Leonardo Koutris

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Leonardo Koutris

Postby PES Stats Database » 2017 Apr 09, 18:44

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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby bitz » 2017 Nov 26, 06:56

He's still having nightmares from the Sporting game. Defensively he has a long way to go if he wants to play on a high level.
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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby bitz » 2017 Dec 09, 07:04

I'm updating his height to 175 cm, many sources list him as such, also he looks pretty much identical to Omar height-wise:

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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby Houy » 2018 Apr 26, 10:39

In the second part of the season he looked much more confident and aggressive in his offense, might need a small boost in Att and Agg.
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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby Houy » 2019 Feb 10, 19:27

http://www.novasports.gr/podosfairo/ell ... aok-video/
some non defending there for Paok's second goal.
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again caught out of position

Though it's not really defending that's the biggest issue, i think he is actually worse than year. He takes very little initiative and i struggle to recall more than a hand-full of good contributions from him, not to mention a good game. Yet he's taken the starter jersey home.

couple nice assists to Guerrero
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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby Houy » 2020 Jan 05, 18:52

I don't understand the LPA increase to yellow. He has never shown real consistency with his crossing, just good form from time to time. Placing him at the same value as Tsimikas and Bouchalakis, and making him a better long passer/crosser than both considering LPS and Curl, is kind of absurd.

I was trying to make sense of this and would have most likely PMed you instead of posting, for this and the recent updates to El Arabi. But it's become apparent to me that you are again just mirroring Konami values .
https://www.pesmaster.com/l-koutris/pes ... er/117885/
https://www.pesmaster.com/y-el-arabi/pe ... yer/41889/

You need to atleast post suggestions first man if you want to do this so we can discuss it.
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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby bitz » 2020 Jan 06, 07:30

What is the key element to Koutris's game other than his crossing? I think KONAMI got him right in PES2019 and the same goes for El Arabi, whom they changed from a technical CF to a slow, tanky finisher that he is in reality.

Back to Koutris, he isn't particularly fast or technical, his stamina barely lasts through the whole match and he is a liability tactically and in the air. Koutris is a fullback who despite his shortcomings would feed the striker with decent accuracy That was his major contribution to the lineup. If anything his short passing should be raised as well as he is able to send ground balls parallel to goal with decent speed. Of course Tsimikas can do this and so much more, that's why he is preferred over Koutris. On the subject of comparing the LPA of the two, I think it's fine for two players to have the same value because they will still end up different when you look at the rest of their stats. Tsimikas can sit on 80 LPA in his own right, Koutris the same, Bouchalakis the same. Bouchalakis can probably be given a boost to LPS and *pinpoint pass, which will further differentiate him from the others and enhance his ability to play long balls from one flank to the other.
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Re: Leonardo Koutris

Postby Houy » 2020 Jan 06, 17:34

bitz wrote:What is the key element to Koutris's game other than his crossing? I think KONAMI got him right in PES2019 and the same goes for El Arabi, whom they changed from a technical CF to a slow, tanky finisher that he is in reality.

Back to Koutris, he isn't particularly fast or technical, his stamina barely lasts through the whole match and he is a liability tactically and in the air. Koutris is a fullback who despite his shortcomings would feed the striker with decent accuracy That was his major contribution to the lineup. If anything his short passing should be raised as well as he is able to send ground balls parallel to goal with decent speed.


I disagree with the ''overachiever'' idea completely. Koutris is one of the more dynamic fullbacks in the league if his head is straight, he is even tenacious. He is very athletic, with solid body control. Technically he is also on the high end in the league's SB ladders, with only 4 players above him in DA/Tech. Regarding his Stamina, it was lowered from 82 to represent how problematically little energy he expended last year game in game out. He can easily justify a higher number, he did so in the 17/18 season and even showed it in the few games he played this year seeing he was losing his starting spot. Last year he continuously coasted through games in uncharacteristic fashion for a full-back. That said, his problem with inconsistency of performance in general was far better addressed by lowering his form to 3 which was done after the fact. With that in mind reverting Sta to 82 is justified too as it was a half measure to begin with and is kind of unfair. I also agree on a point increase in SPA, possibly SPS. BB and Resp should be increased back to 75 too imo .

bitz wrote:Of course Tsimikas can do this and so much more, that's why he is preferred over Koutris.
And how is that represented with them literally in one point distance in Att/TS/ACC/DS/DA/TECH/BB/CURL/AGG/SPS and the same number for SPA and LPA. That's the thing, the two are very similar in their attacking skillet, with one edging out over the other slightly in different areas. What sets them apart in a big way is that Tsimikas plays his whole flank like a real full back, connecting with the team and running relentlessly, and that he actually has a key element to his offense and a weapon he can use with little set up, continuously and to great effect, his crossing.

bitz wrote:On the subject of comparing the LPA of the two, I think it's fine for two players to have the same value because they will still end up different when you look at the rest of their stats. Tsimikas can sit on 80 LPA in his own right, Koutris the same, Bouchalakis the same. Bouchalakis can probably be given a boost to LPS and *pinpoint pass, which will further differentiate him from the others and enhance his ability to play long balls from one flank to the other.
I don't disagree with that notion but my question is still the same.. when did Koutris show this kind of crossing ability ? Tsimikas shows it literally game in and game out. You know this :| . He is on the league's top five chart https://www.slgr.gr/en/statistics/18/ for successful crosses made this season with one of the 3 best percentages, only SB among them. I have posted tons of material of his crossing on his thread . Bouchalakis is one of the established quality long passers of the league. And i agree with the addition of pinpoint pass and LPS, possibly LPA increase too. Both these guys are on the precipice of 81 even.

But how does any of this reflect positively on Koutris ? In this argument about his crossing we have yet to touch on his crossing ability. He is capable of a strong neat cross with an average whip. There is no comparison between his crossing and Tsimikas' in terms of intent and ability to target a player or even an area. The majority of Koutris' crosses are blind to accuracy and thus doomed from the beginning and he becomes marginally less effective from difficult angles or distance, unlike the latter who produces from seemingly every spot . Nor is there any comparison in their confidence utilizing them or their output. For Tsimikas (crossing ) and Bouchalakis ( long passing ) it's become a trademark skill, for Koutris last year it was a trademark tendency preceded by him indecisively time wasting and depleting all his good options and then scrounging or turning back to find space for himself.

To answer your first question, Koutris is a well rounded fullback without a real standout quality in offense. His tactical ineptness and defensive weakness downgrade him to below par status if we are judging him in top league standards inspite of his qualities and strong potential as an attacking fullback, yet he has a claim to those standards because of them. I don's see why we need to personally compensate for that.

Imo he is 77 max. Again, with only 6 SBs with a higher rating.
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78 if we are pushing it . Beside Tsimikas, out of the three 3 players with LPA 80 or higher, Vieirinha and Galo made that same chart of 5 players with the most successful crosses last season https://www.slgr.gr/en/statistics/17/ and the season before that https://www.slgr.gr/en/statistics/16/. In that same season the final player Giannoulis, a gifted crosser, was the top assistman in the league and the only one out of all the players referenced here not playing for Olympiakos, Paok or Aek at the time.

I rest my case.

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