Hakim Ziyech

[PES Stats Database]

[moadelh]

your reflex please, there is no reason not to add the early cross card , just see his videos, a lot of centers per match

[jurgens]

from our discord:

AkephalosToday at 3:29 PM
maybe ziyech and werner could have a good partnership yes?
[3:29 PM]
the fucked up thing is, leipziig won't count with angeliño and werner for the upcoming ucl matches
[3:29 PM]
maybe neither schick

amineToday at 3:30 PM
serves them right for being cheap
[3:30 PM]
they're trying to negotiate schick's valuation down despite wanting him
[3:31 PM]
and they don't want to keep angeliño anyways

AkephalosToday at 3:32 PM
leipzig wants angeliño, from what I read, but man city won't let him go if leipzig doesn't pay a lot and since leipzig still has halstenberg, they should sign another CF as a priority

amineToday at 3:33 PM
"a lot"
[3:34 PM]
20 mil for angeliño is a steal in any market
[3:34 PM]
they're just cheap

robToday at 7:31 PM
werner is so limited
[7:31 PM]
and ziyech has really issues
[7:32 PM]
their CF would really wanna be on point

AkephalosToday at 7:40 PM
isn't siyech a world class passer?

robToday at 7:41 PM
pretty much
[7:42 PM]
but hes very slow, unagile, and very one footed(edited)
[7:42 PM]
and will be playing something akin to a winger in a physically dominant league
[7:42 PM]
he and werner won't get half the space they are currently getting

AkephalosToday at 7:44 PM
but isn't chelsea a slow build and possession kind of team? doesn't ziyech fir that profile?
[7:44 PM]
I think jorhingo strugled at chelsea at the beggining too

robToday at 7:49 PM
i dont know
[7:49 PM]
i dont watch them

anOKguyToday at 7:52 PM
but hes very slow, unagile, and very one footed
@rob Ziyech?
[7:53 PM]
He’s super super agile and quick

robToday at 7:56 PM
really disagree with you on that
[7:57 PM]
woah, his stats have changed completly
[7:57 PM]
looks like a completrly differnt player
[8:00 PM]
when I made his set two years ago he was a player who'd stuggle with speed, and had real issues with mobility
[8:01 PM]
steming from his inability to operate outside of his left

OcrinToday at 8:11 PM
I wouldn't say super agile and quick
[8:12 PM]
He's not a very mobile player
[8:12 PM]
Ok turning though
[8:12 PM]
His passing is next fucking level tho
[8:12 PM]
Insane creativity and danger
[8:13 PM]
World class crosses too

robToday at 8:21 PM
hrm, this is pretty interesting
[8:21 PM]
so fucking annoying my post isnt there

AkephalosToday at 8:22 PM
he doesn't seem slow
wyPLAYLIST_8e01eb0d.mp4
1.70 MB

robToday at 8:22 PM
i wrote all about his issues, and how limited he is due to his 1 footedness, and how it hinders his ability to do anything
[8:23 PM]
but back then, he was playing in the mid, and finding himelf not being able to open up on his left
[8:23 PM]
pretty interesting that they would move him to left wing, which would free him of that hinderance (or greatly alleviate it)
[8:24 PM]
cause i couldn't stress enough how limited he was due to that inability to play at all on his right
[8:25 PM]
and how he couldnt turn with the ball in alot of situations due to this
[8:26 PM]
but essentialy forcing him into a situation where he can only has to really use his left, is very smart
[8:28 PM]
im fairly certain though, he won't be that player with 82/86/82 and 87 agility
[8:28 PM]
and will still have issues with speed and retention
[8:28 PM]
i'd say the truth lies somewhere in between
[8:30 PM]
i really felt that he was WAY too niche, and his handicaps were so extreme, that he wouldn't be able to make it anywhere.... but that move to left wing really is extremly intelligent
[8:31 PM]
and will change that dynamic completly, honestly barely watched him since that update i made, just ucl
[8:31 PM]
i think he was playing on wing then? but i didnt pay much attention

AkephalosToday at 8:31 PM
he swaps between WF and AM, according to transfermarkt

robToday at 8:32 PM
i think he was a cm when i was watching him
[8:33 PM]
and he'd end up being locked down completly due to his body position and having to go < that way, but when it wanst an option, he'd slow play down
[8:33 PM]
he'd be able to do something to alleviate the pressure, or retain, because hes smart and capable, but the level was also low

anOKguyToday at 8:33 PM
I’ve seen him as a RM quite a bit this year
[8:34 PM]
Then he cuts inside and Dest overlaps to keep the width

[furymaker]

I don't really see him like that, he's not slow, pretty positive he's mid yellow agility as well, ofc he's limited due to being very one footed and that limits his options for turns and kinda makes him predictable, but he's highly effective these days, knows his limits, kinda knows what he's good at and uses it really well.

His intelligence offensively, from vision, passing ability, shooting, dribbling, engine and that weird playstyle, he's a monster in my eyes, I think he'll do just fine in EPL, not sure of playing as a pure winger, but his creative ability will allow him to play in Chelsea, his playstyle suits them like a glove, Lampard is also very smart, really great manager who'll make the best out of Ziyech.

Werner for me is a bigger question, especially since Pulisic, Mount, CHO are capable of playing on wings and I'm not sure of Werner being a sole striker.

Ziyech could and should be finding him with his excellent passing if Werner runs behind defenders, but thats not gonna work for that long as teams start sitting deeper against Chelsea, should be happening already as they are a possession based slow build up team thats able to run if you have no clue on how to set your team to play against them.


but in my books, Ziyech gives them another dimension

[jurgens]

Okay, so I found it odd that my perception of him was so off from everyone else when I was positive on his set when I originally gave him a huge overhaul. I watched him a tonne back then too, so I had to find out what the deal was, so I've started to review him. I've gone through about 70% of his dribbles from the last year to really see what I was talking about.

I remember now, and I really need to note things through posts so I don't forget and have a record of progression. So, it's not that he was really slow or really unagile, I remember that he has the ability to be quick and very nimble, much like with his DA, he has the ability to use really upper echelon dribbling, but the thing is, he can't, 90% of the time. I remember now that I gave him harsher stats in these areas to limit him.

Whatever Ziyech looks like on the ball at his best, he can't be that guy. There is something fundamentally wrong with him, I don't know what it is, it's total one footedness for one, but there's something else going on there too that shuts him down even further. I remember due to these reasons, playing deeper and being on the right a lot, he'd look like a white agility guy, as he couldn't use any agility, he was clearly nimble, but something goes wrong and he can't use it, and he could not use any speed for these reasons either, extremely limited. And while he's got great trickery, great ingenuity, and even at times, great DA, these physical downsides, whatever they are, stop him from being that good at dribbling. He can do great things, when he space, and is on his good foot and not closed off, but outside of that situation, things fall apart. Everything gets so awkward, his touches go all over the place. He has some things he can fall back on, if he's on the byline, he can carry the ball a little to the right, but he usually loses control, he can turn backward, and he can do some trickery. He needs to cut in on his left, and this he can do, there he can show decent ds/acc, and ingenuity, but its extremely predictable, and limiting, and I feel this is actually why hes so abusive with his early crossing, he can't actually go anywhere on the right, luckily he's got some skill set.

So while Ziyech can be high acc, mid 80s agility..... you will not be seeing some speedster who can get on the ball and take people on, he needs space to run with it, any pressure or anything outside of ideal situations and he can't.
He just can't have much sucess with this, but you will see bits and pieces of it, and you will see alot of great skills and trickery, fast actions, but I'm telling you... this handicap he has, nerfs his ability into the ground. For whatever high tier ceiling he has in his dribbling, he can't make anywhere near as much use of it as someone with his abilities usually would.

Fortunately he has alot more to him than his dribbling, his vision is extremely good, reat shooting and he has a pretty high work ethic etc. I question how he'll do in epl with a niche role, with his innate handicaps, will definitely be interesting to see how things go with him considering how strong his strengths are and his odd downsides.

[jurgens]

Also, something I want to mention, and something really important. Just how good his SA is. I've gone through his last 180 or so shots, will do more later probably, and hes probably the player whos impressed me the most out of all I've reviewed. His SA is insanely good, if he doesn't scuff or overhit, its straight in bottom corner... every attempt is at least good, typically great. And his heights are crazy good, and hes very consistent with it too. He upwards of 87/88, maybe even over? I doubt he'll get to show that in prem like ineredeversie with last space, but damn... he is one hell of a ranged shooter, that accuracy on ranged shots is something you very rarely see in a player. I had the suspicion he was a good shooter, but going through all this footage, I'm almost thinking he could be 90, his ranged shooting is a total anomaly atm. Just completely insane.

[furymaker]

i think i understand your point regarding his movements, i haven't really went so much into detail analysis of his movements, but didn't really have that feeling of him not being agile, but i completely understand what you mean when i turn on his clips and pay attention to it, it's not really something one would notice without paying much attention to it.
I'll be watching him a lot more once he moves to Chelsea as I'm really enjoying Lampard's Chelsea, so will get a better grasp on him.

On his shooting, he always stood out as a great shooter even if he shot a lot from all kind of positions, good, bad, long, short, whatever, he'd shoot a lot, i'm really not sure of giving a player really high SA if they don't score lots of goals even if they are great shooters, since its a game and he'd probably be banging in way too many goals compared to his usual self.

[moadelh]

I allow myself to return with you in conversation being a person who follows him closely, Ziyech is a WC player technically, I start with his weaknesses:
his weak feet block him from being a good striker in the flanks, and he even limits him from making rapid races, his body too, he is not a strong player in physical contact, he can lose the ball quickly if he doesn’t can't dribble it quickly, the dribbling speed is pretty normal
its strong points:
the first is his vision, it's incredible, you can't anticipate what he's going to do, he's super smart in this point, he likes to make deep passes and between the lines, he makes a lot of centers very precise and fast in the corridors towards the goalkeeper surface, he always put himself available to receive the ball in this point I find that he has to review his TW, he touches a lot of ball, his point which we all agree also, the long shots, among the best long range shooters in the world in precision and power, it seeks the least space to shoot or make decisive passes
, last year we noticed a big devellepoment in his Stamina, he also contributes in deffence, he does high pressing, for the agility I find him very agile 87 is very correct,
Ziyech is a sentimental player, you have to let him exploit his qualities, give him the responsibility to guide the team he likes to be the team leader and the force in building the attack
I am sure with his advice we will see the best AM of EPL
my proposal for statistics, before that I thank Ocrin he did a great job
I just add some modification
for me it favors the attack better than 81, I give it 85
Shot Ac 80, I don't find Saúl Ñíguez for example better than him
shot power 90
on the other hand I would like to know how to make it a player who plays between AM and LW in this position he seeks the diagonal to pass, center or shoot

[El Flaco]

I've gone through his shooting, and it's not easy to make perfect conclusion, but.

1) He shoots way too lot. Over 4 shots per game is way too much, and that's the key problem. He shoots for the sake of shooting a lot, and oftenly from weird angles and awful body positions (which is crucial)

2) His potential ability is amazing, capable of crazy displays. If he manage to make good connection with the ball, with proper body position and good concetration, top bins easily, great at hitting corners

3) He's relied on swerve a lot, and his shooting from the left halfspace is much weaker, except the first time shots after arriving from the right (the goal against Tottenham https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPvypvD3G0) but that's one of the rare ways to curle the ball with the left in the left halfspace. Take him his ability to curle ball, and he's already much weaker) I think that's something that wouldn't be replicated with such a high SA - KP combo, 89 and 88, he'd be deadly with the knuckleballs even from the left hand side, think about that.

So, i think it's essential to give him maybe even higher value for SWE, 93-94. But SA, i agree with Vinnie that he could do with around 82-83 SA, and ST definetely lower than this, around 77.

[moadelh]

if your analysis is correct give us your proposal for all the attributes, and compare with other players who have almost the same style, and also give us the success rate for long range shots for other players and the point of their SA as you said
for me I agree with the stats of Jurgens and his analysis
but I'm waiting for your return to produce the real Ziyech style

[El Flaco]

You literally suggested 80 SA few days ago and you now agree with 89?

[moadelh]

simply because I proposed 85 in ATT and keep 83 in Sh Tech which allows it to be well positioned and look for the right angle through SH tech
now the parameters change, suddenly to do the recompensation we put 89 SA and decrease sh Tech to 80 and keep ATT to 81 and it worked well
I hope I was able to answer you

waiting to receive your proposal

[7Jonathan28]

I've gone through his shooting, and it's not easy to make perfect conclusion, but.

1) He shoots way too lot. Over 4 shots per game is way too much, and that's the key problem. He shoots for the sake of shooting a lot, and oftenly from weird angles and awful body positions (which is crucial)

2) His potential ability is amazing, capable of crazy displays. If he manage to make good connection with the ball, with proper body position and good concetration, top bins easily, great at hitting corners

3) He's relied on swerve a lot, and his shooting from the left halfspace is much weaker, except the first time shots after arriving from the right (the goal against Tottenham https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPvypvD3G0) but that's one of the rare ways to curle the ball with the left in the left halfspace. Take him his ability to curle ball, and he's already much weaker) I think that's something that wouldn't be replicated with such a high SA - KP combo, 89 and 88, he'd be deadly with the knuckleballs even from the left hand side, think about that.

So, i think it's essential to give him maybe even higher value for SWE, 93-94. But SA, i agree with Vinnie that he could do with around 82-83 SA, and ST definetely lower than this, around 77.

89 SA just makes no sense to me, so overrated. He shots a lot, but his accuracy isn't that good. 4,2 shots per game, highest in the Eredivisie, but just 1,5 on target, and he just scored 6 goals in the league(via=whoscored). Maybe 81-82 in SA will seem right.

[jurgens]

89 SA just makes no sense to me, so overrated. He shots a lot, but his accuracy isn't that good. 4,2 shots per game, highest in the Eredivisie, but just 1,5 on target, and he just scored 6 goals in the league(via=whoscored). Maybe 81-82 in SA will seem right.

You can't use shooting statistics at all to give you an idea of SA, doesn't work that way. I've seen every shot hes made in the last two years, so I know the reality behind those shots. He shots alot, yes. Hes coming in from the wing or directly outside the box, looking to shoot from 30-40 yards. Almost all of them are blocked or intercepted, you aren't gonna have a clean shot direct to goal most of the time, this will be extremly rare. So that will ruin your % on it's own. Secondly, he has issues with power control, he does scuff quite a lot of shots, hence his lower ST, these are big contributions to his percent being low. But his accuracy, his intent when he makes a clean connection, and he gets a clear path to go with his shot is incredible. His ability to consistently aim right down at the bottom corner from 35 yards is a complete annomaly. I respect el flacos opinion, but I can't agree with values that low, this is a guy whos consistently able to aim from huge range, with really high level accuracy. It is not normal, it is completly stand out. We can go lower however, though I can't agree with it. Some players just have something ridiculous in their skill set that makes them an outlier, and Ziyech is one of them. If he was a striker in the prem, no one would raise an eye. But out of Aguero, Ronaldo, Dybala, Lewandowski, Salah, Griezman, kane (all players who I've watched at least every shot in the last year of), no one is close to him in terms of the ability to aim and consistently hit the target from range, and not only hit, PLACE, and that warrants an outlier value.

[Whoah10115]

He's not -I don't think- a *Playmaking and *Passing player.

He has long been a *Free Roaming and maybe *Reaction player. The former is almost the crux of him. Always moving and joining late, arriving.

Not him without it.

[moadelh]

great cross and vision from Ziyech

[HeitorVieira]

https://youtu.be/CSmlU8Gv1lQ

Crazy long passing

[moadelh]

what level, what match against schiefeld, he is really a magician, his vision his LPA are really WC, he showed his mental strength, and his impact on the team, he is the player who likes to touch the ball a lot, likes find the solutions, he keeps trying, I followed him, I can confirm that his LPA LPS and curli are no less dangerous than TTA
watch how he gives the effect to his ball, how he gives Weighted Pass, in the depth too, it is difficult to detect his trajectory
I am very convinced that he deserves 95 curli, 93 LPA, I have followed his technique of LPA since his beginnings with Ajax, currently he deserves those numbers