Łukasz Piszczek


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Łukasz Piszczek

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 11, 19:58

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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby braindead » 2011 Nov 08, 19:05

I understand but i like to see if he develops until winterbreak, because as you can see dortmund is not so used the double or triple pressure from participating at league,cup,champions league and the nationalplayers
I rather wait...
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby kajoj20 » 2012 Mar 29, 14:09

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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 May 08, 18:39

He's a very good RB imo and I'm surprised he doesn't get more attention. He could use higher ATT, STA, crossing, AGG etc. Hope the BL mods have an update in mind.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby s-cobar » 2012 May 08, 18:41

Kruger and me have updates in mind about the whole league. just Bayern is finished. But you`re right - he was probabaly the best SB in the last two season in the BL.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 May 08, 18:47

Good to hear, can't wait for the Dortmund updates. Not a big follower, which will change, so I can't do much myself.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Kruger13 » 2012 May 08, 20:33

Yes, he was outstanding this season. I was going to post about him but looks like i was a bit late. For me, he is actual best attacking side back of 1.Bundesliga. So, he can be rated as it 77-78 ATT. He was always criticised by his defensive performances but all matches i saw him he was very good not only at positional sense but at covering his team mates errors. I think with actual RES he can do it as irl - Konami give 77 to him. But BVB is like s-cobar said in Schmelzer thread, is a team so is hard to rate it correctly. Piszczek had a good understanding with Kuba. All BVB have a good chemistry, they work as a team and not as individuality. I think that is why were bad at UCL: 1) Young/Inexperience Players, 2)They were beated with individuality his team system. 3) Bad luck. Well, back to Likas, i don't find this agile so it can be decreased maybe a couple of points. Think his TW can raised too, and of course his passing abilities, specially long ones. STA can be orange. Thoughts?
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby KillaKlo » 2012 May 09, 01:45

Top Speed should be some points over Acc, he kills his opponents on long runs (all these overlaps when he get balls from midfield) but he is not unbeatable from startup (I'd say TS 86/87, Acc 82). SPS a bit over SPA.

Agree with slower Agility, his Dribblings are very linear.

Orange Stamina isnt necassary I think. He didnt improve there. He doesnt constantly move up and down the pitch, he just knows when it's effective to move up.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Fantasista » 2012 Jun 12, 23:40

I think his response could be a bit higher. He reacts quite quickly to loosen balls. Stamina could be orange though, but no higher than 91. KillaKlo explained it perfectly-he doesn't run all the time but he move very wisely and effectivelly.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby s-cobar » 2012 Jun 25, 09:03

IMO you like to overrate him - much mor eimportant is that he deserves at this Euro on an international level that he`s rated much to high in defense. So many times, where players run away in his back. He`s pretty nice on the side. willing to run, good ideas. much attacking sb, solid defender - but never on a high 60s. by all respect, to much bad runs in the way back
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Malakayi » 2012 Jun 29, 23:55

what s-cobar says bothers me about many side-backs for a long time, look at Van Der Wiel for example. Defensively he's even worse than Piszczek and sits there with a 67 for DEF, I don't know the reason, maybe because he played CB in 1 or 2 games for Ajax, 62 would be the right number for him I guess. 64/65 for Piszczek respectively.
In my opinion we should be more harsh with side-backs in case of ATT/DEF numbers, there are very few outstanding players like Lahm or Ashley Cole who deserve high values because they are so good or extremely specialized but most side-backs are rated very generously in these aspects.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Kruger13 » 2012 Jun 30, 00:41

Completely agree. Both said the true. Piszczek shouldn't sit over mid 65 in DEF but the problem is PSD unity, different criteria between mods. But someone has to start the revolution. I was going to give him 64 and decrease Rafihna to 62 (just small example) but i bet that if i did that i was going to receive a lot of critics for that, you can read previous posts suggesting a higher value than current. Crazy imo.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jul 13, 04:09

Technically he is pretty poor. He is really unagile, his dribbling and tech are both very sloppy as is his passing and crossing, crossing a lot of the time goes nowhere. I don't think he is anything special in attack either, I think 77 is a value for a very intelligent sideback, which I wouldn't say he is. I don't think hes higher than 84/85 TS either.

I'd propose

BB: 82
DEF: 65
resp: 78
DA: 78
ATK: 75
agi: 75/76
tech: 78
lpa: 79/80
TW: 79
ment: 78
TS: 84/85
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby KillaKlo » 2012 Jul 13, 15:37

So you mean, he isnt agile, he cant dribble AND he isnt intelligent in his attacks? Then, what makes him the most dangerous full back of the whole league? ;)

I agree that he is not agile and his touch tends to be sloppy sometimes. But his attack is exceptional in my eyes. He knows exactly when and where to go, he can go down the line and is able to tuck in and he uses spaces very precisely, his decisions are also good. Attack is one of his main skills beside his speed in my eyes. I like the current value.

I'd set his DA over his Tech. Once he controls the ball, he is quite accurate, the first touch was always his bigger problem. Both are a bit inconsistent i think. On some days he looks like DA 83, on others like 77. Tech 78 is okay i think, but I'd keep his current DA.

Agree with TW, Ment, LPA.

Def: Surely he defends more by using his physical skills, but 65 is a crappy value in the ladder. That's worse than 80% of the rest of the league. His def is not bad at all in my eyes, he is nothing special but he is okay there. I don't see why he have to be under 67.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jul 13, 15:53

So you mean, he isnt agile, he cant dribble AND he isnt intelligent in his attacks? Then, what makes him the most dangerous full back of the whole league?


Oh I don't know, his speed off the ball, his speed on the ball, decent power, stamina, decently intelligent, works good with the team works good in bvb's system? I don't think hes the most dangerous in the whole league, for me thats lahm without doubts. Hes much more intelligent in his movements, and really dangerous just due to his positioning.

Btw, I didn't say he couldn't dribble. You don't need high DA to be an effective dribbler, it just defines how much control you have over it. He doesn't have much control over it, that doesn't mean hes not effective in game. With high TS and DS, regardless of the DA value you are pretty effective.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby čale » 2012 Jul 13, 16:28

i share jurgens' point of view regarding ATT, he's similar Lichtsteiner (to a degree) both of them have extraordinary intelligence and off the ball movement, but they don't pose a threat and aren't directly dangerous, it's just movement and going with the flow and tempo and then finding a channel to exploit, it's the reason why KONAMI gave Licht such high TW (85) and good ATT for a SB (74). Now on the other hand, Marcelo (of RM) is far more dangerous and incisive as he attacks directly, gets involved in team play, plays occasional through balls and does much more what a winger or a forward would do, and IMO both Lich and Piszczek aren't comparable to him in terms of pure attacking intelligence. I've got Licht rated at 75 in my OF and on the same number on PSD if i recall correctly and i just can't see Piszczek being over Licht, in fact, i can't see him being better at all, Piszczek for me is a 74, 75 on a stretch.

As for DEF, i feel that we in particular are far to generous with that stat on full-backs, Piszczek is miles from a good defender and far away from a decent defender, i'd call his defensive ability (tackling, positioning, ability to shut channels) poor. He's constantly exposed with his adventurous forward runs and is a liability when trying to defend as a unit, his lack of defensive ability is rarely exposed though in BvB as they play possession football and mostly have the ball at their feet so the occasional blunder is fast forgotten. i'd settle on a 60.

Moving on...AGI on a yellow number is more than generous, he isn't fluid in his movements and struggles on the simplest turns. he can't even make a decent 90 degree turn without stopping for a sec and then sluggishly trying to accelerate again. 76 for me.

As for pace, agree, he ain't as fast as an 86, 84 would be nice and as i already said in my last sentence, ACC is a concern for him as well, he ain't over an 80 in my books.

as for general passing, i find him to be quite poor and he wastes a lot of balls resulting in a turnover in possession. his tendency to try them on a more constant basis might have given the impression that he actually knows what he's doing. agree on the aforementioned 78 in LPA and i'd also take his SPA and SPS down to 74 and 75.

agree on TECH 78 and DA 78. i'd just like to say that i find him as a 80, 81 at a stretch for TW given the reasons i've explained in the opening paragraph, and MENT at 78 still looks a tad too high for me...
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Malakayi » 2012 Jul 14, 01:39

KillaKlo wrote:Def: Surely he defends more by using his physical skills, but 65 is a crappy value in the ladder. That's worse than 80% of the rest of the league. His def is not bad at all in my eyes, he is nothing special but he is okay there. I don't see why he have to be under 67.


In my book there is a need to widen the range of how many points in ATT or DEF make a good / bad SB. Currently green values in ATT / DEF are considered world class, even higher numbers are very uncommon (excluding hybrids like *CB/SB, *SM/SB etc.). On the other hand, as you said, a 65 in DEF as well as in ATT would be a crappy number in most top-leagues' ladder. What? I think it's very strange that the range between world-class and bad as crap should be just about 10 points.

Defining a Side-back being good or bad in these departments is like them being black or white at the moment. There is a lack of shades of gray. I like the idea of green values being the max for ATT/DEF on a SB but the minimum numbers could go even lower imo. Especially regarding players like Fuchs or Piszczek whose play relies heavily on their physique (STA, BB, Speed etc.).

Let's face it Side-back is the position that makes most managers struggle to find the adequate player for their respective team. There's such a huge difference in quality on that position, very few world-class players like Marcelo, Lahm, A. Cole etc, some with the potential to become one of them in the future and many more that are just mediocre. There are many SBs that are overrated in ATT and / or DEF, who sit on a 65 when they should have a 59 or something near that number. After all Side-back is a hybrid position and very few players are able to interpret their role so that you could call them intelligent. Also we have very few countries that are especially working to create skilled SBs in their youth systems, I'm thinking about Brazil, Mexico, Italy and Spain there.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby KillaKlo » 2012 Jul 19, 02:26

@juergens: I basically agree with your post, I over-interpreted your word choice (sloppy dribbling, not anything special). Though I think his attacking is more than "decent". But maybe we just use different words for the same thing.

i share jurgens' point of view regarding ATT, he's similar Lichtsteiner (to a degree) both of them have extraordinary intelligence and off the ball movement, but they don't pose a threat and aren't directly dangerous, it's just movement and going with the flow and tempo and then finding a channel to exploit, it's the reason why KONAMI gave Licht such high TW (85) and good ATT for a SB (74). Now on the other hand, Marcelo (of RM) is far more dangerous and incisive as he attacks directly, gets involved in team play, plays occasional through balls and does much more what a winger or a forward would do, and IMO both Lich and Piszczek aren't comparable to him in terms of pure attacking intelligence.

I fully agree with your view on the players but I think that exactly this should give Piszczek a high value in Attack. Marcelo attacks much more directly because he is much more skilled. His ball controle is a completely different league than Piszczek's. That's why he can do much more with it. Piszczek is quite limited in the things he can do with the ball. The reason why he does dangerous things though is his attacking intelligence.

I'm still not sure what's the consensus is about how to rate Attack. If it's "movement intelligence", he is exceptional in my eyes. Taking into account his built-up play and his vision (I thought both is more TW and passing?), then surely Lahm is better. Is there any clean definition?

Malakayi wrote:
KillaKlo wrote:Def: Surely he defends more by using his physical skills, but 65 is a crappy value in the ladder. That's worse than 80% of the rest of the league. His def is not bad at all in my eyes, he is nothing special but he is okay there. I don't see why he have to be under 67.


In my book there is a need to widen the range of how many points in ATT or DEF make a good / bad SB. Currently green values in ATT / DEF are considered world class, even higher numbers are very uncommon (excluding hybrids like *CB/SB, *SM/SB etc.). On the other hand, as you said, a 65 in DEF as well as in ATT would be a crappy number in most top-leagues' ladder. What? I think it's very strange that the range between world-class and bad as crap should be just about 10 points.

agree with that.

As for DEF, i feel that we in particular are far to generous with that stat on full-backs, Piszczek is miles from a good defender and far away from a decent defender, i'd call his defensive ability (tackling, positioning, ability to shut channels) poor. He's constantly exposed with his adventurous forward runs and is a liability when trying to defend as a unit, his lack of defensive ability is rarely exposed though in BvB as they play possession football and mostly have the ball at their feet so the occasional blunder is fast forgotten. i'd settle on a 60.

I have no idea how you come to this view, honestly. I watch every Dortmund match and can't remember any real defensive mistake of him during the last season. You are describing maybe the Piszczek from two years ago when he came to Dortmund, back then he was a permament threat for his own defence and made a lot of mistakes. In the second season leg he got a bit better and during the last season he defended cleanly. In the first match against Bayern this season he killed Ribery in several 1-on-1s, look at Riberys set, could a Piszczek with this phisique and a bad Def Value as 60 dominate him?

Btw - to say that Dortmund plays "posession football" is really wrong. They can play that but they do a lot of counter-attacking (just 54% posession, very low for a top team) and the reason for that is their exceptional pressing, probably the best in the whole world. Klopps philosophy is all about defending. They very very rarely do any mistakes, be it collectively or individually. Given such a team you cant say that their possesion football covers the defensive mistakes of the players, that's so damn wrong...
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby čale » 2012 Jul 19, 04:50

i never said that their possession football covers for the mistakes of their players. i said that they "mostly" which doesn't necessary mean that they play it constantly...and what you described in Piszczek's defending is TW, not DEF, TW is related to acting as a one unit with the D-line, not DEF, DEF is related to tackles and stuff, TW is related to how he works with the backline and how good he is at executing the offside trap. BvB play similar to Juventus, so i know what i'm talking about, and as i said in Perišić's thread, i have Eurosport and i watched at least 20 BvB games + DFB and UCL last season, if it weren't so, i wouldn't be posting here...
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Kruger13 » 2012 Aug 02, 00:33

Updated - Summing suggestions. DEF value can be low for some users but i want to stretch gaps in some stats. Current BL-ladders are mainly oudated. So, from now, watching Rafinha at 60, Piszczek at 63 and some other players with "extreme" values will be very common here.
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Re: Łukasz PISZCZEK

Postby Cichy1993 » 2012 Nov 27, 14:35

For me piszczek is good like a Marcelo. One of best right side back in Europe, if not the best!

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