Sergio Ramos


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Sergio Ramos

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 22:58

Full Name: Sergio Ramos García
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CLASSIC SET(S): 2009-10 & 2011-12 & 2013-14

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Aug 31, 04:54, edited 1 time in total.
Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 15, 21:21

Well, again SR, what a difficult player to rate... I want fix his defensive qualities and his agility/balance, he is played sometimes as CB lastly, showing great habities.

First his balance, imo it could go down by 2 points 83(high balance makes him to be a bit unreal as Mark said in the old forum), but this lowering must have a rise of his agility to compensate part of that lost. And i suggest this cause i think that his strengh in phisical chalenges is thanked more to his agility than to his balance, he has a very powerfull legs, and he has a low center of gravitity, making him to be very agile (something like it happens with messi, but with obviulsly much lower agility), and that is not pure muscle power. That's is imo our big mistake about him. I suggest something like 87/88, and that shouldn't scare you seeing alves or drenthe agility, imo ramos is much quicker in his movments than drenthe. Someone could think that with this agility he will be overrated in dribbling qualities, but don't forget that we lowered his balance, and we compensate this rating his DA and DS lower than any other world class SB, see alves, evra, clichy etc...

Now about his defensive positioning... i think we have been very harsh, just see his last matches as CB, good coverings, good in 1vs1, good marks... Again comparing with the bestest in this role his defensive qualities should be IMO a bit over alves, bosinwa, evra... etc... And a bit lower than chiellini for example, 82. About response i have no doubt that it needs a rise, he is showing that he can react and read very fast, filling the gaps that cannavaro left in our center of the defense, cutting many passes. Also think about(and is an example not rated only for 1 match...) his good mark over messi, showed he can react really fast to messi movements, one of the quickest players ever, and I think one of the tighest mark he has recived. Response 84-86

Also think his attack should be at 74...
Last edited by Ulises on 2008 Dec 16, 01:02, edited 4 times in total.
Navas
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Navas » 2008 Dec 15, 22:02

The first ''fault'' that comes to my eyes are the next:

DA: 79.

He can makes really good tricks and bicicles without any problem, he has got a great touch with the ball for a defence wing. Im the only one that thinks that? :?
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby as_10 » 2008 Dec 15, 22:32

Navas wrote:The first ''fault'' that comes to my eyes are the next:

DA: 79.

He can makes really good tricks and bicicles without any problem, he has got a great touch with the ball for a defence wing. Im the only one that thinks that? :?

yes :lol:
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Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 15, 22:41

Navas wrote:The first ''fault'' that comes to my eyes are the next:

DA: 79.

He can makes really good tricks and bicicles without any problem, he has got a great touch with the ball for a defence wing. Im the only one that thinks that? :?



I afraid you haven't seen him lastly... Disagree with higher DA
Last edited by Ulises on 2008 Dec 16, 01:03, edited 2 times in total.
Capitan

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Capitan » 2008 Dec 15, 22:59

I dont think he deserve more DEF, but yes more DA,, he have good control with the ball even when is running, but his defense its ok like is now, his respone help him alot.

So, maybe more DA and Technique.
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Tavo » 2008 Dec 16, 00:39

I agree...about Agility, but do you think an 83 is fair for him in BB, being Sergio a REALLY STRONG player?

And Response, it's quite hard for me to rate that stat, so I don't know exactly the numbers, but an increase seems fair.

I disagree about ATT, and DEF...maybe it's too much, maybe an increase but not that big?
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Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 16, 00:54

Tavo wrote:I agree...about Agility, but do you think an 83 is fair for him in BB, being Sergio a REALLY STRONG player?

And Response, it's quite hard for me to rate that stat, so I don't know exactly the numbers, but an increase seems fair.

I disagree about ATT, and DEF...maybe it's too much, maybe an increase but not that big?


Yes def was overrated, edited a bit. About balance like i said befor i don't find him that strong, imo his power in phisical challenges is more related with his agility than with his muscle power.

EDITED:

Attack: 74 (-2)
Def: 82 (+4)
BB: 84 (-1)
Agility: 87/88 (+5/+6)
Response: 86 (+4)
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Markulur » 2008 Dec 16, 08:50

Do you really think that he is that agile like Rossi or better than Colunga...? Probably his movements are fast thanks to his Acc or Response more than for his agility.
With your commentary saying that "and that shouldn't scare you seeing alves or drenthe agility"... well I don't see any problem that a player with 171 can be agile. And he is really.

And a question... why do you think now that attack needs to be lowered?
Editing La Liga...
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby LaitP » 2008 Dec 16, 09:27

Ulises wrote:
Tavo wrote:I agree...about Agility, but do you think an 83 is fair for him in BB, being Sergio a REALLY STRONG player?

And Response, it's quite hard for me to rate that stat, so I don't know exactly the numbers, but an increase seems fair.

I disagree about ATT, and DEF...maybe it's too much, maybe an increase but not that big?


Yes def was overrated, edited a bit. About balance like i said befor i don't find him that strong, imo his power in phisical challenges is more related with his agility than with his muscle power.

EDITED:

Attack: 74 (-2)
Def: 82 (+4)
BB: 84 (-1)
Agility: 87/88 (+5/+6)
Response: 86 (+4)


i well agree with the Def and Res stats.
for Att and BB they are just fine as they are now.
for Agility i would rate him at 85.
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Tavo » 2008 Dec 16, 11:41

I really don't see why his attack should go down.
Agree about the rest, and LaitP's suggestion for Agility instead of Ulises'.
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Aureliano Buendía
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Aureliano Buendía » 2008 Dec 16, 14:31

I disagree all but RES. I still think that if he does some good performances when he plays as a CB is only by his very high RES and ACC, and it's true that his RES is better than 82. About positioning, it's true that it seems he has improved slightly, but he still goes up some times and leave open spaces at the defense (and not only when he goes up). I will wait more to give him a higher DEF value. I have no problem with the other values. I don't find him to be unstoppable because of his BB and I agree with Mark that his fast movements are because of his RES and ACC
Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 16, 15:24

Well i will try to make a set of stats that satisfies everybody. About BB i think that he is not on par with pepe 85, or only 2 points lower than puyol who is 87. Deleted the ATK suggestion cause you all disagree. Lowered agility suggestion. And keeped response and def seeing that are some agrees.

DEF: 82 (+4)
BB: 84 (-1)
Agility: 85 (+3)
Response: 86 (+4)

PLZ, post again what you agree and disagree, cause we have a mess here. Do you still find his agility overrated?¿

P.S: Aureliano i think you have made a mess, you said that you disagree and the that you have no problem with stats, could you be more clear?¿
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Tom » 2008 Dec 16, 16:11

Okay now this is incredibly confusing, Ulises. On the previous site you asked for his Defence to be raised to an 80+ value (Can't remember what value specifically) and then you wanted it decreased and now you want it raised again. Can you make up your mind? :roll:
Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 16, 19:02

GoonerLover66 wrote:Okay now this is incredibly confusing, Ulises. On the previous site you asked for his Defence to be raised to an 80+ value (Can't remember what value specifically) and then you wanted it decreased and now you want it raised again. Can you make up your mind? :roll:


I never asked to rise ramos DEF over 80 in the old forum... you are absolutly wrong... I agreed to be lowered but i never aske to rise it...

Why you only came here to anwer st**id things and you don't came here to help us with solutions and positive opinions and good arguments, this is your first post in la liga... We made many changes, we tried many stats and we discussed a lot about ramos and we couldn't find accurate stats. And i am not the only one that agreed to some values and then changed them, Mark also change his opinion about ramos stats and you didn't say anything to him.

If you don't want to help at rating this "difficult" player don't came here to attack me, just leave us alone. But you want to help us with your experience and kwnolege i will be very happy, but don't came here to attack people who only want to discuss and make this stats as accurate as we can. And i changed my mind cause ramos is making really good matches as CB, showing good defensive qualities that are not reflecte by the current stats, and if you have read the anwers some people agreed...

But my question is why i am not able to change my mind?¿ And more important who are you to say that i can't change my mind?¿

I hope forget about this, delete boths replys (mine and yours) and help us at rating ramos...
Last edited by Ulises on 2008 Dec 16, 19:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby as_10 » 2008 Dec 16, 19:12

i understand you Ulises, but i dont think he was attacking you this way, you took it too seriously ;)
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Aureliano Buendía » 2008 Dec 16, 20:29

Ulises wrote:P.S: Aureliano i think you have made a mess, you said that you disagree and the that you have no problem with stats, could you be more clear?¿


I was refering that I don't find any problem with the other current values xD (other than RES). And I was thinking specially of BB. I don't think it makes Ramos unreal, as you and Mark said. I don't have a lot of problems to stop him, as Mark said his friend had. As I said in the old forum, the one that I think is overrated is Robben (Robben is the one I have a LOT of problems to stop, and so have my friends xD). If you don't press him just after he recives the ball his agility and ACC allow him to turn so fast that is very difficult to react to his moves. But I'm the only one who thinks it, so it can be a problem with my style of play. I know Robben has the skill to make this, but I haven't seen do it so regular (and it's not only an injury problem xD) to be in god numbers at both. Talking about Ramos If you all think that 84 is a good BB value, it's only a point from the current figure, I have no problem with it.

I still disagree with DEF or Agility increase. ¿If we increase the agility wouldn't Ramos have the same problem as with the current BB?
Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 16, 20:59

Well, my suggestion was to lower a bit his balance 1 or 2 points and raise a agility, to keep his strenght is phisical challenges, and don't make him stronger because of what Mark said. I suggest this cause i find that his agility is a bit harsh, he looks quick and coordinate in all of his movements (see his goal celebration like obafemi martis) and is a player that use to make "tricks" (unaccurate tricks sometimes but he is an SB... with 79 DA) but really quick for an SB. I still think about 83 BB, and 86/87 agility. But i changed the value cause many people disagree... And i don't want to overrate him, just find accurate stats, cause the current are not good ones IMO...
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Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Tom » 2008 Dec 16, 21:01

Ulises wrote:
GoonerLover66 wrote:Okay now this is incredibly confusing, Ulises. On the previous site you asked for his Defence to be raised to an 80+ value (Can't remember what value specifically) and then you wanted it decreased and now you want it raised again. Can you make up your mind? :roll:


I never asked to rise ramos DEF over 80 in the old forum... you are absolutly wrong... I agreed to be lowered but i never aske to rise it...

Why you only came here to anwer st**id things and you don't came here to help us with solutions and positive opinions and good arguments, this is your first post in la liga... We made many changes, we tried many stats and we discussed a lot about ramos and we couldn't find accurate stats. And i am not the only one that agreed to some values and then changed them, Mark also change his opinion about ramos stats and you didn't say anything to him.

If you don't want to help at rating this "difficult" player don't came here to attack me, just leave us alone. But you want to help us with your experience and kwnolege i will be very happy, but don't came here to attack people who only want to discuss and make this stats as accurate as we can. And i changed my mind cause ramos is making really good matches as CB, showing good defensive qualities that are not reflecte by the current stats, and if you have read the anwers some people agreed...

But my question is why i am not able to change my mind?¿ And more important who are you to say that i can't change my mind?¿

I hope forget about this, delete boths replys (mine and yours) and help us at rating ramos...


Woah, stop treating this like an attack. Don't be so serious, no-ones out to get you! It's just frustrating that over the course of 4-5 months he's been raised up and down like mad, even Cristiano Ronaldo (who gets a lot of stick for constant updates) hasn't been updated as vigorously or as frequently as Ramos.

And I'm pretty sure that in Page 2 of the original Sergio Ramos thread you suggested an 81 in Defence for him, although maybe I have misinterpreted this

And who said I wasn't going to help you out? I was just showing how this one particular stat has changed over the course of time. It could indicate where we've been going wrong.
I think it's too soon to raise Ramos again after such a few games. Yes, he's played CB countless times in his career, but over the last couple of seasons he's played as an attacking full-back (You've said this yourself). He's still shown superb positional sense and decent accuracy in his tackles, but I don't believe that he should be above Javier Zanetti who is possibly the best in this department for an offensive full-back/wing-back. He sits well on the current value, and it's certainly not an area that we need to raise further. Heck, his positional sense was quite erratic during the Euros in certain games.

As for the other changes, well they all seem reasonable, I think I may have suggested a higher Response for Ramos in his previous thread (although I could be thinking of a different player)

And if I'm perfectly honest, there's one area of the first post that's truly concerning me at the moment and that's his Team Work. Why has this been overlooked? His understanding with his team-mates is actually quite decent, and he's not one to make communication errors.
Ulises

Re: Sergio RAMOS

Postby Ulises » 2008 Dec 16, 22:20

I disagree with you about his positional sense, Zanneti (he is76! alves, evra are over him... imo he is underrated) is probably the best in defensive postioning, but ramos demostrated that he could keep his condition of world class even playing as CB, zanneti never played there. Yes, ramos plays usually as SB, but when he plays as CB is ABSOLUTLY diffrent player, he never loose position, make tight marks over for example the best player at the moment, messi (I think you have seen the las barsa-madrid). So i think that at least he deserves DEF80.

About his balance/agility, what numbers go with?¿ Then agree with RES 86?¿

About TW i suggested to rise it in the old forum and people disagree, and thought about discussin again when we had fixed this values. My argument was that he use to help to playmake in the wing being very cooperative, and always making spaces to recive the ball when he hasn't got it. And now seeing him playing regulary as CB, i think that this rise of TW will also suit him as CB, cause has good coordination in the d-line in the offside trap movements, so he doesn't use to break it by bad positioning. So i think 80/81 no more...

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