season for off the ball speed @ 5.27, 5.46, 6.00, 7.06.



IMO it looks like ACC @ 83 and TS @ 85/86. Regarding your other stats and based ont he above video:

Attack @ 90 - I rate him only 2 pts above the 07/08 goal scoring Del Piero
Stamina @ 81 - Not sure but 86 seems a bit much
Response @ 86/87 - good point about his poaching skills
Agility @ 83 - His movement is not very smooth, continuous or too fast. he's very reliant on his dribbling to beat his man
SPS @ 80 - could be 1/2 pts lower but would have to watch him a full 90 minutes regulalry to ascertain a number
LPA @ 88 - Agree
LPS @ 78 - Agree
SA @ 89 - he already has 1v1 scoring* and many of his goals are from the 5 yard - 9 yards. Plus I don't like this 'high-valuing' of classic players
SP @ 78 - agree completely
Header @ 77 - doesn't seem impressive, will head on target if unmarked
Jump @ 76 - unsure but Baggio isn't known for his jumping ability, or headers for the matter.
FKA @ 93 - again agree
TW @ 84 - agree
WFA @ 6 - you're right here once more

add Passing*

Goonerlover wrote:Baggio has scored 86 percent of his penalties in Serie A and International football, scoring 106 out of 122 penalties, more than any other player in Italian football history
its funny that he's the most reliable Italian Pk taker yet he missed what is perhaps the most important penalty of his entire career :D



Those stats look great but...Isn't FKA a bit underrated?
10th will be on Santiago Bernabéu...
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 06, 23:10

93 FKA puts him with Rivaldo and they were about equal here. Thus I agree to all suggestions and what I also suggested, I'll come back with speed values.

actually, you under rated his long passing acc and stamina rfuna & p1rah, 83 for stamina definitely, based on modern ladders. And I don't think LPA was any less accurate than Carrick or Scholes when he actually used it.



I know it's another YT vid but at least it gives you a tiny taste of his vision and accuracy.
"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby SportingGijón » 2010 Jan 06, 23:39

Hmm I'm still not sure about the FKA value...
10th will be on Santiago Bernabéu...
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Re: Roberto BAGGIO | 1993-1994

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 07, 01:09

I don't think being on a par with Riquelme and Rivaldo is something you can disagree on. I mean for pure accuracy and placement on them. It fits him fine enough for me.
"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."

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