Overall rating Algorithm


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vinnie
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Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Sep 07, 05:41

Something that's always bothered me is how there doesn't yet exist a useful overall rating algorithm to accurately reflect a players prowess and worth. I like overall ratings, they can give you an easy and general understanding of a player's full talent potential, and are very useful for browsers or users, IF they are accurate or intelligently calculated.

Most of us that regularly contribute here don't need an overall rating to understand a players overall worth, but having an algorithm will make things very easy to compare and get a general understanding of a player's overall rating by us through the individual attributes as a collective, at a glance for those who aren't as in depth as some of us are.

The fact that such an overall rating method doesn't exist annoys me.

Therefore i put a little time just now in trying to make one work. So far i have this for the CF position:

So i've been trying to rework the CF overalls.. i think i've got something that can be used off the bat.

the algorithm i used before was too focused on trying to realise overalls that i wanted, and there were so many additional rules concerning stars and form, injury tolerance etc that anytime i had to tweak something to better balance the formula, that fucker became a nightmare to keep track of.

not to mention, who gives a shit about all that crap.

This adjusted one is simply about stats, no accountance of inury tolerance or stars, and form only has a down effect, i.e 4 or below is -1, 2 is -2, 1 is -3 (OVR).

Also i made the key attributes more heavily weighted.. so that the all around players who aren't exceptional don't manage to get great OVR values. But the increased all around weigthing on attacking attributes is higher, so a CF like Sturridge isn't underrated. In the original calcs, he was an 82. With this one, he's at 86.

This is how it looks for CF's.

ATT1.3
DEF 0.05
BB 1
STA 0.25
TS 0.65
ACC 0.75
RES 1.3
DA 0.6
DS 0.45
AGI 0.25
SPA 0.35
SPS 0.1
LPA 0.2
LPS 0.05
SA 1.1
SPS 0.65
ST 1.3
TEC 0.55
HEA 1.3
JUM 0.95
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1.1
TOTAL
x 15.1
-380





List of calculated Overalls so far:

CF


Spoiler: show
Ronaldo : 97

Marco Van Basten : 97

Gerd : 96

Ruud Van Nistelrooy : 96

Shearer : 96

Falcao : 96

Weah : 96

Romario : 95

Batistuta : 95

Shevchenko : 95

Vieri : 94

Papin : 94

Klinnsman : 94

Drogba : 94

Suarez : 93

Henry : 93

Cantona : 93

Voller : 93

Trezeguet : 93

Eto'o : 93

Owen : 92

Aguero : 92

Wright : 92

Torres : 92

Crespo : 92

Butragueno : 92

Zamorano : 92

Zlatan : 91

Tevez : 91

Van Persie : 91

Diego Costa : 91

Villa : 91

Inzaghi : 91

Šuker : 91

Mark Hughes : 91

Diego Milito : 90

Cavani : 90

Rooney : 90

Kluivert : 90

B. Laudrup : 90

Andy Cole : 90

Linekaar : 89

Lewandowski : 89

Edin Džeko : 89

Huntelaar : 89

Palermo : 89

Di Natale : 89

Higuain : 89

Negredo : 89

Solskjær : 89

Benzema : 88

Mandzukic : 88

Kießling : 88

Chicharito : 88

Bacca : 88

Kevin Phillips: 87

Aubameyang : 87

Yilmaz : 87

Palacio : 87

Sturridge: 86

Adebayor : 86

Giroud : 86

Bony : 86

Gignac : 86

Immobile: 86

Remy : 86

Benteke : 85

Kanu : 85

Luca Toni : 85

Gameiro : 85

Andy Caroll : 84

Balotelli : 84

Welbeck : 84

Lukaku : 84

Papiss Cissé : 84

Paco Alcácer : 84

Llorente : 83

Uche : 83

Helmes : 83

Lambert : 83

Emenike : 83

Fred : 82

Jelavic : 82

Raúl Jiménez : 82

Altidore : 82

Van Wolfswinkel : 81

Xisco : 80

Crouch : 79




It's still flawed, but i think it gets the lower tier strikers right if you talk about their overalls, the likes of bony, giroud, benteke, palaciao. i'm happy about that at the least.


Take into consideration that any little set flaws or inflations (i.e needlessly high fk/curl, etc) will contribute to inaccurate ratings.. to it's hard to get this perfect, i just like this balance, so that poachers don't totally reign supreme, and the lazier but technically gifted aren't undermined by a CF templative demand.
If i took the PSD Hakan Sukur set and used the algorithm, he comes out as a 93.. and honestly looking at the set, that's an overall that makes sense, as his set makes him look like a monstrosity of a CF.. but if i used the default classic Sukur stats for the algorithm, he comes out as only 89. There was a huge difference between the default classic Sukur and the PSD Sukur, so outdated sets can be a problem clearly.

Also, the differences between some of these players is often not really an entire point, often it's maybe even a difference of 0.2, say, weah is 95.6, and Romario is 95.4, Weah is rounded to 96 while Romario is rounded down to 95, so there's often smaller differences between players then an entire point.

*And someone like Henry is more of an SS then a CF, but i just wanted to see how his rating would turn out. He should be a red overall as an SS but i've yet to make a good SS algorithm.

If you pay attention, Players like Rooney, Balotelli, Fred, they all have lower overalls then they should due to form. rooney form 4 is -1 from 91, balotelli form 2 is -2 from 86, fred form 2 is -2 from 84, Remy is a form 4 , -1 to 86 from 87, Andy caroll down to 84 from 85 due to form 4.

Also something i noticed is how careless some of the fringe sets or outdated classic sets can be, take burak yilmaz for example, two or three people comment that his technical skills are terrible, that he shouldn't even be above 75 ball control or greens dribbling, but he sits at 82 technique and 80 da ds, basically all yellows for technical ability despite his description. In players like these i just compared the comments to the default set and used some common sense. We should check for these sets and just fix them right away, some would say this is standardization to a stretch, but honestly that's way better then having totally overrated fringe league superstars. I've seen some comments that we make fringe players too complete, too technically unflawed, and to some extent, i agree that there are certainly examples of this in our database that we've yet to correct.




ATT1.7
DEF 0.15
BB 0.8
STA 0.35
TS 0.8
ACC 0.9
RES 1
DA 1.4
DS 0.75
AGI 0.45
SPA 1.5
SPS 0.6
LPA 1.1
LPS 0.3
SA 1.75
SPS 0.65
ST 1.2
TEC 1.2
HEA 0.75
JUM 0.6
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1
TOTAL
x 19.8
-790






List of calculated Overalls so far:

SS


Spoiler: show
Messi : 100

Cruyff : 98

Cristiano : 97

Ronaldinho : 96

Pele : 95

Henry : 95

Cantona : 94

Baggio: 93

Rivaldo : 93

Stoichkov: 93

Raul : 92

Bergkamp: 92

Rummenigge : 92

Suarez : 92

Uli Hoeness: 91

Aguero : 91

Enzo: 91

Del Piero : 90

Mancini : 90

Tevez : 90

Litmanen : 89

Zola : 89

Le Tissier : 88

G. Rossi : 88

Luc Nilis : 87

Neymar : 87

Jovetic : 87

Gudjohnsen : 87

Alexis Sanchez : 87

Van Der Vaart : 87

Cassano : 87

Miccoli : 87

Recoba : 87

Totti : 86

Mutu : 86

Beardsley : 86

Di Canio : 86

Asprilla : 86

Palacio : 85

Ortega : 85

Giovinco : 85

Sturridge : 84

Robinho : 84

Arshavin : 84

Pedro : 84

Lamela : 84

Callejon : 84

Nenê : 84

Sheringham : 83

Brolin : 83

Podolski : 83

Malouda : 83

Quagliarella : 83

C. Vela : 82

Lavezzi : 82

Vucinic : 82

Kuyt : 82

Donovan : 81

Michu : 80

Menez : 80

Munian : 80

Welbeck : 80

Ljajic : 79

Markovic : 78

L. Muriel : 78

Iago Aspas : 78

Ibarbo : 78

Borini : 77


As you can see in the attribute weightings, there's a much heavier emphasis on technique and passing, and thus the more scoring centred ss's go down a bit, but the creator ss's go up (in relativity at least).


That 100 Messi is the 11-12 one, current messi is 97/96 ( 96 based some early season changes that are only reflective of the season so far like 97 da 92 sa)

pedro and vucinic's are prime sets.


Same thing, but now i've reworked it for WF

ATT1.7
DEF 0.15
BB 0.7
STA 0.5
TS 1.25
ACC 1.3
RES 0.75
DA 1.5
DS 1.2
AGI 0.8
SPA 0.8
SPS 0.4
LPA 0.9
LPS 0.7
SA 1.1
SPS 0.75
ST 0.8
TEC 1
HEA 0.55
JUM 0.5
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1
TOTAL
x 19.2
-740




List of calculated Overalls so far:

WF


Spoiler: show
Best: 93

Robben : 93

Giggs : 92

Littbarski : 92

Johnstone : 90

Figo : 89

Jairzinho : 88

Claudio Lopez : 88

Caniggia : 88

Conti : 87

Overmars : 86

Kanchelski : 85

Moura : 85

Keizer : 85

Giuly : 85

Waddle : 84

Hulk : 84

Griezmann : 84

El Shaarawy : 84

Mertens : 83

Denilson : 82

Walcott : 82

Gervinho : 82

Agbonlahor : 80

Deulofeu : 80

Townsend : 78

B. Ruiz : 77


Again, the distinguishment between a natural WF and an smf who can play SMF might seem slight, but for example an SMF will be much more focused on long passing, less on speed, more on teamwork, passing, so a Figo would shine.

Also, WF's tend to have a small impact on the game, so I just aimed to have the robben's etc at 93 or so, and then from there the rest follow beneath, and I think this gives the WF an overall that's appreciative of what they can do, but rather then saying that they're a 99 overall wf, the overall says it's an 93 overall effect on the game, or importance.


Legends:

Didn't want to put them in the same list as it might kind of skew.

Spoiler: show
WF

Messi 2008 : 97

C. Ronaldo 2008 : 96

C. Ronaldo 2006 : 94

Henry 2008 : 90


A fix i'm going to try later is just adjusting header weigting from 0.9 to 0.75, and jump from 0.75 to 0.6, as i don't think these attributes should have so much weighting, after some reflect and observation.[/quote]

Same thing, but now i've reworked it for SMF

ATT 2
DEF 0.55
BB 0.65
STA 1.1
TS 1.8
ACC 1.7
RES 0.55
DA 2.4
DS 1.3
AGI 0.7
SPA 0.9
SPS 0.7
LPA 3
LPS 2.3
SA 0.75
SPS 0.7
ST 0.55
TEC 0.9
HEA 0.3
JUM 0.25
MEN 0.3
TW 0.9
FK 0.1
CUR 0.165
AGG 0.9
TOTAL
x 25.465




List of calculated Overalls so far:

SMF

Spoiler: show
Hagi: 95

Figo: 93

Ribery : 93

Giggs : 91

Di Maria : 90

Bale : 89

Candreva : 88

Beckham : 87

J. Navas : 87

Ginola : 86

Reus : 86

Camorenesi : 86

Cuadrado : 86

Ljungberg : 85

Donadoni : 85

Kewell : 85

Simao : 84

Shaqiri : 84

Joaquin : 83

Bertolini : 83

Krasic : 83

Willian : 82

Salihamidžic : 82

Arda Turan : 82

Nani : 82

Joe Cole : 81

Maxi : 81

Milner : 80

Gökhan Töre : 80

McGeady : 80

Quaresma : 79

Lennon : 79

Ben Arfa : 79

Sterling : 78

Ashley Young : 77

Mirallas : 77

Oxlaide-Chamberlain : 77

Feghouli : 77

S. Larsson : 77

Zaha : 75

Großkreutz : 74

Konoplyanka : 74



This position was one of the toughest to figure out how to weigh attributes, because there are just so many different kinds of SMF's, average speed, average dribbling, but exceptional long ball and final ability smf's like beckham/ larrsson, speed demons like lennon, technical demons like quaresma, defensive beasts like grosskreutz, and then all the mixes and amalgamations of these players.

My solution was to theorize that, the SMF is in itself, a sort of proclamation of limitedness, because all the greatest SMF's save the one's who are just slow, or poor finishers, become WF's, or, designated and built around to create scoring chances. SMF's are not so free, they are expected to be more two way, and the team depends on them less for being the difference maker, whether because they lack explosiveness, finishing, or final third ability.

In that sense the perfect SMF is just a player with great stamina, great speed, great dribbling decent defensive work rate, good team ability, and a great long ball. They aren't the assassins, and 99% of SMF's will only excel at 2-3 out of these 6-7 important abilities. In that sense, they are limited players, who are in their own role, limited.

Therefore I don't believe that Ox's or Quaresma's or young's are very underrated. If you look at their sets.. they are really only good at 2-3 areas, and in the rest, average.

My problem is that maybe I didn't put enough weigthing on speed... but one of the primary goals I had was to have figo at 93, beckham at 86/87. If you put any more weigthing on speed then it is at now, the likes of cuadrado and co would crush beckham etc.

If speed weighting went up.. Ox and co could come up a little bit in relativity.. but keep in mind, those speed monsters will even dwarf them.. so it's a very tricky balance.

This position is very hard, so if anyone else has comments about the ladder from this calculation, that will be great




Miscellanious

Spoiler: show
SMF


Hazard : 86

C. Ronaldo 2004 : 84


Same thing, but now i've reworked it for CMF, and DMF

ATT1
DEF 1.6
BB 0.95
STA 1.2
TS 0.6
ACC 0.75
RES 0.9
DA 1.0
DS 0.7
AGI 0.45
SPA 2.2
SPS 1.2
LPA 2.2
LPS 1.2
SA 0.7
SPS 0.8
ST 0.7
TEC 1.6
HEA 0.45
JUM 0.3
MEN 0.6
TW 2.0
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 0.65
TOTAL
x 23.9
-1100




List of calculated Overalls so far:

CMF


Spoiler: show
Matthaus: 95

Xavi: 94

Iniesta : 92

Yaya Toure : 92

Deco : 91

Scholes : 90

Bernd Schuster : 90

Pirlo : 90

Lampard: 90

Seedorf : 89

Albertini : 89

Simeone : 89

Vieira : 88

Fabregas : 88

Modric : 88

Vidal : 88

Mendieta : 88

Rakitic : 88

Ze Roberto : 87

Thiago : 87

Conte : 87

Borja : 87

Effenberg : 87

Kroos : 86

De La Pena : 86

Marchisio : 86

Strootman : 86

Gerrard : 86

Sahin : 85

Pogba : 85

Tigana : 85

Van Bommel : 85

Gundogan : 85

Pjanic : 85

Kovačić : 84

Moutinho : 84

Gabi : 84

Barry : 84

Gravesen : 84

Fernandinho : 84

Montolivo : 83

Redknapp : 83

Wilshere : 83

Ramsey : 83

Aquilani : 83

Bender : 83

Cabaye : 83

Koke : 82

Nainggolan : 82

Ray Wilkins : 82

Paulinho : 82

Carrick : 81

Henderson : 81

Banega : 80

Matuidi : 80

Dembele : 80

Bradley : 80

Flamini : 80

Joe Allen : 79

Fellaini : 79

Sissoko : 77

Ramires : 77

M. Suarez : 76

Freddy Guarin : 74





Legends ~ 60's 70's and Primes

Spoiler: show
CMF

Gerrard : 94

Neeskens : 93

Robson : 91

Tardelli : 87

Gerson : 87









ATT1
DEF 3.3
BB 1.2
STA 0.85
TS 0.6
ACC 0.75
RES 1.4
DA 0.9
DS 0.7
AGI 0.45
SPA 1.5
SPS 1.0
LPA 1.6
LPS 1.0
SA 0.4
SPS 0.5
ST 0.4
TEC 0.9
HEA 0.6
JUM 0.5
MEN 0.85
TW 1.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 0.4
TOTAL
x 22.2
-940




List of calculated Overalls so far:

DMF


Spoiler: show
Rijkaard: 96

Keane: 92

Redondo : 90

Cambiasso: 90

De Rossi : 89

Edgar Davids : 89

Guardiola : 88

Dunga : 87

Emerson : 87

Mascherano : 87

X. Alonso : 87

Paul Ince : 86

Hamann : 86

Matic : 86

J. Martinez : 86

Verratti : 86

Pirlo : 85

Senna : 85

Deschamps : 85

Makelele : 84

Busquets : 83

M. Silva : 84

G. Silva : 84

Assuncao : 83

Toulalan : 83

Desailly : 83

Mavuba : 83

S. Kehl : 83

Nicky Butt : 82

I. Helguera : 82

Inler : 82

Sven Bender : 81

L. Biglia : 81

Ambrosini : 81

Gattuso : 80

Luiz Gustavo : 80

Jon Obi Mikel : 79

Javi Garcia : 79

Albelda : 78

Iturraspe : 77





My thoughts on Pirlo's 'anomaly' rating, obviously I wouldn't have envisioned Pirlo being an 85, nor did I plan on it, if I had my vision, he would be 90ish, since it's pirlo after all. But what is he really? He doesn't do the DMF duties very well, at least if you look at his set. 83 stamina, 64 defence, 75 response, low mentality, low strength, low speed, no aerial ability. He's a deep lying playmaker, but why should the template be based on his strengths? A DMF should be the one that protects the back 4, the one that dominates loose balls and keeps opposition dominance out of the middle. Pirlo will do none of that, and he's crushed by the likes of keane, de rossi, Redondo. Even the likes of Guardiola/Alonso. They both have similarly godly passing ability, in every facet. But Guardiola is at least decent defensively, with 74 defence, and 82 response. That gap of 10 defence and 7 response makes a difference of 5 overall points alone. If Pirlo had values similar to his default set for pes 6 ish, he'd be up to 88+ Overall. As it is, I think it's justified that Pirlo has a good, but not great Overall, just as the likes of Aguero, Suarez et all shouldn't have the outstanding SS overall ratings even though they are historic level goal scorers, or Zlatan shouldn't have the godly CF rating to match his technical level and goalscoring rate, due to his deficiencies in key CF traits, deficiencies that have always been exposed in Europe.

And if I think of Pirlo (of the little I know), then I think of him dominating the weak midfield of England at the euro 2012, but then getting destroyed against spain being pretty unable to do anything to stop spain's midfield dominance.

Following this logic if it's to be applied to DMF's,
Pirlo hasn't been made to be a good enough DMF in his set to deserve more then the 85 overall he gets as a DMF, so I'm ok with the rating. The possibility is that he's underrated, but I don't know pirlo of 2006, or really, in general.








Original draft:


Spoiler: show
1000

cf

att 0.80
def 0.05
bb 0.70
sta 0.25
ts 0.45
acc 0.55
res 0.80
da 0.45
ds 0.20
agi 0.25
spa 0.30
sps 0.10
lpa 0.15
lps 0.05
sa 0.75
sp 0.60
st 0.80
tec 0.55
hea 0.80
jum 0.70 +1.__ height /1.83
men 0.40
tw 0.30
fk 0.10
swe 0.5

con
wfa
wff


Muller

79.2
1.55
56.7
20
36.45
46.75
79.2
35.55
15.2
20.75
22.5
7.5
10.5
3.5
72.75
46.8
76
46.2
74.4
58.8
64.25
31.6
6.3
3.9

wfa >4 ->tn=10(n-5), 8=40, n = wfa
wfa <4 ->tn=10(5-n), 1=-40, n =wff

wff >4 ->tn=5(n-4), 8=40, n = wfa
wfa <4 ->tn=10(4-n), 1=-40, n =wff

cond >5 ->tn=10(n-5), 8=40 | <4 ->tn=-5+-10(1-n), 1=-40

scoring 10
1-1 10
1-touch 10
lines 5
reaction 5
positioning 5
...
...




So how does this work? the player's rating in each attribute (1=99) will be mulitplied by a factor according to the importance of the attribute to the position, so that important attributes will have a higher weighting in the overall rating.

using this algorithm i put together quickly, i tested it on Gerd Muller. The numbers under Muller = the result, i.e 99 attack x .8= 79.2 etc.

at the end all the sums add to 1000 which divides by 10 to 100, creating a rating out of 100.

stars have base value, and wff/cond/wfa depend on simple ratio sequence in tn=a+d(n-1) (or x-n)

and i actually fucked up by forgetting to include aggression, but then decided that a lazy compromise is multiplying the total by the aggression value, because afterall the worth is then how much that ability is used right?

Nah just lazy. but it works, ish for now.

Using this Muller was calculated to be a base value 90.7, +wff (3)+wfa(3)+ cond (2)+ stars= 102.7

Now this calculation needs alot of small tweaks.. things i missed out, weighting which should be adjusted, but i want to leave this here so other people can fiddle with it or propose stuff for other positions. i think as a basic, this way of finding an overall doesn't have too many flaws, and is dynamic in that it accounts for position in an more accurate manner then konami's mostly useless overall rating system.

i find math boring so if other people want to give it a shot, it would be greatly valuable.


edit: i made a lazy fix ..

Using this Muller was calculated to be a base value 90.7,

instead of multiplying the base value by aggression (which would too unfairly handicapp less aggressive forwards), i set aggression to weight 8.0, used that as an additional value, then deducted 11 from the final total so that
+wff (3)+wfa(3)+ cond (2)+ stars= 110.62 (-11) = 99.6, make him the bench mark. I find it fitting that the benchmark CF gets the benchmark value, 99.


Following this i tried some other players.

i tried Marco Van Basten and got 89.9 base value, +7.36 + wff (3)+wfa(4) + cond (1)+ stars (-11)= 97

I tried Diego Costa and got 82.1 base value +6.8 agg +wff (1)+wfa(2) + cond (2) + stars (-11)= 85

I tried Diego Milito and go 88.97 +wff (2)+ wfa(3) +stars (-11)= 89


Do those ratings not seem pretty reasonable and reflective to most people?

I think with some more thoughtful tweaks they can be even better reflective... but i'm pleased with the room for adjustment... which seems balanced enough so far as i can tell.





Eto'o has a base value of 876.75 +agg = 952.75 +2+2+2+2-11= 92
possibly the 08-09 set is slightly incomplete and this isn't totally a fair reflection, i only added it to the DB a few days ago without indepth personal knowledge.














List of calculated Overalls so far:

CF

Ronaldo : 99

Romario : 98

Marco Van Basten : 97

Ruud Van Nistelrooy : 97

Shearer : 97

Falcao : 96

Batistuta : 96

Shevchenko : 96

Zlatan : 95

Henry : 94

Van Persie : 94

Drogba : 93

Villa : 93

Eto'o : 92

Vieri : 92

Inzaghi : 91

Lewandowski : 91

Edin Džeko : 90

Frédéric Kanouté : 90

Diego Milito : 89

Rooney : 89

Benzema : 88

Diego Costa : 85

Chicharito : 84

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Dec 06, 07:27, edited 8 times in total.
Reason: added players (fabregas, kroos, modric, inler, kovacic, carrick, biglia, montolivo, aquilani, ince, butt, schuster), added SMF Overalls
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vinnie
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 14, 22:32

jurgens wrote:Brought this thread to nrby's attention and he said raster will be able to implement this to the main site once your done pretty easily. I've also got a lot more free time to work on the site for awhile, so if you need some help with this, just bring it to my attention.. havnt really been reading these posts.

the best thing you can do is by pointing out the weird over/under rated overalls. For example I'm doing a CB overall at the moment and I'm decently satisfied with it, but I can't be sure about some player's ratings (kohler, Figueroa, schawrzenbeck, krol) because I didn't know them.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 15, 06:49

1st draft, all feedback helps as always. I had orginally had this set up to be even move heavily defence weighted (defence weighting 5), but then the average or just 'good' cb's all get kind of unfair overalls due to how far away they are from the gods/ best of all time. With this low overall weighting, there's a slightly better balance imo, although some of the best cb's might seem a bit underrated/overrated amongst others due to DEF not being quite as dominant as planned. I think if you look at the sets of the players though, there's good reasons to support these overalls and how they compare amongst each other.

I can't help if some players might be slightly overrated/underrated as well, i don't know all of these cb's. For Example, Figueroa actually has the joint highest overall for a CB of all time, tied at 95 with Baresi, and he should if his set is realistic, 96 def 89 bb 92 res 88 header 94 air 93 mentality, 90 teamwork, basically a god at everything, along with the fact that he's far above average for a cb technically, and above average in speed as well. Basically the perfect defender. I was so interested that i went and watched some vs vids of him, 1966 and 1974, vs ussr, germany, and australia. If you watch a Moore, that 98 defence is just so so blatantly obvious.. but the best i could see of Figueroa was that maybe he was an orange def, and his res high yellows.. he honestly had little to do, looked technically good, looked like a good headerer, but i wasn't sure that he's above 92 def 88 res honestly, and that difference alone between 96 def and 92 res makes a difference of 3 overall, lowering him from 95 to 92. Therefore i discounted him for now on account of those reservations, and this can apply to whatever anomalies below, i don't know every set and some might be in need of some changes that i wasn't aware of.

Last thing, for like a Kompany, i had actually tweaked his TW down slightly based on thoughts i've had for a long time.. if you put his current TW in there he'd be a 90 or so instead of 89.


ATT 0.1
DEF 3.4
BB 2.1
STA 0.1
TS 0.4
ACC 0.5
RES 2.5
DA 0.1
DS 0.05
AGI 0.1
SPA 0.2
SPS 0.2
LPA 0.3
LPS 0.3
SA 0.1
SP 0.35
ST 0.1
TEC 0.3
HEA 1
JUM 1.4
MEN 0.8
TW 2
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 0.1
TOTAL
x 16.65




List of calculated Overalls so far:

CB



All Time

Spoiler: show
CB



Baresi : 95

Maldini : 94

Kohler : 92

Passarella : 92

Nesta : 92

Cannavaro : 91

Blanc : 91

Scirea : 91

Adams : 91

McGrath : 91

Beckenbauer : 91

Bergomi : 91

Vidic : 91

Puyol : 91

Moore : 90

Thiago Silva : 90

Stam : 90

Hummels : 90

Terry : 90

Kompany : 89

Krol : 89

Lucio : 89

Ayala : 89

Ruggeri : 89

Sanchis : 89

Samuel : 88

Aldair : 88

Butcher : 88

Campbell : 88

Carvalho : 88

Ferdinand : 88

Miranda : 88

Bruce : 88

Costacurta : 87

Montero : 87

Benatia : 87

Chiellini : 87

Carragher : 87

Gentile : 86

Koeman : 86

Milito : 86

Materazzi : 85

Barzagli : 85

Sergio Ramos : 85

De Boer : 85

Nadal : 85

Subotic : 85

Godin : 84

Schwarzenbeck : 84

Couto : 84

Gonzalo : 84

Varane : 84

Koscielny : 84

Marquez : 83

Pepe : 83

Pique : 83

Chivu : 83

Bonucci : 83

D. Luiz : 83

Cahill : 83

Škrtel : 83

Jagielka : 83

Mertesacker : 82

Alex : 82

Campagnaro : 82

Demichelis : 82

Pallister : 82

Andrade : 81

Mihajlovic : 80

Juan Jesus : 80

Jonny Evans : 80

Distin : 80

Ranocchia : 78




Current All


Spoiler: show
CB



Thiago Silva : 90

Hummels : 90

Kompany : 89

Vidic : 88

Miranda : 88

Benatia : 87

Chiellini : 87

Terry : 86

Barzagli : 85

Sergio Ramos : 85

Subotic : 85

Godin : 84

Gonzalo : 84

Varane : 84

Koscielny : 84

Höwedes : 84

Pepe : 83

Bonucci : 83

Samuel : 80

D. Luiz : 83

Cahill : 83

Škrtel : 83

Jagielka : 83

J. Boateng : 82

Mertesacker : 82

Alex : 82

Campagnaro : 82

Badstuber : 82

Demichelis : 82

Sakho : 82

Yepes : 82

Rolando : 82

A. Rami : 82

Dante : 82

Mangala : 82

Vertonghen : 81

Vlaar : 81

Phil Jones : 81

Carvalho : 81

Kolo Toure : 81

Pique : 80

Juan Jesus : 80

Jonny Evans : 80

Shawcross : 80

Distin : 80

Huth : 80

R. Albiol : 79

Weligton : 79

C. Zapata : 79

Samba : 79

Kaboul : 78

Ranocchia : 78

Smalling : 77

Ferdinand : 76

Bartra : 76






EPL current
Spoiler: show
CB



Kompany : 89

Terry : 86

Koscielny : 84

Cahill : 83

Škrtel : 83

Jagielka : 83

Mertesacker : 82

Demichelis : 82

Sakho : 82

Mangala : 82

Vertonghen : 81

Vlaar : 81

Phil Jones : 81

Kolo Toure : 81

Jonny Evans : 80

Shawcross : 80

Distin : 80

Huth : 80

Kaboul : 78

Smalling : 77

Ferdinand : 76




La Liga current

Spoiler: show
CB


Miranda : 88

Sergio Ramos : 85

Godin : 84

Varane : 84

Vermaelen : 84

Pepe : 83

Pique : 80

J. Mathieu : 79

Weligton : 79

Bartra : 76
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 15, 11:41

I'm liking the current look to this a lot, though I would like see some bigger gaps between players. I feel that it's important to change the weighting of TW though, for it to outweigh def. Theres many reasons for this, but the most important thing to a CB is I feel his ability work with his backline. You can have a super talented defender, whos just great at everything defensively, but working with his line... and it completly screws his entire team. Great example of this was lucio after Mourinho left, he was an absolute disaster, so bad in this regard that his contract was terminated... but he was brilliant defensively apart from this, but the lack or coordination with his teams far outweighed his strengths... you can't play a guy like that. And i'd say the opposite is true... though I'm not extremly familar with Terry, I know he is great at marshaling his backline and working in tandem with his partners. You find that quality in a lot of the best defenders, nesta, barresi, maladini and it really makes them standout defenders. So yeah.. I'd weight it at least equal with def. If this can help bring people like baresi/nesta higher into reds.. the ladder will look a lot more realistic to me. I know you said about players overall worth to the team.. like a messi will be a 100, well I feel a CB like baresi should be rated similarly overall.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby RKukosama » 2014 Dec 15, 19:50

SW Position?
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Epsi » 2014 Dec 15, 21:12

Please jurgens and vinnie, take a look at sb/wb calcs and ladder, as it's still a draft like the CB one and I'd really like to hear opinions and possible tweaks on it.

PS. I really like the CB ladder and I agree with jurgens about TW, though I wouldn't be so severe with players like Chiellini, who are pretty average in tw but still one of the best cbs around, even if slighty worse or at least equal with Barzagli.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 15, 21:13

i'll get round to it later... seems like making sb balanced will be a nightmare though.. dont even know how you'd go about it
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 15, 22:13

Epsi wrote:Please jurgens and vinnie, take a look at sb/wb calcs and ladder, as it's still a draft like the CB one and I'd really like to hear opinions and possible tweaks on it.

PS. I really like the CB ladder and I agree with jurgens about TW, though I wouldn't be so severe with players like Chiellini, who are pretty average in tw but still one of the best cbs around, even if slighty worse or at least equal with Barzagli.

i don't even know enough wb's to know how to rate a ladder, i only roughly know the difference between a sb, i couldn't give you any accurate opinions on it. About SB i've had a working idea that i wanted to get started on.

For now i'll just say that i like the AMF ladder you made. I haven't gotten anything working as well as that so far.. it's a tough one to get right.

About the sb ladder you posted, it seems like cafu should be above maicon or dani alves, it would also be good to see how prime evra/cole do, prime cole should be pretty high. Djalma Santos should have one of the highest ratings too shouldn't he? I would try to get the total scaling lower as well.

RKukosama wrote:SW Position?


i know like 5 sweepers.. in total. The position is dead in the modern game anyways, i don't see the effort to make it worth it, nor do i have the knowledge or experience to really construct a good one.. epsi could probably do it, not me.


jurgens wrote:I'm liking the current look to this a lot, though I would like see some bigger gaps between players. I feel that it's important to change the weighting of TW though, for it to outweigh def. Theres many reasons for this, but the most important thing to a CB is I feel his ability work with his backline. You can have a super talented defender, whos just great at everything defensively, but working with his line... and it completly screws his entire team. Great example of this was lucio after Mourinho left, he was an absolute disaster, so bad in this regard that his contract was terminated... but he was brilliant defensively apart from this, but the lack or coordination with his teams far outweighed his strengths... you can't play a guy like that. And i'd say the opposite is true... though I'm not extremly familar with Terry, I know he is great at marshaling his backline and working in tandem with his partners. You find that quality in a lot of the best defenders, nesta, barresi, maladini and it really makes them standout defenders. So yeah.. I'd weight it at least equal with def. If this can help bring people like baresi/nesta higher into reds.. the ladder will look a lot more realistic to me. I know you said about players overall worth to the team.. like a messi will be a 100, well I feel a CB like baresi should be rated similarly overall.


Yeah, in my original ladder there was a higher gap between the greats, Baresi was a 96, maldini a 95, i think kohler and some others went into 93/94, but then your 'good' defenders would all just sit on basically 78/79, and that doesn't feel right.

I can try increasing TW to being equal, or even over DEF, i agree with your point, but there are going to be ratings that alot of people will find hard to accept imo. Also some defenders are going to really go down.. like a ranocchia, or pepe, or even juan jesus/ kompany/ thiago silva.. all on 70-78, whereas the gods are at 86+, and i like the balance at the moment. I will try this though.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 16, 00:22

Here's cb's with tw set at 3.4, or the same as def. i didn't make it higher as the significance is pretty slight beyond 34, you'd have to go to 5 to make it relevant, and that's too extreme.



All Time

Spoiler: show
CB



Baresi : 97

Maldini : 95

Scirea : 93

Beckenbauer : 92

Moore : 92

Kohler : 92

Passarella : 92

Nesta : 92

Cannavaro : 91

Blanc : 91

Adams : 91

McGrath : 91

Bergomi : 91

Vidic : 91

Puyol : 91

Stam : 90

Hummels : 90

Krol : 90

Terry : 90

Ayala : 89

Ruggeri : 89

Sanchis : 89

Thiago Silva : 88

Kompany : 88

Costacurta : 88

Samuel : 88

Aldair : 88

Butcher : 88

Carvalho : 88

Ferdinand : 88

Bruce : 88

Lucio : 87

Campbell : 87

Miranda : 87

Montero : 87

Benatia : 87

Koeman : 87

Chiellini : 86

Carragher : 86

Gentile : 85

Barzagli : 85

Nadal : 85

Milito : 85

Materazzi : 84

Subotic : 84

Godin : 84

Koscielny : 84

Gonzalo : 84

De Boer : 84

Sergio Ramos : 83

Schwarzenbeck : 83

Couto : 83

Chivu : 83

Bonucci : 83

Varane : 82

Pepe : 82

Pique : 82

Cahill : 82

Jagielka : 82

Alex : 82

Mertesacker : 81

Campagnaro : 81

Škrtel : 81

D. Luiz : 81

Demichelis : 81

Marquez : 81

Pallister : 81

Andrade : 81

Mihajlovic : 79

Jonny Evans : 79

Juan Jesus : 78

Distin : 78

Ranocchia : 76




Current All


Spoiler: show
CB



Hummels : 90

Thiago Silva : 88

Kompany : 88

Vidic : 87

Miranda : 87

Benatia : 87

Chiellini : 86

Terry : 86

Barzagli : 85

Subotic : 84

Godin : 84

Gonzalo : 84

Koscielny : 84

Sergio Ramos : 83

Höwedes : 83

Bonucci : 83

Varane : 82

Pepe : 82

Cahill : 82

Jagielka : 82

Alex : 82

Yepes : 82

Škrtel : 81

J. Boateng : 81

Mertesacker : 81

Samuel : 81

D. Luiz : 81

Campagnaro : 81

Mangala : 81

Badstuber : 81

Demichelis : 81

Sakho : 81

Rolando : 81

Carvalho : 81

Vlaar : 81

A. Rami : 80

Dante : 80

Vertonghen : 80

Phil Jones : 80

Shawcross : 80

Kolo Toure : 79

Pique : 79

Jonny Evans : 79

Juan Jesus : 78

Distin : 78

Huth : 78

R. Albiol : 78

Weligton : 78

Kaboul : 78

C. Zapata : 78

Samba : 77

Ranocchia : 76

Smalling : 76

Ferdinand : 76

Bartra : 75






EPL current
Spoiler: show
CB



Kompany : 88

Terry : 86

Koscielny : 84

Cahill : 82

Jagielka : 82

Mertesacker : 81

Škrtel : 81

Demichelis : 81

Sakho : 81

Mangala : 81

Vlaar : 81

Vertonghen : 80

Phil Jones : 80

Shawcross : 80

Kolo Toure : 79

Jonny Evans : 79

Distin : 78

Huth : 78

Kaboul : 78

Smalling : 76

Ferdinand : 76




La Liga current

Spoiler: show
CB


Miranda : 87

Godin : 84

Vermaelen : 84

Sergio Ramos : 83

Varane : 82

Pepe : 82

Pique : 79

J. Mathieu : 78

Weligton : 78

Bartra : 75


i prefer the balance of the first draft more, because lower defenders aren't jammed so far down, but the top class defenders do differentiate better in this one.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 16, 05:25

i prefer the balance of the first draft more, because lower defenders aren't jammed so far down, but the top class defenders do differentiate better in this one.


Yeah I think I agree with both, but honestly I didn't look at the bottom people really.. now that I do, why are they so low? Like pepe is just way too low, same with demichiles/mert, any idea whats causing them to be so low?
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 16, 05:54

they're just so far away from the top defenders really.

pepe is quick and excellent physical. But he's very undermined by his lack of mentality and teamwork. When teamwork was lower weighted he could get away with it, as it was then more focused just on his defence/res, his aerial ability, and his physicality. With more weighting on TW his flaws get amplified.

Looking at mertesacker, he only has that one redeeming quality at defence, other then his 90 defence, what is he really good at? weak, horrendously slow, unagile, and his response and teamwork don't really make up for this either, he's only at 84 teamwork, 84 response. The total attribute difference between a beckenbauer and a mertesacker is 300. That means that if everything was weighted at 1, Beckenbauer would be 30 overall points higher then mertesacker. It's only because irrelevant attributes are weighted lowly that Mertesacker can somehow make a difference of 300 become only 110, or 11 overall points.

I can't solve this by raising Defence's weighting either, because think about it, if i make defence's weighting go up to 5 (which is an absurd portion, basically 25% of the total overall decided by 1 trait alone), then a pique or pepe who are at respectable values like 85/86 would then in turn be crushed, and honestly Mertesacker would not go up in relativity either, because the weighting 5 implies that for every 2 points of difference, 1 point of overall is gained. That means the difference between Baresi/moore's 98 defence and puyol 94 defence is 2 points, and the difference between that 98 and mertesacker's 90 becomes 4 points. on weighting 3.4 That difference of 8 is only 2.5. Mertesacker gets farther away instead of closer, and then the even lower defence players like say 84 defence ramos, well he's then 7 points behind just due to one trait.

Like i said, if you want substantial differences between the top top players, who are all complete in almost every regard and usually differ only by a little bit in some aspect, increasing weighting will then make differences between the very slight or subtle variations between the top top defenders.


the 'good' defenders are probably 5-6 points behind in every aspect, but still very good overall, just to get shoved down lower and lower, because the increased weighting only makes the talent difference more apparent. Like demechelis, respectable in every area, but being say 5 points lower then a top class cb at res, then 5-8 points lower then a top class cb at tw, well that adds up. if a CB identical to Demechelis had 87 res and tw, then he'd be an 85 overall versus the 81 demeichelis has at the moment.

There are advantages to making it work like this, because if you're really good at an aspect, you get an advantage there, and it can even make up for multiple weaknesses which are of lesser importance, because that trait you are good at is extremely relevant to what is demanded of you. However, often top top players are just as good at the trait you are special at, while being good/great/godly at everything else.


You said the difference between top defenders and just talented ones is in TW, well this really just shows that. Kompany goes down, lucio goes down, thiago silva goes down, and all the demichelis's etc, they don't go unpunished either. Truthfully i think you just need a balance of TW between partners, so that even if one is a bit reckless, or has a specific duty (say, man marking like gentile), then if you have a high tw partner he covers you. Most of the 'good' defenders of today, aren't that exceptional at teamwork.



How would you see them rated anyways? and for what reasons? I think overall the 82's/83's is an accurate overall for the likes of demechiles/mertesacker, defenders that are talented, but have areas that compromise them significantly. That's really the difference between the good and the great, completeness and lack of compromising weakness. A Mertesacker can just get destroyed 6-0 by pace, a demechiles can do some stupid shit or lose focus to cost you the game, a pepe can get redcarded in the world cup. The best don't, and the very good don't either, or not to the same degree. The overall balance is there imo.



If you want to see how the changes are pretty subtly significant in the key traits, look at this.

with the 3.4 tw calcs, lets take Pepe 82. Let's suppose Pepe isn't a total nutcase that can get sentoff at any moment and give him 78 mentality instead of 69. Then pepe goes to 83. Then let's say, Pepe is really strong positionally and raise Teamwork to 85 from 77, well then he's now an 85

Now let's suppose he's actually strong mentally, and has such focus that he never lets you down, and often makes a difference late in the game at key moments, with 85 mentality instead of 78.That makes him a bordering world class 86 equal to chiellini, and that all makes sense then, an 85 def 85 bb, 87 res 80's speed and jump/header, with 85 ment and tw, 86 is the ideal rating and that's exactly how it works.

The overall makes sure weaknesses are punished. Alot of these defenders or players nowadays have systems built around them to focus on their strengths while hiding weaknesses. Overall discounts their effectiveness in a given system and just says in total how much skill do you have to be able to defend?
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 16, 13:50

I've been thinking about what you said in the chat vinnie and I can't disagree with it, or anything at all really here. A players overall worth does depend on the team and system hes in... a decent CB can be a great CB if hes given the role that suits him, and the partners/system to get the most of him. I can't disagree with any of them. My problem just comes down to.. well you say that you want the ratings to repesent a players overall worth to the team regardless of position. In that sense it;s only natural that Cb's would rank lower... but my problem is that if you pick say demichiles and look at his overall and then basically anyone else in city... hes going to be the lowest rated, implying hes disposable... when in fact its the exact opposite. Hes basically one of the hardest people to replace... now hes a weird example, because hes a great defender.. but his screw ups jeopardize his team a lot... so hes not a 100% perfect example as hes not that irreplaceable. But in spite of that, city have a hard time trying to replace him.. mangala who cost a fortune isn't anywhere near as solid as demi is.... and I think that says a lot, it is very, very hard to get a solid defender. And it's nothing at all to do with the system for demi... he is solid whereever he plays, always one of the top CB's in the league (but obviously his fucks up take away from this). So for such a player to be rated so low in the teams overall worth, really doesn't sit well with me. And hes just one example.. I think if you go through alot of the top teams or even average teams the defenders will come out rating wise as being expendable.. when they will the exact opposite. I'm not sure how this could change though, you are 100% right with what you said about pepe/mert etc... there stats really don't allow them to be very high... so I don't know of a solution, but it still doesn't seem right to me regardless.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 16, 13:54

Epsi, I've taken a look at the SB thing and honestly I have no idea. The current isn't bad, but I feel it could be a lot better. The only problem is I have no idea how to go about it... the role is just far too varied. There is no standard to the role, it can work with so many differnt players and it needs to be rated to not under/over-rate all of their opposising attributes and I just don't see how you can do that really.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby viktoristus » 2014 Dec 16, 14:03

Maybe set up more overalls for each position and then the highest overall within the position gets picked for the player?

For example:

SB: Offensive SB, Defensive SB
DMF: Enforcer, Deep-Lying Playmaker
CF: Post Player, Fox in the Box

etc.

DMF: Pirlo would be low in the Enforcer rating, but score high as a Deep-Lying Playmaker.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby 420 » 2014 Dec 16, 23:34

What is the point of all this ? I mean, is there a way to get these algorithms in game ? If not, what is the use of it ?
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 16, 23:52

something to add to the editor and be used on the website.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 17, 09:17

This is just to show how the original looks like with altered scaling.. where i +3 to everyone.

List of calculated Overalls so far:

CB



All Time

Spoiler: show
CB



Baresi : 98

Maldini : 97

Kohler : 95

Passarella : 95

Nesta : 95

Cannavaro : 94

Blanc : 94

Scirea : 94

Adams : 94

McGrath : 94

Beckenbauer : 94

Bergomi : 94

Vidic : 94

Puyol : 94

Moore : 93

Thiago Silva : 93

Stam : 93

Hummels : 93

Terry : 93

Kompany : 92

Krol : 92

Lucio : 92

Ayala : 92

Ruggeri : 92

Sanchis : 92

Samuel : 91

Aldair : 91

Butcher : 91

Campbell : 91

Carvalho : 91

Ferdinand : 91

Miranda : 91

Bruce : 91

Costacurta : 90

Montero : 90

Benatia : 90

Chiellini : 90

Carragher : 90

Gentile : 89

Koeman : 89

Milito : 89

Materazzi : 88

Barzagli : 88

Sergio Ramos : 88

De Boer : 88

Nadal : 88

Subotic : 88

Godin : 87

Schwarzenbeck : 87

Couto : 87

Gonzalo : 87

Varane : 87

Koscielny : 87

Marquez : 86

Pepe : 86

Pique : 86

Chivu : 86

Bonucci : 86

D. Luiz : 86

Cahill : 86

Škrtel : 86

Jagielka : 86

Mertesacker : 85

Alex : 85

Campagnaro : 85

Demichelis : 85

Pallister : 85

Andrade : 84

Mihajlovic : 83

Juan Jesus : 83

Jonny Evans : 83

Distin : 83

Ranocchia : 81




Current All


Spoiler: show
CB



Thiago Silva : 93

Hummels : 93

Kompany : 92

Vidic : 91

Miranda : 91

Benatia : 90

Chiellini : 90

Terry : 89

Barzagli : 88

Sergio Ramos : 88

Subotic : 88

Godin : 87

Gonzalo : 87

Varane : 87

Koscielny : 87

Höwedes : 87

Pepe : 86

Bonucci : 86

Samuel : 83

D. Luiz : 86

Cahill : 86

Škrtel : 86

Jagielka : 86

J. Boateng : 85

Mertesacker : 85

Alex : 85

Campagnaro : 85

Badstuber : 85

Demichelis : 85

Sakho : 85

Yepes : 85

Rolando : 85

A. Rami : 85

Dante : 85

Mangala : 85

Vertonghen : 84

Vlaar : 84

Phil Jones : 84

Carvalho : 84

Kolo Toure : 84

Pique : 83

Juan Jesus : 83

Jonny Evans : 83

Shawcross : 83

Distin : 83

Huth : 83

R. Albiol : 82

Weligton : 82

C. Zapata : 82

Samba : 82

Kaboul : 81

Ranocchia : 81

Smalling : 80

Ferdinand : 79

Bartra : 79






EPL current
Spoiler: show
CB



Kompany : 92

Terry : 89

Koscielny : 87

Cahill : 86

Škrtel : 86

Jagielka : 86

Mertesacker : 85

Demichelis : 85

Sakho : 85

Mangala : 85

Vertonghen : 84

Vlaar : 84

Phil Jones : 84

Kolo Toure : 84

Jonny Evans : 83

Shawcross : 83

Distin : 83

Huth : 83

Kaboul : 81

Smalling : 80

Ferdinand : 79




La Liga current

Spoiler: show
CB


Miranda : 91

Sergio Ramos : 88

Godin : 87

Varane : 87

Vermaelen : 87

Pepe : 86

Pique : 83

J. Mathieu : 82

Weligton : 82

Bartra : 79





This is just to show how it would look... although it's not in sync with the balance i've been trying to make ACROSS positions, it does satisfy the vision rob talked of yesterday. Also don't overlook that there is a potential +2 to pepe just on account of aspects of his set i think can go up, so that 86 would even become 88 in the +3 scaling, or 85 in the original.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Epsi » 2014 Dec 17, 21:00

Here's some other calculations on SBs and WBs, I changed some numbers and now it looks much better; I've still divided the positions with different calcs, and different ladders as well (WB is much more of a positional and attacking position in comparison with SBs, who have much more defensive duties, so def must be higher than atk weighting for example)

Wingbacks:

91: Cafu

88: Lichtsteiner

87: Brehme

86: Asamoah

86: Maggio

82: Isla

81: Sorin

79: Antonelli


Sidebacks:

95: Roberto Carlos

95: Briegel

93: Maldini

92: Carlos Alberto

92: Dani Alves

91: Facchetti

90: Zambrotta

90: J. Zanetti

90: Maicon

89: Lahm

88: Thuram

87: Cabrini

87: Djalma Santos

87: Ashley Cole

87: Vogts

87: Armfield

87: Alaba

86: Candela

86: Jankulovski

86: Schnellinger

86: Denis Irwin

85: Sagnol

83: Nilton Santos

83: Marcelo

83: Nagatomo

83: F. Coentrao

83: Filipe Luis

82: Suurbier

82: Jordi Alba

82: Zabaleta

80: Abate

79: Pavoni

78: Evra

76: Clichy
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 17, 21:53

I'd say the newer one looks better to me, but a little over the top. I don't really know whats better though, I could go either way considering the global balance, would be nice to get some more opinions on this? Rather than just us 3 lol.
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Dec 19, 08:02

So this is just to show what i meant by the overall relations and balance, with all these different positions laddered, this shows what i was working towards, what i had envisioned. I didn't include CF as i kind of need to rework that position.
Spoiler: show
List of calculated Overalls so far:

SS Messi : 100

SS Cruyff : 98

SS Cristiano : 97

SS Ronaldinho : 96

DMF Rijkaard : 96

SS Pele : 95

SMF Hagi : 95

CB Baresi : 95

SS Henry : 95

CMF Matthaus : 95

CMF Xavi : 94

CB Maldini : 94

SS Cantona : 94

WF Best : 93

SS Baggio : 93

SMF Figo : 93

SS Rivaldo : 93

SS Stoichkov : 93

WF Robben : 93

SMF Ribery : 93

SS Raul : 92

CB Kohler : 92

CMF Iniesta : 92

CB Passarella : 92

SS Bergkamp: 92

CB Nesta : 92

CMF Keane : 92

SS Rummenigge : 92

SS Suarez : 92

WF Littbarski: 92

CMF Yaya Toure : 92

WF Giggs : 92

CB Cannavaro : 91

SS Uli Hoeness: 91

CB Blanc : 91

CB Scirea : 91

SS Aguero : 91

CB Adams : 91

SS Enzo: 91

CB McGrath : 94

CMF Deco : 91

CB Bergomi : 91

CB Vidic : 91

CB Puyol : 94

CMF Pirlo : 90

DMF Redondo : 90

CB Moore : 90

WF Johnstone : 90

SS Del Piero : 90

CMF Scholes : 90

CB Thiago Silva: 90

DMF Cambiasso : 90

SS Mancini : 90

CMF Schuster : 90

CB Stam : 90

SS Tevez : 90

CB Terry : 90

CB Hummels : 90

CMF Lampard : 90

SMF Di Maria : 90

CB Kompany : 89

CB Ayala : 89

SS Litmanen : 89

SS Zola : 89

CB Krol : 89

CMF Seedorf : 89

CB Lucio : 89

CB Ruggeri : 89

DMF De Rossi : 89

SMF Bale : 89

DMF Edgar Davids : 89

CMF Simeone : 89

CB Sanchis : 89

WF Jairzinho : 88

DMF Guardiola : 88

CMF Vieira : 88

SS Le Tissier : 88

CB Samuel : 88

CMF Fabregas : 88

SS G. Rossi : 88

CB Aldair : 88

WF Claudio lopez : 88

CMF Vidal : 88

CB Butcher : 88

SMF Candreva : 88

CMF Mendieta : 88

CB Campbell : 88

CB Ferdinand : 88

WF Caniggia : 88

CB R. Carvalho : 88

CMF Rakitic : 88

CB Miranda : 88

CB Bruce : 88

DMF Dunga : 87

CB Costacurta : 88

SS Luc Nilis : 87

WF Conti : 87

SMF Beckham : 87

CB Montero : 87

DMF Emerson : 87

CMF Ze Roberto : 87

CB Benatia : 87

CMF Effenberg : 87

SS Neymar : 87

DMF Mascherano : 87

SS Alexis Sanchez : 87

DMF X. Alonso : 87

CB Carragher : 88

CB Chiellini : 87

SS Jovetic : 87

SS Gudjohnsen : 87

CMF Thiago : 87

SS Van Der Vaart : 87

SS Cassano : 87

CMF Conte : 87

SS Miccoli : 87

SS Recoba : 87

CMF Borja : 87

SMF Jesus Navas : 87

WF Overmars : 86

SS Totti : 86

DMF Makelele : 86

CMF Kroos : 86

CB Gentile : 88

SMF Ginola : 86

DMF Paul Ince : 86

CMF De La Pena : 86

CB Koeman : 86

DMF Hamann : 86

SS Mutu : 86

SMF Reus : 86

DMF Verratti : 86

CB G. Milito : 86

CMF Strootman : 86

SS Beardsley : 86

DMF Matic: 86

SS Di Canio : 86

DMF J. Martinez : 86

CMF Marchisio : 86

SMF Camorenesi : 86

SS Asprilla : 86

SMF Cuadrado : 86

WF Kanchelski : 85

SMF Ljungberg : 85

CB Materazzi : 85

CB Sergio Ramos : 85

CMF Sahin : 85

CB Barzagli : 85

CMF Pogba : 85

CB Nadal :85

SS Palacio : 85

SS Ortega : 85

CB De Boer : 85

CMF Tigana : 85

DMF Deschamps : 85

SMF Donadoni : 85

CB Subotic : 85

SMF Kewell : 85

CMF Gundogan : 85

DMF Senna : 85

CMF Pjanic : 85

SMF Van Bommel : 85

SS Giovinco : 85

WF Keizer : 85

WF Moura : 85

WF Giuly : 85

CB Godin : 84

DMF Busquets : 84

CB Pepe : 84

SS Sturridge : 84

CMF Kovacic : 84

DMF M. Silva : 84

DMF G. Silva : 84

CB Koscielny : 84

SMF Simao : 84

CMF Moutinho : 84

CB Varane : 84

WF Waddle : 84

CMF Gabi : 84

CB Gonzalo : 84

SS Robinho : 84

SS Arshavin : 84

CMF Barry : 84

SMF Shaqiri : 84

WF Hulk : 84

SS Pedro : 84

WF Griezmann : 84

CMF Fernandinho : 84

SS Lamela : 84

SS Callejon : 84

CMF Gravesen : 84

SS Nenê : 84

WF El Shaarawy : 84

SMF Joaquin : 83

CB Pique : 83

CB Marquez : 83

DMF Toulalan : 83

CMF Redknapp : 83

SS Sheringham : 83

SMF Bertolini : 83

SS Brolin : 83

CB Bonucci : 83

DMF Assuncao : 83

CB D. Luiz : 83

SS Podolski : 83

CB Chivu : 83

SMF Krasic : 83

WF Mertens : 83

CMF Montolivo : 83

CB Cahill : 83

DMF Mavuba : 83

CMF Wilshere : 83

CB Skrtel : 83

DMF S. Kehl : 83

CMF Ramsey : 83

CMF Aquilani : 83

CB Jagielka : 83

CMF Bender : 83

CMF Cabaye : 83

SS Quagliarella : 83

SMF Arda Turan : 82

CB Mertesacker : 82

WF Walcott : 82

CMF Koke : 82

CB Alex : 82

SMF Nani : 82

CB Demichelis : 82

CB Campagnaro : 82

SS C. Vela : 82

DMF Nicky Butt : 82

CB Pallister : 82

CMF Nainggolan : 82

SS Lavezzi : 82

DMF I. Helguera : 82

WF Gervinho : 82

DMF Inler : 82

CMF Ray Wilkins : 82

SS Vucinic : 82

SS Kuyt : 82

CMF Paulinho : 82

SMF Joe Cole : 81

CB Andrade : 81

DMF Sven Bender : 81

SS Donovan : 81

SMF Maxi : 81

CMF Carrick : 81

DMF Biglia : 81

CMF Henderson : 81

DMF Ambrosini : 81

CB Mihajlovic : 80

WF Agbonlahor : 80

CB Juan Jesus : 80

DMF Gattuso : 80

SMF Milner : 80

CMF Banega : 80

DMF Luis Gustavo : 80

CB Jonny Evans : 80

CMF Dembele : 80

CB Distin : 80

SS Michu : 80

CMF Bradley : 80

SS Menez : 80

SS Munian : 80

CMF Flamini : 80

SMF Gokhan Tore : 80

SS Welbeck : 80

SMF Mcgeady : 80

WF Deulofeu : 80

SS Ljajic : 79

SMF Quaresma : 79

CMF Joe Allen : 79

CB Weligton : 79

CB Mathieu : 79

DMF Jon Obi Mikel : 79

DMF Javi Garcia : 79

SMF Lennon : 79

SMF Ben Arfa : 79

CB Ranocchia : 78

SS Markovic : 78

SMF Sterling : 78

DMF Albelda : 78

SS L. Muriel : 78

CB Kaboul : 78

SS Iago Aspas : 78

SS Ibarbo : 78

DMF Iturraspe : 77

CMF Fellaini : 77

SMF Ashley Young : 77

SMF Mirallas : 77

CMF Sissoko : 77

SMF Oxlaide-Chamberlain : 77

CMF Ramires : 77

SS Borini : 77

SMF Feghouli : 77

SMF S. Larsson : 77

CB Smalling : 77

CMF M. Suarez : 77

CB Bartra : 76

SMF Zaha : 75

CMF Freddy Guarin : 74

SMF Großkreutz : 74

SMF Konoplyanka : 74[/b]
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Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Epsi » 2014 Dec 20, 17:02

this is really a hell of a job, really appreciate. I like more or less the balance between them too.

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