Alexandre Pato

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Alexandre Pato

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 13:50

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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 20, 00:16

Well... I never saw Robinho (94), Diego (93) or David Silva (95) perform traps like the 5 I mentioned on my last post.



Or the one you mentioned earlier.

6.
Anders wrote:
Spoiler: show


There is no way a fluke would happen six times. In truth, Pato did incredible traps like this much other times. Even when he played bad for Brazil National Team, his traps were still amazing.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Anders » 2013 Feb 20, 00:44

Can't talk about Diego, but both D. Silva and Robinho truly deserve those values. And none of those examples are true red first touches.
Those are true red control:
Spoiler: show


And you may click in here if you want to see some insane shit. The entire video is worth btw.

Pato is great, but there's several players over him. Just listing some of they in Brazil:
97 Ronaldinho;
92 Deco, A. D'Alessandro, Ganso; ( You can't say he's better than our triplet, can't you? :D )
90 Seedorf, Zé Roberto, Alex;
89 Neymar, Barcos;
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 20, 01:05

Well, this examples you posted are really amazing. I never doubted about Thiago Alcantara or Valdivia. But Pato's traps are incredible too, because his control over the ball is so clean while running, without changing speed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this 3 examples of Thiago and Valdivia are 99 examples, while the examples I posted about Pato are around 91-96. Maybe I'm rating incorrectly, but that's my impression.

I remember watching an interview of Abel Braga, when Pato had just moved to Milan. He told that wichever the way you give the ball to Pato, his is capable of control it. Robinho is a great dribbler, but I don't think his first touches are better than Pato's. I know that Pato is sometimes a player that lacks motivation and maybe he wander a lot of Barbara Berlusconi during his games... But his first touches are always amazing. Well, you'll notice this better now that he is on your team. Just remeber this conversation while you watch his matches from now on. He traps the ball so nicely, that you feel it's easy.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby midnight » 2013 Feb 20, 16:54

as far as im concerned and refering to the traps you've posted , those could be replicated with high yellows very well , really. he might be in an equal level with Pedro rodriguez but nothing higher , i dont watch him consistently i have to say , but hes far from reds for sure .
Thiago is well rated at 95 imo , you must have underrated the effect of such high value as a 95 or a 96 , those are given to a very few number of players over the world , players with an amazing trapping and that are able to show it consistently over and over again,while Pato is a great one but nothing astonishing imo , id personally have him at a 89/90 , somwhere between balotelli and pedro . the 87 he currently has is underrating him i agree with that.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby pedala robinho » 2013 Feb 21, 03:25

Sorry, but Pato is for sure low oranges for TEC. I'd say the 90 stated by midnight is pretty much the right value for him. He should sit over Neymar, but under Ganso, just for the sake of comparison. Just because he doesn't show those magnificent glued-to-foot trappings doesn't mean he's just a "good trapper". What he does is even harder. He always traps the ball with his next move on mind. Try it yourself: throw a ball in the air and just "stop" it. You'll see it's much easier.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby FernandoA13 » 2013 Feb 21, 14:30

pedala robinho wrote:Sorry, but Pato is for sure low oranges for TEC. I'd say the 90 stated by midnight is pretty much the right value for him. He should sit over Neymar, but under Ganso, just for the sake of comparison. Just because he doesn't show those magnificent glued-to-foot trappings doesn't mean he's just a "good trapper". What he does is even harder. He always traps the ball with his next move on mind. Try it yourself: throw a ball in the air and just "stop" it. You'll see it's much easier.

I agree Pato's technique is good. His first touches are very good. If Huntelaar sits on 92. I cant see why Pato shouldnt be 90.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 21, 16:15

When you say that a player is more "technical" than the other, you are talking about a series of aspects of that player. For example, Ganso, Seedorf or Deco are far more technical than Alexandre Pato. Yes, that is true.

But, in the sole aspect of First Touch, I personally think Pato is better than this 3. When Pato played for Milan, it was clear that his First Touch was better than even Ibra's. You can watch any Pato's Vs., and you'll notice how astonishing his ball control is. A lot of long passes that Ibrahimovic could not trap, Pato could. But of course that, overall, Ibra is far more technical than Pato. He has more DA, Passing values, or Shot Accuracy, for example.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby jurgens » 2013 Feb 21, 23:32

This is sad to watch. One side claiming pato always had a better touch than ibra, when did you ever watch them? Honestly. The other claiming those aren't red traps, around 90? Several of them are 95 traps. Busters .
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby pedala robinho » 2013 Feb 22, 03:35

jurgens wrote:This is sad to watch. One side claiming pato always had a better touch than ibra, when did you ever watch them? Honestly. The other claiming those aren't red traps, around 90? Several of them are 95 traps. Busters .

Dunno what is so sad about a few people gently expressing their different opinions, but well...
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 22, 21:29

jurgens wrote:One side claiming pato always had a better touch than ibra, when did you ever watch them? Honestly


Well, I've watched almost every match of Ibra when he played for Barcelona. Although, I've never watched when he played for Internazionale, when I think it was his best moment in football. I've watched some games of him in AC Milan, and I watch him eventually in PSG. He is an incredible player, and his First Touch is really impressive, but I personally prefere the actual vallue of Konami (93) for his Ball Control. He is amazing, but I don't see him flawless. I think Xavi is better than him in this aspect. But, hey! This is my opinion. You're free to think in a different way and I'll defend to death your right to express it. Despite my disagreement with you, I'll respect your opinion.

I've watched Pato playing a few games in AC Milan when he played with Ibrahimovic. In this games, I had the feeling that Pato was better than Ibra in trapping the ball. I also noticed him playing for Brazil National Team in the beginning of the work of coach Mano Menezes, and there I could analyze even better his First Touch. The team wasn't well synchronized yet, so the defenders tryed very often long passes to the forwards. It was there that I noticed that his ability to trap the ball was out of this world. Not just because he trap the ball beautifully, but because his astonishing abillity manifests with great frequency. Some players are able to make one move that take your breath away, because this solely first touch was so flawless - like the video that Anders posted about Valdivia. I've never saw Pato perfoming something like that, wich seems to defy the gravity. But, in the other hand, I think his first touch is much more consistent and frequently better than Valdivia.

Well, that is my opinion. Pato is not the best Forward (maybe he is not even Top 25) of the world, but I'd say his First Touch is Top 10 of all the players of the world in the moment.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby jurgens » 2013 Feb 23, 07:56

pedala robinho wrote:
jurgens wrote:This is sad to watch. One side claiming pato always had a better touch than ibra, when did you ever watch them? Honestly. The other claiming those aren't red traps, around 90? Several of them are 95 traps. Busters .

Dunno what is so sad about a few people gently expressing their different opinions, but well...


Sad was a poor choice of words, and did not get my thoughts across. Disconcerting was the word I wanted, but could not find. It's disconcerting to see one side claim a touch better than Ibras, and the other no better than 89, despite the fact their is very clear evidence of 95+ traps. With such contrasting opinions, an accurate value will never be found, and that was the "sad" I was referring to.

All I'll say is Patos value was assigned while we were in "old standards" and before we had that many players assigned 90+ tech. Once new standards were set, he was injured too much to ever get any real focus on his stats.. injured and when he was playing out of match fitness and far from his best. Making it very hard for him to get reviews on his stats. But, when he was fit in the past.. his exceptional tech was noted (before new standards were introduced). I've followed a considerable amount of his AC carrer in the past and from my recollection, hes always shown very high levels of ball control, what the value is though is hard to decide. But he has pretty consistently shown at least orange.


but I personally prefere the actual vallue of Konami (93) for his Ball Control.


It's criminally under-rated and just another random decrease by konami. There is only 1 or 2 people in the world who can trap a diffuclt ball like ibra can.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Dimon » 2013 Feb 23, 10:09

Very interesting discussion, but I'm with Anders here. Examples from Amaterasu don't convinced me (btw, I don't see any example of red as jurgens said) and I never saw Pato on such a high level in terms of first touch (I saw fair of count of games with him to make a judgement). I think 90 is quite enough for him.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby FernandoA13 » 2013 Feb 24, 11:38

I agree with Jurgens about Ibra. Ibra is red material for sure (TECH). But conclusion we can update Pato to oranges right? More people agree on it.
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby KunAguero » 2013 Feb 24, 12:00

I agree on higher technique
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 25, 14:27

It just happened this weekend again.

Spoiler: show


The guy misdirected a shoot in close range to him, and Pato trapped it so swiftly to score this goal. Everyone who ever played football knows it's not easy to control a crazy shit like this.

*I'm not saying it's a red first touch. But it's not easy. I'm just saying that his abillity is constant, frequent. I think this is a parameter to consider when rating someone's Ball Control, isn't it?
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby KunAguero » 2013 Feb 25, 14:36

yesterday , he scored goal with a great technique
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Amaterasu » 2013 Feb 28, 18:09

@Anders, you've watched yesterday's match against Millionarios, right? So, what do you tell me about his traps there? I couldn't found yet on the net the specific first touch that I want to show you, but I think you can guess wich one it is. It was red, for sure.

-------
Edit: Here it is http://youtu.be/NH5gbRNyRVU?t=8m46s
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby Basilio » 2013 Feb 28, 18:40

Indeed i saw that on live, luscious. that's better than Ive seen Pirlo doing and glaringly superior to M. Oyola's(91). Any reason for this stamina though ? old standards much ? Perhaps his SA can be reviewed too
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby midnight » 2013 Mar 09, 18:42

well, its this kind of traps that makes me think that an orange should be suficient for him :
Spoiler: show
Spoiler: show

its just that those traps are really spread and performed with mid yellow (villa has 87 in this vid) or even lower (exactly the same control with an 80 tech player) value players quite often , the 95 seemed just too much , i guess pes 2013 has lost a lot of precision or its the rating range that became wider , dunno .
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Re: Alexandre Pato

Postby jurgens » 2013 Mar 09, 18:52

Please, don't ever post a vid from 2013 as for why we should rate a value like this. 2013 is nonsense, stats are almost irelevant in that heap of shit.

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