[Urgent] Response in CBs


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Korinov
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[Urgent] Response in CBs

Postby Korinov » 2012 Jun 01, 08:25

I didn't know where to put this... please, just read the following topic (not many posts, nor walls of text, it's a quick read really):

viewtopic.php?f=433&t=27714

After having a quick look at the state of 'our' portion of the database (the spanish leagues, that is), I believe we have tons of CBs badly rated in terms of response. I think we've rated a lot of them considering their "physical responses" only, in terms of tackling mostly, when that's actually a DEF issue. I mean, look at Ballesteros and his 82 RES... he's a very little adventurous defender, rarely leaves his position in the back four and usually waits for the opposition players to come near him to try a challenge. So there's no need to have him on a yellow RES, he could probably do all right with a low/mid green value.

Another example (I'm using this one because I know them well): Deportivo la Coruña defenders. Currently four CBs: Colotto, Zé Castro, Aythami and Rochela. Aythami is BY FAR the most responsive of them, in fact he's probably too much responsive for his own good (tends to leave huge gaps in defense due to his interception attempts), he should probably have a mid/high yellow number (in the 86-88 range). But the others... Colotto and Zé Castro are usually calm and collected defenders, do not leave their position much. They do not need a great RES value to be well replicated ingame. Anything in the 75 - 78 range would suit them well. And then Rochela... a bit more adventurous than those two, but still, no need to go over 79-80 for him.

Note that having 86 in RES won't make Aythami a better defender than the others. That's a matter of DEF (effectivity at marking, tackling and disposessing opposition players) and TW (coordination capacity with teanmates, ability to 'read the game' and such things)... stats where Colotto should clearly shine above the other three.

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yourigo
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Re: [Urgent] Response in CBs

Postby yourigo » 2012 Jun 06, 02:21

what's funny is that there was a member here about two years ago, i think his nick was p1rha, who was already saying this. His favourite example was the rating konami gave to passarella (73 response i think) and other world-class defenders and at the same time their defense was in the 90's, and he thougth it wasn't by accident. Unfortunetly this wasn't his only "revolutionary" idea, he always liked to question the estabilished thougths and when people started criticizing him just because he had a different view he got a bit frustrated and eventually locked horns with a moderator who kicked him out, so we lost one of the best and more original stat-makers around.

But i've been doing things his way since then and so i have an entire OF with players already rated according to the principle you're discussing. I can post my CB response ladder for la liga if you want, you'll of course disagree with many ratings, but at least it can give you a base to work on and save you some trouble. And i hope you can spread the ideia.

It's probably for the best that this revolution starts in la liga since they have the highest interception average per game of all the leagues and so the cb's have the highest responses, and when people try to implement this idea in other leagues they'll use la liga as the standard and the change won't be so dramatic. Because if i try to convince anyone to give under 70 in response to carragher for example, like i have in my OF, i'll get murdered :mrgreen: .

Be aware though, that you have to take other things into account. If you rate a CB's response based on interceptions per game you'll find Piqué sitting at the bottom of the pile (1.7 interceptions per game this year, lowest of la liga's CB's), which might not be fair considering he doesn't have as many chances to intercept as other players because of Barcelona's ball possession. I have come up with a simple formula to deal with that that i can also share if you're interested. Yet, Piqué will still be one of the lowest rated in response and so you'll have to deal with a lot of fanboys if you really want to go through with this.
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Re: [Urgent] Response in CBs

Postby vinnie » 2012 Jun 06, 02:25

I totally agree with the concept.

Not only that, I really like it. It seems like even another way to show characteristics and playing style.
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Re: [Urgent] Response in CBs

Postby yourigo » 2012 Jun 06, 02:59

you know what's the best thing about this? Remember all those times when you opponent plays a fast move and crosses to an isolated forward to score and your left thinking "where the fuck did my defenders go?"? With lower response they won't try to intercept the opponent's move so often and so they'll be right where you want them :D. The difference when i started using this ladder was noticeable. And because the offside trap quality is still determined by defense, team-work and *Df Leader rather than response you'll still catch your opponent offside anyway, so you'll actually feel that your defenders are smarter with lower response...crazy right 8-)?
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Rosenbjudy
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Re: [Urgent] Response in CBs

Postby Rosenbjudy » 2015 Aug 06, 07:01

One day, if I want to do.

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