Andrés Iniesta, Vissel Kobe

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Andrés Iniesta, Vissel Kobe

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 10:56

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CLASSIC SET(S): 2011-2013 & 2009-2011 & 2004-2006

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Oct 23, 09:07, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby abdou » 2017 Feb 15, 23:41

1 year and 6 months since last update, I think he need a update , a downgrade on some stats like STA and DA and SPA and LPA... and an upgrade on Body Control must be, he is on decline and inconsistant due to many injuries.

STA : 81 max , He is nowhere to have 86.

SPA : I think 93 is good number since he is not a playmaker since the change of the style of play, he is CMF more now he play mostly simple pass like Busquets in the midfield, he is not incisive like before and he can't be better than Messi.

DA : same like SPA, i suggest 94 max he is not like before, he don't take too much risk and get forward with the ball but he still have good touch, also compared to Messi he isn't close to him.

LPA : 85-86 max. He is far from Modric, He don't use them too much but when he use it he do it good, he is close little bit to Neymar.

Body Control : 88 I think. he is better than Neymar.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby toaad » 2017 Apr 20, 04:47

Stamina in the same number as Fabregas is the maximum of maximum for him, unfortunately he doesn'tt have the same intensity in his game...
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Fixer » 2017 Apr 20, 08:15

He's always been unprolific as hell. At Spain NT at least he's the king of the cut back pass but at Barça his impact on the offensive game is very little once near the box. Great for the build up but useless once there. His passing stats are way too god-tier for what he has been displaying for a while already honestly, even though you can't really rate his passing due to his assist rate which is minimal, I still believe he doesn't need anything near those values for short passing atm (and I find it hard to reckon he has deserved values near those for less than half a season in his entire career)
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby furymaker » 2017 Apr 20, 09:10

id say between 2008 and 2013 he was worthy of those numbers, but not anymore
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Korinov » 2017 Apr 20, 13:25

Nah, even during last season he had some good matches where he was still capable of insane passes. Right now he's just in the middle of a clear decline, and the team around him is not helping.

On the other hand, he's probably been unworthy of green TS for a while. He's the kind of player that gets outpaced by Isco, of all people. Form shouldn't be higher than 4.

I'd really like to read vinnie or rob's opinion on this one, though. A proper update when the season ends would be nice.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby jurgens » 2017 Apr 20, 14:55

To me hes still by far the best short passer in the world, or rather his cap is the highest, maybe others are consistently better, but they can't hit the highs he can. It's just a seldom occurrence that he does it, but when he does he plays passes that no one else can even begin to attempt, insane speed and difficulty. The fact that he doesn't use it much could well be a reason for decrease though. I thought he was absolutely brilliant last year, btw. Cleary declining but still an absolute genius.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby toaad » 2017 Apr 29, 15:12

jurgens wrote:To me hes still by far the best short passer in the world, or rather his cap is the highest, maybe others are consistently better, but they can't hit the highs he can. It's just a seldom occurrence that he does it, but when he does he plays passes that no one else can even begin to attempt, insane speed and difficulty. The fact that he doesn't use it much could well be a reason for decrease though. I thought he was absolutely brilliant last year, btw. Cleary declining but still an absolute genius.


The last El Clasico was proof of that. He has an arsenal of passes that probably no current player has.
Unfortunately the intensity of his game is very low because of physical issues, thats why think that the all physical values ​​should be much lower than the current but with the same numbers in technician.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby sunsaegnim » 2017 Aug 16, 11:33

I think that his Condition/Fitness shoulde be decreased, maybe to 4 or 3? He rarely plays consecutive games nowadays, that's sad btw.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Korinov » 2017 Sep 03, 09:57

I've tried to pay attention to his performances this past month.

The set probably doesn't need many nor massive changes, overall he's still the same player. His physique has declined obviously and he clearly does not have the engine of a couple years ago, which is what this set right now represents.

While his supportive game is still very good (and I wouldn't really touch that TW value), he plays in a pretty 'relaxed' way, I guess trying to conservate his stamina as much as possible. Jogging around all of the time, no sprinting at all off the ball, only allowing himself brief bursts of speed when on it. His speed on the ball is mostly nice still, and while I'm not sure he deserves something like 85, he's still good enough for yellows no doubt. Stamina however, and specially TS, need to go down. As it happened with Valerón a few years ago, TS plays not part in his game whatsoever, so it won't make any difference even if it's put below 70. I'd say Stamina should be around low-mid greens, perhaps? Despite his relaxed playstile, he usually gets subbed off in the second half many times, and doesn't probably have the engine to play several matches in a row when the calendar gets stacked. His Acc however is still good and a tool he relies on, to nice results. Same for Agi.

Other than that, Form 4 and I'd go for an ATT downgrade. He plays fully as a CM nowadays, his main weapon is his ability to retain posession and then release killer balls forwards. In terms of passing he's easily one of the best in the world still, the combination of precision and power he's able to reach is head and shoulders above all the other midfielders in the Spanish NT. He's so good at it he can allow himself to play quite deep, just approaching the box from time to time. In such a position he poses no scoring threat whatsoever, and while he retains his ability to destroy defences with a single pass, he won't be providing assist-potential passes as much as he would do if he were playing in a more advanced position in the pitch. He still has the vision and the skill to create very dangerous passes from where he plays, and that as much could leave his ATT on yellows, but only barely as I see it. RES should be going down as well, to whites probably, for the most part his drive going forward and taking advantage of profitable situations in and around the box is long gone.

So, 80 att, 76 sta, 68 ts, 72/73 res, 81/82 ds, form 4?

Edit: his match yesterday.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Sep 03, 21:59

i'd agree with ts needing lowering, 68 ts seems a bit low but i'd be fine with it if ds isn't changed, and like you say it no longer plays any real part in his game. res needs a downgrade too.

i watched the match yesterday and i was surprised by how good iniesta still was in his support movement- there was no thiago to compare, but iniesta was easily the most supportive layer on the pitch, moving constantly and without fail to keep the teams shape and leading presses. the teams structure really near collapsed when iniesta was subbed, but the match was over by then- and it wasn't a like for like replacement either given that it was morata for iniesta.

i was surprised by how well he kept his level through the match given his level of movement. he got subbed at the 75th or so minute? and didn't really seem too fatigued at the time of his replacement. i thought iniesta showed a decent level of stamina in the italy match and was the clear second best player after isco.

in the past i've thought that iniesta needed to be dropped from the 95 tw that he had before, so i don't have anything against the value he has, and yes italy set their team up horrendously, but iniesta looked like his best in his support against italy. and given how well he sustained that movement rather than being visibly tired earlier in the match, i'm a bit hesitant to lower stamina to that low. how do you think messi compares to iniesta? very different roles in that comparison, but i think there's still a big gap between the two in energy use and stamina to iniesta's advantage.

i think you're right though that iniesta is coming into the stage of his physical ability where he struggles to play week to week. i think his actual peak ability is still not that far off of his best, but he lacks the condition to play at that level anywhere near regularity. i think iniesta has been the best passer in the world the last 2 years, with xavi and pirlo out of the picture. he played two or three beautiful passes in the italy game so easily, with such control and range- like you say this is how he can be so dangerous still.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Korinov » 2017 Sep 03, 23:11

Fair enough about DS. In regards to TS I'd really like to use players like Iniesta in order to make statements about our view on stats, similar to what we did to Xabi Alonso's DS in the past.

The comparison with Messi is interesting, as Messi can be extremely deceptive in that regard. He can seem hyper-active at times, appearing everywhere in the last third, taking control of Barça's offensive play. That may give the feeling he is energetic, but it's just him choosing very carefully when to spend his energy. As I see it, Messi has been employing a "start-stop" system (like in modern cars) for years: he mostly slumbers, just jogging or even walking around the pitch and doing nothing when his team is not on the ball. Even when his team gets the ball, he's very careful about what degree he implicates himself in the build-up, and his participation may depend a lot on diverse factors (how the match is going, how hard the opposition is pressing, etc.). When the team absolutely needs him to, he can become extremely participative and totally boss the game, but for quite a while that's been infrequent, and when he does he's completely spent by the end of the game, and in any case in recent years there have been moments when he's not even been able to do it - mostly due fatigue, and the team around him becoming less and less supportive each season.

Iniesta does a lot more of 'obscure', supportive work that's rarely ever featured in highlights. I wouldn't really have problems with him on a good stamina value... but he just can no longer sustain it throughout several matches, and when he's forced to in tighter schedules (UCL match mid-week) he starts looking like a shadow of himself, as he cannot keep it up. His abscence can be truly terrible to Barça's midfield as well, and just adds up to so many other problems Barça have been suffering for years - the trident's goals were a blessing in order to remain competitive but also kind of covered up many issues that should have been adressed.

I agree current Iniesta, when at his best condition, isn't probably very far from his best version. The ability to consistently send through balls with near perfect power and deadly precision is invaluable no matter how you look at it, throw him in a team able to cover up for his declining physique and he could be devastating on a regular basis. Barça just decided to go down an alternative, "let Messi do everything" route and run with it to the last consequences. They stand in a pretty delicate spot right now and there's going to be blood if things start to go south.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Sep 03, 23:47

Korinov wrote:
The comparison with Messi is interesting, as Messi can be extremely deceptive in that regard. He can seem hyper-active at times, appearing everywhere in the last third, taking control of Barça's offensive play. That may give the feeling he is energetic, but it's just him choosing very carefully when to spend his energy. As I see it, Messi has been employing a "start-stop" system (like in modern cars) for years: he mostly slumbers, just jogging or even walking around the pitch and doing nothing when his team is not on the ball. Even when his team gets the ball, he's very careful about what degree he implicates himself in the build-up, and his participation may depend a lot on diverse factors (how the match is going, how hard the opposition is pressing, etc.). When the team absolutely needs him to, he can become extremely participative and totally boss the game, but for quite a while that's been infrequent, and when he does he's completely spent by the end of the game, and in any case in recent years there have been moments when he's not even been able to do it - mostly due fatigue, and the team around him becoming less and less supportive each season.


this is the same thing i see. since his injury in 2013, he's become like a worse ibrahimovic quite frequently- jogging is generous, i see him just strolling around in alot matches, even key matches with big stakes, and just letting the play go right by him, which most detrimentally totally imbalances his team's structure, and killing his team's width. argentina/barca i've seen him like this at both teams. there was a temporary up tick in 15 where he looked back to his talismanic best on the right wing up until his unfortunate injury at the beginning of the 2015/16 season, but anytime he's returned to a 9 position he has been tactically terrible almost every time. there was that graphic that showed he ran less than ter-stegan when barca were eliminated by atletico last year? or some other match? i've noticed a dozen or more key matches where messi performed like this. some people have called this 'intelligent positioning', but i think while there may be some truth in that, i think it's also pretty disgraceful regardless. if messi doesn't have the stamina he should stick to the wings, which i think is by far his best position these days. when he literally stands still in the middle of the pitch while he's drawing 2-3 defenders on him he simply congests the midfield- and considering he's supposed to be the winger- he technically cripples one of the wings of width in attack. this is tolerable overall as he's so good he can make the difference in the majority of matches, but the drawbacks to this seem so clear against any decent opposition.

so i wonder about this. in 2015 messi may have been a low green stamina at best, but the past few monthes i honestly feel like he's dipping below 70 stamina in alot of matches. how you described iniesta made me think of this, as iniesta does so so much more support movement than even the most energetic displays from messi these days, yet, validly, maybe it's better to lower iniesta's stamina just so that he can't sustain his level across a season.

the point against this is that Messi does sustain his level reasonably well across a season, so again, there must be some truth to the perspective that he's conserving himself, but for what he does most of the time in his present form, i don't feel like his stamina is any different or much better at all from a sweeper/ball playing goalkeeper these days. once in a while messi has a really active impressive match energy wise, but too many times in my mind he's walking in a totally tactically negative tempo- especially when i see him playing centrally.

that's going a bit away from the topic of iniesta, but i just want to expand on how i see messi's stamina so you know what i mean when i compare the two, i didn't mean to present messi in a favourable way, i meant to ask about the difference against a player i feel uses far less energy compared to iniesta.

athletes in general lose stamina past their youth, but the key point is about the increase of necessary recovery time as athletes get older- but this isn't implemented well in pes, so like you say, lower stamina may be the best solution.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Korinov » 2017 Sep 04, 00:11

vinnie wrote:that's going a bit away from the topic of iniesta, but i just want to expand on how i see messi's stamina so you know what i mean when i compare the two, i didn't mean to present messi in a favourable way, i meant to ask about the difference against a player i feel uses far less energy compared to iniesta.

athletes in general lose stamina past their youth, but the key point is about the increase of necessary recovery time as athletes get older- but this isn't implemented well in pes, so like you say, lower stamina may be the best solution.


You know what's funny? And sad as well, like everything konami has ended up doing. In the now long distant past, konami had actually implemented a system meant to represent this. In PES 5 you have Stamina, Condition and Consistency as separate stats. Stamina dictates how tired a player becomes during a match, Condition how well he can recover from one match to the next, and Consistency his arrows. So basically Konami had it right, and then had to fuck up and remove Consistency from the game, mixing it with Condition.

In the end we have to work with what we have. I wonder if we should also tweak Messi to 2/1 att/def prowess, just to try to represent that lethargic tendencies of his.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby vinnie » 2017 Oct 17, 02:03

i was half watching the atletico match on a stream last weekend, when i saw this unbelievable pass attempt by iniesta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mywgWuDqDTQ&t=6m17s

it didn't complete, but just to try that is unbelievable. maybe Andre Gomes checking his run was all that prevented the pass from being completed. there was a great overhead replay on the stream that showed the structure of the defense that iniesta tried to pierce, and it really showed the flawless accuracy required just to penetrate the defensive shape. this pass was really staggering when i saw it live, regardless of the failure of this attempt.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Korinov » 2017 Oct 17, 13:27

Bypasses three defensive lines and potentially leaves a teammate with a clear goal chance right in front of the keeper in the middle of the box, nuff said.
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jurgens wrote:korinov clearly jinxed atletico. jealous of their succes he struck with kind words laced with hispanic voodoo.
amine wrote:Spanish vodoo is real. That’s my takeaway from this. When my gran children ask me about it, i’ll tell them about the era of xosé the great
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Mar 24, 17:54

SS position can probably be removed now, he hasn't played this role for a while and probably won't anymore.
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Re: Andrés Iniesta

Postby bitz » 2018 May 22, 16:45

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Re: Andrés Iniesta, Vissel Kobe

Postby Klaus14 » 2018 Aug 11, 11:52

!!!CHUPETE LA CONCHA DE TU HERMANA!! , !!VAMOS CARAJO TE QUIERO VER!! , !! TE QUIERO VER PAPÁ!!
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Re: Andrés Iniesta, Vissel Kobe

Postby vegitot » 2018 Sep 23, 23:44

why is his tech only 96? messi has 97 tech and iniesta's touch is smoother than messi. should be at least 97 now. his prime should be 98 tech.
his att now should be higher than 80,around 84-85. his peak should be around 90-93.
his long pass is low here. deserve orange region
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Re: Andrés Iniesta, Vissel Kobe

Postby lito5 » 2018 Nov 29, 23:01

vegitot wrote:why is his tech only 96? messi has 97 tech and iniesta's touch is smoother than messi. should be at least 97 now. his prime should be 98 tech.
his att now should be higher than 80,around 84-85. his peak should be around 90-93.
his long pass is low here. deserve orange region

NO, this set is made for represent the actual iniesta, dont the iniesta for 2012...... the one touch of he dont deserves more of 96, 96 is a great valor... and iniesta actualy dont are best than messi in this aspect,,,,, the long pass of iniesta is fine in the actual number he dont do dangerous pass,,,,, if you see the iniesta of the last season of barca, or someting of he in japon you know what iniesta is a garbach of player compared whith prime iniesta

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