Sergio Ramos


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Sergio Ramos

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 22:58

Full Name: Sergio Ramos García
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CLASSIC SET(S): 2009-10 & 2011-12 & 2013-14

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Aug 31, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2019 Apr 14, 06:06

vinnie wrote:
Suji wrote:
biondi wrote:
jurgens wrote:hes scored more goals in a season than zanneti in his entire carrer basically, lol.


I understand the atk increasing but the def one still looks weird to me, I never saw him making incredibly defensive things rather than an overwelming pressing, something between 75-79 would fit better (unless this season he has improved this much, I haven't pay tv so I can just follow well serie a matches)


No, he hasn't improved. He's his same old self and the only change he has is his heading. This season he's missed some chances which he shouldn't but they're not so many to cause a downgrade already.


What do you two think about the fact that over the last 5 years it's become a repeated pattern that Ramos gets suspended for a key match, and Madrid falls apart defensively?

No doubt Ramos is far too flawed to be an elite defender for his defensive aspects alone. But he isn't rated in that way at all! Out of all of the Centrebacks in our database, Ramos has practically the lowest teamwork rating in the entire database.

And how can we describe 84 defence as incredible? Just go look at Baresi's set, or Maldini, Nesta, Beckenbaur, Passarella, Puyol, Moore . THOSE are amazing sets defensively. 84 is very good, but for a defender that's usually regarded as one of the very best in the world (debatably around here, sure), this indicates a defender that isn't great because of his defensive ability. This rating Ramos has is so far away from that class of defenders mentioned above, it's a world away. I do think this is a fair rating Defence rating for ramos. i see Ramos as individually capable of locking down players, but he DOES have massive concentration problems, and he is practically uninterested in making safe defensive decisions- his gung-ho aggressiveness is an attribute that is often exploited.


I always agree that it's valid to point out Ramos flaws. But i think if we don't mention his now obviously big positive influence for the defences he plays in, then the discussion is not being fair.

If we compare ramos to the elite old school defenders before this new generation of more offensive, risk-taking, and less meticulously attentive centrebacks, isn't it obvious he's nowhere near their class?

There's a slightly strange image we are making of Ramos imo. Because we all agree he has brutal gaps in his skillset. But then we are always saying how his well rounded offensive and tactical abilities explain how he is still an elite player/asset as a whole.

But this is not true.

Just compare Ramos against Hierro, there is practically nothing Ramos surpasses Hierro in, and many key areas Hierro crushes Ramos. And many of the old-school defenders are not only physically similar to Ramos in terms of athleticism/presence, but they are also not so far away from Ramos technically either.

If you just look at Ramos set right now, it's really not that special. He's not a generational player physically, according to his stats, and his technical stats- while world leading, do not really show up as some kind of big advantage over past greats, who happen to have technical stats that aren't really that far away.

Myself, i think Ramos is somewhere in the low to mid yellow range for defence; i think it's fair to give that old 70 defence rating for around that 2010-11 era, then about 75 for that 12-13 era, and since about 2015, i think Ramos is a deserving low yellows defence.

Ramos has been tested against practically every world class defender in the last 5 years, and really i don't see evidence that supports the idea that he has no ability to defend great attacks. We all agree Ramos has a uniquely reckless defensive style. I think we have swayed towards being too harsh on Ramos however. Ramos is not a defensive master, but he is clearly, somewhat good, is he not? Is the low teamwork not meant to punish the poor coordination Ramos has with his defence? It seems overkill to go after both Defence and Teamwork to the database basement level that we did before, i just don't think Ramos has been that bad. And if we had good reasons once to suspect that he indeed might really be that bad.. i find it hard to believe that a defender like that can win 3 straight CLs. At some point, he should be figured out and targeted. Madrid has never been a heavy possession dominant team, they haven't had amazing defensive midfielders or systems either. Yet, even through some of the hardest CL runs ever, Madrid generally tended to do quite well defensively. Combining this with the fact that very consistently when Ramos is out of the team Madrid collapses defensively, then i think it's evident just by looking at the effect of Ramos NOT being there, what kind of effect Ramos generally gives to madrid defensively.


Everything you said is right. This set might be perfect for the previous versions of PES but what about the recent games????
Do you know what kind of value an 84 Def Prowess is??
In PES 17, he's everything but his real self with these defensive stats. He's always present in the right place at the right time to snuff out any kind of attack initiated by any team. He's so overpowered in that area. So, my point is 84 DEF might suit him now but his Def Prowess stat has to be 77 at most. The previous 74 suited better by the way.
And do you have any clip of him showing 83 curling? I've never seen him replicate that in real life. He always looked to me FKA>Curl type of player.

Hope you give this a thought
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Whoah10115 » 2019 Apr 14, 21:07

How again does the prowess part work? I always compare my teammates to pros and the context of all the PES stats lol.

I had one guy who was a beast defensively, but geneally an attacking player, tho he played B2B and could play as a DLP, but he was a bit selfish. And while he read the game well (certainly was smart) his defensive contribution was mostly his defensive actions.

Compare me, even when not in great shape or a niggling injury (and a forward) I could play deep and do the tactical side, even when my contributions weren't made of much action.

So long story short, I honestly get confused (tho I've read the technical definitions and the RES+DEF ÷ by 2 formula)...just seems like I get a lot of contrast in explanations.

Sorry if asking a question I shouldn't here. Main point is he has the ability to make great actions, and to recover, and can be amazing last ditch. He reacts well, but does he read the game and position himself? Nah.

How are he and Vertonghen close? Doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2019 Apr 15, 14:50

Whoah10115 wrote:How again does the prowess part work? I always compare my teammates to pros and the context of all the PES stats lol.

I had one guy who was a beast defensively, but geneally an attacking player, tho he played B2B and could play as a DLP, but he was a bit selfish. And while he read the game well (certainly was smart) his defensive contribution was mostly his defensive actions.

Compare me, even when not in great shape or a niggling injury (and a forward) I could play deep and do the tactical side, even when my contributions weren't made of much action.

So long story short, I honestly get confused (tho I've read the technical definitions and the RES+DEF ÷ by 2 formula)...just seems like I get a lot of contrast in explanations.

Sorry if asking a question I shouldn't here. Main point is he has the ability to make great actions, and to recover, and can be amazing last ditch. He reacts well, but does he read the game and position himself? Nah.

How are he and Vertonghen close? Doesn't make much sense.

Your thinking about defensive Prowess is right. It is the ability of defenders to read the play and react to it i.e. to already position themselves according to the situation. For ex: Godin,Barzagli,Pique ; they all move in positions in which the ball is most likely to go way before it actually comes and as a result they easily intercept passes or dispossess opponents easily and cleanly. They don't mainly rely on tackles, they rely on their positioning.

But players like Ramos, Skriniar or Mascherano aren't defensively as aware of the opposition movements and runs ( low DEF PROWESS and high BALL WINN ). They mostly rely on rough tackling, quick responses and last ditch rescues to defend. However as you may know Skriniar isn't a rough tackler. He effortlessly plucks the ball away from the attacking players. He's an exception, he's tremendously good at dispossessing.

Lastly about Vertonghen, he's defensively far better than Ramos. He's equally good at reading the game and dispossessing as reflected in his stats. He and Ramos are somewhat similar in starting attacks from deep.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby jurgens » 2019 Apr 15, 15:18

We are rating def as the players over-arching ability as a defender, same with def prowess. Thats all.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Turambur » 2019 May 30, 20:32

My problem with the
new stats it that, if in PES 13:
DEF is the ability to recover the ball without fouling.
And a player is got good defensive position if he's got high TW and DEF.
And would be good in interceptions if he is got high RES and good DEF.
So Defensive Prowess is how good a player whould be in position AND interceptions? because if it's that then: should it be some kind of mix between DEF and TW or DEF and RES?
And Ball Winning is all about recovering, why isn't the same as the old DEF in Pes 13?
Players like Kompany have orange DEF and low yellow TW and Mid yellow RES, he would be very good tacker and averange in position, but he is got Orange DEF.P and Orange BW , why? Souldn't he get something like 86 in Defense Prowess and 91 (?) in Ball Winning?
Ramos is got 90 in RES, 64 in TW and 84 in DEF, he is HORRIBLE in position, averange tacker and good in interceptions, and yet he is got 84 in Defense Prowess and 86 in Ball Winning, while his DP should be lower, even high greens. How can I do to read the old defensive stats and turn them to new gen stats? From PES 13 to PES 15
Last edited by Turambur on 2019 May 31, 02:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2019 May 31, 02:37

Turambur wrote:My problem with the
new stats it that, if in PES 13:
DEF is the ability to recover the ball without fouling.
And a player is got good defensive position if he's got high TW and DEF.
And would be good in interceptions if he is got high RES and good DEF.
So Defensive Prowess is how good a player whould be in position AND interceptions? because if it's that then: should it be some kind of mix between DEF and TW or DEF and RES?
And Ball Winning is all about recovering, why isn't the same as the old DEF in Pes 13?
Players like Kompany have orange DEF and low yellow TW and Mid yellow RES, he would be very good tacker and averange in position, but he is got Orange DEF and Orange RES, why? Souldn't he get something like 86 in Defense Prowess and 91 (?) in Ball Winning?
Ramos is got 90 in RES, 64 in TW and 84 in DEF, he is HORRIBLE in position, averange tacker and good in interceptions, and yet he is got 84 in Defense Prowess and 86 in Ball Winning, while his DP should be lower, even high greens. How can I do to read the old defensive stats and turn them to new gen stats? From PES 13 to PES 15


Exactly!
I've been trying to find a way as well from about 6 months but I've had no satisfactory response.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Freeend » 2019 Nov 06, 20:16

★ Penalties
It's more than clear that he has this ability.
Besides being the official taker of your club at the moment.
Also has a high average in this regard.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2020 Jan 12, 13:56

His RES,MENT,ATT surely need a huge downgrade now.
You guys initially wanted to make his set unique which is why you put them so high but now you're not following that. You guys have upped his DEF by about 10 points and haven't even touched RES or MENT or any other stat. So, when are you going to do this? This set no longer needs to be unique.

ATT------->76
RES------>86
MENT--->88
ACC------>73
JUMP---->92
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Whoah10115 » 2020 Jan 13, 02:13

TW can drop lol. Now that his DEF is too high (think his prowess should be pretty high and drop DEF)., drop his TW to replicate his doodoo head self.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2020 Jan 13, 03:09

Yeah, absolutely forgot about TW. This is the stat that will make him a deadbrain he truly is.

TW---->60
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2020 Jan 14, 14:22

BUMP
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2020 Jan 19, 13:13

Double BUMP
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby furymaker » 2020 Feb 16, 22:57

i will never understand this guy, on his day he can look like one of the best defenders ever, but his consistency is nowhere to be found, so horrible at reading the game, positioning himself, being so aggressive and careless in his approach
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby stumink » 2020 Feb 27, 09:32

His attack is for sure too high. It was never 80 but he shows even less danger in attack than before. His response also warrants a downgrade. This set makes him too effective in defense.
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby dens man » 2020 Sep 14, 10:59

i think there has to be an increase in sergio ramos's defensive aspect cos as of last season he is better off than virgil van dijk ,he has more successfully tackles than vigil van dijk, he won more matches than virgil van dijk and lost less matches than him.so i think his defence should step up from 84 to 90
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby Suji » 2020 Sep 15, 14:16

^Stop it man, don't try to kill me :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby AdAc » 2020 Sep 15, 20:07

I suggest 98 for both Defence and Defence prowess for S.Ramos and a slight increase in Beard
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Re: Sergio Ramos

Postby elbicho » 2020 Oct 26, 10:20

He looks better and more necessary than ever in Real madrid. When he doesn't play Varane looks like a second division defender. Anyway, I think that Mendy is who really makes the difference in Real Madrid defence, since he plays Ramos looks much more solid, not having to solve Marcelo's huge problems.

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