Ousmane Dembélé


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Ousmane Dembélé

Postby PES Stats Database » 2016 Mar 15, 05:32

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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby Houy » 2018 Dec 12, 15:29

tomitos wrote:as I said in discord, the konami stats of explosive power and speed seem to me more in line with their game than the current ones in PSD, as well as their BC and PC, although in BC I would make a small variation.

I suggest the following values:
90 Speed
92 Explosive Power
87 Body Control
67 Physical Contact

Regarding his SA, I see it very low for a player who has converted 6 goals in the league, and from 22 shots, 12 were on target, that's more than 50% accuracy. This is not my area but I suggest a value close to 78 of SA.

https://www.laliga.es/en/player/ousmane ... e/ofensive


there's always this issue for new gen with exp. power when there's a gap between Acc and Agi. We'd have to change direction completely if we would focus on exp power instead but that's a different discussion. It's good to have suggestions for the stat around though even if it doesn't make it in the set. Perhaps we should consider adding it in the separate new gen stats and that's be the best solution.

Dembele is an even worse case though because red DS is rarely replicated in newer games. I understand having to rely more on Speed and Exp. Power to try to get the ideal effect, there's only so much that can be done since the speed stats in these gens are so different.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby tomitos » 2018 Dec 12, 15:57

Houy wrote:
tomitos wrote:as I said in discord, the konami stats of explosive power and speed seem to me more in line with their game than the current ones in PSD, as well as their BC and PC, although in BC I would make a small variation.

I suggest the following values:
90 Speed
92 Explosive Power
87 Body Control
67 Physical Contact

Regarding his SA, I see it very low for a player who has converted 6 goals in the league, and from 22 shots, 12 were on target, that's more than 50% accuracy. This is not my area but I suggest a value close to 78 of SA.

https://www.laliga.es/en/player/ousmane ... e/ofensive


there's always this issue for new gen with exp. power when there's a gap between Acc and Agi. We'd have to change direction completely if we would focus on exp power instead but that's a different discussion. It's good to have suggestions for the stat around though even if it doesn't make it in the set. Perhaps we should consider adding it in the separate new gen stats and that's be the best solution.

Dembele is an even worse case though because red DS is rarely replicated in newer games. I understand having to rely more on Speed and Exp. Power to try to get the ideal effect, there's only so much that can be done since the speed stats in these gens are so different.


I understand you perfectly since I play PES 6 and PES 18/19 and many times I find it difficult to clone exactly the same player so that he feels the same in both PES. I recently received a PM suggesting that next-gen explosive power should be calculated with some kind of combination between agility and acceleration, and I found it interesting to analyze. Maybe we could do the same with next-gen speed, using some kind of combination between top speed and dribble speed. Anyway, it's not the place to develop this topic, but I think O. Dembele would be the best player to use as a test in these tests.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby Houy » 2018 Dec 12, 16:06

new gen speed as a stat would be a nightmare to calculate :?
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2018 Dec 12, 23:39

other than TS and ACC needing a bump, tech should be quite a lot higher, he has mid to high yellow BC in 70-80% situations, and then sometimes he just looks annoyed or doesn't even try to trap the ball, but majority of the times he can kill almost any pass perfectly, i'll try for few examples in next few games.

Also I think he's the perfect example of someone who's potential is 90ish rated type of winger on a red hot form/arrow, and next game he's like blue or gray, completely down.
This season he has been more consistent, but throughout the match he can go missing for large portions of the game, but when he shines, he just explodes and does something insane.

While the game vs Villarreal recently was probably one of his best games in Barcelona jersey, completely destroyed them and showed his potential.

Can't think of a better example than him for someone who has such high highs and such low lows as a player, he can be play like top 10-20 player in the world and next game he'll look lost, uninterested, 0 teamwork, losing the ball 5 times in 45mins, etc. Doesn't happen often, but if he can have more consistency in his play ( will probably come as he matures off the field and gains more playing time/experience on the field).
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby tomitos » 2018 Dec 17, 17:31

Houy wrote:new gen speed as a stat would be a nightmare to calculate :?


I was doing several tests and you were right, it's impossible to calculate it. I think the ideal would be to take it as a separate individual stat. :(
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2018 Dec 20, 22:54

I gave him an update, some of the stuff we mentioned here + some stats I felt really comfortable with like higher ATT, BC and SA, he creates a ton of danger, his vision and playmaking are really superb, last part of last season and this one he has been playing on a different level, his BC is probably whats been quite consistent, he has been killing some traps effortlessly, imo he just needs to improve on his consistency in trapping and he can be low orange BC type of guy.

His dribbling is sharper, finishing is really solid, looks much sharper than he ever did, obviously if you disagree with the update or have different values in mind, feel free to speak up.

I didn't want to touch his DA since I bumped his EP and speed values, he has really quick feet but he's not always in control, keeping his DA bit lower replicates his sloppiness sometimes, but his touches do look sharper, but not yet to the point of me being comfortable giving him higher value there.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby tomitos » 2018 Dec 21, 15:46

furymaker wrote:I gave him an update, some of the stuff we mentioned here + some stats I felt really comfortable with like higher ATT, BC and SA, he creates a ton of danger, his vision and playmaking are really superb, last part of last season and this one he has been playing on a different level, his BC is probably whats been quite consistent, he has been killing some traps effortlessly, imo he just needs to improve on his consistency in trapping and he can be low orange BC type of guy.

His dribbling is sharper, finishing is really solid, looks much sharper than he ever did, obviously if you disagree with the update or have different values in mind, feel free to speak up.

I didn't want to touch his DA since I bumped his EP and speed values, he has really quick feet but he's not always in control, keeping his DA bit lower replicates his sloppiness sometimes, but his touches do look sharper, but not yet to the point of me being comfortable giving him higher value there.


I was testing it in PES 19 with these stats and it feels almost perfect, it replicates very well his movements, and his sloppiness as furymaker said, but I would make a small change in his combination Body Control and Physical Contact, personally I liked his movements very much with Body Control 86 Physical Contact 71, what do you think? It could vary with a little more Body Control, and a little less Physical Contact, to make it more agile and more weaker, but I liked the combination BC 86 PC 71.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Dec 23, 00:32

tomitos wrote:
furymaker wrote:I gave him an update, some of the stuff we mentioned here + some stats I felt really comfortable with like higher ATT, BC and SA, he creates a ton of danger, his vision and playmaking are really superb, last part of last season and this one he has been playing on a different level, his BC is probably whats been quite consistent, he has been killing some traps effortlessly, imo he just needs to improve on his consistency in trapping and he can be low orange BC type of guy.

His dribbling is sharper, finishing is really solid, looks much sharper than he ever did, obviously if you disagree with the update or have different values in mind, feel free to speak up.

I didn't want to touch his DA since I bumped his EP and speed values, he has really quick feet but he's not always in control, keeping his DA bit lower replicates his sloppiness sometimes, but his touches do look sharper, but not yet to the point of me being comfortable giving him higher value there.


I was testing it in PES 19 with these stats and it feels almost perfect, it replicates very well his movements, and his sloppiness as furymaker said, but I would make a small change in his combination Body Control and Physical Contact, personally I liked his movements very much with Body Control 86 Physical Contact 71, what do you think? It could vary with a little more Body Control, and a little less Physical Contact, to make it more agile and more weaker, but I liked the combination BC 86 PC 71.


Higher BC is arguable, but why would you want to increase his physical contact? He's not strong or anything, definetely not in the 70s. I don't remember any noticeable displays of strength for him, he just darts past opponents and barely bothers touching them.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2018 Dec 23, 18:33

I increased his BB simply because he can take more contacts in challenges before losing balance and is quite better under pressure, he used to fall as soon as they would look at him, couldn't really find any examples of what I mean, at least not in highlights comp on youtube, only somewhat reliable example of his strength would be this - https://streamable.com/g0mpa which is obviously not that fair of a comparison, even the guy who tried to shield the ball is sitting at 73 BB.

So my intention wasn't to make him necessary stronger in straight up duels since he doesn't have those due to his speed, but he can shield the ball away from defenders, so higher body control, lower physical contact is fine by me.

When it comes to BC, I wouldn't say its arguable, while going through all highlights comps, I'm even more positive he deserves higher rating that what I gave him.

Feel free to go through them as well, but there aren't many players in the world that open up their body while receiving the pass and proceeding to take on defenders and exploit the space with their traps. Every single time he opens his body and as he's trapping the ball he's exploiting free space, and he does it in such a smooth motion. I haven't seen more than 4-5 long balls headed his way to showcase his trapping, but few examples from what I found is down below.


https://streamable.com/0mna5

https://streamable.com/5170x

https://streamable.com/4m9a3


He didn't have to make any hard traps so far, that bounced pass in 3rd clip is probably the most awkward pass I've found he received so far this season, haven't go through all games, but I'm 100% positive his BC is really fluid and due to him opening up it makes it even more impressive, and he does it all the time.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby Ocrin » 2018 Dec 23, 19:26

furymaker wrote:I increased his BB simply because he can take more contacts in challenges before losing balance and is quite better under pressure, he used to fall as soon as they would look at him, couldn't really find any examples of what I mean, at least not in highlights comp on youtube, only somewhat reliable example of his strength would be this - https://streamable.com/g0mpa which is obviously not that fair of a comparison, even the guy who tried to shield the ball is sitting at 73 BB.

So my intention wasn't to make him necessary stronger in straight up duels since he doesn't have those due to his speed, but he can shield the ball away from defenders, so higher body control, lower physical contact is fine by me.

When it comes to BC, I wouldn't say its arguable, while going through all highlights comps, I'm even more positive he deserves higher rating that what I gave him.

Feel free to go through them as well, but there aren't many players in the world that open up their body while receiving the pass and proceeding to take on defenders and exploit the space with their traps. Every single time he opens his body and as he's trapping the ball he's exploiting free space, and he does it in such a smooth motion. I haven't seen more than 4-5 long balls headed his way to showcase his trapping, but few examples from what I found is down below.


https://streamable.com/0mna5

https://streamable.com/5170x

https://streamable.com/4m9a3


He didn't have to make any hard traps so far, that bounced pass in 3rd clip is probably the most awkward pass I've found he received so far this season, haven't go through all games, but I'm 100% positive his BC is really fluid and due to him opening up it makes it even more impressive, and he does it all the time.


Actually I meant BC as in body control, sorry I didn't make myself clear. I agree about his tech though.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby tomitos » 2018 Dec 24, 15:01

Ocrin wrote:
tomitos wrote:
furymaker wrote:I gave him an update, some of the stuff we mentioned here + some stats I felt really comfortable with like higher ATT, BC and SA, he creates a ton of danger, his vision and playmaking are really superb, last part of last season and this one he has been playing on a different level, his BC is probably whats been quite consistent, he has been killing some traps effortlessly, imo he just needs to improve on his consistency in trapping and he can be low orange BC type of guy.

His dribbling is sharper, finishing is really solid, looks much sharper than he ever did, obviously if you disagree with the update or have different values in mind, feel free to speak up.

I didn't want to touch his DA since I bumped his EP and speed values, he has really quick feet but he's not always in control, keeping his DA bit lower replicates his sloppiness sometimes, but his touches do look sharper, but not yet to the point of me being comfortable giving him higher value there.


I was testing it in PES 19 with these stats and it feels almost perfect, it replicates very well his movements, and his sloppiness as furymaker said, but I would make a small change in his combination Body Control and Physical Contact, personally I liked his movements very much with Body Control 86 Physical Contact 71, what do you think? It could vary with a little more Body Control, and a little less Physical Contact, to make it more agile and more weaker, but I liked the combination BC 86 PC 71.


Higher BC is arguable, but why would you want to increase his physical contact? He's not strong or anything, definetely not in the 70s. I don't remember any noticeable displays of strength for him, he just darts past opponents and barely bothers touching them.


You're right, he does not deserve such a high PC, anyway I think 62 is a little low, especially having 77 of BB, but definitely the value I suggested of 71 is too much. I'm going to spend a little more time doing tests to suggest a more suitable combination, also for his Body Control.

Regarding what Furymaker says about his Ball Control, I had not paid enough attention, but watching the videos he posted, and a little bit more on YouTube, it's true that his ball control is supreme. I'm not very good at suggesting this kind of values, but I agree that he deserves a high ball control value.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2018 Dec 25, 00:17

feel free to adjust physical contact and body balance/control as you see fit since you're doing the ingame testing and stuff, i'm fine with that, i thought Ball control/tech was what he talked about mostly, watching all these vs compilations he doesn't really go into physical duels enough to warrant a high value, as long as it doesn't make him lose every duel and stop him from getting past players with his pace.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby tomitos » 2018 Dec 27, 19:21

OK, after analyzing his game in real life, and testing his PSD set in PES 6, I was doing several tests with this player in PES 19, first I tried the complete konami set, and I must admit that I liked it, especially in his movements when he has the ball. Then I tried the whole PSD set, and in general I liked it better than Konami's, but his movements were not identical to PES 6.

My first suggestion of Body Control 86 and Physical Contact 71 felt very similar to the set in PES 6, but a little more stronger. As Ocrin said, too strong for his current game and use of his body, then I tried Body Control 86 and Physical Contact 62, his movements were excellent, but personally I felt much weaker than he feels in PES 6, my last test was with Body Control 86 and Physical Contact 66, I did not notice a big change but at least I felt him more like his set in PES 6. This last one seemed the most appropriate for him.

I would like Ocrin, or anybody familiar with body control and physical contact, give me their opinion after trying the BC 86 PC 66 combination. I am not a follower of O. Dembele and my tests were mainly based comparing PES 6 with PES 19, I would like a more professional opinion for this player.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby joselu » 2018 Dec 29, 18:28

Vinicius more speed than Dembele? This is crazy, who is the ignorant who put that? I thought that here they knew football.
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby pcrooce » 2019 Jan 19, 04:17

both of his goals vs Levante

https://streamja.com/32PQ

https://streamja.com/b3Oj

and the piece of dribbling everyone talks about

https://streamable.com/prrrm
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2019 Jan 19, 18:23

Goals on their own were result of great off ball movement/runs, but most impressive thing from him in that match was his playmaking,

https://streamable.com/atsxd

https://streamable.com/fz9zz

https://streamable.com/h46oa

https://streamable.com/95y5z


+ bit of pace on display late in game - https://streamable.com/3fyww
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby Houy » 2019 Jan 20, 21:38

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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2019 Jan 20, 21:52

66 mins of pure dominance and pretty unlucky injury, hopefully nothing serious, he is starting to look insanely good, unplayable, what a player
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby pcrooce » 2019 Jan 20, 23:40

weak foot? what is that?
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Re: Ousmane Dembélé

Postby furymaker » 2019 Jan 21, 21:51

https://streamable.com/iq48t


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