Matthijs de Ligt


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Matthijs de Ligt

Postby PES Stats Database » 2017 Jul 05, 10:16

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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby antony » 2017 Jul 05, 10:17

Very technical skilled CB, an added playmaker for the team. Better in the short passing that in the long ones for the moment, still not this very incisive but for sure he is the numbers to be one of the best in those skills. In other hand, he is still very disordered i mean he is too young really and feels the pressure.. in the debut with NT was absolutely shocking against Bulgaria and got replaced at the end of first half, i think low ment/tw are a must for him nowdays. I've noticed that he tends to dribble a lot and isn't strange to see him does marseille roulette to past the opponent and often goes to the opponent area to try to shoot and i see his shots very interesting.. powerfuls and accurates. Maybe he isn't that strong physically CB at all, however he has the lenght and the weight to be.. assigned 82 but i'm not 100% sure, in some duels looks stronger, in other weaker than this.. he has to improve, about speed he is decent.. not fast and not slow, also he recovered a lot their lacks in positioning i've noticed.. him and D.Sanchez have in this their mains and probably only great problems for now. About aerial ability seems very good, some very notable jumps i've noticed from his matches.

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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby FernandoA13 » 2018 Feb 19, 21:28

Spoiler: show
Attack: 66
Defence: 79
Balance: 86
Stamina: 80
Top Speed: 78
Acceleration: 74
Response: 82
Agility: 69
Dribble Accuracy: 77
Dribble Speed: 73
Short Pass Accuracy: 78
Short Pass Speed: 75
Long Pass Accuracy: 76
Long Pass Speed: 82
Shot Accuracy: 68
Shot Power: 85
Shot Technique: 69
Free Kick Accuracy: 65
Curling: 67
Header: 79
Jump: 83
Technique: 76
Aggression: 70
Mentality: 73
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 68

Condition/Fitness: 5
Weak Foot Accuracy: 5
Weak Foot Frequency: 5

ATTACK / DEFENCE AWARENESS: 2/3

NEW STATS:
Attack Prowess: 66
Defense Prowess: 79
Ball Winning: 81

This is my set for de Ligt right now. Because he certainly deserves a small bump in a few areas. Has been a constant factor this season with 18 years old. And now playing with a ultra attacking minded CB next to him. He isn't making those very childish mistakes anymore. Which is quite a big improvement considering his age. I certainly think he should atleast be an 85 for bb. When he doesn't win a challenge it mostly has to do with players that can turn quick and one of his flaws is that he doesn't turn quick, not very agile. That's why i suggest a drop in agility. But regarding pure strenght and balance by itself, this kid is a freak, I am talking Jaap Stam potential! His legs are like trees. Babyface killer. His RES has improved a lot aswel, he just matured so much in one year.

If Ajax could keep this squad with Carel Eiting coming up, they would do serious damage. Eiting 6, Frenkie at 8 and vd Beek playing as 10, Dolberg 9. De Ligt becoming better and better. They would have great young minds in the centre of the field who play full attack.

One of the things i am being conservative about is his MENT. Yes, he is young. But i never saw him give up or really look devastated. He is one of the players that just doesn't give up. Look how he is dealing with the pressure. I can't state enough times that this kid is 18. Ajax is jacob the juwler right now with all these young diamonds in the squad.
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby Delden08 » 2018 Sep 19, 13:21

Currently at (73) as CB. Lower then Tagliafico or Blind or Veltman which he clearly outshines by far. He could use an overal bump on Defence, Balance, etc.
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby Slizzard » 2018 Dec 17, 12:13

De Ligt won the goldenboy award and he definetely deserves it.
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby Whoah10115 » 2019 Apr 10, 21:39

Always surprised by how broad this guy is.
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby lito5 » 2019 Apr 16, 22:35

great header goal vs alex sandro and rugani (Bonucci was also close), winning with great leap and great timing, very solid header nice goal from corner,his good command of the air game is very well represented, but possibly today's goal is indicative of a progressive advance in his aerial game by winning the times and winning a few kilos of muscle and strengthening the bones, very central effective in clearing the ball and cutting centers, good passer, dangerous in plays to stopped ball, good score. is a great promise for the future (it is already present is excellent central but if you continue with this evolution could follow the line of Stam, Van Dijk ,,,,) is a possibility but at the moment is light years from them two
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby Slizzard » 2019 Apr 17, 10:44

lito5 wrote:great header goal vs alex sandro and rugani (Bonucci was also close), winning with great leap and great timing, very solid header nice goal from corner,his good command of the air game is very well represented, but possibly today's goal is indicative of a progressive advance in his aerial game by winning the times and winning a few kilos of muscle and strengthening the bones, very central effective in clearing the ball and cutting centers, good passer, dangerous in plays to stopped ball, good score. is a great promise for the future (it is already present is excellent central but if you continue with this evolution could follow the line of Stam, Van Dijk ,,,,) is a possibility but at the moment is light years from them two


Well he is only in the picture for two years, so it’s inpossible to be on the level of Stam who had a whole career. But in terms of what De Ligt shows on this age, I can tell you VVD and Stam are LIGHTYEARS away from De Ligt. I nothing weird happens(choosing wrong club or injuries) and he continues his development. He can become an all time great.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby jupes » 2019 May 11, 10:39

I am not exaggerating when saying that De Ligt’s performance this CL season has been one of the great displays of DF leadership I’ve seen in any tournament.

He has been the bedrock of an otherwise rickety-as-hell backline. Almost reaching the final, scoring goals and leading by example along the way. And all of this at effing 19 years of age.

Indeed, I would be surprised if he doesn’t turn out to become an all time great on the basis of what he has shown so far. In 5-10 years we might be looking back and scratching our heads at these ratings.
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Re: Matthijs De Ligt

Postby jupes » 2019 May 11, 19:50

Slizzard wrote:
lito5 wrote:great header goal vs alex sandro and rugani (Bonucci was also close), winning with great leap and great timing, very solid header nice goal from corner,his good command of the air game is very well represented, but possibly today's goal is indicative of a progressive advance in his aerial game by winning the times and winning a few kilos of muscle and strengthening the bones, very central effective in clearing the ball and cutting centers, good passer, dangerous in plays to stopped ball, good score. is a great promise for the future (it is already present is excellent central but if you continue with this evolution could follow the line of Stam, Van Dijk ,,,,) is a possibility but at the moment is light years from them two


Well he is only in the picture for two years, so it’s inpossible to be on the level of Stam who had a whole career. But in terms of what De Ligt shows on this age, I can tell you VVD and Stam are LIGHTYEARS away from De Ligt. I nothing weird happens(choosing wrong club or injuries) and he continues his development. He can become an all time great.

Just checked, and for reference: Jaap Stam was still playing amateur football at DOS Kampen when he was 19. Van Dijk had only played a handful of games in FC Groningen’s first team at this age.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Oriello » 2019 Jul 17, 22:59

antony wrote:Allegri?


Hhahhah Allegri left!

I stopped following Juve closely after 2017/18 season - did not see he had left till now!...oh yeah now I recall in discord someone mentioning the bank manager going to Juve. Sarri i can see trusting a young guy and giving him a longer chance...the price might factor into it - but he is no Harry Maguire!!!

Rugani and de Ligt were/are on different levels, but I think a large part of that is perspective, Rugani only domestic praise, de Ligt because of CL got more widespread notice - I wonder if Rugani had a starting place in that Ajax team for past couple seasons would he do much worse?


So for you de Ligt will partner Chiellini?


EDIT
I was posting that reply when the site went tits up, the posts from before are missing since PSD got rolled back.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Whoah10115 » 2019 Jul 18, 01:23

[/quote]Rugani and de Ligt were/are on different levels, but I think a large part of that is perspective[/quote]

That's the thing. Not saying De Ligt isn't better than Rugani, but Rugani has it and he's been given no chance. Tho it is to be noted that Allegri was the manager.

Also worth noting that Sarri was interested in Rugani when he got to Chelsea.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Epsi » 2019 Oct 07, 08:01

as I said on Discord... he's overrated in Defence! Been following him since he arrived at Juve and by now he's been a mess (but rapidly growing up and improving his performances). He's a prodigy, no one can deny this, he's just 19; but he relies too much on his instinct, uses too much physique, and his defensive flaws are overexposed in an extremely defensive and tactical league like Serie A. Tbh, he played much better on UCL than in Serie A. I probably rate him as Rugani's level in defence atm, but since he's just 19 and he has already extraordinary physical stats, I'd go for a 79 for defence.
For new gen attributes, I would probably give 86 BW and 90 AGGR.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby AdAc » 2019 Oct 07, 14:44

After a single month in a new Country with new play-style, new habits and new language? Really? The history of football is full of players that needed months for showing their qualities (and the history of Juventus too; I can say Zidane, Platini, Nedved, Buffon...)

Give him time
Last edited by AdAc on 2019 Oct 07, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Ocrin » 2019 Oct 07, 14:53

That's true, but quite frankly, that DEF is also overrated regarding what he's shown at Ajax, INCLUDING his LDC campaign where he was shaky on more than one occasion.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby AdAc » 2019 Oct 07, 15:17

I wouldn't go under a conservative low yellow value for Defense (for now at least)

After all, he had very good performances too in this start of the season


Off topic: Sarri and the responsabilities made Bonucci great again (like years ago)
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Epsi » 2019 Oct 07, 17:50

it's quite easy to understand whether a player is a yellow defence or not. Looking at the past and to players that have become top defenders (Chiellini), I see him on green def. Chiellini used to be green too.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby jurgens » 2019 Oct 07, 17:57

He wasn't even good in the ucl defensively, I kept pointing out his mistakes, but hype was too big and people insisted on higher numbers, that was wrong. Talented, extremly physically well rounded, and technically sound, great at playing football, not a great mind defensively. Too young, too inexperienced, too naive.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby Basilio » 2019 Oct 15, 01:26

This post was meant to be on Demiral, but could go anywhere really, gonna address the above though.

I am perplexed that comments like the two above me are propagated with such authority. Those things you have pointed out are not clear to me, not by a long shot. Not by any measure by looking at any sets of ratings in either the Pes or the PSD universe for values like defence, attack, response, teamwork... which are not in any case so drastically distinguishable as to justify a professional 99 points scale. We want to rate everything intuitively, but intuition works with very small data sets, completely ignoring the vast amount of information beyond its "right here, right now" focus area. Its irresponsible to do this, inefficient by all fronts, and its not covered by assigning "legacy" values.

After the France-Turkey match in which I was focusing on Demiral I thought: He has a high risk high reward style. More aggresive and ball winner than Bonnuci, similar to Chiellini and De Ligt, but he is so aggresive that sometimes he goes over the top and commits fouls.

So I went to look at some stats in whoscored.com , and I found out they have a pretty decent amount of stats evaluated to work with, so I decided to do a simple equation in order to have a quick idea of how some centrebacks compare in defence.

I analyzed Tackles, Fouls, Clearances, Dribbled past, and Blocks. The equation was: Tackles - Fouls + (Cleareances/4) - Dribbles past + (Blocks/2). I dont claim its anyhow the most accurate to evaluate defence, as I dont carry the data about their impact on the game (but noone seems to carry any data at all for defence stat anyways), I just made it through intuition.

Out of that equation I analyzed some players with their 2018/19 season (football dynamics have shifted overtime, not sure how my equation would do with other seasons) and it got me these values:

Van Dijk 2.25
Koulibaly 2.1
Chiellini 1.525
Demiral 1.4
De Ligt 1.3
Davinson Sanchez 1.3
Bonnuci 1.05

Obviously defensive stats are influenced by physicality, both in style as in success. Faster and stronger players go more for tackles, and thus achieve more but get dribbled past more. But higher physicality players also seem to commit less fouls than what would one imagine, as they know they can impose themselves on a player without requiring to foul them. Therefore I tried to control those stats for physicality represented with the average of ts, acc, bb, and agility. Which gave me this numbers:

Physicality

Van Dijk 82 (gave him 86 ts as it was suggested in his thread he was faster)
Davinson Sanches 80.25
Koulibaly 79.5
De Ligt 79
Chiellini 77.5
Demiral 77.5 (I gave him 88 balance)
Bonnuci 74.25

This suggest small changes in physicality have a big impact on a player defensive stats.

After that I tried to make some kind of algorithm that would make sense of these stats, but I found none, PSD and PES ratings for stats like these are only somewhat better than random, theres simply no way one can justify De Ligt, Demiral, or Davinson Sanchez low defence while Chiellini, Bonnuci, and Van Dijk get awesome ones. I certainly can not do it as a viewer either, I frankly dont see how Bonnuci, classy and clever as he is these days, is a more effective defender than De Ligt or Demiral, and he is 6 and 11 points above them respectively. I cant understand how a player like D. Sanches is crucified with low defence when he has fine stats, or how in other continents is a sin to give a player over 80 defence, or why because a single error in a season a player gets 5 points less in defence. Koulibaly recently made an own goal you know... Matip has better whoscored ratings than Van Dijk this season... We create supreme monsters and wheelchair defenders when their true skill disparity is marginal. PSD historic blindspot, assuming players are omniresponsible for their team results... coaches and variance matter you know.
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Re: Matthijs de Ligt

Postby jurgens » 2019 Oct 15, 02:57

Using defensive stats to justify a CB's defensive capability is very wrong imo. It's really not hard for a defender to run around everywhere, and do a fuck load of mostly, mundane defensive work, clearances, interceptions, etc.
I can easily point a finger at Ranochia, who used to have some crazy stats for this defensive work, and he was good at it, quite good, but mindless. And thats the key. All these players can do the same job, they can all tidy up lose balls, they can all make interceptions, they can all do the mundane work. Of course players are going to be similar in that regard. But using that to draw comparisons to their defenisve capability is odd to me. By that logic we can pretty much just take anyone from anywhere, and slot them into a top backline, and expect them to perform.

What matters is the reliability and security to make the right choice, to shut things down when the situation is actually threatening, the likeliness of making a mistake, and how many positional errors they make that hurt their partner and team, punished or not being irrelevant.

theres simply no way one can justify De Ligt, Demiral, or Davinson Sanchez low defense


and Van Dijk get awesome ones.


On the contrary, you can justify it in number of ways.


I frankly dont see how Bonnuci, classy and clever as he is these days, is a more effective defender than De Ligt or Demiral,


See, define "effective"

But you know how our stats work, players take awhile to get high stats, and a long time to lose them. We can't be going up and down like crazy every year for every player.

I cant understand how a player like D. Sanches is crucified with low defence when he has fine stats


Because those stats are largely irrelevant. Anyone can have "fine" stats, it doesn't tell you the full picture. A classic example would be Otamendi, great defensive stats, more than "fine". But everyone can see that this guy is a disaster waiting to happen, constantly exposing his partner, poor judgement, positional errors left and right. I can say the same for an endless amount of players.

The amount of security a player has, when things matter, is what defines our ratings, not how much cleanup work they are capable of.

or how in other continents is a sin to give a player over 80 defence


Because of a lower level, that hasn't been tested.

or why because a single error in a season a player gets 5 points less in defence.


Doesn't happen.

Koulibaly recently made an own goal you know... Matip has better whoscored ratings than Van Dijk this season..


Neither matter.


assuming players are omniresponsible for their team results


When you fuck up five times in one match, it doesn't matter what the result was, you are insecure and liability. We aren't rating based on results, ever.
We are watching players and how they perform, when it matters, the result is irrelevant at the end of the day, it's the performance. Honestly, what you said there is the complete opposite of PSD's philosophy when it comes to rating.
Juve are top of the league, they havn't lost, we are watching De ligts overall performance, not whether juve win or not.

when their true skill disparity is marginal


Go tell that to the clubs spending 100's of millons on players to find a secure CB partner. Marginal disparity in how much tackles they make, interceptions, etc, sure I'll agree with you on that. But decision making, positional astuteness, coordination with your partner? The disparity in these traits can be absolutely staggering, even among top players.

I do like some of your points however, I just don't agree with the logic behind some of it.
The one thing I think you are trying to say, and I largely agree with it is, the defensive contribution of players like De Ligt. I would never, ever value what he can do as worthless, it's the exact opposite, players like him are a huge boon to teams, but we are really limited in how we can rate stats, how do we imply the good with the bad? Can you not deem the quality that players like De ligt bring to their team from our stats? Great physicality, high response etc. Because if not, that is a major concern, and something we may need to think about.

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