David de Gea


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David de Gea

Postby PES Stats Database » 2012 Jun 21, 06:59

Full Name: David de Gea Quintana
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby the sloth » 2012 Jun 21, 15:43

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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 21, 15:48

Yes, i believe you are right when you suspect the disparity. A possible reason is the difficulty level of De Gea's attempted passes, he frequently goes for players with little space (thus it is harder for them to control the ball) and around the half-line point. Though his completion rate may seem unimpressive, his accuracy of passing itself is very very good.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby the sloth » 2012 Jun 21, 16:18

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Re: David DE GEA

Postby bitz » 2012 Jun 21, 17:37

I think GK passes are very random, be it 60 or 75, regardless of value.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 21, 18:23

My problem is that when i see him miss a pass it's not often due to inaccuracy. With Bitz here, on a whole they are slightly random, but when i watch De Gea i see him try to go for long passes, try to initiate fast breaks on the counter, and often with lethal, chance creating accuracy. I don't often see inaccuracy to the extent of what 57.8% COMPLETION would suggest, Xavi has something like a ridiculous 96% completion percentage, but the actual accuracy he needs for the types of passes he prefers to play is not supernatural. I just think that that statistic isn't considerate enough of other variables to be validly used as a point for pass accuracy.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby the sloth » 2012 Jun 21, 22:49

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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 21, 23:24

Your logic is well supported by statistical analysis, but frankly the numbers do not reflect the players at all. Your view is bereft of one important particular dimension in this discussion, your view of his pass execution and accuracy. Frankly, you seem to be dubious purely due to a single variably restricted statistic. If you were to rummage about the ladders, I'm sure you would find inumerable poorly rated players as suggested by statistics. The fact of the matter is that how well a player weighs his pass and how well he places it are the ONLY aspects from SPA and SPS that are important to rate with. I would recommend that you seriously consider what a statistic implies and not go beyond it. In fact, to accurately rate a player, the only good way is watching the player, and noting the ability he shows in an ability. Statistics will mostly do nothing for you, and they're mostly unimportant aesthetic elements that can be used to support a notion, but never to create or deny one. I suggest you shouldn't pay any attention to stats, only on the player. Anyways, concerning De Gea's pass accuracy, I'm of the opinion that it's rare to find a goalie that can start counter attacks like him. It's not very important to address that area, I'm far more interested in an update for his goalkeeping skills since... He's a goalie :)
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby the sloth » 2012 Jun 22, 02:03

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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 22, 02:15

I suggested only discussion on it, nothing substantial. I had said as well that it isn't the most important matter to address at the moment, just an opinion of mine. Goalies aren't typically renowned for being remarkable in attack, I consider some of the things i've seen from him to be remarkable in a unique way. Putting it in the context of all history, or top 4 goalies in distribution... greatly exaggerates and dramatizes the comparison. If you have a solid differing view i'm interested in that, i'm not interested in objections to him being amongst greats of the past, that's of little use honestly.

I'm not very intent right now in discussing his passing, i have my views on it, maybe you have your own, it's all very limited and based on his debut seasons play. De Gea is the goalie i watch the most, so i am pretty familiar with him. That being said, i could be wrong.



But anyways, Let's refocus on his pending goalkeeping updates, i'm interested in whether there are any objections or alternative opinions. I have made a case for some updates from my views and testing, i'm interested in feedback.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jun 22, 17:35

Why does he need to be rated as one of the most agile keepers ever? Buffon for example, was so, so much quicker on his feet and in every movement he made, so was cesar. His positioning is a lot more impressive imo.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby Kerry » 2012 Jun 22, 18:00

According to Seb, Keepers doesn't need too much agility to represent them anyway.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 23, 10:53

jurgens wrote:Why does he need to be rated as one of the most agile keepers ever? Buffon for example, was sos, so much quicker on his feet and in every movement he made, so was cesar. His positioning is a lot more impressive imo.


I find that a slightly odd a statement considering how many keepers are rated at the 83-88 AGI range (not that i agree with all of the ratings mind you, but however, within that context, the statement seems odd to single out De Gea)


I think that more of Buffon's 'quickness' in movement was due more to his supreme goalkeeping ability, awesome response, immaculate positioning, prudent goalkeeping skills (parry/ save techique). When i consider Agillity for keepers i am primarily focused on the speed of going down, speed of reaching down, and flexibility of range of movement reaching down rather then overall quickness of movement (which i think can also be attributed to response, acceleration, jump, height, anticipation etc more then agility). I personally think that in agility solely, De Gea very well could be at 84 AGI.

Heres the EPL agility ladder for keepers.
Spoiler: show
AGILITY
82 Dorus DE VRIES, Keiren WESTWOOD, Wayne HENNESSEY
81 Brian MURPHY, David DE GEA, DONI
80 Adam BOGDAN, Anders LINDEGAARD, Asmir BEGOVIC, David STOCKDALE, Ján MUCHA, John RUDDY, Mark BUNN, Simon MIGNOLET
79 Boaz MYHILL, Fraser FORSTER, Matej DELAČ, Thibaut COURTOIS, Thomas SORENSEN, Vito MANNONE


Would having De Gea at 84 agility be wrong in comparison with those goalies? I don't believe so.

Comparing agility;

Dorus DE VRIES - 82 AGI
Spoiler: show

Wayne HENESSEY - 82 AGI
Spoiler: show

Alexander DONI - 82 AGI
Spoiler: show

Asmir BEGOVIC - 80 AGI
Spoiler: show

Simon MIGNOLET - 80 AGI (worth an 82-83 even imo)
Spoiler: show

David DE GEA - 81(84?) AGI
Spoiler: show

unfortunately one of the good saves near the end of the game wasn't included, it is continued below, (skip tp 1:15)




Emphasis on De Gea of course


There is the very real possibility that many of the sampled keepers are inaccurately rated (a notion i would as well agree to), however, even in respect to this, barring that the whole level is set too high for those keepers, theoretically De Gea at 84 AGI would be logical. As well, I've thoroughly tested De Gea at 84 AGI, and i didn't experience any unrealistic or unexpected movements from him compared to real life capabilities.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jun 24, 05:08

I think that more of Buffon's 'quickness' in movement was due more to his supreme goalkeeping ability, awesome response, immaculate positioning, prudent goalkeeping skills (parry/ save techique)


jargon, really vinnie. I don't get all flabbergasted when I see a player perform something well. Do you think I see a player shoot with precision and get so awe stuck by the level of accuarcy that I naturally think... he must be shoting harder/faster because of this accuracy? I have the ability to look at things and see them how they are.

When i consider Agillity


Agility is their speed in their body movements. If you can't differentiate acceleration/positioning from agility, thats on you.. but I can.

Would having De Gea at 84 agility be wrong in comparison with those goalies? I don't believe so.


Please get more familar with PSD's past, it would save everyone a lot of time. You should know by now that 90% of keepers are in old standards, making all these comparisons irrelevant.

Compare him to an updated keeper, does de gea deserve to be 6 points over this man?


As well, I've thoroughly tested De Gea at 84 AGI, and i didn't experience any unrealistic or unexpected movements from him compared to real life capabilities.


So? I could say the same for using xavi with 99 ment, doesn't justify him having that value. Personal views on how a player behaves is extremely subjective and mostly irrelevant.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 24, 05:50

hmm i agree with your point about the compared goalies being outdated, though i did say i questioned the accuracy of them. Getting with PSD's past is very difficult with obscure players :P

Regardless, seeing that JC is at 83 AGI for that period shown in the video, 84 AGI De Gea is excessive i concede.

I wonder, should JC be higher though? He's been 85 AGI by Konami for that period. If he should be an 85 then i would say De Gea could be 82/83.

If he is fairly rated there, then i would say 81 AGI is fine for De Gea.

I suppose it goes down to what the most agile keeper should be rated, that way there can be a good comparison point to quickly organize rating ladders. But that's another issue.

I am fine with 81 AGI depending on your thoughts.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby BigStu » 2012 Jun 25, 12:06

I've only updated probably only a dozen keepers to the new standards as jurgens said......

will all be done when I have the time but untill I finish sorting the prem in my OF I'm not willing to do it
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 25, 19:33

ya no worries, no pressure on you. at least for now :twisted:
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Aug 20, 03:34

so stu it's been about two months. Can we look into him again? i think we can all agree the current set is sorely misrated.

and also i cropped that ridiculously framed picture:
Spoiler: show
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Aug 20, 21:54

Bump. And he had a really really great performance tonight, still too weak and hence bullied in corners and set-pieces, but his shot-stopping is ace.
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Re: David DE GEA

Postby ballmer » 2012 Aug 20, 22:05

His parrying is really impressive. KS, I suppose it is. His parries are almost always safe, strong hands you might call it. He was great tonight. Definitely needs an update since this set was made.

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