Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

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Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Oriello » 2011 Sep 06, 22:21

Based on the set by Chri$ and Heui

Club: Bayer 04 Leverkusen



Gowth Type: Standard/Lasting

INFO:

A left-sided midfielder and one of the finest Polish players of his generation. Krzynówek made his Poland debut in November of 1998 against Slovakia, and cemented his place in the squad, helping them to the 2002 World Cup. At the finals he was praised for his play, despite a poor performance by Poland, and was named man of the match in the 3-1 win against the United States, Poland's sole victory in Korea/Japan. His booming shot and effective raids from the left flank were boons for Poland in past years - who had a meager assortment of talented players - and Krzynówek was critical to Poland's qualifications to the 2006 World Cup and EURO 2008. His skill set was not world class but due to his professionalism and heart on the pitch he was a class above many others, leading to a total of 96 caps (15 goals) for country, only behind the likes of Lato and Deyna...and now Żewłakow :roll: :lol:.

At club level he only came to prominence after moving to Germany, initially with 1. FC Nürnberg, helping to promote the club to the Bundesliga in 2002, but as a result of a cruciate ligament injury he missed the majority of the following season and the club was relegated. His excellent displays in the 2nd Bundesliga (Nürnberg again won promotion) solidified a move to Bayer Leverkusen, and he immediately proved to be one of the clubs best players. Unfortunately another injury during the spring of 2006 cost Krzynówek a regular starting spot. Moving to VfL Wolfsburg Krzynówek's career tailed off after another decent initial season, minor injuries demoted him from a regular place - he retired from football after a single season with Hannover 96 in 2009-10.

VIDEO:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 066356169#

SOURCES:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacek_Krzyn%C3%B3wek

http://polishsoccer.net/krzynowek_jacek.htm

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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Oriello » 2011 Sep 06, 22:44

I got this set for Mark Wahlber..er... I mean Jacek off one of my old OF's - pretty sure it is by Chri$/Heui - I do not think I made any drastic changes from what they had on here a few years back, but I did change the Injury Tolerance from B to C and Conditioning from 6 to 7 just now after reading up on him, on account of his being sidelined for stints at a time, but also for Nurnberg and Levekusen when he was fit he played 40+ games and in 2004-05 nearly 50 matches. I also added SB to his positions, he only was played there for Poland as far as I recall - due to a shortage of fullbacks - but he did play on a few occasions (poorly), so I am not entirely sure he should have it.

Any comments on him welcome.


I do not know how to embed the google video into the page, so just follow the link.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby tomaster » 2011 Sep 07, 10:24

DEF and MEN so low?
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 09, 12:05

I remember him much more explosive and a bit better dribbler. Also I'd lower his sa(74/75) and increase sp to 94 and st to 79 to reflect his way of shooting better.
And no, he shouldn't have sb. Give me a single example when he played on that position in 2004/05 season, please.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby tomaster » 2011 Sep 09, 13:37

Don't know if he was a better dribbler really but with the ball he was fast, maybe DS a tad higher? He was a box to box midfielder who never stand, always run there and back, higher MEN is a must.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 09, 14:03

What exact numbers for ment and def do you suggest? I agree with increase but not sure how many points should be given.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Oriello » 2011 Sep 09, 21:54

tomaster wrote:DEF and MEN so low?

Like I mentioned its basically the set Chri$ made and Heui contributed to a few years back, they rated him to Bundesliga scales.

Fantasista wrote:And no, he shouldn't have sb. Give me a single example when he played on that position in 2004/05 season, please.
I dont think he did play SB during that season or at all at any club ever, but the set is meant more for his good period for Poland (2002-2008ish) than authenticity with Leverkusen - thats why included the position as an option so he can be played there. It can be removed I have no qualms with it, as even when he did play he was not terribly competent - I think it was against San Marino when he looked his best at leftback. :mrgreen:

I seen him play and know of him in general, but not with any great authority, I'll defer to you guys on any suggestions - just make sure to reason them out, see if they make sense in the scale of the Bundesliga, maybe against Blaszczykowski in terms of DEF 54 and MEN 81 - was Jacek as energitic and better by much than Kuba at defending on the wing?
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 11, 12:09

If we're talking about 04/05 Krzynówek he played only as LM(sometimes on right wing in NT but he clearly felt more comfartable on left). 2002-2008 Era makes no sense because he was changing a lot through that period and don't forget that in euro qualifications he played as amf a few times. So delete SB, please.

In comparison to Kuba he was better in pure defence(positioning, tackling etc) but Kuba is faster, more agile and react a bit quicker so their overall effectiveness in defence were on similar level but I find Jacek slightly better(also because he was stronger). So I'd rate him 2, 3 points above Błaszczykowski in def but maybe he could be rated higher, exact number should be discussed, I'm waiting for other opinions. One conclusion's obvious-he need a raise.

And mentality should be 80-81. He wasn't as good as Kuba in this aspect. Personally I rate Błaszczykowski on 83-84.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby buszmen » 2011 Sep 11, 13:37

Left SB in NT was Tomasz Rząsa...
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Sep 13, 21:16

No other opinions? Does it mean everybody agree with tomaster's and my suggestions? ;)
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby tomaster » 2011 Sep 20, 08:02

Comparing him to Kuba, he was much better player, on his good day he was nearly unstoppable in both Leverkusen and National, world top class, if not the injuries T_T. Someone suggested SP 94 before, I agree with that, he could blast the ball.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Oct 10, 21:12

Why the discussion stopped about 20 days ago or so? Everyone decided to leave it as it is?
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby jurgens » 2011 Oct 10, 21:48

I've been waiting for Oriello to respond. I'm sorry but it's impossible for mods to have knowledge on every player in the database and if we don't have knowledge on the said players, then we must consider the opinions of long time respected contributors to the classic forum who do know the player. Otherwise we'd be making updates left right and center, and compromising a sets accuracy. We'd rather leave a set as it is... semi accurate, than create a possible (big/little) inaccuracy, until we get more opinions from experienced members who we can trusts opinion without question. I'm sorry but it's just the way it works.. I didn't get it when I first started posting regualrly on PSD I'd make good posts on classic players (maybe some lesser known players) and I'd get ignored. But it's only logical... I mean can the mod be expected to have the memory of this player from 20 years ago fresh in his head? No... So is it right for him to just update to this users suggested values? No.

The classic section works slow, as what we really need to get updates.. are opinions from long time contributors to the forum.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Oct 10, 22:07

I have nothing against being conservative about the updates. Mods should be absolutely(well at least almost ;)) sure about the updates. I just don't understand why starting a discussion and then leaving it alone. It happened to me lots of times in classic section. It's a shame especially when the posts given seemed I was talking with guys with knowledge. An then, suddenly... no single post for weeks. And what then? Discussion with myself? Always waiting for mods while they already have lots of work(and as you said they can't know everything). They should have clear situation, take a look at the thread, what the suggestions and explanations are and if they are reasonable update, if they have any doubts they can ask once again "why this, why that...?" or do anything else to help creating as accurate set as it could be.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Dec 10, 11:25

BUMP

Fantasista wrote:remember him much more explosive and a bit better dribbler. Also I'd lower his sa(74/75) and increase sp to 94 and st to 79 to reflect his way of shooting better.
And no, he shouldn't have sb. Give me a single example when he played on that position in 2004/05 season, please.


tomaster wrote:Don't know if he was a better dribbler really but with the ball he was fast, maybe DS a tad higher? He was a box to box midfielder who never stand, always run there and back, higher MEN is a must


Fantasista wrote:If we're talking about 04/05 Krzynówek he played only as LM(sometimes on right wing in NT but he clearly felt more comfartable on left). 2002-2008 Era makes no sense because he was changing a lot through that period and don't forget that in euro qualifications he played as amf a few times. So delete SB, please.

In comparison to Kuba he was better in pure defence(positioning, tackling etc) but Kuba is faster, more agile and react a bit quicker so their overall effectiveness in defence were on similar level but I find Jacek slightly better(also because he was stronger). So I'd rate him 2, 3 points above Błaszczykowski in def but maybe he could be rated higher, exact number should be discussed, I'm waiting for other opinions. One conclusion's obvious-he need a raise.

And mentality should be 80-81. He wasn't as good as Kuba in this aspect. Personally I rate Błaszczykowski on 83-84.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Oriello » 2011 Dec 14, 18:22

jurgens wrote:I've been waiting for Oriello to respond.

Thats always going to be an excercise in patience nowadays ;) , better to move on without me for the sake of everyone.

Fantasista wrote:And mentality should be 80-81. He wasn't as good as Kuba in this aspect. Personally I rate Błaszczykowski on 83-84.

So MEN 80 for Kryznowek? As Kuba currently still is at an 81 - and you rate him better in this regard, it will maintain a laddered effect.



With the earlier suggestions to shooting, I can agree with SA 74 and ST 79, as Hitzlsperger is at SA/ST 73/78 and I do believe Kryznowek was a better shot in both regards - seen Stankovic at 78 ST, but he has 81 ST for his prime classic set, so 79 is fine with me for Kryznowek.

The SP to 94 I do not agree with as I do believe Hitzlsperger to have always been better than whatever Kryznowek mustered in the past. Also you got the likes of Gerrard who in his classic sets is 93 - and that seems about right - the 04/05 set has 95, but to be fair there really was a gap between the power of Kryznowek and Gerrard at his best.


Considering Blaszcykowski's advantage in speed, AGL, RES when defending - I do think Kryznowek, as you mentioned fantasista, was the better tackler and 'clean' defending midfielder of the two. Looking at current Serie A ladders I can see his DEF at 57, maybe even 58 level with Snejider.


On DS he was not particularly nippy with the ball so any raise should be slight, to an 82, maybe 83 at the most.


Also how about adding a consistency value under Growth Type, for anyone that may use a compatible PES version? I was thinking 6 easily, but a 7 could even fit him - a consistent performer at club and country in general, only interrupted by injuries. Thoughts?

Summary of what I am in agreement with and propose;
Remove SB*

DEF 58
DS 83
SA 74
SP 93 (keep the same)
ST 79
MEN 80

Add Consistency (below Growth Type and above INFO) 7


PS I forgot how annoying adding colours to text was, it was not like this a year or so ago, but now it is motherfudgin hassel as all the text keeps clumping together losing spacing inbetween itself everytime you highlight it and apply a colour code :evil: .
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Dec 15, 11:45

I'm glad you finally responded :). I think we finally have an agreement, proposed changes looks great ;). Nevertheless I really prefer 94 sp. The gap between him and Gerrard wasn't that big. I'd say it was a matter of consitency which results from Krzynio's lack in technique and accuracy, but mostly technique. In hard situations when Gerrards shot was hardly worse than normally, Krzynówek totally screwed it up. The polish needed some space and time to give 100% of his power and accuracy, but if he had it his shot was almost as destructive as Gerrards.

One more thing... why he has only 76 curl? I know he wasn't a master of that but he was able to put a nice swerve in his shots and crosses, enough to deserve 80 IMO.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Oriello » 2011 Dec 15, 16:43

Your right I failed to consider Gerrard's much better ST from his prime sets, of 85, his shots will more consistently come off with the rated SP of 93/95 - On that point I would not be opposed to 94 SP for Krzynowek...but I still do think Hitzlsperger was a bit more powerful - and with our proposed changes to shooting Krzynowek will have the better ST. I also started to read through Hitzlsperger's thread and was reminded of Kolarov existing :lol: he has SA 73/ SP 93/ ST 79, I think Kryznowek was not better than Kolarov in SP - and I actually think they are a bit similar in shooting style so Krzynowek sitting on SA 74/ SP 93/ ST 79 is still fine by me.

Clearly more opinions are needed on Shot Power ;).


For curling I do not clearly remember his crossing as to whether to say he was +4 points better than a 76 - I do remember some of his freekicks, and like the 4-5 I recall were power and placement shots (little bend), I think there was one from a friendly against Ecuador in Spain were he actually curled it really nicely (..or that may have been a different player - my memory is fuzzy :oops: ).

Well here is an example of Seedorf's curl ability recently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT2HIB9U7WQ (at 0:34 sec you can see a top down view), his current stats have Curling at 78, I cannot concretely say that Kryznowek was better or worse than this, from what I recall I am leaning to at least -1 point below Seedorf's 78, so a 77 -- someone else should probably comment on this ability with a more authority on Krzynowek.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby jurgens » 2011 Dec 15, 19:56

Updated. Leaving SP for now.
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Re: Jacek KRZYNÓWEK | 2004-2005

Postby Fantasista » 2012 Mar 01, 11:46

You forgot to remove SB ;)
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