Robinho, Sivasspor


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Robinho, Sivasspor

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 17:06

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Re: ROBINHO

Postby čale » 2012 Mar 14, 18:36

okay then, i'm glad that we've reach some kind of a middle consensus on him ;)

will revert ACC back to 86 then.

and again on DS, isn't that just the point that when he's on the ball lowering it on a middle yellow will make his ACC even more sluggish? i mean, think of it, when standing still and trying to make a sudden burst with ACC 86 and DS 85, the amount of power behind the burst will be far more less effective and the reason i wanted to go even lower on mid greens for TS and such high ACC was to prevent him from running with the ball on longer distances. Giving a player high ACC and low TS with great DS enhances his bursts and encourages the AI to use him in short and simple bursts just so that he could get rid of his marker for a short period of time and create space for himself for a shot, pass or whatever and making the AI aware that a long distance run with the ball wouldn't be as effective as a short burst. And that's from where my argument about him "playing well" with this set comes from, it's not like a care if my name is engraved up there in the first post or not, it was all about him and tweaking the AI in-game ;)

well okay then on AGI, but i'd still insist to keep it on 90 and would like to drop his BB even more to a 77...

i'm fine with STA 84 then.

well then, i'll revert ACC (fix AGG) and get rid of those cards, but i'd still like to hear your thoughts on his "pure" TS, what do you think he deserves given the amount of what he shows and his style of play and constant use of short bursts? (i really want to go lower than the 79)
Also i'd like to hear what you think about this little definition about AI tweaking with DS and i'll completely trust you on cards as my input on them is almost non-existent. :)
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 14, 18:48

Really strange he doesn't have shoulder feint skills.

I see where cales coming from with the DS.. not because it gives them more of a burst.. I don't think thats reason to give him a DS if he doesn't display it. Because he can keep very good pace on the ball, for example But he is really slow.

I see his DA at red. I know alot including evans wanted it lower, but based on close control? But really that shouldn't be the main factor... Robinho is a dribble king, he's a master of doing things with his feet that most could only dream about. And it's really his defending characteristic, he should have this highlighted imo. And konami always has him on red DA so... :D

I think other than his shooting, which makes him look like an idiot at times. Hes a very smart player, and somthing I never gave him credit for at madrid. I see his attack much higher.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 Mar 14, 19:17

Konami's Robinho is overpowered though :lol:. But I now do agree with red DA, I understand what you mean. Though it's just the AGI and DS that's just too high for me. It makes his movements to quick and sharp, especially if he were to get red DA on top of it, and gives you too much speed on the ball. His movements are very fluid but he's not like Nani for example, who turns so much faster and sharper. But Nani doesn't have his control.

I wouldn't lower BAL. I know I did but I was wrong. The way he can stand up against strong defenders, and not by twisting his body or anything, is actually pretty impressive. The key is on finding the right combination of stats/the right balance though so it would need testing.
On his speed. Robinho is easily a yellow value when he wants to and it's certainly not rare for him to display it. When sent through into open space, he usually shows he has decent pace. But he doesn't show it a lot so I understand green TS but I wouldn't go lower than a 79.

I wouldn't call him a very smart player, he can be so frustrating. On his day (red arrow in PES terms), he can be very dangerous but he's not consistently that way. Right now for example he's in good form but he was so poor in the first half of the season. Last season I'd rate him like a 86/87 but based on the current season a 84 is a pretty fair value. We shouldn't focus on the good too much.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby bitz » 2012 Mar 14, 19:25

Mr. Evans wrote:I wouldn't lower BAL. I know I did but I was wrong. The way he can stand up against strong defenders, and not by twisting his body or anything, is actually pretty impressive. The key is on finding the right combination of stats/the right balance though so it would need testing.


Yeah that's what I told to a guy who asked for a lower value, I wouldn't go for lower either, actually maybe an 80 is more fitting, that needs to be tested. Fact is that he's not afraid to use his body when he dwells on the ball, you will often see him turn his back to a defender and shield the ball that way.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 Mar 14, 19:33

Yeah exactly, he's deceptively strong or better said his balance is deceptively good. You look at him and see this short and very skinny guy but you can't just knock him down.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby čale » 2012 Mar 14, 19:37

glad to see that i'm not the only one which was thinking red for DA, was a bit afraid to give it even though it's his trademark just like jurgens said.

and on DS i really want him to remain on DS just as i said before, because of the burst and because like i said can't see him losing much pace on the ball, he may jog mostly when on the ball but when he goes sprinting with it you can hardly see the difference with or without the ball

Mr. Evans wrote:On his speed. Robinho is easily a yellow value when he wants to and it's certainly not rare for him to display it. When sent through into open space, he usually shows he has decent pace. But he doesn't show it a lot so I understand green TS but I wouldn't go lower than a 79.


and that's the main reason! he's just too darn inconsistent in his speed off the ball, you can never really know what to expect, like against Koscielny at Emirates where he made a complete sucker out of him...

Mr. Evans wrote:I wouldn't call him a very smart player, he can be so frustrating. On his day (red arrow in PES terms), he can be very dangerous but he's not consistently that way. Right now for example he's in good form but he was so poor in the first half of the season. Last season I'd rate him like a 86/87 but based on the current season a 84 is a pretty fair value. We shouldn't focus on the good too much.


most definitely the thing which makes Robinho so overpowered this season is the waaay overrated ATT they've given him in PES 2012, last year he was more accurate and better represented with his default stats and at ATT 86 and that was totally deserved given his role, ability, overall decent passing and goalscoring ability and threat last year, but this year i find the 84 enough.

EDIT:
Mr. Evans wrote:Yeah exactly, he's deceptively strong or better said his balance is deceptively good. You look at him and see this short and very skinny guy but you can't just knock him down.


yet another reason why there should be separate stats for BB, Strength and "pure" balance which is mostly present on "small" guys is needed.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 Mar 14, 19:55

cale1991 wrote:and on DS i really want him to remain on DS just as i said before, because of the burst and because like i said can't see him losing much pace on the ball, he may jog mostly when on the ball but when he goes sprinting with it you can hardly see the difference with or without the ball

I still don't agree with you on this. I've never seen him run at this pace. Even Iniesta runs at higher at a higher pace more often than him. And even if he did have this kind of pace on the ball, to give him such a value based on such a rare occurance would be wrong.

and that's the main reason! he's just too darn inconsistent in his speed off the ball, you can never really know what to expect, like against Koscielny at Emirates where he made a complete sucker out of him...

Koscielny's a fast defender though, people shouldn't forget that (and his anticipation is fantastic).

Mr. Evans wrote:I wouldn't call him a very smart player, he can be so frustrating. On his day (red arrow in PES terms), he can be very dangerous but he's not consistently that way. Right now for example he's in good form but he was so poor in the first half of the season. Last season I'd rate him like a 86/87 but based on the current season a 84 is a pretty fair value. We shouldn't focus on the good too much.


yet another reason why there should be separate stats for BB, Strength and "pure" balance which is mostly present on "small" guys is needed.

FIFA! :lol:
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 15, 19:06

most definitely the thing which makes Robinho so overpowered this season is the waaay overrated ATT they've given him in PES 2012,


I really disagree with you. The attack isn't far off at all. It's the insane agility value with that really high ds/da that makes him overpowered. I stand by that Robinho is a very smart player. His movement is great both in support and creating danger. He chooses the right things at the right time, especially in his dribbling, he can easily open up a defence just by making a swift turn. He has a good eye for a pass too. Picks out his passes fast, they do lack some accuracy though. He works really well with his team mates, his link movement also creates a lot of danger. You know he always wastes a tone of the best chances? Theres a reason behind that, because he is very dangerous, he gets alot of these great chances for this reason, it's just his awful shooting that make people think hes useless.

When you compare Robinho to say Kaka... it's easy to see which one will bring more danger to the team, he can be a threat in so many ways, kaka can't. If it weren't for his crappy shooting...

Anways since I got some time to post I'll elaborate further on his set.

Attack is 87 for me, and not far off his 89.. take from that what you will.

bal: Without doubts, agree with 80, hes very hard to shrug off the ball. He gets through at times you are sure hes gonna be dispossed, because he doesn't give up and is aggressive in trying to stay up, never would expect it from his frame, but since his man city days hes really been hard to knock down.

ACC is too high, he doesn't show a burst this good, pretty much ever.

response is slightly too high. I have him at 81 personally.

Agility... rarely shows it, but he can make turns faster than iniesta, so it's fine on 90.

DA: 95/96. Even based on the close control aspect I see him as a red tbh, he doesn't really rely on it, but when he does it's flawless.

DS: 88-90. He doesn't use it much to beat players and he tends to go for control and tricks to beat his man, but when hes carrying it forward in space, he does move with it at a very decent speed, doesn't really slow down at all imo. Slows down for normal dribbling? Yes, because speed is rarely what he wants to use to beat a player.

SPA... I just feel he is a passer that plays passes that are far over an 80 in terms of diffuclty. He has a good eye for a pass and does make some really nice ones, it's his sps that gets him, though he can put good weight on them sometimes.. he just weights them incorrectly a lot of the times, be it too strong or too weak. I see him at an 80.

aggression... why is this 80? Thats lower than Ibra. Whatever criteria you use to define aggression, Robinho should not be an 80. Hes constantly attacking, constantly. Hes not a lazy player like Ibra, he moves a lot, he attacks a lot, he supports a lot, he makes a lot of runs. 87 is what I have him on.

TW: Should be around the 80 mark, his movement is all over the pitch. He supports his team mates a great amount, even with dummy runner I feel he should have 80. His movement is one of his strong points. Also his movement is good... it creates a lot of danger. Another reason he should have high attack.

SP should be lower as well. I think this is his main problem. Yeah, he can put a good bit of power in them. But when he actually wants to, he really seems to struggle with it. When a shot requires power, he tends to try to hard which means he takes a shot and total fucks it up, he can't generate power and aim. Hes actually a decent placer of the ball.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby tasmin » 2012 Mar 16, 10:25

agility is over-powered in psd too. players actually don't need such high agility to make twists.we need to give a player the actual agility by testing.same i would say for SP.

ya robinho is one of the great attacking players imo.he is a bit like current suarez.great attacking player but shit at shooting.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Paddy » 2012 Mar 16, 19:59

I don't think you're watching Robinho jurgens. He's fucking shit.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 16, 20:18

Yeah, hes fucking shit :lol: Theres a reason why he plays for AC milan, a reason why he was one of the only survivors of 2010 world cup, a reason why he has a cemented first place in the national team. It's obviously because hes fucken shit and brings nothing to any of those teams, I mean hes only able to create a goal every 70 minitues hes on the pitch, useless player.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Paddy » 2012 Mar 16, 21:33

Do you actually watch his play are you just basing your opinion on statistics? Urby is already a better player than he is.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 16, 22:08

Do you actually watch his play, or do you just not see how easily he opens defences and creates danger and call him a shit player because hes awful at shooting?
Robinho is a great player when hes on form, he can be dumb at times and his shooting is just awfull. Still a great player though.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Paddy » 2012 Mar 16, 22:21

He's very rarely on form though and when he's off form, by god he's one of the most frustrating players in the world to watch and has been for ages. He can be very good, but oftentimes he's falling over constantly and fluffing chances and passes, with a player like Ibra up front its not surprising he has so many assists Cassano has as many assists as him in the league and he's only played like half as many matches, most of which he didn't finish or start, Aquilani is similar, for any of the players involved in the squad will have assists by just giving Zlatan the ball. He's still selfish as shit and inconsistent as hell.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Fantasista » 2012 Mar 16, 22:30

He's still selfish as shit and inconsistent as hell.

Well said :lol:
show some fcking respect
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 24, 06:36

can we do something about these stats?
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby čale » 2012 Mar 24, 10:07

be my guest, i've tried my best on him...
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby crisfar » 2012 Mar 24, 11:40

Personally I agree on values suggested by jurgens a week or so ago...slight more attack (for me 85), bal can be good 78, maximum 79 I dunn about 80, high greens are still good numbers, less res (81), not against da 95 (that s why do not want to go so much up in bal), drop ds I can even go around 86-88, more spa (80-81), if we decrease SP then I would go a little up in ST 75-76, more agg and I also agre to go in yellows for tw he really helps a lot the team moving very much off the ball that is way Allegri usually have picked him to play rather than his other strikers...
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby 21fadhil » 2012 Mar 24, 14:24

I think 87 is the best value for both aggression and attack, 81 for TW (yeah...he moves a lot), and i'm pretty sure about 80 for his balance (i think he's actually can shield opponent better than Pato).I also agree about response and whole dribbling thing (his DS is 87 for me).Can see about 75 for both SP and ST.Both of them are the main problem in his shooting.About Acceleration, i can see him sit on 84-85.
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Re: ROBINHO

Postby Epsi » 2012 Mar 30, 11:45

I'd drop attack to 85 and condition to 4 if nobody disagrees. Then I'd raise his curl by 2-3 pts..

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