Paulinho, Guangzhou Evergrande Taobao

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Paulinho, Guangzhou Evergrande Taobao

Postby PES Stats Database » 2010 Sep 17, 14:42

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Full Name: José Paulo Bezerra Maciel Júnior

Last edited by vinnie on 2013 Nov 30, 00:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby toaad » 2017 Aug 15, 02:51

I really like him but think he wouldn't be the ideal piece for Barcelona.
Due to physical decline, Iniesta should appear less and less among the starters (as was the case with Xavi in ​​2014/15), but if the club pursues or chased guys like Verratti, Coutinho, Dembélé, Marquinhos and Bellerín, a new coach who was his player (ie familiar with the Blaugrana system), it is unlikely that Barcelona are looking to distance themselves from their traditional possession/pass/pressure system.

He has always stood out in reactive game models, floating on the opposite side of where the ball using his great response that potentiates his great aerial game and sa (I see both probably in yellow, hea for sure). Without the ball he is great in support for the build-up, fills the marking well and has a lot of intensity in his transitions (which are many).
All this makes him look like the perfect player in any team ... but in fact he isnt for this Barcelona. The main problem is about the Barcelona game system and his player style essence.

In a possesion game you should know the moment of maintenance, the moment of connect def/mid& mid/att and when try the key pass. The CMF position in many spanish systems (even more in Barcelona) demands that the player has characteristics of a "playmaker connector" being incisive and surprising in difficult passes for someone, try the key pass, shortly after.
Paulinho passing game is extremely basic and he woulndt be able to surprise with this kind of pass or a key pass also. Every Barcelona midfielder in the last few years would at least have to have this capacity, because of that, the possesion game would require a lot of movement from the AMF and for the DMF to make the build-up since Paulinho has strong tendencies in "slowing" the development of the game with the ball..in the air that part of his actions, essential to differentiate an objective ball possession from a pragmatic.
The already mentioned lack of intensity in the game of Iniesta and the lack of offensive aggressiveness of Busquets block even more such chances to give "chemistry".

Even after managing Laporta, recruitment followed in line with the club's style of play. Bravo and Ter Stegen play well with their feet, Umtiti is fast and has great ball out, Jordi Alba and Vidal are offensive sides, etc. One can question the quality of many of the contractors but not the features. Paulinho is "the fish out of the water" among numerous contracted and persecuted athletes. For this reason, it makes no sense to interpret his arrival as a sign of system change.
At least I imagine the formation will change, giving trends for a 4-2-3-1 that would not overload both the DMF and AMF as much as in the last club game systems (as would be with Paulinho in the system today).



He is far from being a bad player, but in Barca's game system he seems totally unnecessary (at least until today) either because of the financial question, tactical question and mainly because of the need.
The replacement of Neymar, replacement for Busquets &Iniesta, the sb's, cb's... a variation at the level/close to level of Suarez for the attack... ie if the needs were fulfilled he would be a very interesting ALTERNATIVE for them...
€ 40 million, Paulinho is the 4th most expensive player in the club's history, just behind Ibrahimovic, Suárez and Neymar.
It makes no sense to spend that money on a 29-year-old player with a short, bad track record in Europe and a box-to-box style that almost never fit the club's culture football. In all respects, simply clueless.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 15, 11:11

€ 40 million, Paulinho is the 4th most expensive player in the club's history, just behind Ibrahimovic, Suárez and Neymar.
It makes no sense to spend that money on a 29-year-old player


You can't really compare todays market with the past, as if it's some historical pricing, it's simply the way things are for the time being, the market is insane right now. And clubs are well aware that barca has 222m to spend, they are going to have to pay high for anyone. Also, hes their star player, and their market is closed, theres so many reasons the value is gonna be high.
29-year-old player with a short, bad track record in Europe and a box-to-box style that almost never fit the club's culture football. In all respects, simply clueless.


I completly disagree with this. Barcas tiki taka identidy left with pep, it's gone. The two light weight registas with an anchor only worked with two god tier players at the peak of their game, with peps system and insane pressing. It's success has been dwindling ever since, you can't play a mid that flimsy in the ucl, unless you have a perfect system/players to back it up, barca clearly no longer have that. They have been trying to keep it up year after year, but it's been failing them, they don't play the possesion game well enough and more importantly, their midfield gets absolutely shit on. They've purely been relying on their front 3, backed by a disjoinited mid. They have such a weak midfield defensively. Bringing in an energetic, strong, good defensive player who works well for build up is a step in the right direction, I'd say it's even exactly what busquets needs, it would compliment his style so well. It's a shift towards a more structured Barca, giving Busquets a partner that he can actually rely on could start to rebuild the foundation that made them so strong in the first place, the mid.

I do not think Paulinho is some crazy random purchase, and it is part of a package that is yet to be revealed in full, I'm sure hes been brought to compliment both busquets, and his more offensive partner (coutinho?)
That is assuming they stick with the 3 mid, if not, the two man mid with paulinho/busquet would be very interesting in itself.

He could fail, alot of players do at barca, but I see the idea behind it as being a very good one nonetheless.


edit: i have barely seen him since he left, but I see we didn't even do the update we had planned years ago, im gonna update it.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby Vickingo » 2017 Aug 15, 11:36

I like the update Rob, it's basically what's been said in here for a very long time. But also i'd pay attention on his tech/ment/bb/spa/sps and yeah, sa, probably need changes in those current numbersas well, i'm not satisfied entirely with the set tbh but I don't have concrete real numbers to change them nowadays...so I'd wait to make more suggestions.

I get both points, I guess it's depends on a lot of factors...Barca Valverde's new system, Paulinho's adapting to a new top league and teammates' level to succed or not. I think Barca is the least team paulinho could play in a good level if he's the same of he always been, but taking Rob's view make sense as well...Busquets Paulinho could work quite well if they get along...probably Valverde could use the same Tite's system (Casemiro/Paulinho/Renato Augusto?) to make him exploit. I'm only worried about his technical skills, he's not clean at all, he misses a lot of passes cause being over enthusiastic and dynamic on his style, probably he should work on that to succed in Barca.

I'm happy he moved to a top class team and being signed for one of best teams in the world after so many years Rob made fun of me cause I said in 2013 he was great and top class player :D
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Re: Paulinho

Postby antony » 2017 Aug 15, 12:15

Maybe tactically is the right type of signing, Barca need muscle in the midfield but i'm pretty sure that camp nou will not happy with him, isn't the type of player appreciated by barca fans, i think he will have a though life here.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby furymaker » 2017 Aug 15, 14:28

as i mentioned in Dembeles thread, Barcelona will change the game plan, will definitely change the formation, if not on paper, than in game for sure.
Paulinho is type of player that should be paired with a someone like Busquets and AMF, with Messi and possibly Coutinho, he will have just that. There's a reason why I wanted Barca to sign Kondogbia before he went to Inter.
Now, Paulinho will have this free roaming, box to box role he excels in, I mean, best he can offer you is from that position/style of game. He will have Busquets to "protect" him and do the passing, have Messi and Coutinho for key passes, dribbling, he will do the dirty work, something like he does in Brazil or something like Khedira does in Germany.

I expect him to do better than what most of Barca fans seem to expect because he did have a bad run in Tottenham and then disappeared to China.
Cant really say how he played there or if he is the right signing, I'm pretty disappointed they went after him instead someone younger like Bakayoko at start of the transfer window, or someone better and younger like Nzonzi, or even after Seri who is a completely different kind of player.

Whichever formation is used and whichever position he plays, Barca will probably play around him, like you will not use him that much on the ball, but off the ball he will be the glue.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby toaad » 2017 Aug 15, 14:59

You can't really compare todays market with the past, as if it's some historical pricing, it's simply the way things are for the time being, the market is insane right now. And clubs are well aware that barca has 222m to spend, they are going to have to pay high for anyone. Also, hes their star player, and their market is closed, theres so many reasons the value is gonna be high.


The focus of what I said is about the value being high even at this time with incredibly high priced market.
These aspects that have made this current situation for the market to be don't justify this price for Paulinho. Whether if is for the curriculum, the new style for the team, the Chinese financial style issue, the need for a more physical mild-field or whatever ... this value is proportionally still expensive for the current market, and much more expensive if it is judged by the transfer history (proportionally btw era's).


I completly disagree with this. Barcas tiki taka identidy left with pep, it's gone. The two light weight registas with an anchor only worked with two god tier players at the peak of their game, with peps system and insane pressing. It's success has been dwindling ever since, you can't play a mid that flimsy in the ucl, unless you have a perfect system/players to back it up, barca clearly no longer have that. They have been trying to keep it up year after year, but it's been failing them, they don't play the possesion game well enough and more importantly, their midfield gets absolutely shit on. They've purely been relying on their front 3, backed by a disjoinited mid. They have such a weak midfield defensively. Bringing in an energetic, strong, good defensive player who works well for build up is a step in the right direction, I'd say it's even exactly what busquets needs, it would compliment his style so well. It's a shift towards a more structured Barca, giving Busquets a partner that he can actually rely on could start to rebuild the foundation that made them so strong in the first place, the mid.


Maybe there was an bit exaggeration of mine about this tactical analysis of Barcelona and his style. Even though the fact that Guardiola left the club didnt change the game's ideology (tiki taka is "only" a possession game strand) i would say that what really changed is an expansion for versatility when attacking (yes, except for Guardiola and Tito the other Barcelona teams had strong counterattacks with very fast transitions - where Paulinho would probably excel - especially at the height level 14/15 of the MSN trio).

Your tactical vision is interesting. That's what I say, it would be a good ALTERNATIVE but I don't see it as something essential for now. Either because of the ideological historical question of the club, or the coach, or about in the style of the player.

I dont think Paulinho is some crazy random purchase, and it is part of a package that is yet to be revealed in full, I'm sure hes been brought to compliment both busquets, and his more offensive partner (coutinho?)
That is assuming they stick with the 3 mid, if not, the two man mid with paulinho/busquet would be very interesting in itself.

It's what I said, for the current Barcelona I dont think a necessary hiring maybe not a 100%crazy random purchase but still isnt a main priority.
The arrival of Coutinho in addition to other offensive reinforcements would enhance Paulinho's presence in the field and mainly the team's own game system.

He could fail, alot of players do at barca, but I see the idea behind it as being a very good one nonetheless.

Succeeding or failing is very complex. If he fails, it does not mean that he is a bad player or that there never was any possibility of success.
If trinfur does not change the fact that it was a risky and not essential bet at the time it was started, and that he is a player that doesnt fit all into the club's football culture and their respective game models.

Everything in life is a question of the multidirectional influence between probability and necessity. Despite the quality of the player, the needs for vertical attack, some possible good additions to the team...none of that changes the fact that the club needs to reinforce the squad, have substitutes to the level of the main pieces of the team's game system, strengthen the weak system defensive (both ideologically and individually).. still think that Paulinho isn't a priority for Barcelona today (technically/tactically/financially).
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 15, 16:03

still think that Paulinho isn't a priority for Barcelona today (technically/tactically/financially).


To me a workhorse for the mid, whos capable defensively has been a priority for the longest time, since Keita left, they have sorely missed someone like this, and I'm genuinely curious, who do you think is a more fitting player, whos gonna come cheaper or for a similar price? Considering Naby keita is being turned down by 90m offers, and barca have 220m in the bank...

I feel this move is one of the smartest barca could have made, 40m is nothing for a player these days, especially a player with Paulinhos ability and current level of fitness, and we know there is more on the way. But like I said, who do you think should have come in instead, who'd check all those boxes you mentioned?
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Re: Paulinho

Postby antony » 2017 Aug 15, 16:48

jurgens wrote:
still think that Paulinho isn't a priority for Barcelona today (technically/tactically/financially).


To me a workhorse for the mid, whos capable defensively has been a priority for the longest time, since Keita left, they have sorely missed someone like this, and I'm genuinely curious, who do you think is a more fitting player, whos gonna come cheaper or for a similar price? Considering Naby keita is being turned down by 90m offers, and barca have 220m in the bank...

I feel this move is one of the smartest barca could have made, 40m is nothing for a player these days, especially a player with Paulinhos ability and current level of fitness, and we know there is more on the way. But like I said, who do you think should have come in instead, who'd check all those boxes you mentioned?


Bah, 40m isn't nothing for a player that completely failed in Europe and is playing in China and he is 29. Tacticaly could be right move but at this point for the same amount they could have sign N'zonzi that is a specialist anchor man, Paulinho is much more a box to box
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 15, 17:03

1. He didn't "completly fail" in europe
2. Hes also playing for brazil NT, and hes shown his level to be outstanding, brazil havn't lost a game since hes been reintroduced.
3. 29, but god tier fitness levels and hes only gotten better with age.

Why would they want a specialist anchor man? They have Busquets.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby Webad » 2017 Aug 15, 17:11

Well, IMHO Barcelona is not a club which buys players who dont completly fail in Europe.


Where is he going to play? CM in front of Busquets, or they change 4-3-3 system to some 4-2-3-1 so he plays in pair with Bus?
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Re: Paulinho

Postby antony » 2017 Aug 15, 17:13

jurgens wrote:1. He didn't "completly fail" in europe
2. Hes also playing for brazil NT, and hes shown his level to be outstanding, brazil havn't lost a game since hes been reintroduced.
3. 29, but god tier fitness levels and hes only gotten better with age.

Why would they want a specialist anchor man? They have Busquets.


1. Yes he did ask to Spurs fans
2. National team football is totally different, here absolutely mediocre players seem legit
3. If they want the option to play 4-2-3-1

But the thing is when Paulinho will fail a control or a pass he will booing by barca fans that aren't happy to have players with poor technical quality in the mid
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Re: Paulinho

Postby Vickingo » 2017 Aug 15, 17:31

antony wrote:2. National team football is totally different, here absolutely mediocre players seem legit


Wh...what? :|

But the thing is when Paulinho will fail a control or a pass he will booing by barca fans that aren't happy to have players with poor technical quality in the mid


So we should guide about what shitty fans do or don't do towards a players' performance?
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 15, 17:39

So you base your opinion of what biased deluded fans tell you... did you even watch him? He wasn't even a failure, let alone a complete one, he joined at a terrible time of transisition in a team stacked with cm/dms, paulinho/capoue/dembele/sandro/bentaleb/stambouli few more I think, teams was a mess, and though paulinho lacked consistency, he did show every now and then just how good he was. Pochetino came in and didn't want him, and he went to china the next year. Hardly a "complete failure".

National team is differnt, but a players ability looks the same where ever he goes, and Paulinhos has been extremly high.

They won't play with 2 anchor men if they play 2 in the mid.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby Klaus14 » 2017 Aug 15, 17:43

When he played for the spurs to me it wasn't such a bad player or having bad performances.. and i wouldn't say he's a mediocre player or underrated with an amazing talent but he proved to be an important player for brazil and very useful, amazingly useful.

I guess barca bought him thanks to his NT perfonmances? About his role..problably will play like a box to box and not so much involved in the construction of the game like rakitic. He will be the lungs of the team and be the surprise factor with his movements to reach the box.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby antony » 2017 Aug 15, 18:04

Vickingo wrote:
antony wrote:2. National team football is totally different, here absolutely mediocre players seem legit


Wh...what? :|

But the thing is when Paulinho will fail a control or a pass he will booing by barca fans that aren't happy to have players with poor technical quality in the mid


So we should guide about what shitty fans do or don't do towards a players' performance?



You know Medel Vlaar Ochoa for example ? Just 3 examples of players with hype thanks to NT competitions, those don't say the truth about a player
Paulinho hasn't the level to play in Barca
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Re: Paulinho

Postby antony » 2017 Aug 15, 18:07

jurgens wrote:So you base your opinion of what biased deluded fans tell you... did you even watch him? He wasn't even a failure, let alone a complete one, he joined at a terrible time of transisition in a team stacked with cm/dms, paulinho/capoue/dembele/sandro/bentaleb/stambouli few more I think, teams was a mess, and though paulinho lacked consistency, he did show every now and then just how good he was. Pochetino came in and didn't want him, and he went to china the next year. Hardly a "complete failure".

National team is differnt, but a players ability looks the same where ever he goes, and Paulinhos has been extremly high.

They won't play with 2 anchor men if they play 2 in the mid.



I watched him in Corinthians .. i remember he was good [free roaming] type of player ... with a good eye for run in the opposite box to score but excluding this he is absolutely average at best
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 15, 18:13

You know Medel


the hype is unjustified, he makes just as many mistakes for chile national team as he does for inter, maybe even more, of course they turn a blind eye to these and focus on his strenghts.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby Ocrin » 2017 Aug 15, 19:04

I honestly really like that move, I see a lot of people spitting hate on it because of the price tag and because of the fact Paulinho isn't a flashy worldclass midfielder, but he's something Barça needs. He has a profile the team doesn't have at the moment: a durable midfielder who can harass the opposition's defenders and midfield for a whole 90 min, good in the air, and has an interesting physical/offensive impact. Rakitic wasn't that agressive despite his great workrate but has a great technical and tactical ability to compensate.

The only doubt I have is his technical ability but Barça's playstyle isn't as based on technique as it was during Pep's era, they are not playing a highly technical tiki taka anymore but Barça still has that "flag" like they've only been playing that way and no other, and people keep talking about their playstyle like it's still 2009.
Paulinho wouldn't have fit in Pep's Barça but is totally able to fit into this one, even though we still have to wait and see what kind of changes Valverde will bring to the team's playstyle.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby toaad » 2017 Aug 15, 19:20

jurgens wrote:To me a workhorse for the mid, whos capable defensively has been a priority for the longest time, since Keita left, they have sorely missed someone like this, and I'm genuinely curious, who do you think is a more fitting player, whos gonna come cheaper or for a similar price? Considering Naby keita is being turned down by 90m offers, and barca have 220m in the bank...

I feel this move is one of the smartest barca could have made, 40m is nothing for a player these days, especially a player with Paulinhos ability and current level of fitness, and we know there is more on the way. But like I said, who do you think should have come in instead, who'd check all those boxes you mentioned?


Dont think that Barcelona has "only" € 220 million and if it had, the hiring of Paulinho would be even more risky than I think.

As I said several times in my last posts, imo Barcelona has other needs: replacement for Neymar + an other style offensive player/athletes with similar level and style for Busquets & Iniesta/reinforce the defense/ reinforce the sidesbacks/a cf to shade for Suarez - can have different characteristics - ... anyway.
I didnt really understand very well what was your question, since everything I mentioned was in relation to Paulinho and the style of game of Barcelona, in fact I dont even really know if it was even a question or irony..

Answering (already what I imagine to be), I dont know if it really necessary CMF with so different characteristics of the game model of the team, at least not with this current squad. I really like Rakitic and Arda Turan doing this function as CMF with great offensive capability and good defensive participation, so i would try some other young player to dispute the reserve position.
If the question was which player to buy today to play next to Busquets: i wouldnt buy, until first reinforce the squad with reservations with current level/promising level next to the tite holder - and the "cmf" position is not a priority.

If this situation on squad was done and could bet on an alternative to play in cmf not being so expensive, would be:
Brozovic/Dembele/Renato Augusto (Would be the maximum bet at here, but not at the Paulinho level)/Aranguiz be options - some "cockroaches" - but interesting to CMF, maybe Fernandinho could also be on that list. Young people like Keita/Bazoer and others.

Now thinking about the ideal player, within a certain limit of reality of the transfer happening, Koke/Ander Herrera/Saúl/Jorginho/even Lallana..would be good partners of Busquets besides to adapt to the system of game of the club and "respect" to so idolatrous ideology of play soccer of them.
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Re: Paulinho

Postby jurgens » 2017 Aug 16, 11:41

I didnt really understand very well what was your question,


Well you we're saying the money spent on Paulinho was senseless and complely cluelesss, I'm asking who do you think Barca can sign instead for the same sort of money, that will be a better deal? You ain't signing players like Keita (who would never fit barcas style) for 40m.


Turan


Hes on his way out, and hardly played anyways, featured in the front trident mostly.

the "cmf" position is not a priority.


can't see how cmf isn't a priority, it's such a massive priority that if it isn't sorted soon, barca is gonna be in big trouble. iniesta is 33 and can't play at a high level consistently any more, rakitic is good, sergi roberto is looking likely to leave, andre gomes is seen as a failure (unfairly). they need new players big time. Someone is going to be signed for LWF/SS, it's coming without any doubts, not sure why you think a cmf being signed interferes in some way with other signings.

Paulinho or a like minded player will greatly alleviate the pressure on both busquets and iniesta, they really need a player like this in the squad, especially with iniesta waning athleticism and fitness.

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