Raheem Sterling


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Raheem Sterling

Postby PES Stats Database » 2012 Aug 24, 08:35

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Last edited by PIPA23 on 2014 Sep 17, 02:04, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Paddy » 2019 Apr 19, 08:57

jurgens wrote:
Feel like its pointless posting anything in here but;


ugh

It seems like you just want to enforce your opinion without even remotely considering anyone else, or trying to understand why we rate how we do.

The goal here is to have the most accurate sets as possible, no ones trying to discount your opinion, we are really just trying to completely understand your opinion, and making sure you understand ours.


Bullshit, I compared to the tables, I'm entitled to disagree with how things are done around here. Liverpool players in general are all massively overrated compared to other sets. Virgil van Dijk and Trent being two of the major sets which are overrated. I've shared my opinion in here before about it but its been shot down, which is why I said I feel its pointless.

jurgens wrote:
Raheem Sterling this season: 23 goals from 98 shots

Natural finisher Harry Kane: 24 goals from 137 shots


Kane is definitely much more of a chancer with his shooting than sterling, taking really difficult shots and shots from outside box are kinda his thing, so success rate would be influenced by these factors. And sterling is kinda the inverse, really taking shots from up close, getting on the end of crosses etc. Hes been showing this season his ability to shoot after cutting in from the left though, it's hard to know how good he is at it though with such a small sample size, as he wasn't doing this at all last year because of being forced onto the other foot playing from the right.


Taking cognitive bias out of the question, use understat's information for the season:
https://understat.com/league/EPL

Sterling's xg is 14.22, yet has scored 17, whilst Kane has scored 17 with an xg of 16.12. Both are out performing their expected goal scoring chances, but Raheem is far exceeding his, which showcases his ability to score harder shots and how good his finishing is. Shots from distance normally have a massively low chance of an xG in any model, meaning that it would barely impact the players xG.

jurgens wrote:
His attack should be higher than Mane's... actually wait don't compare with Liverpool players.


If you want to help us, please answer this. How can we differentiate between the two players, without implying one is something hes not?

Mane is erratic and quite awful on the ball, very frequently. Hes not good at creating, and he can't be relied upon to do it. His shooting is terrible, I'm much more likely to bet against him finishing than putting it away.
But hes on 18 goals this season nontheless. How do we go about rating this?/

It is harder to compare a player who is consistent such as Raheem with a streaky player such as Mane. Given Mane's form comes in gluts, you could have his form being lower alllowing for a higher degree in variety in the game. I'd also have his shot power being far more than Sterling's. From playing the game for years, you can often score a lot easier with a player with higher SP and lower SA, than someone with lower SP and higher SA.

Sterling should have higher SA, ATT, TW, Passing, Mane should have higher speed, slightly. I also think you overstate Mane's lack of technique, he still controls the ball well and in difficult situations. One is an instinctive player, the other is not. Would I rate someone who is instinctive as a higher attack rating, no, that would be response.


[*]Attack is the danger level of a player whenever he is in offensive play.

A player who's movement off the ball is generally better has inherently a higher level of danger. If a player averages 0.2 less offsides per game, 0.9 more key passes per game, and has scored a similar amount of goals (1 less), in over 200 minutes less I'd consider this a fact.

[*]Players with high levels of attack will know the best course of action to take in whatever situation he faces.

8 more assists, 1 less goal this season for Raheem. Last season, Raz had 29 goals and assists, whilst Mane has 17 goals and assists. Raz had 2593 minutes, whilst Mane had 2207. Mane regularly makes the wrong decision, seemingly refuses to pass to Salah at times while Raheem is often unselfish. Which explains why the difference in assists is so massive.

[*]Attack's significance as an attribute is amplified by other stats, which will dictate his style of play. These traits pertain to the player's role. For example, a playmaker will be better at dictating play and recognizing chances, while a striker will become more potent, and adept at overcoming whatever obstacles are in his way.

Raheem is both more potent and better at dictating the play while high up the pitch.

I don't see how my original statement was any different to the explanation of what attack is, or ever was?

Movement is "is the danger level of a player whenever he is in offensive play."

Response is not movement off the ball in the term of attacking runs, it is someone who can latch onto crosses, who can respond to a keepers parry:
" Offensively, high Response players are more likely to get on the end of spilled chances/loose balls and crosses, etc. High Response is a very desireable stat for poacher-type players."

What I am describing is a player who is both high in TW and Attack, I wouldn't label Raheem as a high response player.



jurgens wrote:Sterling on the other hand is excellent on the ball, he has among the best control with the ball at his feet in the prem, his passing is quality too. But sterling has issues, in spite of his excellent technicality, he doesn't make that much use of it. Like people have said in this thread, hes much better off the ball. Hes not good at picking out players with through balls, hes good at cutting in from the right, but his dribbling is often lacking in terms of what he can create with it.


What you've just described is a high attack player. Also I disagree massively that he can't find players when in attacking positions, he has the most assists in the league.

jurgens wrote:Consider those limits, and consider the strengths he has with his technicality.
Lastly, consider his off the ball strenghts and ability to get on the end of chances.

We have a player whos excellent at getting on the end of things, making runs behind the defense and consistnetly scoring through these means. But at the same time hes a player with high tehcnicality, who doesn't make too much use of it.

How do we rate all of these at once? We don't want to imply that sterling is someone who gets on the ball, and creates a tonne of danger through passing and dribbling, because he isn't. There is many wingers that are so, so much better than him at this. But at the same time, hes miles over the vast majority at creating danger through movement and runs. How do we go about rating all aspects fairly?

Sterling is miles over mane technically. But mane still scores. Sterling doesn't open games up like a player with his technicality should.


Sterling almost leads the most goals in the league and the assists too, how does that not show he opens up games like he should? He's the most consistent attacking player in the league. Who is a better creator than him on the wing in the league?

[quote="jurgens"]So how do we represent this?

I'm honestly asking for help with how to represent it, as I don't know. Do we give sterling more agrression/response with SA? Is it right to give him huge attack on top of his technicality, even though he doesn't do that much with it?
And how to be fair to mane at the same time as hes undeniably inferior in all aspects technically?/quote]

He doesn't need more aggression as he isn't constantly up forward like Salah, he doesn't need more response, he needs more Attack, I'd drop his Response, raise attack to above de Bruyne's and raise teamwork as well as SA.

A player can be inferior technically in every area and still be a fantastic goalscorer, look at Messi and Ronaldo.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby furymaker » 2019 Apr 19, 11:54

Messi inferior technically, to who, in what area?

Sterling has been unreal good this season, his consistency with creating danger still can get better, his shooting is good once he gets in a comfortable position, but he will get there, no doubt.

His off ball movement is really good, he gets himself in positions behind defenders, can stay wide, cut inside, get behind them, can get on the end of loose balls, from what I saw from his so far, he still needs to be more aggressive or creative with his running at defenders and with his passing.

But under Pep he has been developing and you can see Pep has worked with him individually. But Sterling has so much more room to grow.

I think his ATT can be higher than this, SA can get a bump to low yellows imo, like 81.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Mrky_MNE » 2019 Apr 19, 12:39

Paddy wrote:
jurgens wrote:

A player can be inferior technically in every area and still be a fantastic goalscorer, look at Messi and Ronaldo.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm just gonna leave it here.

I doubt Messi is overall technically inferior to any player in history.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby godsplan » 2019 Apr 19, 12:45

I'd give him 88-90 Att, drop Res to around 86, Technique to 85 (because he's inconsistent with his first touch, it's mostly good but he's prone to being clumsy), SP and ST for me are low greens but like furymaker said SA can go up 80-82 range because he's a capable goal scorer but he can produce a few clangers like when he missed an open goal against Palace last week. Also I still maintain that his TW can be lower yellows.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Paddy » 2019 Apr 19, 13:32

furymaker wrote:Messi inferior technically, to who, in what area?


Mrky_MNE wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm just gonna leave it here.

I doubt Messi is overall technically inferior to any player in history.



I'm talking about Ronaldo being inferior to Messi ffs. Not the other way round
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Paddy » 2019 Apr 19, 13:34

godsplan wrote:I'd give him 88-90 Att, drop Res to around 86, Technique to 85 (because he's inconsistent with his first touch, it's mostly good but he's prone to being clumsy), SP and ST for me are low greens but like furymaker said SA can go up 80-82 range because he's a capable goal scorer but he can produce a few clangers like when he missed an open goal against Palace last week. Also I still maintain that his TW can be lower yellows.


I'd agree with this sentiment.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby jurgens » 2019 Apr 19, 14:11

Who is a better creator than him on the wing in the league?


Hazard? Even sane is better. Sterling isn't primarily a creator, it's a byproduct of his game, not a focus. And for a player with his technicality, he should be better. I'm not saying hes bad, but a player with his technicality, he should be able to spray out through balls, he doesn't. For a player with his speed dribbling, he should be able to open up games with his dribbling constantly. But he doesn't.
Don't be fooled by his assists. Basically all of his assists this season are simple 5 feet pass across to people beside him. And hes goot at that, and it's important, don't get me wrong.

https://youtu.be/711y6pM05yg?t=334 a pass like this for example. Sterling is up there technically with other with the best wingers, but his creation game with passing has very little in it. We need to be careful with players bordering the 90's for attack, who also have great technicality, as it's implying advanced attacking ability in all areas.


His off ball movement is really good, he gets himself in positions behind defenders, can stay wide, cut inside, get behind them, can get on the end of loose balls, from what I saw from his so far, he still needs to be more aggressive or creative with his running at defenders and with his passing.



this.
Sterling's xg is 14.22, yet has scored 17,


No clue what xg is, can you explain?


A player can be inferior technically in every area and still be a fantastic goalscorer, look at Messi and Ronaldo.


Yeah, and look at Ronaldos offensive stats to create that dynamic between them. That isn't there with mane/sterling/
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Phil » 2019 Apr 27, 11:54

I see no reason for him to be this high for LPA, he really is quite a poor crosser of a ball. His crosses have no shape or whip and he lacks the technique to be yellow here, especially when you compare him to someone like Salah who has very decent technique and often puts some decent balls in from wide positions.

His technique is also overrated, again, comparing him to Salah who regularly kills balls dead and is much more consistent and capable of taking difficult balls. Sterling is capable of trapping difficult balls but it is mainly from using the inside of his boot and the ball can get away from him more regularly than I'd expect of a player with close to orange tech.

He also seems to be quite one footed to me, I noticed last season on the right wing he would often mess up easy chances by either trying to hit it on his right in positions where he should have used his left, or just completely mishitting it on his left.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby vinnie » 2019 May 05, 01:31

i agree with some of the opinions about SA and somewhat about TEC.

his touch doesn't really seem that good to me, the old value seemed mostly ok. i'm mostly speaking from old impressions of last season so this might be an outdated view, but i haven't seen anything in the occaisonal city match i catch where he'd show he might be worth more, so maybe i would only say the current TEC might be a point or two too high. He's seemed good to me, but mostly around that Bale level.

on the other hand, i wonder like others if the current SA rating is harsh on sterling?

He's clearly got bad/mediocre ST, which is rated fairly at the 75 st in his set; he mishits and scuffs lots of bouncing shots or shots that he doesn't have on the ground... but he's become quite a good shooter when he's got the ball on the foot. he's good at hitting hard shots to the corners. i don't think as much as 85 SA is an unfair rating for sterling nowadays.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby AdAc » 2019 May 21, 16:45

It's curious that in his "contemporary players" set 2017-19 era he has 85 shot accuracy and a lower technique value but not here (and a similar thing for Alisson, Ederson...)
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Suji » 2019 May 21, 17:11

AdAc wrote:It's curious that in his "contemporary players" set 2017-19 era he has 85 shot accuracy and a lower technique value but not here (and a similar thing for Alisson, Ederson...)


I saw the same thing. Alisson's response was like 97 or something and Edersons' BB was in oranges.
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Re: Raheem Sterling

Postby Dío » 2019 Oct 09, 22:05

How about profilic winger playing style? I think he deserves it, alongside with goal poacher card

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