Kylian Mbappé


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Kylian Mbappé

Postby PES Stats Database » 2017 Feb 21, 20:42

Full Name: Kylian Mbappé Lottin
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby VUKDS » 2018 Oct 08, 14:12

https://youtu.be/JyAa4aDa1tU
His close control seemed very sloppy in the game against Lyon. On the other side, he's demonstrated his Response&Agg combo in the various situations, as usual.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Moysís » 2018 Oct 08, 14:25

It's really unbelievable how high Lyon defence were against such attacking arsenal.. they lost battle alone with themselves with such kind of defense..
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Moysís » 2018 Oct 08, 14:42

VUKDS wrote:His close control seemed very sloppy in the game against Lyon.


He's too quick when take the ball at feet and it's very hard under that speed keep close and precise ball control.. he is very direct in play and no waiting for anyone just looking on what faster way how could eliminate opponent. So it is not so easy in these situation keep concentration on the ball every time.. but it is obviously that he has problem with trapping and technique in general..
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2018 Oct 25, 22:58

Tough game against Napoli. His opponents are starting to understand his dribbling patterns. He needs to be more unpredictable against opponents such as Napoli or Liverpool.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Nov 03, 13:04

Everyone knew it was impossible. Then came along a fool who didn't know it, and he did it.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby R9style » 2018 Nov 04, 14:18

Ocrin wrote:https://streamable.com/3e86y


Dude, his sense of placment is master class. Just to much for a players of his age.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2018 Dec 12, 19:32

77 finishing seems a bit harsh. I'd give him 80. His goal against Lyon and the one against Belgrade yesterday (Impressive shot between the keeper's legs) illustrate a yellow value in my opinion.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Dec 13, 17:10

Honestly, most of his games are a testament of how poor his shot placement is. Thing is, his shots have little to no placement intentions, they're consistently powerful, but he just bangs the ball towards the goal, not trying to reach difficult spots, and misses "easy" chances fairly often because of poor SA.

77 SA is the best way of highlighting that. Don't let the one he scores fool you, he's actually a very inconsistent shooter.

I've also been thinking about the comments on his DS, I've been thinking about other comments about that stats from all over the forum, and I think, like jurgens had suggeste in the first place, that his DS should be lower.
DS is about using speed on the ball to break through defences. Mbappé is crazy fast when he has space, but on the ball, in tight spaces, with defenders close? I don't really see it. I've been trying to keep an eye on it and I just don't see it.
Everyone knew it was impossible. Then came along a fool who didn't know it, and he did it.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2018 Dec 27, 22:45

Ocrin wrote:Honestly, most of his games are a testament of how poor his shot placement is. Thing is, his shots have little to no placement intentions, they're consistently powerful, but he just bangs the ball towards the goal, not trying to reach difficult spots, and misses "easy" chances fairly often because of poor SA.

77 SA is the best way of highlighting that. Don't let the one he scores fool you, he's actually a very inconsistent shooter.

I've also been thinking about the comments on his DS, I've been thinking about other comments about that stats from all over the forum, and I think, like jurgens had suggeste in the first place, that his DS should be lower.
DS is about using speed on the ball to break through defences. Mbappé is crazy fast when he has space, but on the ball, in tight spaces, with defenders close? I don't really see it. I've been trying to keep an eye on it and I just don't see it.


I watched some highlights and i think you have a point about the shot accuracy.
But to think that DS has anything to do with being on the ball in tight spaces in a misinterpretation of the stat. DS is only about the amount of speed that is maintained while on the ball. The higher the stat, the better the player retain his natural speed value. Mbappe doesn't lose much speed on the ball, so the value of 86 is deserved and can even go higher in my opinion.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Dec 27, 22:52

Kim wrote:
Ocrin wrote:Honestly, most of his games are a testament of how poor his shot placement is. Thing is, his shots have little to no placement intentions, they're consistently powerful, but he just bangs the ball towards the goal, not trying to reach difficult spots, and misses "easy" chances fairly often because of poor SA.

77 SA is the best way of highlighting that. Don't let the one he scores fool you, he's actually a very inconsistent shooter.

I've also been thinking about the comments on his DS, I've been thinking about other comments about that stats from all over the forum, and I think, like jurgens had suggeste in the first place, that his DS should be lower.
DS is about using speed on the ball to break through defences. Mbappé is crazy fast when he has space, but on the ball, in tight spaces, with defenders close? I don't really see it. I've been trying to keep an eye on it and I just don't see it.


I watched some highlights and i think you have a point about the shot accuracy.
But to think that DS has anything to do with being on the ball in tight spaces in a misinterpretation of the stat. DS is only about the amount of speed that is maintained while on the ball. The higher the stat, the better the player retain his natural speed value. Mbappe doesn't lose much speed on the ball, so the value of 86 is deserved and can even go higher in my opinion.


What I meant is that he tends to lower his speed a lot when he doesn't have space. He won't use DS to create space for himself, mostly tricks (replicated with cards) and dribbling (replicated with averagely good DA). His TS is enough to make him a speed demon when he's not pressured, high ds would just make him a top-class speed dribbler, which he isn't.

My point is basically the same that has been raised and discussed previously really.
Everyone knew it was impossible. Then came along a fool who didn't know it, and he did it.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2018 Dec 28, 13:18

Ocrin wrote:What I meant is that he tends to lower his speed a lot when he doesn't have space. He won't use DS to create space for himself, mostly tricks (replicated with cards) and dribbling (replicated with averagely good DA). His TS is enough to make him a speed demon when he's not pressured, high ds would just make him a top-class speed dribbler, which he isn't.

My point is basically the same that has been raised and discussed previously really.


What you are describing is a matter of playing style and can be replicated by giving him "Trickster" as his only dribbling AI style. Lowering his DS would forbid him of making those keys runs he only makes when he has space. Like the one in world cup against Argentina.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby JeffVR98 » 2018 Dec 28, 14:34

Kim wrote:What you are describing is a matter of playing style and can be replicated by giving him "Trickster" as his only dribbling AI style. Lowering his DS would forbid him of making those keys runs he only makes when he has space. Like the one in world cup against Argentina.


Actually every player with space would run fast in game, even one with 75 DS.

All this DS revolution that has been undergoing in the forum has been a great step forward to get realism, you only have to look Salah and Cristiano's sets.

In old gen games, by some reason TS boost DS, i don't why, it can an error in game code or something, but even a player like Mbappe with 96 TS can be a fucking threat making long runnings like the one against Argentina, i remember that play, he was running with so much free space, been chase by slow defenders and he was using what we call in pes "the dash dribble", in this kind of dribble you don't need a great ball control and this dribble it takes advantage of all this TS/DS thing, Mbappe DS/TS combo is perfect and it should remain like, because if we upgrade his DS to high yellows he would look like a player that he isn't.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2018 Dec 28, 18:11

JeffVR98 wrote:
Kim wrote:What you are describing is a matter of playing style and can be replicated by giving him "Trickster" as his only dribbling AI style. Lowering his DS would forbid him of making those keys runs he only makes when he has space. Like the one in world cup against Argentina.


Actually every player with space would run fast in game, even one with 75 DS.

All this DS revolution that has been undergoing in the forum has been a great step forward to get realism, you only have to look Salah and Cristiano's sets.

In old gen games, by some reason TS boost DS, i don't why, it can an error in game code or something, but even a player like Mbappe with 96 TS can be a fucking threat making long runnings like the one against Argentina, i remember that play, he was running with so much free space, been chase by slow defenders and he was using what we call in pes "the dash dribble", in this kind of dribble you don't need a great ball control and this dribble it takes advantage of all this TS/DS thing, Mbappe DS/TS combo is perfect and it should remain like, because if we upgrade his DS to high yellows he would look like a player that he isn't.


I did not notice anything unusual with Dribble Speed on old gen. The accepted definition for years is that Dribble Speed it dictate how fast is the player with the ball relative to it's Top Speed. The player running with the ball is not gonna get a boost because he has 30 meters of free spaces, or a nerf because Jaap Stam is on a collision course with him.
Mods started giving extremes values as a way to simulate particular playing styles, to make players "recognizable" while trying to maintain a semblance of realism. I understand the reasons, i don't necessarily agree with the values.

TS boost DS because DS is not an independant stat. The DS value is linked to the TS one.
If a player has 80 Top Speed and 99 Dribble Speed, he will lose no speed while running with the ball. He will run like a 80 TS value player on and off the ball.
97 Top Speed and 95 Dribble Speed means the player is extremely fast overall, but lose a bit of speed of the ball. Overall, the 97 TS - 95 DS combo results in a faster player than the 80 TS - 99 DS combo. Way faster.

The discussion should revolve around the concept: How much speed Mbappe lose while on the ball ? This set makes him a fair amount faster without the ball. Not a bad thing per-se but an increase might be on the cards if he does more blistering runs on the ball. Not saying that huge changes are necessary, but that slight chances are possible. We have room to adjust.
The values i'd have him on are:

Attack: 92
Dribble Speed: 88
Shot Accuracy: 78
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2019 Jan 01, 16:12

I recently watched a video about Mbappe's margin of progression, the video highlights precise situations and patterns coming from recent games, from Ligue 1, Champion's League and national team, and one thing that came to light was his attacking awareness and decision making isn't up to par with the way we rate him on that precise aspect.

I had doubts since i saw Mbappe making good decisions on the ball in some high-level games, but after watching this it became clear to me that he's not red-tier in terms of attack and that his decision making and awareness is not on the phenomenal level that has been praised on this same topic not so long ago.

The explainations are in french so for non-french speakers, i'm gonna give a translation mixed with my own analysis of the main points and situations that highlight this discrepancy between his rating and his actual attacking awareness and decision making.




0:30:
Overlap by Juan Bernat on his left, Di Maria's run near the center. The pass to Di Maria is difficult but the one to Bernat would be easy. Mbappe choose to shoot knowing he has three defenders right in front of him able to block the shot.

1:00:
Instead of playing an obvious one-two with Meunier, Mbappe keeps the ball and is dispossessed.

1:37:
He sees Di Maria overlapping on the left, instead of slowing down to make the defender focus on him in order to give Di Maria space and pass him the ball, he choose to run straight ahead while punting the ball forward and is easily dispossessed.

2:13:
Dribble that results in him being surrounded by four players, instead of using Draxler for a one-two, he continues his dribble and is logically dispossessed.

2:30:
Classic bad decision making; A defender behind him, one in front of him, a solution on the right, he charges forward straight into the opposing player and lose the ball.

2:39:
Five defenders surrounding him, he doesn't see or understand the fact that the opposing defense is now in place, doesn't see the possibility of a back pass to Rabiot either to aleviate the pressure on him and stretch the defense later, he choose to try to dribble everyone and lose the ball quickly.

3:00:
Classic situation, with solutions around him and the defense in place. Choose to dribble instead of pass, lose the ball.

3:13:
Doesn't take the info on his teammates behind him and it ends with him losing the ball.

3:30:
Take the info on his teammates runs and then start his dribble with his head low, so no further information taking. He doesn't pass to Diaby or Neymar, alone in front of the keeper and attempts a shot that ends in the crowd.

4:16:
This one is well known. It's him trying to dribble Milner on stoppage time, in front of his own box, against Liverpool. It results in Klopp's side getting the ball back and scoring the winner.

4:34:
Again in front of his box, he's pressured on his right and left but can pass the ball back to his center back. He choose to think he can carve his way on the midfield with his speed and lose the ball, resulting in a dangerous situation. He tracks back to win the ball, quickly pass it forward, get it back, is again pressured in the midfield. Instead of passing to Kanté he turns around, choosing the individual solution and lose the ball.

5:40:
The high-level CBs he's playing against (De Ligt, Koulibaly, etc) are anticipating his speed. Mbappe doesn't adapt to that, try running forward anyways but De Ligt get the ball back knowing in advance that Mbappe is gonna simply run foward.

5:55:
Same thing, we can very well see that the CBs are maintaining a "safety distance" a space between them and Mbappe, in order not to get passed because of his speed. It create space for a pass to Neymar or Di Maria on his left side. Actually Di Maria is on a pretty good run. But Mbappe continue to run forward, fumbles his dribble and lose the ball.

6:20:
When stopped, Mbappe has a tendancy to resume his dribble by going on his right, with the exterior of his right foot. This has been noticed by his opponents. In this case the opposing team commits two defenders on him. Instead of passing the ball back to make one of those defenders focus on the ball carrier, or trying another more unpredictable dribble, he goes ahead with this "classic" dribble and is dispossessed.

6:40:
Same thing than before. Two defenders on him expecting his classic dribble. Di Maria is a solution. He choose to force his way using the same old dribble and fails.

6:53:
In Champion's League against Napoli it's even less likely to succeed. Looks like the opponent has been instructed that Mbappe love doing this and stops him effortlessly.

7:05:
By defending on his right flank, the defenders leave him plenty of space to cut inside if he stills wants to dribble but he seems reluctant of doing it and again, try overconfidently to force his way with his classic dribble.

9:35:
His classic dribble is extremely predictable and his reluctance to go inside pretty much expected, so Ancelotti commits two defenders on his right side. His left foot accuracy is subpar but he tries to use it anyways and the pass is failed.


The rest of the video talks about his passing, left foot accuracy, finishing, points that i will not cover here since those attributes of his play are well translated into his current set.

It is now quite obvious that Mbappe has strong tendancies to dribble and run when the situation doesn't call for it, and to perform the same predictable dribbles, to make wrong decisions when given the choice between dribbling, passing, keeping the ball, etc.
It's a weakness that might stem from overconfidence on his physical abilities, his acceleration and speed. Tuchel is the right manager to instill a better mindset in him and mold him into a more selfless player so i doubt those will still remain his weakness in two or three years, but for now, his 96 attack value is not representative of his decision making abilities on offensive phases and his attacking awareness. A high-yellow or low-orange attacking value would be more fitting to his current abilities.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby pcrooce » 2019 Jan 12, 17:43

his goal today vs Amiens

https://streamable.com/030vs
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Adrien » 2019 Feb 17, 11:58

Goals scored at the age of 20 in UCL:

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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Ocrin » 2019 Feb 24, 03:18

Today's game against Nimes was a testament of how he should indeed be a very high attack, shit SA player. Got a fuckload of chances, bottled so many, still scored two in the end.
The day his SA becomes really good, he'll be unstoppable.
Everyone knew it was impossible. Then came along a fool who didn't know it, and he did it.
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Adrien » 2019 Feb 24, 12:40

When he'll improve his technical weakness time to time and his lack of accuracy in his shots, he'll be for sure the best player in the world.

By the way he reached another record, the youngest player ever in Ligue1 to reach 50 goals.

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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby biondi » 2019 Mar 03, 12:53

so he reached 97 speed (that is still the highest speed players managed to reach), I wonder if he can surpass it
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Re: Kylian Mbappé

Postby Kim » 2019 Mar 07, 17:56

I don't know what to think of this. Bad play after bad play, after bad play. Not only flawed decision making but obvious technical mistakes, dribbling fumbles, that should not happen at this level.

(Disable the sound before playing the video, or set it to minimum. Horrendous high-pitched music.)

https://twitter.com/SSamax/status/1103709566074871813

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