Gordon Banks | 1966-1971


Moderators: lucashag, Korinov, Adrien, Albo7, Brezza, jurgens

Forum rules
User avatar
PES Stats Database
Posts: 18244
Joined: 2008 Dec 09, 12:06
Been thanked: 436 times

Gordon Banks | 1966-1971

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 10, 22:14

Nickname: "Banks of England"
Club: Leicester City F.C. (1966/1967) | Stoke City (1967/1971)


Growth type: Standard/Lasting


INFO:

Spoiler: show
At one time, this keeper was the best in the World. Most will remember him for England's World Cup win or that save against Pele, and rightly so. They were examples of his brilliance. So what was so good about him? Well firstly, he had an amazing ability to read the game and his positioning was flawless. He was always in the right spot at the right time, and this helped him perform some of his great saves. He also had brilliant reflexes, that Pele save is a prime example, and was one of the best shot stoppers of that era. He was brave and willing to go in for one-on-ones, regardless of whether he got hurt, and was unbelievably determined. He never gave up and was always determined to stop the ball from going in. He was athletic and quick off his line, something that wasn't common back then. He could organise the defence very well, although with Bobby Moore in front of you there is no need, and this also helped him with his decent clean sheet tally. He was great in the air and possessed a great leap to help him save shots. He was incredibly agile and nimble, he could leap across the goal to stop shots. His goal kicks were pretty good as well, but no-one cared about that aspect of his play, as long as he could stop the shot!


HONOURS:

Club
293 Appearances for Leicester City
194 Appearances for Stoke City
League Cup 1964, 1972

International
73 International Caps
35 Clean Sheets
World Cup 1966

Personal
Footballer Writers' Player of the Year 1972

Trivia
zguc's favourite goalkeeper


VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show



ADDITIONAL LINKS:

Spoiler: show
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Banks

http://www.ifhof.com/hof/banks.asp

http://www.planetworldcup.com/LEGENDS/banks.html

User avatar
Brezza
Posts: 2277
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Brezza » 2010 Aug 23, 17:57

Hey guys :D I should be back posting full time early September, alot of my thoughts match Plava's post but i'll add some more of my own.

Banks actually had superb upper body strength, I believe he worked as a coal bagger and a brick layer in his youth. He wasn't quite the monster that tom rated him but his reasoning behind his rating was not just his dominance from ariel threats but from 1-1 situations. Now im not talking about 1-1 saves but when a goalkeeper dives at the opposing players feet to gather the ball, he was extremely determined and physically imposing in those situations and won 95 % of those encounters against the big bustling centre-forwards of that era. Therefore I agree with 90 balance.

I think defence/response have been agreed upon but yeah, positioning should be slightly higher than response , alot of emphasis has been put into that save being solely down to his agility and athleticism , but his positioning helped make that save more than anything . The way he was able to reassess he situation after guarding the near post and quickly get into position to make that save.


I'll let you guys argue over jump/agility :P he could have a 1 or 2 point increase at the most but i don't want to de-value Plava's post where he compared him to alot of goalkeepers on the database and it seems that he suits the ladders quite well with the current stats. I know he definitely wasn't as agile as young Neville Southall for example. ;)
Plava Čigra
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Aug 23, 18:38

Hooray for The Scarlet Pimpernel and his response! :lol:

Finally some confirmation for those hours and hours of games watching.

***

Updated. Changes...

1. Changed his Era from 1970-1971 to 1966-1971. Added Leicester City F.C. to his club list,

2. Weight: 77-->84 kg,

3. Balance: 94-->90 (got that confirmation from Scarlet Pimpernel :mrgreen: ),

4. Stamina: 68-->70,

5. Mentality/Tenacity: 83-->85.
User avatar
zguc
Posts: 559
Joined: 2010 Mar 22, 15:50
Location: Croatia
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby zguc » 2010 Aug 23, 18:43

Good changes for now...

Shall we discuss about his speed, agility and jump? I think that the current values may not remain as they are...
El orgullo y desafío.
Plava Čigra
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Aug 23, 19:33

Imo, this is it. I just don't see Banks over Casillas (or even on the same level as Casillas) in terms of Agility (I already explained why I think 87 is too much for Banks; even 85 looks like stretching it). Agility: 84 fits him very nicely. Same goes for my ACC and JUMP explanations. Banks definitely had very good leap, but not worthy of orange area (as I pointed out earlier).

Gordon Banks' main strengths were great positioning, reflexes and strength. I'm sorry, but no matter how much I appreciate Banks as GK (and I rate him very highly), I can't agree with values that look overrated in my eyes. Solid amount of (good) changes have been made and I think it's very good we could reach some agreement.

As you could see I never locked the thread (although many people asked me to), and all (reasonable) suggestions have been applied (and if you think back you'll realize that I always listened to suggestions and applied the good ones). Try to remember this next time when you call me "stubborn" (and various other things), since you obviously quickly forgot numerous suggestions I've accepted for Pre and Post-War players.
User avatar
zguc
Posts: 559
Joined: 2010 Mar 22, 15:50
Location: Croatia
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby zguc » 2010 Aug 23, 22:57

Ok, this is your conclusion and I do not agree with him... and you do not want to deviate from it ... But I just want to say that these statistics do not show the true value of Gordon Banks, may even agree to stay JUMP at 88 but AGI 84 is certainly not a value for him... his agility will always worth more than 84

I think you have totally wrong way of managing and determining the values of each player.. You think if a player is superb in each abilities, as goalkeeper in the DEF, RES, then the other values which are also at a high level should not have great value because you believe that the goalkeeper then was overrated... (how do you comment then Casillas who has RES 98 TS 77 ACC 80 JUMP 92!!!) Why do not rate the players exactly as it was really... Ok, Banks agility is not on level as DEF and RES in red value, but also not at such a low level.

Just one question? Do you really think that Zoff (92) was much better in the jump from the Banks?

and don't delete my posts...
El orgullo y desafío.
User avatar
Albo7
Posts: 2733
Joined: 2010 Mar 31, 12:02
Location: The Mango Tree
Has thanked: 221 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Aug 24, 12:30

Brezza wrote:Banks actually had superb upper body strength, I believe he worked as a coal bagger and a brick layer in his youth.


Wow, I guess modern players which bench 120 kilos and take hell knows wat hormones don't stand a chance against a former coal bagger and brick layer...

Plava Čigra wrote:Also, I always say that the most precise way is to compare players from the same Era (off course, using a players that are already updated and that are made by solid, reliable users).


What's the point here? In PES a player from the 70s would have no clear difference with a players of modern football? You're saying that someone who was the fastest back then, should be rated at the same levels of players like Cissé or Martins? Well, this logic is simply wrong.

Plava Čigra wrote:Asking for SP: 95 for Matthäus (off course not directly ;) ) - viewtopic.php?p=175191#p175191

Lowering the value to SP: 93 - viewtopic.php?p=175303#p175303


Actually, I was not defending the value of 95 there, I was defending the high SP, which some people wanted to make it SMTH like 89 I think.

Although you need to adapt to the opinions of other people (that's what I read from a highly respected mod in here, no need to pronounce names) and that's why I don't want to show my obstinacy in every occasion and tend to agree when I'm wrong.
Image TROLL KING Image

Image
User avatar
Brezza
Posts: 2277
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Brezza » 2010 Aug 24, 13:43

Brezza wrote:Banks actually had superb upper body strength, I believe he worked as a coal bagger and a brick layer in his youth.

AlboSoldier wrote:Wow, I guess modern players which bench 120 kilos and take hell knows wat hormones don't stand a chance against a former coal bagger and brick layer...


Good thing were not comparing him to players that weigh 120 kilos then...
User avatar
Albo7
Posts: 2733
Joined: 2010 Mar 31, 12:02
Location: The Mango Tree
Has thanked: 221 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Aug 24, 13:47

When you find players that weigh 120 kilos, please tell me, I'd be delighted to watch em.
Image TROLL KING Image

Image
Plava Čigra
Posts: 977
Joined: 2009 May 04, 21:12
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Aug 24, 13:49

zguc wrote:Ok, this is your conclusion and I do not agree with him... and you do not want to deviate from it ... But I just want to say that these statistics do not show the true value of Gordon Banks, may even agree to stay JUMP at 88 but AGI 84 is certainly not a value for him... his agility will always worth more than 84

I think you have totally wrong way of managing and determining the values of each player.. You think if a player is superb in each abilities, as goalkeeper in the DEF, RES, then the other values which are also at a high level should not have great value because you believe that the goalkeeper then was overrated... (how do you comment then Casillas who has RES 98 TS 77 ACC 80 JUMP 92!!!) Why do not rate the players exactly as it was really... Ok, Banks agility is not on level as DEF and RES in red value, but also not at such a low level.

Just one question? Do you really think that Zoff (92) was much better in the jump from the Banks?

and don't delete my posts...


As far as I saw Casillas is more agile then Banks (and I'm pretty sure at that since I watched over a 100 games of Casillas). I saw Banks 2-3 times pulling connected saves where he shows good agility, but it's somewhat incomparable to Casillas who reacts faster and who's really catlike when in comes to such extreme situations (and yes Casillas is very fast; I'm not familiar to all keepers from all leagues, so I really can't give precise estimate are those numbers correct, but comparing Casillas to other great modern keepers I'm pretty sure he's faster then them). On the other hand Banks was better at defensive positioning, more reliable keeper. Banks might not be that explosive but he didn't have the need to play like that, because he had excellent estimate how the ball is moving and where should he move in order to minimize danger from all kind of shots.

In no way I'm trying to underrate classic players. Actually I prefer to watch classic football, especially if my choice is between for example classic Milan game from the late 1980s and a match in current Italian league (no disrespect toward current Serie A, but I sometimes can't watch the game till the end, especially when both teams are playing to get a draw). Also, I think you're being a bit biased since Banks is your favorite keeper (your words, not mine).

Zoff's performances on 1982 WC were very good, but although he was still world class at 1982 WC, extremely secure keeper, I wouldn't give him Jump: 92 (but as I know his stats are 1972-1974, so considering that he was 40 at 1982 WC it's normal that his Jump deteriorated). On the other hand when I remember his games for Juventus during 1970s I must admit that he had better leap then Banks (I can't say 92 is precise until I check all the ladders, but his Jump was in orange area). Maybe, just maybe GK Skills: 97 are a bit overrated (but to stand behind this claim I would have to re-watch all his games, which isn't possible at the moment).

I won't delete any posts you made. I'm only joining 2, 3 or even 4 posts that are written one after another in short time, without any answer between them. It's against the rules to write 2, 3 or more posts in a row in one thread during short period of time. This does not apply just to zguc, but to all users. When you want to add something, use Edit button or re-post your previous post with things you forgot to mention.

I've tried to express all my thoughts clearly. I think I don't have much more to add to this subject.


***


AlboSoldier wrote:
Plava Čigra wrote:Also, I always say that the most precise way is to compare players from the same Era (off course, using a players that are already updated and that are made by solid, reliable users).


What's the point here? In PES a player from the 70s would have no clear difference with a players of modern football? You're saying that someone who was the fastest back then, should be rated at the same levels of players like Cissé or Martins? Well, this logic is simply wrong.

Plava Čigra wrote:Asking for SP: 95 for Matthäus (off course not directly ;) ) - viewtopic.php?p=175191#p175191

Lowering the value to SP: 93 - viewtopic.php?p=175303#p175303


Actually, I was not defending the value of 95 there, I was defending the high SP, which some people wanted to make it SMTH like 89 I think.

Although you need to adapt to the opinions of other people (that's what I read from a highly respected mod in here, no need to pronounce names) and that's why I don't want to show my obstinacy in every occasion and tend to agree when I'm wrong.


I guess you haven't read my posts about modern and classic football. If you want you can find them, but to sum it up my main point is that you can't compare classic and modern players just from modern perspective (if you do that you would have players that couldn't run more then 70 minutes in PES; for example you would have to assign Di Stefano Stamina no more then 85, since he didn't run 12 km per game, but approximately >5 km which was incredible for his Era; if you assign Di Stefano such value, most of the players from that Era with normal Stamina would be on 70-78/79 level which is a bit silly, since they'll become unusable in PES). I'm gonna send you a pm as soon as I find thread(s) where I explained this.
User avatar
Brezza
Posts: 2277
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Brezza » 2010 Aug 24, 13:51

AlboSoldier wrote:When you find players that weigh 120 kilos, please tell me, I'd be delighted to watch em.


Whatever floats your boat buddy. :D

Being a brick layer was just an example of how he built his strength up, it wasn't the only reasoning for the high balance, I covered that buy his playing style. If these so called 120 kilo players you say exist with a similar balance value , they would be stronger in the game by default do to the affects of height/weight in the game.
User avatar
zguc
Posts: 559
Joined: 2010 Mar 22, 15:50
Location: Croatia
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby zguc » 2010 Aug 24, 14:04

Plava Čigra wrote:As far as I saw Casillas is more agile then Banks (and I'm pretty sure at that since I watched over a 100 games of Casillas). I saw Banks 2-3 times pulling connected saves where he shows good agility, but it's somewhat incomparable to Casillas who reacts faster and who's really catlike when in comes to such extreme situations (and yes Casillas is very fast; I'm not familiar to all keepers from all leagues, so I really can't give precise estimate are those numbers correct, but comparing Casillas to other great modern keepers I'm pretty sure he's faster then them). On the other hand Banks was better at defensive positioning, more reliable keeper. Banks might not be that explosive but he didn't have the need to play like that, because he had excellent estimate how the ball is moving and where should he move in order to minimize danger from all kind of shots.


You have seen him only 2-3 times because there are not enough videos like today, where every detail is seen, because of that fact and the lack of 20-30 videos you should not say that Banks did not show a lot of agility in his defense. You are wrong. As for Casillas speed, it is 100% overrated.
El orgullo y desafío.
User avatar
Albo7
Posts: 2733
Joined: 2010 Mar 31, 12:02
Location: The Mango Tree
Has thanked: 221 times
Been thanked: 405 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1970-1971

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Aug 24, 14:19

Brezza wrote:
AlboSoldier wrote:When you find players that weigh 120 kilos, please tell me, I'd be delighted to watch em.


Whatever floats your boat buddy. :D

Being a brick layer was just an example of how he built his strength up, it wasn't the only reasoning for the high balance, I covered that buy his playing style. If these so called 120 kilo players you say exist with a similar balance value , they would be stronger in the game by default do to the affects of height/weight in the game.


LOL, when did I ever mention 120 kilo players? You did mention em.
Do you know what benching is? :P
Image TROLL KING Image

Image
User avatar
zguc
Posts: 559
Joined: 2010 Mar 22, 15:50
Location: Croatia
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby zguc » 2010 Aug 24, 14:24

Guys leave now weight, more important is his speed, agility and other things that should be discussed...
El orgullo y desafío.
User avatar
Brezza
Posts: 2277
Joined: 2008 Dec 08, 23:57
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Gordon BANKS | 1966-1971

Postby Brezza » 2010 Aug 24, 14:25

:lol: Sorry mate, i completely read that wrong. Still my point stands regardless of how much kg he can bench press, its what he did on the pitch that counts.

My comeback is now officially the worst ever.
User avatar
L10Messi
Posts: 266
Joined: 2012 Nov 18, 17:12
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Gordon Banks | 1966-1971

Postby L10Messi » 2013 Sep 17, 02:38

Two great saves:

Minute:4,15,6,33
User avatar
dwid
Posts: 309
Joined: 2017 Jan 23, 01:38
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 58 times

Re: Gordon Banks | 1966-1971

Postby dwid » 2019 Feb 12, 13:26

RIP
"Technique is not being able to juggle a ball 1000 times. Anyone can do that by practicing. Then you can work in the circus. Technique is passing the ball with one touch, with the right speed, at the right foot of your team mate."

Hendrik Johannes Cruijff.
AMC
Posts: 59
Joined: 2010 Jun 24, 11:54
Location: Liverpool
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Gordon Banks | 1966-1971

Postby AMC » 2019 Feb 12, 14:15

RIP indeed.

I'm guessing his agility stat should read as 86 as per the discussions in the thread and not 76 as in the stickied post?
Yazid
Posts: 1117
Joined: 2011 Jan 16, 23:34
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 141 times

Re: Gordon Banks | 1966-1971

Postby Yazid » 2019 Feb 12, 19:07

RIP to the greatest goalkeeper and one of the greatest players in our country’s history.

Return to “60's”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests