Javier Mascherano, Hebei China Fortune

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Javier Mascherano, Hebei China Fortune

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 14:09

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Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Oct 23, 09:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby AhoyDaniel » 2015 Feb 12, 22:07

what a beast.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby martins7 » 2015 Jun 07, 17:09

I think his DEF can be somethink like 2 points higher , he is really excellent in tackles.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby Roy » 2015 Jun 07, 17:31

Yeah he should be higher than Pique. I find Mascherano to be the better tackler of the 2.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby 2headedEagle » 2015 Jun 07, 17:35

For me his response is in orange zone , I also agree with DEF raise .
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby Epsi » 2015 Jun 11, 18:43

Isn't time to set him definitely as CB*? Plus a mandatory tweak on defence and response (87 and 89 in my mind).
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby furymaker » 2015 Jun 11, 21:29

He's still DMF from time to time at Barca and always at DMF , but I changed him to CB and updated .
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby pelimetal » 2015 Jun 11, 22:03

IMO he is DMF as first position. At Barça he learned how to play as CB and he does it more than good.
As you said @furymaker, he has played many times as DMF with Luis Enrique as the coach, mainly when Busquets got down his level, so CB is only an option.
By the way, good update.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jun 11, 22:25

has to be DMF
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby furymaker » 2015 Jun 11, 22:49

I'll reverted it back to DMF , I was against this change too :D
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jun 13, 02:11

btw, can't agree with this def value for DMF. I agreed that he should be higher up in the past and gave him an 85 , but that was the absolute max. Hes now the highest rated dmf of all time in def, over makelele, over cambiasso, over keane. Not on these guys levels overall, just better at slide tackles. Also don't agree with the 89 response either, why do we need to keep making people so overall monstrous, when they are already monstrous? Mascherano isn't even that good of a CB, he has so many flaws positionally and cooperatively. If we are to rate him as a cb, he can't have anywhere near this good a set. But he should be rated as a DMF and as a DMF he isn't close to this resp or def.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby furymaker » 2015 Jun 13, 10:37

reverted him back to 85 DEF and 87 RES
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jun 14, 09:50

I think we really need to make a separation in his stats, or at least get some conclusions on how to rate him. As a CB, he is nowhere near this level, 85 TW? Hes so far away from that, so so far away. I'd argue hes not close to 8 form or 93 ment as a CB either. I know the stat should apply pretty globally to all positions.. but it doesn't with him. Hes just a fucking boss in the midfield, he is not in CB. But the ment and TW work for DMF. He is natural and at ease there, both positionally and cooperatively.. thats just not him at cb. But those two distinctions make the world of differce. I think we really need to decide do we just keep him as a much better CB than he actually is by not adjusting his set. Or do we give him two different sets? He is without a doubt a DMF. Hes the most DMF out of all DMF's currently playing. But it's not a bad idea to give him a seperate set, if not a set at least additional stats based on cb position.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby fitzcarraldo » 2015 Jun 14, 12:47

Just remove CB.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby furymaker » 2015 Jun 14, 13:44

Such a contribution to resolving issues , please , we need more guys like you .

What happens if we decrease his TW and Ment to adjust his CB playing style , will he perform a lot worse as DMF ? If this is the case then I support the idea of 2 sets , even tho having 2 sets for 1 player is annoyance for people playing the game using these sets , they'll have to create another Masche or edit everytime they play and need another one . It's definitely good here on PSD to have 2 possible sets for him , since he's quite a different player when he's playing for Argentina . Maybe an alternative 2nd set in spoiler under the default one ( this one as DMF main position ) .
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby Major general Woof » 2015 Jun 14, 16:21

It's not worth sacrificing his quality in primary position because of secondary. Plus Barcelona's defensive system isn't very graceful to defenders with their last line so high, so Mascherano won't be as overrated as in some other system. That's just how I see it.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby fitzcarraldo » 2015 Jun 14, 17:42

furymaker wrote:Such a contribution to resolving issues , please , we need more guys like you .


In the end this suggestion will be the best one.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby Epsi » 2015 Jun 14, 18:52

furymaker wrote:I'll reverted it back to DMF , I was against this change too :D



so why updating him? I'm not the Law, I can be wrong too. I was just trying to open a debate about it. I actually think he should be CB* now though.. and he's a better defender than Pique in all regards imo.
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby furymaker » 2015 Jun 14, 20:13

Epsi wrote:
furymaker wrote:I'll reverted it back to DMF , I was against this change too :D



so why updating him? I'm not the Law, I can be wrong too. I was just trying to open a debate about it. I actually think he should be CB* now though.. and he's a better defender than Pique in all regards imo.

it was my first day as a mod , you know when global mod suggest something you go on and listen to them :P Rookie mistake :mrgreen:
Positioning wise Pique is better , also he's better in air ( mostly because height adventage ), Masche is more responsive ( has better reactions ) , he's faster and his reading of the game + tackling ability are better than Pique's but they work the best together because they are very different , Masche is vocal leader and that obviously something Pique has missed since Puyol left + dedication and game shape .
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby BigStu » 2015 Jun 15, 09:44

as he plays now as a first choice CB, swap the set to rate him as one, and keep the set in a spoiler, or even better make it an extra set on the DB just for the NT with the currnt set
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Re: Javier Mascherano

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jun 15, 11:06

Epsi wrote:
furymaker wrote:I'll reverted it back to DMF , I was against this change too :D



I actually think he should be CB* now though.. and he's a better defender than Pique in all regards imo.


Why though? Hes not just any old DMF, hes literally one the absolute best DMF's of the last 15 years. I've been watching him since 2002 (or so) and it was so clear in everyones eyes that saw him, even back then, that argentina had some very special DMF in the making, at such a young age he was a fucking boss in the mid. Hes been a mainstay in the NT ever since, not just a mainstay, the backbone of the team at DMF . Every one knew as soon as he was put in CB at barca that it was an absolute waste, hes been very mixed. Solid when untested to shaky/borderline disaster when he is tested. No one remembers all the times hes got so much shit in the chat for being a royal fuck up in cb? And what about when people actually seen him playing dmf? Remember the world cup? Just scroll back to it in the thread, people are astounded by how fucking good he is at DMF. It was the exact same in the chat, all of a sudden a shaky CB is a god level DMF.

I really want to know why we should make one of the most natural and best dmf's of the last 15 years a CB when he isn't even half the player at cb. It's like a manager making RVN a amf, sure he could do a decent job I'm sure due to his technical prowess and understanding of the game, but it'd be a fucking travesty to football and something everyone would have problems with and no one would ever agree with making him an *AMF, why is it any different for Masch?


efender than Pique in all regards imo.


that pile of shit? rolando is better than pique in all regards.

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