Arturo Vidal


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Arturo Vidal

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 13, 18:56

Full Name: Arturo Erasmo Vidal Pardo
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Epsi » 2014 Oct 02, 13:55

Tw can be even lower, like 82, but damn... everytime I see him I say "he's freaking good as defender, clean tackling and perfect response and timing"! Ment could possibly have a +1 too. I see he also tries to put some pacey 1-touch passes in vertical play to reach the forwards, and he's not so bad at them, but like Cassano, he misplaces a lot of them because of the impulsiveness of the move. Might he have something more in SPA/SPS? Feedback please
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby čale » 2014 Oct 02, 15:18

84 on DEF? why the hell not, Bonucci is on an 84 and he's 15198101848 times better at tackling than him. as for passing i've got no clear impression on that, it's good as it is from my point of view...
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby orlando9164 » 2014 Oct 07, 16:23

Epsi wrote:Tw can be even lower, like 82, but damn... everytime I see him I say "he's freaking good as defender, clean tackling and perfect response and timing"! Ment could possibly have a +1 too. I see he also tries to put some pacey 1-touch passes in vertical play to reach the forwards, and he's not so bad at them, but like Cassano, he misplaces a lot of them because of the impulsiveness of the move. Might he have something more in SPA/SPS? Feedback please


In my opinion they are only mistakes of "hurry". He searchs for the incisive move to give a change of rythm to the offensive action.

It is not a question of speed or accuracy of passes, it's hard to explain... he simply makes these passes when he haven't to make them.

Maybe we still have to wait, he is not playing at 100% due to the injury very near to the World Cup in Brazil. In another month, with no doubt we will have more information to discuss about this. It could be a problem of Tenacity too.

But what about the introduction of "Reaction" in special ability?
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby jurgens » 2014 Dec 29, 20:09

Can we do something about his stats, please? The current def/atk combo makes him shit on absolutely every other cmf in history, making him the best of all time by a massive margin. I won't deny he is a very good player, but I feel the def/atk ratio is overblown when comparing him with other past greats.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Albo7 » 2014 Dec 29, 21:56

Yeah, I've said that like a year ago. He's never even been this good, like ever.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby orlando9164 » 2014 Dec 30, 11:46

Probably the position of attacking midfielder is not for him. 2 matches ago, VS Cagliari, he made a wonderful match, and he played as midfielder. Behind two forwards his skills are altered, and he doesnt'play to the best of his ability
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby donkenke » 2014 Dec 31, 19:09

In his 2013/2014 season before injury he was pretty close to this set, before injury he havnet returned to that wonderfull level. His defensive attribute can be very comparable with Daniel de Rossi who stands on 83. 83 suits him better than 84 but thats cosmetic. His attacking atribute could be overrated, but his goals/assists ratio before injury was one of the tops between Europe CMF´s. He was the main key to open defensive locks, and was very resourcefull. Anyway, 79/81 would be a fair range (maybe comparable to Oscar, 81, even thouhgt they have different ways to create a threat). The thing is, considering only tackling capacity and attacking he is/was the best CMF in the world, at least during 2013/2014 period. Compared to old great CMF´s, he was better in some areas and mostly worst in his passing stats. Dont think he was the best cmf of all times at Att+Def combo, dont know for sure, but he was a beast in both aspects. His goals+assists+tackles per match ratio were simply fantastic and maybe unique in 2013.
Edit: Btw, SPS and specially KP are overrated, KP was never that good, and SPS in my eyes is lower. Maybe KP 82 and SPS 79.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Roy » 2015 Jan 04, 15:36

The more I watch him (which, admittedly, isn't much) the more I get the feeling most of his dispossessing success rates come from his insane RES and MENT instead of his actual DEF. I mean, his tackling abilities are definitely good, but to have him rated alongside certain near-great CB's is a bit overblown perhaps? When you've got a midfielder with god level STA, insane RES and near-God MENT, then you can expect him to hunt down and dispossess players no matter how high his DEF is. Everytime I see him tackle I just get the feeling it's down to him just being there and then traditionally lunge himself into a tackle which makes him look so much stronger than he really is, like Chiellini for example.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I feel STA 97, RES 90, MENT 93 and DEF 80-81 are high enough to replicate his style, and higher DEF than that just makes him a tad overkill, and in general I don't feel it's fair to have him rated this close to Mascherano for example (who's WAY ahead of Vidal in terms of pure tackling imo) and whenever I see Nigel De Jong I feel he's more solid than Vidal is, who simply relies more on his relentless style and unending energy.

Can't speak for attack as I don't see him that often and I can't judge based on vs. vids, but the odd match I do pick up from him he's more like 81-82.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby antony » 2015 Jan 07, 01:33

In this moment i think he isn't on 97 stamina, the tonight match said this added with the matches of the first part of this season...first half he played as a beast...was all around the pitch...defense,attack,defense,attack...tackling, good passing...but in the second half he got tired very soon (Juventus suffered a lot Vidal's fatigue) and was substituted by Pereyra.. after his knee injury he stays had difficulties to return to last years levels imho
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Epsi » 2015 Jan 07, 12:53

I wrote something really long and clear about his attack/defence ratio and lost it everything.. I was pretty annoyed by that and refused to write anything here for days.. now I'm gonna be extremely short.. if Yaya Toure who's a DPL has 85 thanks to his danger ability, I can't see Vidal being more than 2 points down him. It's just not fair.. he's far the most complete cm on the world, doesn't really matter if he goes out of any ladder if you consider atk/def because what really matters in the effect in-game, and you can just do it by giving him yellow attack and defence. He's wonderful tackling, he has the moves of a defender, at least at De Rossi's level (who has the technique of a old fashioned italian defender in terms of quality and would probably deserve an 84 as I stated some months ago), so no, I wouldn't touch any of his atk or def stats. I agree about stamina, his physical shape is surely deplecting from his knee injury to now. I'd see him with 94 stamina.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby orlando9164 » 2015 Jan 07, 18:33

Probably the same stamina, but a lower form could be a solution
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jan 07, 20:28

if Yaya Toure who's a DPL has 85 thanks to his danger ability, I can't see Vidal being more than 2 points down him.


No comparison between the two really. And you can't label him as just a DLP as in city, he functions regularly as an attacking midfield. Yaya isn't just a great attacking player, he is literally a genius. He is one of the most complete and all round dangerous players the prem has ever seen, he dribbles the entire pitch, he scores from 30 yards out, he creates and opens games through intricate 1-2's around the box, he pings out 30-40 yard through balls from the midfield. He isn't a burden when playing fast high level attacking football, he not only keeps up with silva/nasri/aguero, but hes regularly the one with the best moves out of them all... and it was the same with xavi/iniesta/messi. Citys been a big disappointment since pellegrini took over, they are all stars.. who just don't function well togther, but yaya has carried the team... hes the standout player in a team of allstars. In their respective leagues, Yaya 20 goals last year 9 assits, Vidal 11 goals last year, 5 assits. That isn't far away from Yaya having double his numbers in both areas.

Inspite all of that, it's not the attack I care about. I think Vidal is a very good attacking player, hes pretty well rounded and has a very good attacking instinct, he even has a good eye for a pass. It's the overall I worry about, roy keane, viera, davids, emerson etc etc etc. Vidal can't even hold a can't hold a candle to some of these players, yet hes so much better than absolutely all of them in attack and def, that he massively eclipses them. It's so far away from the reality. With these stats hes the best DMF of ALL TIME. And the best CMF. And when you consider where his main achievements come, it puts his overall ability further under question. The serie a is now, by far and large, the worst league out of all the big leagues, the level is so low these days it's sad. And vidal is in the most dominant side I think I've ever seen in serie a. I'd say these things really need to be considered when making a player the best of all time in his field.


if he goes out of any ladder if you consider atk/def because what really matters in the effect in-game,


Couldn't disagree with you more. Though I do feel we shouldn't stick to ladders strictly at the sake of realism, we can't just forgo them by a yard mile. When a current player is rated as the best dmf ever and the best cmf ever, but isn't... I think serious questions need to be raised.

and you can just do it by giving him yellow attack and defence.


Where did this come from? Honestly. I've played with basically every great CMF konami ever created, and it was very, very rare that any of them would ever enter a yellow for both stats, yet I found them perfectly replicated.

And for the record, I really like Vidals set other than the atk/def, I think it's pretty spot on.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Epsi » 2015 Jan 07, 20:46

He's a very special player, you can't deny it. He totally needs a unique set to replicate his style, and you can't deny this neither. Last season he scored 18 goals (including UCL), just behind Tevez. In 2012-13 15, being Juve's top scorer. Attack is totally justified in my opinion, or at least acceptable.

About defence, this is debatable. Maybe def was given too hurry, but I don't think it's so far from reality. If we have to consider his tackling ability, his tackling ratio.. he's among the best in Europe, if not the best by all means. I don't think these stats make him be the best CM in the world.. he's lacking passing stats, proper teamwork, or a very good dribble. He's just a beast of a box to box player. Anyway, nobody of the bigs even suggested something concrete, so I went by my own and cale's opinion. The previous values were attack 83 def 79.

And vidal is in the most dominant side I think I've ever seen in serie a. I'd say these things really need to be considered when making a player the best of all time in his field.


what do you mean?

When a current player is rated as the best dmf ever and the best cmf ever, but isn't... I think serious questions need to be raised.


Again I don't think he's the best dm/cm ever. Players are not just made of attack and defence, nor by response. There are 30 stats to create a player, plus stars etc... you can't just base a judge on a player by his attack or defence rating, sounds very old fashioned to me, like when these stats were considered "umbrella" attributes. This is just not true.

Where did this come from? Honestly. I've played with basically every great CMF konami ever created, and it was very, very rare that any of them would ever enter a yellow for both stats, yet I found them perfectly replicated.


I don't think you played him in PES 2014 then. His Atk prow/Def Prow clearly say that he had both attack and defence at yellows in the last update they made in january.

I still don't know how would you rate him then, since I assume you're following Juve enough from 2 season to give a concrete suggestion
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jan 07, 21:10

Last season he scored 18 goals (including UCL), just behind Tevez.

what do you mean?


I mean, hes in the weakest league of all in the top 4, playing in the most dominant side. And under these circumstances, he scored 11 goals. Then 3 goals vs copenhagen, 1 v madrid, 1 vs galatasary. Thats not nearly as impressive as you're making out.


I don't think these stats make him be the best CM in the world.


you can't just base a judge on a player by his attack or defence rating, sounds very old fashioned to me, like when these stats were considered "umbrella" attributes. This is just not true.


Let me rephrase then, hes the best cmf/dmf of all time in attack/def by a yard mile. Attack/def are two of the most important attributes, and for him to be so far ahead of past cmf's in this regard is very suspect to me.


don't think you played him in PES 2014 then. His Atk prow/Def Prow clearly say that he had both attack and defence at yellows in the last update they made in january.


We should not give any credence to what konami has done past 2012 It's absolute nonsense, it is not the same people anymore creating the stats. Shining example, philip lahm is now rated as one of the worlds best passers, 9 points over cassano in spa, 13 in lpa, one of many ludicrous examples.


I still don't know how would you rate him then, since I assume you're following Juve enough from 2 season to give a concrete suggestion


Something like he was rated before. Low yellow attack, high green def.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Epsi » 2015 Jan 07, 21:57

Lahm's example is not fitting the argument. People creating the database for Konami are changed since PES 2015. PES 2014 db was still made by the japanese guys with the standards we all always used. Translating stats he had 84 attack, 86 defence, 90 response.

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About your suggestions, I actually don't think he's a atk>def player, he makes both phase at a magnificent way. I'd say the most fitting values were the old 83/81 he had some months ago. If you want to turn him back to 83/79, feel free to do it, but then I'll expect a more concrete and helpful hand on the whole league, which I'm managing alone from more than 1 year to now, with all the balance between the players, the leagues.. and so on.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jan 07, 23:36

PES 2014 db was still made by the japanese guys with the standards we all always used.


Eh, thats debatable, ever since TW was removed it's gone down hill. The removal of response was the start of something terrible, thats when their stats really started looking questionable and it was before 2015 was released that we were saying the stat team was changed, as suspect stats we're getting more and more common.


Translating stats he had 84 attack, 86 defence, 90 response.


I'd say that right there is heavily pointing at their stat team changing, as thats just madness... same def as prime makele in older games, highest def among basically any dmfs ever, while being a cmf.

But I think thats wrong, since there was no response, and attack and def value now includes the old response, resulting in higher attack/def values. I believe it's resp + atk(def) divided by 2? So he should have 82 attack, 81 def going by pes 2013, which was a pretty great set.


If you want to turn him back to 83/79, feel free to do it, but then I'll expect a more concrete and helpful hand on the whole league, which I'm managing alone from more than 1 year to now, with all the balance between the players, the leagues.. and so on.


I have no intention of changing his stats myself, I just want to find a balance between him and other top players (past and present), as I feel currently, these is none.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Korinov » 2015 Jan 07, 23:54

Epsi wrote:He's a very special player, you can't deny it. He totally needs a unique set to replicate his style, and you can't deny this neither. Last season he scored 18 goals (including UCL), just behind Tevez. In 2012-13 15, being Juve's top scorer. Attack is totally justified in my opinion, or at least acceptable.


The fact that he scored 18 goals in a season and was the team's second main scorer, and the previous season 15 goals made him top scorer, speaks volumes about how poor Juve's strikers have been in that department. As jurgens says, it's an incredibly dominant side in the weakest (overall) Serie A I can remember.

The times I've seen him, Vidal has looked like an excellent all-rounded player. But 83 ATT and 84 DEF... I don't think he's ever deserved that. Sure, I haven't watched him consistently over long periods of time - my interest in Serie A has dwindled a lot since Inter went back to being pure laughing stock - but when I've had the chance to see him at top football level (UCL mostly) he hasn't lived up to what I was expecting. Physically he is (or was, I don't know about his current condition) amazing, but I think you've just gone overboard with his DEF specially, he's certainly an aggresive tackler, but his total defensive game does not put him (IMO) at 84 DEF. I don't see him that reliable and effective. Something like 80 DEF? Sure, that would probably be ok. But not higher... a high res value plus the Side Tackle card/skill will do the job.

Just my two cents here.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby delpierofan10 » 2015 Jan 09, 18:38

If we were discussing this set before the injury I wouldn't change a thing but now after it some of his stats may need a small change.He's still doing OK and slowly regaining his old form but he was so much influential back then,scoring goals like a top attacker.

First values that catch my eye are the STA and SA...I would go for a 94-95 STA and 81 SA,he recently tried a lot of shots and the current 83 value is too much considering how precise his shots have been lately.I wouldn't change his attack but lower his SA instead.

As for defense it must stay on yellows,he is a excellent tackler and deserves to stay on those values...if I have to say a value I would say 81 maybe.

Also I must say that I think his passing has improved a bit this season,he looks more solid on both LPA and SPA...I wont suggest any value yet but will keep an eye on this.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby Chenghis.Khan » 2015 Jan 27, 15:08

jurgens wrote:
. With these stats hes the best DMF of ALL TIME. And the best CMF.


If you are just looking at PES stats, I disagree with that assessment. To me, there are handful more useful CMs & DMs in the game. I'd rather have Rijkaard, Matthäus, Keane and a few more (Neeskens, Lahm, Breitner, Vieira,...). I think PSD Vidal hast two main weaknesses that really make him worse than a lot of past greats in his position.

1. Relative to all-time CMs/DMs he has really low TW. This is one of the most important stats in central midfield. In TW he is considerably worse than all the dudes I just mentioned and even though he is an omnipresent energy guy, he's not as good at fitting into the team environment.

2. He doesn't excel in any one technical area, save for tackling and maybe finishing (for his position) but even then look at Neeskens, Breitner, Matthäus and their shooting is (much) better than his. In an all-time environment his shooting is porbably nothing more than good. otherwise, he's just decent technically, more similar to Vieira, Keane, Lahm than Matthäus or Neeskens.

Combined, these two weaknesses and you have a very limitied number of roles in which he'll be an all-time great. He can be a ball-winning midfielder and off-ball runner/finisher at the same and if I need a combination of those two roles, there's probably no one better than him but I'd still take a long hard look at Gerrard & Neeskens. I can't think of any other role where I'd consider him an all-time great (these 2 weaknesses really hurt him here).

Btw, Matthäus & Neeskens both have 65 for DEF, Matthäus also only has 82 RES (Neeskens 96) and he's an absolute ball-winning beast. To be great at one task, you may not need to be great in all relevant attributes for that task.
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Re: Arturo Vidal

Postby jurgens » 2015 Jan 27, 19:59

jurgens wrote:
Let me rephrase then, hes the best cmf/dmf of all time in attack/def by a yard mile. Attack/def are two of the most important attributes, and for him to be so far ahead of past cmf's in this regard is very suspect to me.

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