Mesut Özil


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Mesut Özil

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 11, 14:48

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Last edited by jurgens on 2014 Aug 01, 19:57, edited 23 times in total.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Santi » 2016 Jan 26, 11:45

I don't get this argument, because he's not good at beating a man or shooting he can't have higher attack? don't incredibly limited strikers get high attack? his one-sided game should be through his passing stats being far in excess of his dribbling speed/shooting stats. from his passing alone he's ridiculously dangerous. chances created this season:

Ozil - 87
Yaya Toure - 30
Davild Silva - 38
Fabregas - 33

compared to Fabregas for instancey it doesn't really make sense he's lower in form, spa and level in attack when he completely outdoes him, and Cesc's game is just passing too. at least attack and form should be higher, like 86 and 4. aesthetically I think the high attack suits him, he's much more about the final ball than say Silva and less about build-up/moving around.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby jurgens » 2016 Jan 26, 20:54

don't incredibly limited strikers get high attack?


A striker is not an AMF. There is no comparison between how they play. Attacks value is position dependant and goals weight much higher than assists. Incredibly limited strikers like Icardi get high attack, because they are still incredibly dangerous, icardi who does next to nothing still managed to be top scorer in serie a last year. But look at his attack value to the prems top scorer last season, a much more complete striker who has multiple ways to hurt you.. hes a 95 because he is infinitely more dangerous. The more ways you have to hurt a team, the more dangerous you are. Suarez is a prime example, he can hurt you in a million ways, so his attack represents this.

Thats not to say if you only have one aspect to your game, you can't have an extremely high attack. But you have to be an absolute god in that regard, good example there would be Trezeguet.


Fabregas for instancey it doesn't really make sense he's lower in form, spa and level in attack when he completely outdoes him, and Cesc's game is just passing too.


Fabregas sets is still very influenced by his Barca times, and his game was so much more than passing, in fact passing was a failure on his part compared to the rest of the barca creators, but his offensive positioning was great and his shooting was quite deadly, that led to him being deployed as an SS, a player like that will naturally warrant a higher attack. Also, Fabregas like the whole of chelsea have been out of form, so a direct comparison to his current state isn't fair. But last season Cesc was great, 18 assists I think, so it makes sense that he still retains some of that value. But hes not lower in attack than Cesc, Cesc has 84 too. The form is a valid point and something that should probably change.



rom his passing alone he's ridiculously dangerous. chances created this season:


He really is not a ridiculously dangerous player though. He just isn't, the statistics are highly impressive, but they paint a different picture of him than the player whos on the pitch. You really have to be careful with statistics like that, because they can be very missleading. Much like this counts as an assit for Roberto Carlos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhYGtp26IRU Ozil passing to some guy and him having a wild shot on goal counts as a chance created.

he's much more about the final ball than say Silva and less about build-up/moving around.


Silva is one of those extremely dynamic players that can hurt you in so many ways, hes not so much an amf as he is a ss/amf/smf even at times cmf hybrid. His movement alone creates so much, his dribbling makes him near unplayable, his link up and dummy runs on top of his passing, when his current value was assigned nearly everything he touched was gold. The type of player silva was when this value was assigned, compared to the type of player Ozil was dangerous wise... there is a significant gap between the two. Not even to mention that you're talking about a player whos been at such a great level for years and years and years, probably the best overall player in the prem in the last 4 years? And a guy whos hasnt even been performing consistently for 4 months.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby BigStu » 2016 Jan 26, 22:11

Using Fabregas as a comparison 3 after he bossed at the Emirates and ozil did his usual disappearing act, and rob correct about his assist last season, even more impressive they all came in the first half of the season
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Chenghis.Khan » 2016 Jan 27, 02:24

jurgens wrote: His danger purely comes from his passing.


I appreciate your views on Özil but take issue with this statement. A pass may (almost) always be his end product but his greatest strength to me was always his off-ball movement. Like you say he likes to play the simple/easy pass but how many players can create as much danger for the opposition with such simple actions? Özil's quality is getting himself into a position/situation so advantegeous that the easy is pass enough.
I am not sure how to accurately translate this quality to PES and have a similar issue with Thomas Müller and maybe even Chicharito. Has to be the right combo of ATT, AGG & TW, right?

Also think Özil is remarkably clean & effortless in his passing execution. He's also great at getting off a clean pass in any kind of situation, doesn't care about body position or momentum, just adjusts to circumstances.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby jurgens » 2016 Jan 27, 02:45

Özil's quality is getting himself into a position/situation so advantegeous that the easy is pass enough.


This is very true, and it's something I wanted to adresses it with his cut back passes, but just didn't bother as it ends up going into the endless discuion about how to actualy replicate it. But now that you've brought it up.... like I was saying he makes alot of cut back passes, but that in itself is very unusal for a player in his position, hes obviously doing something right to constantly be in those positions to make the pass, that is an imporant aspect of his game and contributes to how he creates danger, he doesn't stretch defense or draw out much players though, he more so follows the play and gets himself into advanced positions. We've already got this highlighted it in his set with the atk/agr/tw/dummy runner...these are all at pretty good levels. I feel its already replicated, well to a degree.. you cant really replicate things like this without creating other problems, movement is the hardest thing to emulate in pes.
But you're right, saying it's his only way is an over generalization, but he has very little ways to hurt players outside of that, and I think you'd agree with me there... it's a shame he seems to have delcined so much physically, he was really an interesting player when he joined madrid with very good agi/acc/ts and da/ds... but has basically just become the stereotype of his role since then.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby scara » 2016 Jan 27, 22:20

well shouldn't he have the cut-back pass card?

Also think Özil is remarkably clean & effortless in his passing execution. He's also great at getting off a clean pass in any kind of situation, doesn't care about body position or momentum, just adjusts to circumstances.


This is how the passing stat works in PES in my experience so maybe he could get slightly high SPA (+1/2), he consistently plays brilliant passes at awkward angles to his body posture. One pass comes to mind is vs Olympiacos away, he gets away from his marker for a second and plays a perfect pass to Ramsey at a right angle to the direction he's facing which leads to the first goal. He's done several like that to Walcott this season.

Worth noting the movement ahead of him this season isn't great either, except when Walcott played up-front briefly... and that was a brilliant combo. He's still carving out so many chances despite Giroud upfront, and Walcott/Chamberlain in woeful form.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby zebastian » 2016 Feb 13, 11:54

I would give Özil both sides. If he played on sides, some times on left for Arsenal.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Epsi » 2016 Feb 15, 13:05

Consdering the very low form value, I would have his attack to be a tad higher than this, like his former 86 he used to have.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Brahms » 2016 Feb 15, 20:06

i'm not sure about that, it shouldn't feel right having him in the same level of silva or so near of hazard taking into account the huge difference between these players
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby devine » 2016 Feb 29, 19:38

He's earned 4+ form surely, very consistent since January of last year. He can disappear at times (vs Leicester recently he sucked), but most of that is exaggerated because Arsenal are a joke this season

i'm not sure about that, it shouldn't feel right having him in the same level of silva or so near of hazard taking into account the huge difference between these players


Hazard plays in a broken team and looks awful this season. Ozil's playing in an injury-ridden side with no good passing midfielder to give him the ball (Ramsey, Coquelin and Flamini...), out-of-form wingers and a striker that doesn't suit him at all. And he's still doing so much - the game vs Barcelona is pretty telling: Ozil stranded for most of the game yet dangerous when he does get - iirc 3 good chances to score and Ozil was involved in all of them. If he didn't play in such a circus side everything would be different.

I think he should be 86 attack, he just gets so much done in the final-third when he has the chance with good movement to find a pocket of space in the box alongside all his clever ground passes and little lobs.

Also I think his control is better than 93, some of the directional traps are unreal. eg https://streamable.com/awef over the shoulder at a very awkward angle, flicks it perfectly towards goal so he can continue the move.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby jurgens » 2016 May 18, 17:29

I keep thinking, maybe I'm being harsh on ozil, maybe hes playing in a differnt manner when I'm not watching him, maybe hes making very differnt type of passes.... well, someone just made a video of everyone of his recrod breaking key passes https://vimeo.com/166756906

That record is insane, but watching the video, it just backs up everything thats been talked about, all the way back to his madrid times... he doesn't really play those high spa balls, everything is very simple, his lpa is where he shows real ability and inventivness. These "key passes" are passes that result in a shot, but when you watch the video, a huge amount of them aren't even chanes, just arsenal players shooting from ludicrous posistion, some are absolutely laughable... crazy that they are dubbed "key passes", a very good example of why statistics need to be take with a grain of salt. That aside though, we do have to acknowledge the fact that he is always there playing these simple passes, be it in the middle or through the wings... thats really what hes doing thats a consistently great part of his game. Maybe we do need to consider what sort of level he should be on for teamwork.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Phil » 2016 May 19, 00:50

I think the one thing that sets Ozil apart from anybody else is his manipulation of space, he is insanely good at not just finding space, but putting himself in areas in the pitch that directly lead to dangerous opportunities for his team. In this sense, he is unique and there is probably nobody better when it comes to these types of movements and reading of the game.

That said, I'm not sure he is the type of player to warrant really high TW. Although he is clearly supportive, he is not an omnipresent component of the team, constantly wanting to be on the ball and following the play like a Xavi, or even a Silva. He is not the type of player to drop deep looking for the ball, instead he prefers to move laterally across the pitch and in the final third trying to exploit the space. As I've said though, his manipulation of space is truly unique and he is constantly moving unselfishly to add balance to the attack and create space, knowing when to drop deep or go long, moving into spaces vacated by others to create passing and shooting lanes for others. I think if he has too high TW it might make him too much of a build up player too though? I mean, he is incredibly supportive, but maybe in a way that isn't within the constricts of the PES TW stat? Not sure.

Although I feel he probably deserves even higher attack rather than anything else. The things that are most apparent about his game are intelligence and effectiveness (even if he is mainly only effective in creating chances), as has been mentioned, he is a very good, but not elite level passer, not great physically or mentally, not a great shooter or direct with his dribbling etc. yet he is still so effective, mainly because of his movement, timing and consistently well weighted passes. I personally would have his attack on 86 too, considering his limitations in other areas are already highlighted and I'm not sure there is any other way to replicate his strengths as a player.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby ReljaBasara96 » 2016 May 24, 13:50

His TW is overrated in my opinion too. Not just that he isn't the playmaker and a player who is constantly on the ball, he's sometimes way too passive. Imagine how good he would be with more desire to play. Personally, i don't see him as a world class player, even though his abilities are world class. He is oftenly ''invisible'' in matches with high tempo, he's doing nothing defensively, he's not the one who would take the ball and create something, he's basically walking around, searching for a good position and waiting for the ball so he can give the key pass, and he can be useless in the counter attacks, I wouldn't tolerate him as a manager, even though he's a genius. In modern football there are lot of player with similar abilities and a lot more desire to play and do something, for instance, Kevin de Bruyne. He's overrated, he's buying attention and the praises with his assists from set pieces and against Norwich and WBA (random teams), but you obviously can't rely on him as a key player, and the one who can bring the glory. The unfinished product with amazing amazing talent. Selling Ozil for a big amount of money and buying a modern AMF of a 21st century would be a top notch deal for Arsenal.
Last edited by ReljaBasara96 on 2017 Feb 17, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Brahms » 2016 Jun 04, 00:50

So, what to do with this guy? i personally find this set alright, maybe higher form, but i also find your views of ATT and TW are great. I havent upgraded his attack before cause i dont find he has that great impact everyone seems to see (personally santi has a mayor role in the team as it was demonstrated by the low performs of the team without him) but maybe im a little biased against him.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Phil » 2016 Jun 08, 01:20

That TS value always seemed suspect to me, the only problem is I can't think off the top of my head many instances where he has been beaten for pace as he rarely sprints. I do seem to recall him not looking quite this fast over distance though, and he does seem to have slowed down since his younger days too, so maybe TS could be lowered to something like high green or low yellow, if for nothing else but his style these days.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Chenghis.Khan » 2016 Jul 07, 08:02

jurgens wrote:he is always there playing these simple passes, be it in the middle or through the wings... thats really what hes doing thats a consistently great part of his game. Maybe we do need to consider what sort of level he should be on for teamwork.


Spot on. This is the essence of Özil to me. I agree with your conclusion, too. Puzzled by his TW and also his STA & DEF.
Özil is absolutely inconsistent in applying energy levels to different tasks. Some games he runs a lot, even showing defensive sprints but other games he just ghosts around.

Phil wrote: I think if he has too high TW it might make him too much of a build up player too though?


Not if his AGG is high enough. With high AGG he will drift around the attacking third, looking for space.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby SpartakRW » 2016 Sep 09, 01:23

Add WF, remove SS, side: B => L.
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Ramindbroken » 2016 Sep 09, 14:27

He never played WF...
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Brahms » 2016 Sep 10, 01:29

nor he maintains only in the left side
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Re: Mesut Özil

Postby Frans » 2016 Sep 10, 09:58

Why's he still have bad form? Probably Arsenal's most consistent performer for almost 2 years, can't really think of anyone better... alongside Kos and Monreal. Also excellent for Germany. First game back this season and he's already producing magic.

Though after I wrote that he has an atrocious game today ;d

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