Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-04 | 2005-08 | 2009-11

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Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-04 | 2005-08 | 2009-11

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 Jul 06, 23:18

Club: FC Porto


Growth Type: Standard/Lasting

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Club: Chelsea FC


Growth Type: Standard/Lasting

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Club: Real Madrid CF


Growth Type: Standard/Lasting

Last edited by p1rha on 2009 Nov 16, 22:19, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby Markulur » 2009 Jul 07, 00:30

Your defence suggestion is a better value for me. Terry was one of the bests on positioning, for me on the same numbers on this compared to this Carvalho and he only was 90.

For speed, I think that you went too far. :lol: He has 80/79 and you said 85/83. Nah, I just think some like 82/82 or similar, he was not lower than the actual Ricardo. And DS has to come up sure. 76/77 at least.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 07, 00:59

Markulur wrote: Terry was one of the bests on positioning, for me on the same numbers on this compared to this Carvalho and he only was 90.

Disagree, to me Ricardo has better positioning, he's faster to react but he doesn't have nor the strenght neither the same spirit Terry has. And Terry is a lord in the air compared to Carvalho, wich is extremly important in the Premierleague. I think that a move to spain or italy should be a good move for R. Carvalho. Like i said, i rate Ricardo as one of the best defenders in terms of positioning and clean tackle, near the likes of Nesta or Maldini. If Terry has 90 then 93 for Ricardo is fully deserved imo.

Markulur wrote:For speed, I think that you went too far. :lol: He has 80/79 and you said 85/83. Nah, I just think some like 82/82 or similar, he was not lower than the actual Ricardo. And DS has to come up sure. 76/77 at least.

What i meant was that he couldn't be faster than Jorge Andrade, which i rate at 85/83. Anyway i still think that the gap between R. Carvalho and Andrade should be higher than 3/1 points, don't know wich one should i change though...

PS.: Dribble speed updated
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby choccy » 2009 Jul 07, 01:41

Markulur wrote:Your defence suggestion is a better value for me. Terry was one of the bests on positioning, for me on the same numbers on this compared to this Carvalho and he only was 90.

For speed, I think that you went too far. :lol: He has 80/79 and you said 85/83. Nah, I just think some like 82/82 or similar, he was not lower than the actual Ricardo. And DS has to come up sure. 76/77 at least.


Disagree with what you say about positioning, Terry was worse for sure. Terry's tackling was better though, which muddles the waters a bit. I think DEF 91 is fair, 93 is overstating it a bit. Classic (06/07) Terry is a DEF 88 to me, Carvalho was a brilliant foil for him. Not to mention that Makele did a good job in front of them, he's essential if you try to analyze how well Chelsea defended during the time. I know these stats aren't meant for his time in Chelsea, but I think Carvalho's prime was at Chelsea.

Agree with lowering his speed though, he wasn't that fast. And he was (and still is), very cultured on the ball. DS 77 is fine by me. Compared with Rio though, I find his TEC a bit much. 77/78 would be enough IMO.
Last edited by choccy on 2009 Jul 07, 02:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 07, 01:58

To me Terry could be at 90 for defense, no problem. There are too few player with the defense stat above 90 in PSDB imo, but i'll probaly low it to 91.
Anyway, what do u suggest for speed then?
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby choccy » 2009 Jul 07, 02:14

Tbh, I have it the other way round, I think ATT is overrated in a LOT of classic players. Can't be arsed to bring up a huge debate about that though.

Regarding Terry I think his positioning was average for a CB considered world class at the time, but his tackling was so good that I'd give him 88. If I were to just rate his positioning I'd give him mid-80's. To me he was never world class at anticipating the moves of an attacker. Tackling and the ability to intercept aerial balls was top notch though, which is why I think 88 is fair.

I regard Carvalho at his prime at Chelsea, so I'm not sure about his speed stats at Porto, but Markulur suggestions seems OK. ACC 82 seems high though, but again I think about his Chelsea days.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby Markulur » 2009 Jul 07, 10:45

He is taking form. Condition can be 7 sure... He can play a good number of matches if I'm not wrong. And you forget consistency.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 07, 16:14

What do u mean by "he's taking form" ? Didn't understand ...
How's condition related to the numbers of matches he can play? In my ML Ronaldo has condition 3 and he plays virtually all the matches... To me condition is consistency, the way the player put on the same level of performance in every game, without highs and lows, but i admit i never cared too much about this stat. I mean, in good or bad shape he would always play, unless he was injured or being saved for a more important game.
I haven't forgot consistency, is just that i play pes 2009 and don't edit that stat. But he was consistent allright. U can suggest number as i never really knew how to rate consistency.
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby BigStu » 2009 Jul 20, 07:17

I am really sorry for posating the other set of stats, i din't only do it becuase of disagree ments with this set I also did it as I felt that season was his best and that I wanted a set of sats from his time at chelsea to go in the chelsea 2004-2006 team
now onto the suggestions

he should be faster, the current 31 year old carvalho has 84 84 he should at least match it maybe 85 85 he also 184cm
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby p1rha » 2009 Jul 20, 13:25

This season he was league Champion with Porto, won the Champions League and was voted as the best CB in the competition, went to the semi final of euro 2004 being our best defender by far and entering the euro dream team.
Just watch his individual honors and tell me if u still think that's his best season or if that's the best season u saw from him.

* Portuguese Footballer of the Year: 2002-03
* UEFA Club Best Defender of the Year: 2003-04
* UEFA Team of the Year: 2003-04
* UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 2004
* FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 2006
* Chelsea Players' Player of the Year: 2007-08

About speed, Ricardo is fast but i think it's just nonsense to give the actual RC 84/84. Defenders in the english game are tall and slow, it's easy for him to stand out for his speed, because in Porto or the NT he didn't stand out for speed. I have given my opinion on the present set of stats, but never got a reply i think. I may raise him a bit more, but to me 84/84 is too much.

What i would really like to discuss is technique, defense and response, as i feel more confident in most of the other values.

As for height and weight i have these values from zerozero, 1,83 cm; 79 kg. The ones posted are the ones from the game. Can someone confirm refering the source?
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby BigStu » 2010 Apr 23, 14:29

while I can't say I have seen him at porto, I have seen him at chelsea and a number of changes could be made which I will suggest later.

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speed for a start is too low, he was quite speedy for a a defender when he joined chelsea
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Apr 24, 23:16

DEF: Cannavaro (97) | RC (93)
Comment: 4 points gap, and RC not being in the God region here? I really don't think so. RC was one of the finest defenders, with the most effective tackles I've seen in 12 years of football-watching.

RESP: Cannavaro (94) | RC (90)
Comment: RC is well renowned for his anticipation and the ability to read situations before they get out of hand (his biggest strengths actually). Classic Cannavaro is not superior than Classic Riccy at these. They should be on par, at least. I'd even rate RC's RESP higher than Cannavaro's.


RC was not so rough and hadn't the physical capabilities of Cannavaro (namely: Balance, Huge Jumping Ability and great Stamina) but IMHO on his peak, there wasn't much of gap between their DEF and RESPONSE.
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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004

Postby BigStu » 2010 Apr 25, 09:37

I have decided the best course of action would be do post up my view of him during his first 2 seasons at chelsea, and then disucusions could be made for the set in the first post, and anyway a chelsea setis needed and has been for some time now for the mourinho era team

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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby Luisao82 » 2010 Apr 30, 17:02

Luisao82 wrote:DEF: Cannavaro (97) | RC (93)
Comment: 4 points gap, and RC not being in the God region here? I really don't think so. RC was one of the finest defenders, with the most effective tackles I've seen in 12 years of football-watching.

RESP: Cannavaro (94) | RC (90)
Comment: RC is well renowned for his anticipation and the ability to read situations before they get out of hand (his biggest strengths actually). Classic Cannavaro is not superior than Classic Riccy at these. They should be on par, at least. I'd even rate RC's RESP higher than Cannavaro's.


RC was not so rough and hadn't the physical capabilities of Cannavaro (namely: Balance, Huge Jumping Ability and great Stamina) but IMHO on his peak, there wasn't much of gap between their DEF and RESPONSE.


I insist.
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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004

Postby da_ni » 2010 May 04, 10:35

here's something i don't get... We (in Portugal) must be rating speed wrong... Carvalho was fast, has 80 in speed, current David Luiz is very fast, has 80 in speed, classic Carvalh from his chelsea years has has 84 in speed... :o :shock:
4 point increase in just a month (or not even that much)?
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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004

Postby BigStu » 2010 May 04, 12:06

prnha has underated his speed, he is currently worthy of an 83 (or was last time he playerd I should say) but yet prhana only gave him 81 back then when he was worhty of 84 when he came to chelsea...
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Re: Ricardo Carvalho | 2003-2004

Postby FernandoA13 » 2011 Mar 21, 01:18

Luisao82 wrote:
Luisao82 wrote:DEF: Cannavaro (97) | RC (93)
Comment: 4 points gap, and RC not being in the God region here? I really don't think so. RC was one of the finest defenders, with the most effective tackles I've seen in 12 years of football-watching.

RESP: Cannavaro (94) | RC (90)
Comment: RC is well renowned for his anticipation and the ability to read situations before they get out of hand (his biggest strengths actually). Classic Cannavaro is not superior than Classic Riccy at these. They should be on par, at least. I'd even rate RC's RESP higher than Cannavaro's.


RC was not so rough and hadn't the physical capabilities of Cannavaro (namely: Balance, Huge Jumping Ability and great Stamina) but IMHO on his peak, there wasn't much of gap between their DEF and RESPONSE.


I insist.


I think your right Luisao. Ricardo Carvalho stil amazes me playing now for Real Madrid. He's postioning and response are awesome, it's like as if he could watch in the future where the ball was going.
Cannavaro used he's aggresion along with good jump timing very nice. It seemed at times more spectacular then R. Carvalho.

But i think trough out he's career Carvalho was more concentrated, positioning top notch, he almost never makes mistakes.

And i remember for example Cannavaro not being top notch at Real Madrid. They played about at the same time in there career (age) and there pace where comparable.
And that's where you see Carvalho quality. Most defenders of Real Madrid need to be quick, because other teams mostly counter attack them.
This is why Cannavaro didn't match the spanish club he prefered to play deep. Where Carvalho with about the same speed did (ofcourse it helps if Mourinho is in charge, Mourinho being a tactical master mind.)

I'm not that good at making a point when im wrighting :? , but i just want to share my view that Carvalho is def. underated. In my eyes he is one of the most reliable defenders for the past 10 years. :)

For me Carvalho at least deserves Defence 95 and well like i mentioned before.. he's interception being outstanding response at least 93 BUT IMHO and this coming from a slightly jealous guy that jused to play also as CB for Estrela Amadora and SCP
He deserves 96.

Ricardo 'the man that looks like a pirate' Carvalho
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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004 & 2004-2007

Postby FernandoA13 » 2011 Mar 21, 01:25

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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004 & 2004-2007

Postby JMVP » 2011 May 15, 21:06

I just read everything that was written in this thread and i have to agree his speed is overrated by a good amount. He was never as fast as David Luiz, and in that time he was clearly slower than Jorge Andrade, by a significant difference. Ricardo was never a fast player, although he was faster than your average tall and heavy CB. The problem is that english fans take Vidic and Terry for a reference when those guys are really slow, no wonder Ricardo looks fast to them.
He wasn't any stronger than today either, and his stars and response/defence values weren't any better either.
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Re: Ricardo CARVALHO | 2003-2004 & 2004-2007

Postby Djoni » 2011 Aug 22, 18:53

JMVP wrote:I just read everything that was written in this thread and i have to agree his speed is overrated by a good amount. He was never as fast as David Luiz, and in that time he was clearly slower than Jorge Andrade, by a significant difference. Ricardo was never a fast player, although he was faster than your average tall and heavy CB. The problem is that english fans take Vidic and Terry for a reference when those guys are really slow, no wonder Ricardo looks fast to them.
He wasn't any stronger than today either, and his stars and response/defence values weren't any better either.


Completely agree with all you have said. ;)

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