Hatem Ben Arfa


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Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 14, 10:54

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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Sep 05, 23:35

WTF THAT'S CRAZY

excuse me, i was in the midst of watching ben arfa videos... i have other suggestions, just that that speed really surprised me. :D
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Sep 06, 05:10

I've yet to really feel satisfied whenever i play with Ben Arfa in game, he plays as a good player obviously with these kind of abilities stat-wise, but it doesn't feel like Ben Arfa. I have some suggestions from what i've been going through and watching lately.

First off, i just want to know who changed his attack? I've read through the pages of discussion, nothing on reasons for an attack boost. It's really unwarranted, he isn't yellow even, by all means i think the previous (i think 78?) value is more representative. He always goes for the dribble, and when he does actually make nice passes, it's not really exceptional attack as they are clear options to play. In wake of various options, usually he chooses either a self-centered one (dribble), or a fairly dissapointing one, like switching the ball instead of seeking the two through ball options.

Minor notes;

-ACC was crazy from the link i posted earlier, 90-91 is sufficient... though that particular just made me sit upright :P , there are also examples like 1, 2, (also ACC example).
-TS could get a hitch, he was clearly faster then an equally TS 83 rated Ekotto, though that could mean a downgrade for Ekotto then Ben Arfa, anyways, Ben Arfa clearly showed more TS then Ekotto
Even here in this example. in this space, he beat Kyle Walker to the ball, that's no small feat. I've watched closely his dribbling and speed relation, and can't help thinking his TS is better while his DS is a bit lower? In for example the Bolton goal, that was more kick and run style replication in game, you can't replicate that sprint dribbling... on a whole he keeps really really fantastic control but not so blisteringly quick i think, just a minor adjustment of DS to 90-91. This is just a bit of a theory, an idea. Solidly, i think TS is at least 84-85 would be maybe better.
-AGI wise, he's at least as good as hazard here... really nice wriggling turns and moves and swiftness that more often then not leaves defenders bamboozled; examples; 1, 2, 3, 4.
-BB, he's held off some stronger players fairly well, i.e; Against Jake Livermore BB 83, Against Assou-Ekotto 80 BB, Against Bale 82 BB, Hard to see, but against Ekotto again,
-Is his RES really bad? In many situations where there are loose balls near him he reacts fairly sharp, i.e.; 1, (also used as agility example, 2, (also used as BB example keep watching until 2:45 to see Ben Arfa hold him up again, actually using strength as an advantage,


Jack of all trades example, shows BB, RES, ACC, and AGI, This one as well shows ACC, BB, AGI

I have more examples, but they don't seem necessary as these clips do a fair job showing off his abilities.

In summary, and in light of these examples, I'd suggest;

ATT - approx. 78
ACC - 91/92, leaning more to 91, the 90 ACC is fairly... sufficient? :P feel it's a tad low, but got an unbiased opinion that felt it was about that so no harm in leaving it to discussion
DS - 90/91
TS - 84/85
AGI - 90/91
BB - 80/81 (not 100% set on a value here)
RES - Not sure here, will need to try some values to get a better idea, open to suggestions and views on the examples, i'm thinking low-to-mid greens.

Any opinions, thoughts on this?
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby ballmer » 2012 Sep 06, 09:12

Sorry not to comment on all the good points you've made but regarding RES... they're must be something more to that stat than reacting to loose balls. Or rather, reacting quickly to loose balls which any and all players are probably capable of should not necessarily warrant even green values. There's an observable pattern in the type of players who get significantly low RES values - generally 'lazy' in terms of reactive movement and generally passive. He has 67 responsiveness from Konami, as part of a set that, while underrating him in general, does have a pretty good measure of the type of player he is.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby Jez » 2012 Sep 06, 15:02

I actually picked up on Ben Arfas strength in that much too. But then it got me thinking. I mean, how often in pes do you have to hold off a player in that way? Like, shielding the ball from the marker. It can't be often (maybe once every few games). Also, it's just as much a measure of strength of the guy holding off, as it is the lack of full strength applied by the guy challenging. I mean, if you're behind someone who's smaller than you and is holding you off and shielding the ball, you don't use all your strength otherwise you'd end up flooring the other guy over and giving away a foul. As much as I picked up on it too, I just don't know whether or not balance can be applied like that in game if you follow. The times in a game when you use all your strength is when you're challenging for the ball side by side with your opponent and that seems to me anyway, the most apparent use of balance in pes too. With players that are agile/quick/good on the ball, it can be dangerous giving them too high a balance as they become battering rams who can just plough through defenders. Meh, I'm musing but hopefully you get where I'm coming from in general.

Your other points seem good although agree with ballmer about response
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby Adrien » 2012 Sep 06, 17:31

Yeah for attack I still agree as he never proved any intelligence on his movements, only dribbling everybody. Even under Menez on attack in my opinion.

And disagree with response too, he is so static, waiting too much on the side when he played here.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby the sloth » 2012 Sep 17, 21:37

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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby KeyserSoze » 2012 Sep 17, 21:49

Aye, he's never been a great passer. There's a misconception about players with green values for SPA/SPS are bad for midfielders.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Nov 23, 04:23

I'm going to update his strength to the 80ish that i was talking about before, he has real strength and shows it every game, definitely better then 77. and i think i'll replace the set with the one i've been using the past few monthes later. it's essentially based off my set, but a bit randomized. i'll check to see if it's necessary.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Nov 23, 06:01

i haven't completely replaced him, but for now i've changed;

SA 76-> 79
BB 77-> 83
ACC 91-> 92
AGI 90-> 91
STA 74-> 84.

About stamina, it's bizarre to me how he can have such a low stamina rating, he dribbles nonstop all game, he must have completed 20 dribbles against west ham. He already has low mentality, that means he gives up easily and immaturely when he's tired, and when he's depleted but with only 74 STA how long can he last? Ben arfa does several full on sprints and runs down the wing and inside, and is constantly carrying, weaving, and bursting with the ball. 84 is what he deserves for the energy he uses every game.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby Adrien » 2012 Nov 23, 09:46

Does he come to the center at Newcastle ? I don't know how he's playing here in Newcastle but I remember him staying all the time on the side and just going alone with the ball when he had it ^^ So I can understand the low stamina for that point. For example a mieldfielder make much more run that a SMF/WF who just make trick.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Nov 23, 10:03

sometimes he cuts inside, or roams into there. some of his best goals have come from runs through the middle, or shots. he doesn't limit himself to the wings. it's not rare to see him around the middle because he likes to get involved with the play.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Nov 23, 11:02

forgot to change ds, changed it to 91, i've been thinking that maybe it's even higher, but want to spend more time looking and trying that out.

fuck i forgot wfa too. should be at least 6 wfa.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby vinnie » 2012 Nov 24, 05:44

Just passing needs to be closer analyzed now, i doubt he's more then mid greens for SPA, so im paying attention to that.
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Re: Hatem BEN ARFA

Postby Adrien » 2012 Nov 25, 09:50

Yeah watching to the video you quote, he looks to missed a lot of passes, and he doesn't look to have a great visions.
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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby vinnie » 2013 Nov 03, 22:04

his touch is just fantastic sometimes. should be around 92 tech. ds could possibly go up too but not so sure about that yet.

this guy is just such a beast. probably one of the most talented wingers in the world. could be one of the best, just needs a little extra umph and he'd get there.
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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby eric7 » 2013 Nov 06, 14:38

vinnie wrote:his touch is just fantastic sometimes. should be around 92 tech. ds could possibly go up too but not so sure about that yet.

this guy is just such a beast. probably one of the most talented wingers in the world. could be one of the best, just needs a little extra umph and he'd get there.


Agree with rising up his tech. His first touch is amazing. Lot of Newcastle actions are just going on long ball to Ben Arfa where he manages that long passes almost perfectly. His acceleration and DS are amazing too. This set pretty much describes him and I like this value for BB, but it wouldn't be mistake if it's on 84 or 85 like Sessegnon or Ribery/Messi. Just look at his play this season. He looks much stronger than before. He's smartly using strength as an advantage bursting through opponents very often. Here's some of examples from the previous weeks in PL. Against Jagielka 84 bb, against Riise 83bb, against Clichy and even Lescott for a second, again Lescott minor duel, against Rosenior and here's against Yaya Toure where he clearly lost duel, which is normall for player ho have 90 bb, but showed that he can hold duels with stronger players than him. He's very complete winger and he's very good in almost every aspect of the game but he needs to be more consistent. If he manage to do that he could be one of the best wingers in the world. This goal pretty much describes him. Beautiful shot.

Here's new picture for him too. Cheers :)

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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby Adrien » 2013 Nov 06, 19:24

eric7 wrote:He's very complete winger and he's very good in almost every aspect of the game but he needs to be more consistent. If he manage to do that he could be one of the best wingers in the world.


I always find funny to read it about Ben Arfa as it's what people saying about him since he was 17 years old ^^ he always been an immense waste of talent because of his behaviour.

But you're right that he seems to be realy stronger than before.
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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby tuco55 » 2013 Nov 07, 12:13

There is a possibility he has become a luxury player at Newcastle. Last saturday's lineup against Chelsea worked hard for that result and the substitutions Pardew made might be quite revealing. Obertan for Gouffran. Where does Ben Arfa fit in ?
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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby vinnie » 2013 Nov 07, 19:39

ive heard Newcastle fans wanting ben arfa in behind the striker in a central position. it wouldn't be too surprising if ben arfa is benched, but he's considered their best player by far, just that the dynamic of the team changes with ben arfa in the side. I think pardew didn't sub ben arfa on, because ben arfa is most comfortable dealing damage on his right side, and that side happened to have hazard down his side. he probably preferred the much more defensively astute sissoko to remain on the right wing to guard hazard and that attack, to shield their lead. i'm sure if Newcastle were losing he would've gambled ben arfa onto the left side in a 'going out with guns blazing' fashion. Probably against teams with less dangerous attacks he would try ben arfa in a ss role or out in his usual right wing position.
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Re: Hatem Ben Arfa

Postby vinnie » 2013 Dec 27, 20:06

why did his TS need to go down? and stamina?
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