Great job as always, Vinnie.
I will try to resume a things and write a my point of view. As I've said, I was quite influenced by a fame which has been made about Milutinovic here and by the current set. Also, I have to say that I am stuck with time. I need to study for my exams so I can not focus a hundred percent on every possible detail but I'll try to fix it.
by the way VUKDS, on the first link you sent me at the reprezentacija website for the list of national team apperances there is a KG,KSP, PG, and SP before each match, what do these abbreviations stand for?
PU, KG, KSP and SP is NT related.
''PU'' - friendly
''KG'' - no idea. only 5 games of that type.
''KSP'' - qualifications for the world cup
''SP'' - world cup
GP and GS is club related. GP is ,,game played'' and GS ,,goal scored''. It's not said whether they are mentioning only league games, or they are counting cup + international games in it. You've got his Partizan statistics in the spoiler:
- Spoiler: show
- 1952/1953 season - from 22 Partizan's league games, he's played 11 and scored 6 goals
1953/1954 season - Partizan has played 26 league games and scored 77 goals. Milutinovic was involved in 24 of them and he's scored 14 goals
1954/1955 season - Partizan: 26 games and 55 goals. Milutinovic: 11 games and 9 goals.
1955/1956 season - Partizan: 26 games and 65 goals. Milutinovic: 20 games and 13 goals.
1956/1957 season - Partizan: 26 games and 51 goal. Milutinovic: 17 games and 7 goals
We can see that Partizan was the most effective at seasons in which Milutinovic was the most involved. We are talking about 53/54 and 55/56. Later I am going to check the other Ptz top players from that period and compare their statistics for the mentioned seasons and in general.
Statistics for his complete career at Partizan:
- Spoiler: show
- Competition - GP - GS
International (perhaps international friendlies??) 50 49
Champions Cup 4 8
Yugoslavia cup10 10
Friendly for veterans 1 0
Friendly games 61 111
League games 87 53
Total 213 231
Total without friendlies 152 120
Goals per game: 0.79
- Spoiler: show
- 33 games, 10 goals
0.30 per game
Okay, now we are only gonna use his team mates from 52/53 season 'cause that was a core for the following seasons. We are talking about Bobek, Zebec and Valok. They are not an identical type of players but I am trying to compare their goal influence.
- Spoiler: show
- Partizan statistic by season
1956-57 (Partizan total - 26&51. Milutinovic - 17&7) 15 3
1955-56(Partizan total - 26&65. Milutinovic - 20&13) 17 9
1954-55(Partizan total - 26&55. Milutinovic - 11&9) 18 16
1953-54(Partizan total - 26&77. Milutinovic - 24&14) 23 21
1952-53(Milutinovic: 11&6) 12 7
International 106 83
Champions Cup 4 1
Yugoslavian cup 37 48
Veteran friendly 1 0
Friendly games 134 175
League games 195 118
Middle European Cup 1 0
Total 478 425
Total statistics without friendlies - 343&250
Goals per game: 0.73
Goals per game:
- Spoiler: show
- Partizan statistic by season:
1956-57(Partizan total - 26&51. Milutinovic - 17&7) 18 8
1955-56(Partizan total - 26&65. Milutinovic - 20&13) 20 0
1954-55(Partizan total - 26&55. Milutinovic - 11&9) 15 1
1953-54(Partizan total - 26&77. Milutinovic - 24&14) 23 15
1952-53(Milutinovic: 11&6) 20 5
Internation: 59 30
Champions cupal 4 0
Yugoslavian cup 15 11
Friendly games 59 43
League games 128 36
Middle European cup 5 0
Total 270 120
Without friendlies: 211&77
Goal per game: 0.36
65 games & 11 goals
Goal per game: 0.17
Valok, although he wasn't on their level:
- Spoiler: show
- Partizan statistics by season:
1956-57(Partizan total - 26&51. Milutinovic - 17&7) 22 10
1955-56(Partizan total - 26&65. Milutinovic - 20&13) 18 4
1954-55(Partizan total - 26&55. Milutinovic - 11&9) 19 8
1953-54(Partizan total - 26&77. Milutinovic - 24&14) 7 3
1952-53(Milutinovic: 11&6) 16 15
Dunavian cup 1 0
International 83 66
Champions cup 3 0
Yugoslavian cup 30 35
Veteran friendly 1 4
Friendly games 180 207
League games 167 97
Middle European cup 5 2
Total 470 411
Without friendlies: 289&200
Goal per game: 0.69
Goal per game: 0.33
It seems that 53/54 season wasn't all on him. Bobek and Zebec had a better statistic.
- Spoiler: show
- Partizan in total: 77 goals.
Milutinovic - 24 games and 14 goals ; 0.58 per game
Bobek - 23&21 ; 0.91 per game
Zebec - 23&15 ; 0.65 per game
These three players have scored 50 goals of team's 77. Statistically, we are coming to conclusion that Milutinovic had the worst statistic of them players, so he certainly wasn't n1 in the team back then.
It's a different story with 55/56 season. According to this, Zebec did nothing at all and Bobek was a bit worse than usual. Although he didn't have a crazy statistic like Bobek's in 53/54, he was the best of these three players.
- Spoiler: show
- Partizan in total: 65 goals.
Milutinovic - 20&13 ; 0.65 per game
Bobek - 17&9 ; 0.53 per game - in his worst season, he's had a better statistic than Milutinovic's in 53/54
Zebec - 20&0 ; /
All in all, judging be the statistics, Milutinovic had the best goal per game ratio and he has played the least games of mentioned players. However, he was some kind of leader only in the one season, when Bobek got older. Even Zebec, guy who was rotating from position to the position for the complete career, was ahead Milutinovic at Milos's second best season.
I need to say that he did not score any goal in derby games against Red Star. In his period, Partizan took only 2 cups and none of league trophies but they were a winning against Red Star brutally at that time period. But yet, Milos did not score any goal. I can say for sure that he's had a one assist at the ''7-1 derby''and commentator has mentioned that he was a best player in one of them.
At the national team, he's had the second best statistics of the mentioned players(Bobek was a n1) but as we've saw, Milutinovic wasn't making such a big impact. He did not have so many balls and Vinnie has already said some things about his style of play back then.
Now I am going to regroup the videos based on the mentioned videos. I've checked the numbers and everything, it's based on the situations cut by Moysis, Vinnie and me.
Dribbling situations&agility&decisions making:
- Spoiler: show
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FiVrOFZZUg&feature=youtu.be&t=271 nutmeg. it didn't come from the possession, pure control and agility. he's wanted to make first touch with the chest but the ball went on side. lb was following him and milutinovic demonstrated a move that every other winger would have done. all in all, even at this example we can see some things, even this could show us that he was rather some kind of athletic winger than a player who would is doing something on the pure control and agility.
decent example of his acc, although it wasn't anything impressive. you've already posted an examples of red acc. btw, this wasn't a huge space to run across
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGNTGG ... tu.be&t=79 here we could see a decent close control. it's not a top notch but it looks nice, although defensive players don't look quite good. perhaps he's made a step or two more than he was supposed to but he's saved a ball in the dangerous area and passed it to his team mate. also he isn't using an agility or DS here, nor he is planning to shot on goal. it's like he was just playing with the ball here, without being such a productive. i don't think that we could see things like this one regularly from the other top players of that time. there were a few more situations in which he was keeping the ball longer than he should. at the nt games, it wasn't such a productive. he could do a dribbling in the place and then just pass the ball to the team mate, without any concrete plan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVF3DclhsQw&t=2m33s we could be making comments on the pitch quality and the type of ball but look at this first touch. he is slowing the action down and then, like you've said, we can see what type of agility did he have. it's nothing spectacular really. vinnie's analyzed this situations quite good -
looks like him here, a bit cumbersome on the turn, and doesn't do well at all when trying to beat the fullback while keeping the ball close- the ball gets quite away from him and he looks quite stiff and clubfooted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVF3DclhsQw&t=4m28s two players in front of him. he is slowing down with the ball and unsuccessfully trying to pass the ball. . he is again slowing it down and this is another example which is telling us something about his abilities. although he is being too far from the goal and perhaps in the difficult position, great dribbler and a direct player wouldn't have reacted like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVF3DclhsQw&t=10m21s he is attracting a two players and saving the ball for the team mate but again he is not being concrete. another situation in which he is not demonstrating any crazy abilities, even contrary. we could saw bobek, zebec and a few more players doing something with the ball
but milutinovic, like it's been said, he is more making the trouble by his running into the space, positioning, shooting, instead of doing something with the ball in his feets. based on the videos we've find, it's sure that he is able to make some nice dribbles, in the space mostly, but when he is placed on the goal and when he needs to think quickly, he seems wasteful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVF3DclhsQw&t=11m58s another similar situation. first we need to mention his positioning, which is saying a lot. it certainly wasn't productive, he wasn't focused on goal, he was positioned as a sideback and it's like he was planning to cross since the beginning. really, when he's got a little space or when he's on the side, playing against an organized opponent, it looks like he isn't planning to dribble, like he is planning to pass the ball since he see that it's a tough position. who knows, perhaps even the Yugoslavian league level affected on him a bit. perhaps he was dealing quite well with the home league sb's in situations like this one.
all in all, based on this example we could conclude that he was poorly positioned since the start. even if we forget about this and take the other situations into account, he certainly doesn't look like someone with who can harm you with the dribbling and think fast in the difficult situations. his agility definitely doesn't look good and his DS is questionable. on the other side, DA is certainly not a top class but I have some doubts about it. i have an impression that he is better than 84, and i am not only influenced by Serbian written sources which were describing as a top class dribbler.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLaOthNwX3k&t=7m03s you are right, that was him. he was n7 in this game. [spoiler]
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/ro ... index.html
typical milutinovic, he exploits these pass and go situations whenever he could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcFCiSG ... tu.be&t=49 trying to overrun a player with the acc but being destroyed in the duel(tbh, he was accelerating, brazilian defender is tough in duel and this was a logical)
https://youtu.be/3D_CuY-Og9Q?t=646 really good acc. what would you rate him based on this? looks like an orange to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D_CuY- ... u.be&t=829 nice balance, again trying to overrun a player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYe9aO5 ... tu.be&t=50 he is in the box, unmarked at the beggining. nice first touch with the chest, he slightly moves the ball on the side and scoring the goal. this is one of the rare examples when his technical abilities were a productive, although this is another example of pure close control on the small space, in the dangerous position. there are a more examples of his pure DA than his DA combined with Agility and DS.
looks like he wasn't running with the ball while keeping the quality control. he was mostly kicking the ball and running for it, when being far of the goal. on the other side, like i've said, there are a few examples of a decent DA in the tight positions.
- Spoiler: show
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vP_hptZVoc&feature=youtu.be&t=33 he was unmarked here. connecting with the cross and shooting a volley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vP_hpt ... tu.be&t=73 disallowed goal. idk if it was due an offside or a foul. all in all, he is again winning the goal situation by his movement and showing a nice toughness in duel, despite the fact that defender is not pressuring him serious(looks like that guy has tried to win the fould here)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-wRUct ... tu.be&t=25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYe9aO5 ... tu.be&t=50 first goal that doesn't have a pure movement elements inside of it. he is using his technical abilities a bit on here
I think I've crop the most important details.
All in all, we have a player who was making the danger mostly with the movement into the space. He certainly did not have this good DA+DS+AGI combo. His DA is the best of these three elements, IMO. He was often slowing the game, like he was used on a slower tempo. Sometimes he was too stuck on the wing, it's like he wasn't too confident to make an impact, to try the dribble, etc. On the other side, his dribbling ability wasn't that impressive. It was based on the dribbling into the space and we need to say that he was trying to win the players with his acc whenever he could.
Small part of Vinnie's comment, which is very good description of this player -
A player worthy of this set would never be second fiddle in any team, or never have less than the most impact on a team he plays for. This set makes one of the greatest dribblers of all time, probably the best winger of all time, and it seems what little footage is available shows him as pretty far from that. He's a good winger, but more about scoring and poaching it seems than making a difference on the ball with dribbling, and it seems like he's quite far in a lot of areas from what this set describes him as being. we can all see it in the examples we've found, any time he gets the ball he is usually not moving more than 2 metres before passing the ball away. maybe he was something greater at partizan, but at the very least we can make the logical conclusions about how great he could not have been based on how he is used at the Yugoslavian NT during his prime.
It's nice that Vinnie has made an independent set, which is breaking the lines.
Here are my final suggestions. It's not an easy job to create a totally precise set. I think that we shouldn't be so harsh at some areas. For example, we could say that there are an indication that his DA was a really decent, especially if we take into the account a low/average DS&AGI combo. It's always funny when you compare an actual footage with the old resources which are totally overrating a classic players. For example, this set would have totally been on the place if some of the reports would have been close to reality.
I'd like to see what do Moysis and Vinnie think about it. Also, I'd like to hear your thoughts about Mentality. He looks like far from orange to me.
- Spoiler: show
- Attack: 88-89
Top Speed: 86
Dribble Accuracy: 88(89?)
Dribble Speed: 81-83
Short Pass Accuracy: 74
Short Pass Speed: 71
Long Pass Accuracy: 77
Long Pass Speed: 70
Shot Accuracy: 87
Shot Power: 83
Shot Technique: 86
Free Kick Accuracy: 78
Aggression: high yellow-low orange