Portugal All Stars


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Portugal All Stars

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 Apr 03, 03:15

Portugal All Stars

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Manager: _por Manuel da Luz Afonso

Team Roster:

Goalkeepers:
Manuel BENTO - _por Benfica
Costa PARREIRA- _por Benfica

Defenders:
Humberto COELHO - _por Benfica
GERMANO - _por Benfica
ÁLVARO CARDOSO _por Sporting CP
HILARIO- _por Sporting CP
PEPE - _esp Real Madrid
Ricardo CARVALHO - _por FC Porto
JOÃO Domingos da Silva PINTO - _por FC Porto
ARTUR Correia - _por Benfica

Midfielders:
Mário COLUNA - _por Benfica
Luis FIGO - _esp Real Madrid
Paulo FUTRE - _por FC Porto
Rui COSTA - _ita Fiorentina
DECO - _esp F.C. Barcelona
Paulo SOUSA - _ita Juventus
Fernando CHALANA - _por Benfica

Attackers:
Cristiano RONALDO - _eng Manchester United
EUSÉBIO - _por Benfica
PAULETA - _fra Bordeaux
Fernando GOMES - _por FC Porto
Fernando PEYROTEO- _por Sporting CP
Jose ÁGUAS- _por Benfica

* * * * * * * * *
Reserves:

Goalkeepers:
Ví­tor BAÍA - _por FC Porto

Defenders:
VICENTE Lucas - _por Belenenses
Fernando COUTO - _esp FC Barcelona

Midfielders:
Rui BARROS - _ita Juventus
JOSÉ AUGUSTO - _por Benfica
José TRAVAÇOS _por Sporting CP

Strikers:
PINGA- _por FC Porto
Lucas MATATEU- _por Belenenses
António SIMÕES - _por Benfica

Best Ever XI:

------------------------BENTO-------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
-------------CARVALHO--------GERMANO---------------------
-ARTUR------------------------------------HILARIO--
--------------------------------------------------------
-------------COLUNA(c)------RUI COSTA -----------------
-----FIGO----------------------------------C.RONALDO------
------------------------------------------------------------
---------------EUSEBIO ----PEYROTEO----------------------

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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Jan 03, 23:20

Usually when it comes to Portuguese football, people tend to look only from the 60s onwards, due to Benfica's glorious campaign.

Before, even if questionable in direct comparision, true is there were legends that still perdure in people's memories. I am kind of suspicious here, but the 5 Violins as an example of that logic perfectly fits.

For the GK, it is common agreement in Portugal that Vitor Baia is not one of the two best keepers, despite being the player with more trophies. Usually that discussion centers mainly on Bento vs Damas, while Costa Pereira is kind of relegated here, not sure if about his quality or by the fact that he played in a team full of stars where he was not one of them (Benfica 60s).

Rui Barros is not one of the best ever 23 also. Travaços, Simões (4 wingers in the NT best ever should be Figo, C. Ronaldo and two of Futre, Chalana and Simões, I personally prefer like it is now but it is clearly questionable), José Augusto or the more recent João Pinto are far better choices. In my case, I only saw João Pinto (like probably you all) and he was just better, overall player quality speaking, of a player than Rui Barros.

Vicente, if to replace anyone, I would only go to Jorge Costa. But I would.
Pipi was a great player, but I didn't know that poll. It's funny that in Portugal he doesn't share that "god fame" of benfica 2nd ever.
Deco, does he really deserve to be in best ever? Seems clearly out of place, probably not just in quality but definetely in charisma. He was part of NT 2004 good campaign...but no more. Well, I am probably looking at the fact he is brasilian, not sure.

As a final note, please check Costa Pereira name.

Hope this helps guys
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Jan 22, 09:11

Good post da_ni boy.

Your research shows some good facts which may be used to further enhace this discussion, but there is also another side of it. Let me show it:

Before, specially before the 90s, Portugal only played against teams of the same league (better or worse, but still in the same league) and no way the NT could have the same winning ratio as it has nowadays where during any qualifyin campaign you play against the likes of Lietchstein, Malta and many of ex-former soviet countries... This can explain how Pauleta, who was a good striker, beats Eusebio in terms of goals record when we all know there was a major gap between them.

The Deco thing, he his linked to 50% of Portugal good campaigns, like you correctly said, but this one is clearly an optional and personal opinion, so I guess it comes to each one to make his mind. I chose charisma over quality here, but I perfectly understand your point and I do agree that when it comes to pure football quality as a player, he can claim his place in the team.

Also, about that poll, you have to admit (because you do know about Portuguese Football History) that the major part of the voting population are under 40 years old who vote online and stuff like that, I mean, the older people (the ones who saw football in the 50s, 60s...70s as well maybe) they're not voting in a representative way as the others do.
This easily explains how in the starting eleven you have only 2 players before the 80s - Eusebio and Coluna - because they are trully the most famous and iconic portuguese players before Figo and Ronaldo maybe.
And the best example here is Inacio in the starting eleven. Anyone who has seen a full match of Inacio as well as a full match of Hilario will understand what I'm speaking of. It's like comparing Stuart Pearce against Roberto Carlos. Both were good, but even if with different styles it's not that hard to say who was a best left side back out of the two.

I might be going against you in practically all areas, but honestly I think we have room to reach some mutual agreements here.

Thanks!
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby p1rha » 2010 Jan 22, 13:56

Ok, here's mine. Beat this team if u can!

-----------------------BENTO-------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------CARVALHO-----HUMBERTO--------------
--J. PINTO--------------------------------------ARTUR(?)--
--------------------------COLUNA-----------------------------
-----------------DECO--------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------RUI COSTA ------------------------
-------FIGO---------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------RONALDO------
-----------------------EUSEBIO -----------------------

About that discussion u were having, i think thta no matter how the teams were weaker, or all the problems we had like "Caso Saltilho" or anything like that, the relative sucess after 2000 it's undeniable. U could have players just has good as today's in the 70/80's, but they won nothing for the NT. Today Portugal is a certain :? presence in international tournaments, in the last 10 years we had some of the best players in the world.

Figo and Ronaldo have won the big prize, Rui Costa is regarded as a legend and was voted as the best nº10 in Italy a few times (now imagine the competition with the likes of Zidane or Totti), in my personal opinion (and UEFA's too) Deco and Carvalho were the best players in the world (in their positions) in 2004, Miguel was one of the world's best RB. We've been having terrific players in the last years, so those are the years i'll choose.

It's hard to leave P. Sousa, Futre, Couto, Chalana, Baia, Miguel and some others out but oh well that's life :P

EDIT: @ Brezza: José Augusto is there twice and there's no Vitor Damas (GK)
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Jan 25, 19:53

-----------------------DAMAS-------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------
-------------CARVALHO-----HUMBERTO--------------
--ARTUR--------------------------------------HILÁRIO--
--------------------------COLUNA-----------------------------
------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------TRAVAÇOS----------------------
-------FIGO----------------------------------C. RONALDO-----------
--------------------EUSEBIO---------------------------------
-----------------------PEYROTEO -----------------------

I know I am suspicious here, eh eh.

Damas could be replaced by Bento.
R. Carvalho with Germano.
Travaços with Rui Costa, Deco or Chalana (3 wingers I know).
Peyroteo with Águas.

Apart from this 4 choices/swaps, I say this formation is quite possible the best eleven in terms of individual quality, per field position.
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby andykeikei » 2010 Jan 26, 19:59

Can Coluna really play at DM as you guys list him? Because I always think of him as a Bryan Robson/Scholes type of player. Yes they could defend, but what makes them so great is what they could do on the offensive end. However if you pair him with a AM like Rui Costa in midfield, his primary job would be covering for the gap his teammates left behind. Is it one of his strength? Because if its not, pairing him with Rui Costa would be quite similar to England pairing Gerrard and Lampard in the midfield, which worked really awful to be honest. (Although probably would still work really well in PES, I will give you that :lol: )
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Jan 28, 14:34

You are correct when, as a team, this would probably not be the best one since is clearly offensive minded, at least for nowadays patterns. And the best example is actually the one you give: Lampard and Gerrard, at their peek!!!!, didn't work out fine together. I remember that.

But this selection is maybe for the fun and, like I referred, to add the individual quality of the players and not the best team. Coluna is one of Portugal true greats but to fit him in as a 8 we would have to (or in my case I would have to) take out Travaços (left interior playing as 10) or Peyroteo (going Eusebio to 9) while summoning Paulo Sousa, who is the only *DM in this team and still not a mad dog chaser but a Pirlo like *DM as you all probably know.

Of course this is questionable (it really is) but I think both Travaços or Peyroteo were superior in terms of relative quality than Paulo Sousa, so I want to put the best 11 somehow. That's why I would love to fit in Chalana, even if it meant playing with 3 wingers, you see.
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby p1rha » 2010 Jan 28, 22:28

da_ni wrote:here's a thought: will bosingwa ever belong among this selection? he clearly has the value to play here, but is he as important to Portugal as where Virgílio in his days, João Pinto, Hilário, Veloso or Artur?


What about Miguel? Wasn't he more important to the NT than Bosingwa? Had he not got injured in the final against Greece and we might have had a diferent result...
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Dearmann » 2010 Feb 22, 09:49

Why don't I see Albano Pereira in even reserved list ?

Classical did Albano in very high states as if he is the best portuguese left-winger of all-time.

Also, Isn't Rogerio Pipi is the same level as Albano ? He scores a lot more than at least. Both of them born the same month and year. They also was equally caps 15 games while they had to compete together in the left-winger position of Portugal national team during the 1940s. This evident of caps numbers might tell us that they should be equal in level.

I am improving top 50 winger of all-time in xtratime.org. I juts would like to be sure Albano and Rogerio should be deserved or not.

Classical, May you provide states of Rogerio Pipi ?
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Feb 22, 10:44

Hi Dearmann:

I have my fair amount of toughts on this subject, let me share my point of view with you:

Portugal always had great winger, I take my chance when I say it is, by genetic and history, the position Portugal produces more outstanding players, as our only 2 golden ball winners portray: Figo and C. Ronaldo.

Starting from them, I quickly sum up a list of (probably) Portuguese best wingers:

Figo and C. Ronaldo, without having to explain much on these two...

Futre and Chalana, both were peek of their generations and showed magic like no others in relative comparision.

Simões and José Augusto, legendary wingers who deserve their place in history as they played at the highest level for years and years always with an immense quality of gameplaying

Albano and Jesus Correia were vital part of Portugal's dominant force of the 40/50s - Sporting and each one had its share of quality


Here you already have 8, Sérgio Conceição is also a good winger who didn't reach his peek at the NT despite being a very good player and a winner, he did some great seasons at Porto and Lazio.

Rogério Pipi was a legend from Benfica, before Benfica reached the status of European monster , reached in the 60s onwards.
What happened in terms of NT between Rogério Pipi and Albano was that Pipi was the leading star of Benfica and fought for a place with Albano, who by his lack of size did not have the same status he had in SCP that in the NT.
It is questionable as which one was better from these two, but Rogério Pipi was the best player of Benfica before Benfica being a colussus, and that is not a small thing.

But, if to make a list of wingers I would put it like I've stated before:

1 - Figo and C. Ronaldo, best players of the world at their peek with different styles of play. Figo a leader surpassing himself with the NT shirt on, Ronaldo a crazy locomotive when setup in the correct tactic.

2- Chalana. Best of all in terms of virgin pure quality. He would be the 1st to be picked up in a street match. No wonder Figo still bows to him.

3- Futre. Another wild horse with a untamed talent. No one could get him, he kind of reminds Giggs in their early days.

These 4 have to be the first 4.

5- Simões, marvellous and gifted winger, terrible attack he did serving Torres and Eusébio.
6- José Augusto, same as Simões, but not that good in sheer technique and dribble (usually the most "flashy" skills in a winger) but essentially a very complete attacker, being a former striker.
7- Jesus Correia. Ahead of his time in the tactic and physical aspect of his game, being very competent in all areas. Prototype of what would be the modern winger.
8 - Here you can put Albano or Pipi. They should get , in terms of a quality overall number, the same one, like you state. It is fair in my opinion.


Does this help?
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Eric Cantona
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Dearmann » 2010 Feb 22, 16:30

Thanks you so much and May you visit my history room in xtratime.org ?

I got many states you did to consider selection and ranking of Portuguese player. Anyway, I'd prefer Futre than Chalana because Chalana was too disadvatnage helping team to do scores.

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=348

Chalana and Futre are not in top 50 wingers of all-time in my series. Futre was great enough but his consistency was failed due to injury while Chalana was disadvatage as I said ( I don't too much in this quality but at least winger should help team to do scores. Doesn't him ?
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Feb 22, 17:04

Well Chalana has talent to be number one, but at the age of 25 was already over.
Kind of a Portuguese George Best here... he doesn't have the career others got in numbers as he played less years.

About the setting up of goals, well it is very redundant that thinking line of yours, as the goal is always a team move ending, and limiting it to the only one who does the last pass and the one who scores it is against my way of logic.

Take Barcelona now, Zlatan didn't score for 2,5 months (10 weeks!!!) but Barcelona smashed all opponents troughout these games. And he didn't do that much of last-pass assistants but he was almost in the goals. Ironically the day he scores again, against Atletico Madrid, they loose...
This is a good example on how numbers don't mean that much at all, in fact, Zlatan was playing his best of the season so far in those goalless games.

Without career (and numbers) I've set up that list of wingers based on pure talent, on that basic and old logic of "he is better player" which not all the times means he is, in a whole season, whole career. But just "a player" Chalana and Futre were outstanding, as anyone could easily they were just....better than the others.

I am going to visit your history room, I hope to find new interesting material there

Thanks for the feedback
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Eric Cantona
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Feb 22, 19:57

By the way, Dearmann, you have some nice research material over there, nice work man.

I am reading very interesting stuff.
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Eric Cantona
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Dearmann » 2010 Feb 23, 06:24

Thanks but states in these forums help me a lot.

Almost forgot about this link : http://pfutebol.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=58

I have gotten it from Portuguese in former soccerpulse.com.

But it is for sure being biased from most of current fan voting for active players.
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Classical » 2010 Feb 23, 09:14

Yes, that is based on present votings and using a good critic sense, you have to disregard those in terms of quality of the information, just consider the quantity.

This because, and it is natural, nowadays online voters are usually young people with their memory shortly spawned for maximum last 20 years, and that makes dificult to have an accurate result out of those polls.

Nevertheless, they provide good info at least for the lists presentended. They can give you a good image of the player's universe.
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Eric Cantona
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby Fried » 2011 May 14, 20:38

Would swap Pauleta and Pinga, and replace the Brazilian Deco by Travaços.
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Re: Portugal All Stars

Postby credi » 2015 Feb 12, 00:48

Someone can create Frederico Rosa aka Frederico from Portugal 1986 ? please :)

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