Naby Keïta

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Naby Keïta

Postby PES Stats Database » 2017 Feb 25, 12:47

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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby mr.Boss » 2017 Mar 04, 17:32

I will make some suggestions on him based on what i have watched . He can play even as a SMF so that position should be added . His passes in overall looks a bit better IMO ( i had him on mid greens before he was added in PSD ) and his ATT , Attacking Prowess and AGG should also go a bit up cause to me he looks as a CMF who can score and who helps even the attack . And the last thing is his STA which looks too high IMO , he just played a good half season with Leipzig and he already has the third highest STA value in Bundesliga :shock: . Even if he has showed very good stamina , i think that is too early to have him on this crazy value ... With the actual set he looks 99% like Kante while i don't think that they are that similar :?
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby amine » 2017 Mar 04, 18:30

You have to keep in mind that this is a draft, not fully fledged set. I've seen about 7 games of his before making it. It was added to fill the gap and start a discussion (which it did, so I'm very happy about that).

mr.Boss wrote:... He can play even as a SMF so that position should be added.


I don't think I've ever seen him play as SMF, but if he does in the future it'll be added.

mr.Boss wrote:.. His passes in overall looks a bit better IMO...


They do indeed, SPA/SPS might be better but I was unsure of what to give him because he rarely tries anything complicated, just simple forward punts. His long passing on the other hand is BAD, simple as that, it's always out of the mark.

mr.Boss wrote: ATT , Attacking Prowess and AGG should also go a bit up cause to me he looks as a CMF who can score and who helps even the attack.


That part should be covered by the RES/AGG combo (which reminds me I should update it) In terms of actual offensive apport/danger he's not much better than this.

mr.Boss wrote:... the last thing is his STA which looks too high IMO , he just played a good half season with Leipzig and he already has the third highest STA value in Bundesliga :shock: . Even if he has showed very good stamina , i think that is too early to have him on this crazy value...


Stamina has little to do with where or with who you play with, it's a physical attribute you either have on not. When I saw him he regularly displayed insane levels of energy, he's with out a doubt worthy of an orange value. Although I'll concede it, I'm have gone overboard a little.

mr.Boss wrote:... With the actual set he looks 99% like Kante while i don't think that they are that similar :?


The thing is, they are; they have the same build, the same physical aptitudes and almost the same roles. Keita has just a slightly better technical ability, and better offensive apport. It's not a bad thing, quite the contrary, it's mouthwatering prospect. Imagine Kanté with a decent end product? That's SCARY.

I know the sets look similar (only for now) but there are little key differences that should make both sets play differently.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby staubsauger » 2017 Mar 04, 21:20

I'm very surprised about the technical stats in this set and that it is said here that he is just slightly better than Kante, because in my eyes he is quite a lot better than Kante and his offensive display is very good for a CM. The numbers are speaking for him as being the CMF with most scorers in Bundesliga (4 goals and 8 assists in 21 games). He is a very capable short passer and in my eyes he isn't playing just simple passes, I saw quite a lot incisive and well-timed passes of him especially for Werner. His understanding with Werner is very good (Of Keita's 8 assists 6 were for Werner) thanks to the very good positional sense of Werner but also the feeling for good timed short passes of Keita. I would go without any doubt for high greens or even low yellows in SPA. I have to agree with long passing, otherwise than it is the case with short passing his long passing isn't really good or dangerous.

His dribbling skills are also good in my eyes, saw quite a lot good and explosive dribblings with close ball control mostly through the midfield beating 2 or more opponent players so that is why he has such a good (and deserved) DS in the set I guess. But I see also DA in (low) yellow region and agility better. In depend of Dribbling style he is quite comparable to Levin Öztunali but Levin is a little bit better in depend on beating opponents and having a close ball control.

All in all he is such a machine and has without any doubt the potential to be world class, just so complete for his 22 years and this season one of the very best CMFs in Bundesliga.

My suggested numbers are:
Attack: 70-->74 (Att>Def and good offensive display in my opinion, could be maybe higher)
Agility: 80-->84
Dribble Accuracy: 78-->81 or 82
Short Pass Accuracy: 75-->79 or 80
Short Pass Speed: 75-->77
Technique: 77-->79
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby jurgens » 2017 Apr 29, 01:18

This is a really good set, great job. I've tried to catch what I can of this guy and all I can say is, hes all over the place.. both on the pitch and in his abilites. His dribbling is just everywhere, making terrible traps and some really heavy touches, but he gets the job done nonetheless. I feel the same with his passing, though his short is decent enough, his long is as aimar said... just bad. Not even sure what hes attempting some times they are that bad, but he usually does have nice ideas. Oh, and hes defintly more agile than this, it's one of his best traits, hes ability to turn at the drop of hat extremely fluidly. I was keeping his eye out on his weaker foot usage as he seemed quite comfortable using it in awkward situations, but I wasn't able to come to a conclusion with it... something to keep an eye on.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby KeyserSoze » 2017 May 02, 17:37

I've read all those comparisons between him and Kanté... Not that they are totally wrong, but he's much more similar to Matuidi imo, since both of them tend to maximize their level as all rounders despite not being the most technically midfielders around.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby staubsauger » 2017 Sep 24, 12:27

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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby Ocrin » 2017 Dec 01, 02:05

Everytime I watched him he looked like a different player from what this set depicts. Hopefully consistent Bundesliga followers can give us more insight.

First, he looks a bit better technically. Not consistently good in tight spaces, but probably a 81-82 for both TECH and DA.The technique is there, but most of his dribbling ability comes from of his motion. His overall balance is very good, probably around 87 in Body control.

His tackling and ball winning just don't look that good, BW looks a good 10 points too high IMO, he's just not that good at tackling and not as aggressive/efficient (defensively speaking) as this value implies. He has good hounding skills because of his workrate but IMO he isn't a talented tackler/defender, which that value depicts.

His short passing could use a slight upgrade too, he can pick up decent passes but his range looks really average. Not sure about SPS, but SPA could be 80.
On the other hand, from what I've seen, his long passing is basically non-existent. Maybe we could use an even lower value to reflect that?

EDIT: Also, I see a slight gap between his ATT and DEF, probably 72-69 respectively.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Dec 03, 20:47

you've said everything that i've been thinking for a while. naby is a good dribbler in my opinion, he's really good at dribbling with speed, but he's also capable of slinky turns and nimble deftness on the ball. i think he is similar to the level of wilshere, a bit less graceful and quick on the ball but a tad more agile.

i've had the same thoughts about his tackling. rough, often imprecise, and he fouls unneccessarily alot. i don't think he's much of a tackler- he does his job, and he's no scholes, but he's not a skilled tackler in my opinion

for his passing game, what i see alot is really hyper-aggressive forward passing on his ground passes. i see keita constantly trying these directly penetrative ground passes where he tries to send an attacker through on goal. his ideas and vision are often impressive, and dangerous in my opinion, but he is actually overaggressive in how often he tries these penetrating ground passes, while his accuracy is also really really sloppy, to the point where i question if he should even be on yellow spa- but because of the types of passes hes trying and does make, i think i cann accept rating naby at around 80 spa. sps is decent in my opinion, about mid yellows. overall i rate naby from high greens to at most 80 spa, with mid yellow sps and passing star. i've checked the latest draft i have saved though and i leaned towards high greens, at 77 spa

i've had these general impressions since the spring, but i've been reluctant to comment because amine and jurgens seemed to have their own strong view that's against that. i wonder if their opinions are still the same since then though? i'd like to read more from their point of view.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby amine » 2017 Dec 04, 10:06

He’s always been a purposeful passer and he’s definitely improved over the course of the year and he’s gotten a lot more incisive indeed, but he still struggles with finding the right weight for his passes (they’re either overhit or underhit) I was trying to replicate this tendency but I could not come to anything conclusive myself. I posted about it a few months ago in the mod section, waited two days, but got no response about it...
All I can say atm that I still see him as a green spa type of player simply because his skill still doesn’t match his vision, I’m also unsure on sps as it fluctuates from one game to another.

Ocrin wrote:... His tackling and ball winning just don't look that good, BW looks a good 10 points too high IMO, he's just not that good at tackling and not as aggressive/efficient (defensively speaking) as this value implies. He has good hounding skills because of his workrate but IMO he isn't a talented tackler/defender, which that value depicts.

vinnie wrote:... i've had the same thoughts about his tackling. rough, often imprecise, and he fouls unneccessarily alot. i don't think he's much of a tackler- he does his job, and he's no scholes, but he's not a skilled tackler in my opinion.

tbh I don’t understand how you came to this impression, reckless or not if the ball is within his sight he’ll go for it, he might not be a savvy defender but he’s efficient enough to achieve what he set out to do. This is where he compares to Kanté imo their ability to recover the ball from anywhere. For a team that plays as narrow as Leipzig it’s a huge asset.
There’s also the matter of which player he’s been partnered with, his levels of freedom are wildly different and dependant on his partner; if it’s Kampl then he’ll be able to roam and go for situations he wouldn’t because Kampl is smart enough to recognize his teammates intentions and runs and then provide cover/support, he brings out Keita’s duality up to light. On the other hand if it’s Demme/Ilsanker his defensive side would definitely be a lot more prominent, because of their specialised nature. This was the case last year when I made this set.

I have to say I’m really happy to see feedback on him, I thought people had given up on him once things went stale and I was secretly hoping interest would pick up once he moved to Liverpool, so I was waiting for that to happen before making any significant change.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Dec 09, 20:07

amine wrote:He’s always been a purposeful passer and he’s definitely improved over the course of the year and he’s gotten a lot more incisive indeed, but he still struggles with finding the right weight for his passes (they’re either overhit or underhit) I was trying to replicate this tendency but I could not come to anything conclusive myself. I posted about it a few months ago in the mod section, waited two days, but got no response about it...
All I can say atm that I still see him as a green spa type of player simply because his skill still doesn’t match his vision, I’m also unsure on sps as it fluctuates from one game to another.


yeah, he's very very adventerous, but a really unreliable passer as far as accuracy goes. I really am impressed by his vision though, i can't think of a player as bad as he is at passing that tries as many forward passes aimed through and behind the defensiive line like Naby tries. it's debatable whether he should be trying these passes at his success rate, but i admire the vision he has, and the ability to see these runs. he also might eventually improve his accuracy level to somewhere more justifiable through sheer persistence.

Ocrin wrote:... His tackling and ball winning just don't look that good, BW looks a good 10 points too high IMO, he's just not that good at tackling and not as aggressive/efficient (defensively speaking) as this value implies. He has good hounding skills because of his workrate but IMO he isn't a talented tackler/defender, which that value depicts.

vinnie wrote:... i've had the same thoughts about his tackling. rough, often imprecise, and he fouls unneccessarily alot. i don't think he's much of a tackler- he does his job, and he's no scholes, but he's not a skilled tackler in my opinion.

tbh I don’t understand how you came to this impression, reckless or not if the ball is within his sight he’ll go for it, he might not be a savvy defender but he’s efficient enough to achieve what he set out to do. This is where he compares to Kanté imo their ability to recover the ball from anywhere. For a team that plays as narrow as Leipzig it’s a huge asset.
There’s also the matter of which player he’s been partnered with, his levels of freedom are wildly different and dependant on his partner; if it’s Kampl then he’ll be able to roam and go for situations he wouldn’t because Kampl is smart enough to recognize his teammates intentions and runs and then provide cover/support, he brings out Keita’s duality up to light. On the other hand if it’s Demme/Ilsanker his defensive side would definitely be a lot more prominent, because of their specialised nature. This was the case last year when I made this set.


its hard for me to debate on this, i've just thought over the last couple monthes that his tackling is sloppier and less precise or clean than i expected. That's what i meant by saying he's no scholes, but neither is he a skilled tackler in my opinion- he just gets the job done by putting in challenges when he needs to. i haven't had the chance to watch much of him across a full matchh though so i might not be seeing all there is to his defending.

I have to say I’m really happy to see feedback on him, I thought people had given up on him once things went stale and I was secretly hoping interest would pick up once he moved to Liverpool, so I was waiting for that to happen before making any significant change.

i didn't comment because i saw the discussion in the thread and wanted to be more sure, but i didn't have the ability to concentrate on watching naby as i've been focusing on other players, so i just watch vids once in a while. naby is a really interesting player though, in my opinion. it looks like coutinho and can are leaving liverpool, and i think naby has qualities to make up for both in a crude jack-of-all trades way- the attitude to try through balls and drive forward with the ball (though not coutinho's technical level), but also the box-to-box work rate.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby jurgens » 2017 Dec 18, 17:57

Started watching him again to see what vinnie and ocrin say about his dribbling, as I respect their opinions, but I was pretty damn sure I didn't get the wrong idea of his dribbling, as to me it was sloppy as hell.


Going back, I just get the exact same ideas. Hes sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. Yes, he can move the ball forward, he can dribble with it decently, but his control is poor, his touches are often heavy, and when precise movement is required, he falls short. To me, hes the defintion of a green DA player. He has some nice control here and there, but too regularly erratic and loose.

this is a good example of him, https://youtu.be/ii7oYbk0pCc?t=193 what even is this? Every touch is erratic, heavy footed, there was no danger. I'd expect a yellow da/tech player, to have no trouble in this situation, to tidly keep possession. Although that is harsh moment to highlight, it's an apt representation of what sort of limitations he does have as a technician.

I feel the exact same as amine regarding his passing. Good vision, poor execution. As I said before, hes just all over the place, his technicality is very average, but he plays like he has a far better all over technique than he actually does.
Probably he could be given passer, with low spa. I honestly question if he deserves green at times, but I understand the intent, it's hard to find a balance.

I do agree with lower def though, hes not a clean tackler, just an aggressive ball winner.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Dec 21, 00:35

i don't disagree with that, he's definitely sloppy, and can look really incompetent- but he shows a skill in his dribbling forward overall that i think is more than just the overaggressive daring to try the dribble- he can really be smooth and elusive. I actually had a Naby set that i was going to post a few monthes ago or so back, but then i saw the update and you and amine's comments which were really different from my impressions so i put it aside to reconsider, but when i took the time to continue watching to check my impressions, i still saw about 83-84 DA with quite good ds and agillity overall. Someone that i think of who was capable of really high DS but had very limited dribbling ability is someone like Manchester era paul Ince. When i see Naby i see a similar rhythm and level of control to Wilshere- less graceful, but more nimble. There are some examples i think from some NT performances that i'm thinking of which more clearly show that dribbling control, when i can i'll try to go find them.

when i watch Naby i see him try so much stuff that is well beyond the tendency of someone of his technical level. But he tries relentlessly and seemingly with no hesitation, and overall i think he is still creating more chances than what he gives away through sloppiness and misaccuracy, so i still have some level of appreciation for Naby's vision and cunning, even if it's really questionable if he should be as daring as he is.

in the same vid you link he does a turn where he controls the ball with his back while turning towards the opposition goal- that is absolute suicide if he doesn't have not only the vision and awareness of the space behind him, but also just the audacity to try that regardless. Few players would be aware of that space to turn into, almost none would take that risky of a control to shave seconds off by using the back to control instead of just receiving with the chest/foot and turning, but Keita does. I've not made up my mind about whether this is justifiable risk taking, because it's a part of his overall style and decsion making process, but it's certainly unique.

i'll just say that in my mind i think of some high greens DA but mid/high yellows DS dribblers, and they're just unable to maneuver in tight spaces and shimmy like Naby does. I can use Ince as an example again as he was pretty agile for his physique as well, but other than changing direction quite well, he couldn't really control and adjust the ball while he was trying to spin and punt the ball around a marker, and i see that difference to what Naby does which is show the abillity to move the ball while he's turning and weave into smaller spaces.

i'll try to find some examples later.. i'll keep what you say in mind meanwhile.
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Re: Naby Keïta

Postby bitz » 2017 Dec 21, 10:10

I'm surprised no one talks about his TW, the support his provides is immense. He is the black version of Xavi Hernandez. Teamwork should be equal, if not higher than his Stamina. Also his DS should be lower. He uses it very situationally and he already has a decent burst of speed thanks to the decent ACC/AGI combination.

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