Overall rating Algorithm


Moderator: Mod's

Forum rules
vinnie
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: 2012 Apr 06, 03:11
Location: ♛      
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2014 Sep 07, 05:41

Something that's always bothered me is how there doesn't yet exist a useful overall rating algorithm to accurately reflect a players prowess and worth. I like overall ratings, they can give you an easy and general understanding of a player's full talent potential, and are very useful for browsers or users, IF they are accurate or intelligently calculated.

Most of us that regularly contribute here don't need an overall rating to understand a players overall worth, but having an algorithm will make things very easy to compare and get a general understanding of a player's overall rating by us through the individual attributes as a collective, at a glance for those who aren't as in depth as some of us are.

The fact that such an overall rating method doesn't exist annoys me.

Therefore i put a little time just now in trying to make one work. So far i have this for the CF position:

So i've been trying to rework the CF overalls.. i think i've got something that can be used off the bat.

the algorithm i used before was too focused on trying to realise overalls that i wanted, and there were so many additional rules concerning stars and form, injury tolerance etc that anytime i had to tweak something to better balance the formula, that fucker became a nightmare to keep track of.

not to mention, who gives a shit about all that crap.

This adjusted one is simply about stats, no accountance of inury tolerance or stars, and form only has a down effect, i.e 4 or below is -1, 2 is -2, 1 is -3 (OVR).

Also i made the key attributes more heavily weighted.. so that the all around players who aren't exceptional don't manage to get great OVR values. But the increased all around weigthing on attacking attributes is higher, so a CF like Sturridge isn't underrated. In the original calcs, he was an 82. With this one, he's at 86.

This is how it looks for CF's.

ATT1.3
DEF 0.05
BB 1
STA 0.25
TS 0.65
ACC 0.75
RES 1.3
DA 0.6
DS 0.45
AGI 0.25
SPA 0.35
SPS 0.1
LPA 0.2
LPS 0.05
SA 1.1
SPS 0.65
ST 1.3
TEC 0.55
HEA 1.3
JUM 0.95
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1.1
TOTAL
x 15.1
-380





List of calculated Overalls so far:

CF


Spoiler: show
Ronaldo : 97

Marco Van Basten : 97

Gerd : 96

Ruud Van Nistelrooy : 96

Shearer : 96

Falcao : 96

Weah : 96

Romario : 95

Batistuta : 95

Shevchenko : 95

Vieri : 94

Papin : 94

Klinnsman : 94

Drogba : 94

Suarez : 93

Henry : 93

Cantona : 93

Voller : 93

Trezeguet : 93

Eto'o : 93

Owen : 92

Aguero : 92

Wright : 92

Torres : 92

Crespo : 92

Butragueno : 92

Zamorano : 92

Zlatan : 91

Tevez : 91

Van Persie : 91

Diego Costa : 91

Villa : 91

Inzaghi : 91

Šuker : 91

Mark Hughes : 91

Diego Milito : 90

Cavani : 90

Rooney : 90

Kluivert : 90

B. Laudrup : 90

Andy Cole : 90

Linekaar : 89

Lewandowski : 89

Edin Džeko : 89

Huntelaar : 89

Palermo : 89

Di Natale : 89

Higuain : 89

Negredo : 89

Solskjær : 89

Benzema : 88

Mandzukic : 88

Kießling : 88

Chicharito : 88

Bacca : 88

Kevin Phillips: 87

Aubameyang : 87

Yilmaz : 87

Palacio : 87

Sturridge: 86

Adebayor : 86

Giroud : 86

Bony : 86

Gignac : 86

Immobile: 86

Remy : 86

Benteke : 85

Kanu : 85

Luca Toni : 85

Gameiro : 85

Andy Caroll : 84

Balotelli : 84

Welbeck : 84

Lukaku : 84

Papiss Cissé : 84

Paco Alcácer : 84

Llorente : 83

Uche : 83

Helmes : 83

Lambert : 83

Emenike : 83

Fred : 82

Jelavic : 82

Raúl Jiménez : 82

Altidore : 82

Van Wolfswinkel : 81

Xisco : 80

Crouch : 79




It's still flawed, but i think it gets the lower tier strikers right if you talk about their overalls, the likes of bony, giroud, benteke, palaciao. i'm happy about that at the least.


Take into consideration that any little set flaws or inflations (i.e needlessly high fk/curl, etc) will contribute to inaccurate ratings.. to it's hard to get this perfect, i just like this balance, so that poachers don't totally reign supreme, and the lazier but technically gifted aren't undermined by a CF templative demand.
If i took the PSD Hakan Sukur set and used the algorithm, he comes out as a 93.. and honestly looking at the set, that's an overall that makes sense, as his set makes him look like a monstrosity of a CF.. but if i used the default classic Sukur stats for the algorithm, he comes out as only 89. There was a huge difference between the default classic Sukur and the PSD Sukur, so outdated sets can be a problem clearly.

Also, the differences between some of these players is often not really an entire point, often it's maybe even a difference of 0.2, say, weah is 95.6, and Romario is 95.4, Weah is rounded to 96 while Romario is rounded down to 95, so there's often smaller differences between players then an entire point.

*And someone like Henry is more of an SS then a CF, but i just wanted to see how his rating would turn out. He should be a red overall as an SS but i've yet to make a good SS algorithm.

If you pay attention, Players like Rooney, Balotelli, Fred, they all have lower overalls then they should due to form. rooney form 4 is -1 from 91, balotelli form 2 is -2 from 86, fred form 2 is -2 from 84, Remy is a form 4 , -1 to 86 from 87, Andy caroll down to 84 from 85 due to form 4.

Also something i noticed is how careless some of the fringe sets or outdated classic sets can be, take burak yilmaz for example, two or three people comment that his technical skills are terrible, that he shouldn't even be above 75 ball control or greens dribbling, but he sits at 82 technique and 80 da ds, basically all yellows for technical ability despite his description. In players like these i just compared the comments to the default set and used some common sense. We should check for these sets and just fix them right away, some would say this is standardization to a stretch, but honestly that's way better then having totally overrated fringe league superstars. I've seen some comments that we make fringe players too complete, too technically unflawed, and to some extent, i agree that there are certainly examples of this in our database that we've yet to correct.




ATT1.7
DEF 0.15
BB 0.8
STA 0.35
TS 0.8
ACC 0.9
RES 1
DA 1.4
DS 0.75
AGI 0.45
SPA 1.5
SPS 0.6
LPA 1.1
LPS 0.3
SA 1.75
SPS 0.65
ST 1.2
TEC 1.2
HEA 0.75
JUM 0.6
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1
TOTAL
x 19.8
-790






List of calculated Overalls so far:

SS


Spoiler: show
Messi : 100

Cruyff : 98

Cristiano : 97

Ronaldinho : 96

Pele : 95

Henry : 95

Cantona : 94

Baggio: 93

Rivaldo : 93

Stoichkov: 93

Raul : 92

Bergkamp: 92

Rummenigge : 92

Suarez : 92

Uli Hoeness: 91

Aguero : 91

Enzo: 91

Del Piero : 90

Mancini : 90

Tevez : 90

Litmanen : 89

Zola : 89

Le Tissier : 88

G. Rossi : 88

Luc Nilis : 87

Neymar : 87

Jovetic : 87

Gudjohnsen : 87

Alexis Sanchez : 87

Van Der Vaart : 87

Cassano : 87

Miccoli : 87

Recoba : 87

Totti : 86

Mutu : 86

Beardsley : 86

Di Canio : 86

Asprilla : 86

Palacio : 85

Ortega : 85

Giovinco : 85

Sturridge : 84

Robinho : 84

Arshavin : 84

Pedro : 84

Lamela : 84

Callejon : 84

Nenê : 84

Sheringham : 83

Brolin : 83

Podolski : 83

Malouda : 83

Quagliarella : 83

C. Vela : 82

Lavezzi : 82

Vucinic : 82

Kuyt : 82

Donovan : 81

Michu : 80

Menez : 80

Munian : 80

Welbeck : 80

Ljajic : 79

Markovic : 78

L. Muriel : 78

Iago Aspas : 78

Ibarbo : 78

Borini : 77


As you can see in the attribute weightings, there's a much heavier emphasis on technique and passing, and thus the more scoring centred ss's go down a bit, but the creator ss's go up (in relativity at least).


That 100 Messi is the 11-12 one, current messi is 97/96 ( 96 based some early season changes that are only reflective of the season so far like 97 da 92 sa)

pedro and vucinic's are prime sets.


Same thing, but now i've reworked it for WF

ATT1.7
DEF 0.15
BB 0.7
STA 0.5
TS 1.25
ACC 1.3
RES 0.75
DA 1.5
DS 1.2
AGI 0.8
SPA 0.8
SPS 0.4
LPA 0.9
LPS 0.7
SA 1.1
SPS 0.75
ST 0.8
TEC 1
HEA 0.55
JUM 0.5
MEN 0.4
TW 0.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 1
TOTAL
x 19.2
-740




List of calculated Overalls so far:

WF


Spoiler: show
Best: 93

Robben : 93

Giggs : 92

Littbarski : 92

Johnstone : 90

Figo : 89

Jairzinho : 88

Claudio Lopez : 88

Caniggia : 88

Conti : 87

Overmars : 86

Kanchelski : 85

Moura : 85

Keizer : 85

Giuly : 85

Waddle : 84

Hulk : 84

Griezmann : 84

El Shaarawy : 84

Mertens : 83

Denilson : 82

Walcott : 82

Gervinho : 82

Agbonlahor : 80

Deulofeu : 80

Townsend : 78

B. Ruiz : 77


Again, the distinguishment between a natural WF and an smf who can play SMF might seem slight, but for example an SMF will be much more focused on long passing, less on speed, more on teamwork, passing, so a Figo would shine.

Also, WF's tend to have a small impact on the game, so I just aimed to have the robben's etc at 93 or so, and then from there the rest follow beneath, and I think this gives the WF an overall that's appreciative of what they can do, but rather then saying that they're a 99 overall wf, the overall says it's an 93 overall effect on the game, or importance.


Legends:

Didn't want to put them in the same list as it might kind of skew.

Spoiler: show
WF

Messi 2008 : 97

C. Ronaldo 2008 : 96

C. Ronaldo 2006 : 94

Henry 2008 : 90


A fix i'm going to try later is just adjusting header weigting from 0.9 to 0.75, and jump from 0.75 to 0.6, as i don't think these attributes should have so much weighting, after some reflect and observation.[/quote]

Same thing, but now i've reworked it for SMF

ATT 2
DEF 0.55
BB 0.65
STA 1.1
TS 1.8
ACC 1.7
RES 0.55
DA 2.4
DS 1.3
AGI 0.7
SPA 0.9
SPS 0.7
LPA 3
LPS 2.3
SA 0.75
SPS 0.7
ST 0.55
TEC 0.9
HEA 0.3
JUM 0.25
MEN 0.3
TW 0.9
FK 0.1
CUR 0.165
AGG 0.9
TOTAL
x 25.465




List of calculated Overalls so far:

SMF

Spoiler: show
Hagi: 95

Figo: 93

Ribery : 93

Giggs : 91

Di Maria : 90

Bale : 89

Candreva : 88

Beckham : 87

J. Navas : 87

Ginola : 86

Reus : 86

Camorenesi : 86

Cuadrado : 86

Ljungberg : 85

Donadoni : 85

Kewell : 85

Simao : 84

Shaqiri : 84

Joaquin : 83

Bertolini : 83

Krasic : 83

Willian : 82

Salihamidžic : 82

Arda Turan : 82

Nani : 82

Joe Cole : 81

Maxi : 81

Milner : 80

Gökhan Töre : 80

McGeady : 80

Quaresma : 79

Lennon : 79

Ben Arfa : 79

Sterling : 78

Ashley Young : 77

Mirallas : 77

Oxlaide-Chamberlain : 77

Feghouli : 77

S. Larsson : 77

Zaha : 75

Großkreutz : 74

Konoplyanka : 74



This position was one of the toughest to figure out how to weigh attributes, because there are just so many different kinds of SMF's, average speed, average dribbling, but exceptional long ball and final ability smf's like beckham/ larrsson, speed demons like lennon, technical demons like quaresma, defensive beasts like grosskreutz, and then all the mixes and amalgamations of these players.

My solution was to theorize that, the SMF is in itself, a sort of proclamation of limitedness, because all the greatest SMF's save the one's who are just slow, or poor finishers, become WF's, or, designated and built around to create scoring chances. SMF's are not so free, they are expected to be more two way, and the team depends on them less for being the difference maker, whether because they lack explosiveness, finishing, or final third ability.

In that sense the perfect SMF is just a player with great stamina, great speed, great dribbling decent defensive work rate, good team ability, and a great long ball. They aren't the assassins, and 99% of SMF's will only excel at 2-3 out of these 6-7 important abilities. In that sense, they are limited players, who are in their own role, limited.

Therefore I don't believe that Ox's or Quaresma's or young's are very underrated. If you look at their sets.. they are really only good at 2-3 areas, and in the rest, average.

My problem is that maybe I didn't put enough weigthing on speed... but one of the primary goals I had was to have figo at 93, beckham at 86/87. If you put any more weigthing on speed then it is at now, the likes of cuadrado and co would crush beckham etc.

If speed weighting went up.. Ox and co could come up a little bit in relativity.. but keep in mind, those speed monsters will even dwarf them.. so it's a very tricky balance.

This position is very hard, so if anyone else has comments about the ladder from this calculation, that will be great




Miscellanious

Spoiler: show
SMF


Hazard : 86

C. Ronaldo 2004 : 84


Same thing, but now i've reworked it for CMF, and DMF

ATT1
DEF 1.6
BB 0.95
STA 1.2
TS 0.6
ACC 0.75
RES 0.9
DA 1.0
DS 0.7
AGI 0.45
SPA 2.2
SPS 1.2
LPA 2.2
LPS 1.2
SA 0.7
SPS 0.8
ST 0.7
TEC 1.6
HEA 0.45
JUM 0.3
MEN 0.6
TW 2.0
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 0.65
TOTAL
x 23.9
-1100




List of calculated Overalls so far:

CMF


Spoiler: show
Matthaus: 95

Xavi: 94

Iniesta : 92

Yaya Toure : 92

Deco : 91

Scholes : 90

Bernd Schuster : 90

Pirlo : 90

Lampard: 90

Seedorf : 89

Albertini : 89

Simeone : 89

Vieira : 88

Fabregas : 88

Modric : 88

Vidal : 88

Mendieta : 88

Rakitic : 88

Ze Roberto : 87

Thiago : 87

Conte : 87

Borja : 87

Effenberg : 87

Kroos : 86

De La Pena : 86

Marchisio : 86

Strootman : 86

Gerrard : 86

Sahin : 85

Pogba : 85

Tigana : 85

Van Bommel : 85

Gundogan : 85

Pjanic : 85

Kovačić : 84

Moutinho : 84

Gabi : 84

Barry : 84

Gravesen : 84

Fernandinho : 84

Montolivo : 83

Redknapp : 83

Wilshere : 83

Ramsey : 83

Aquilani : 83

Bender : 83

Cabaye : 83

Koke : 82

Nainggolan : 82

Ray Wilkins : 82

Paulinho : 82

Carrick : 81

Henderson : 81

Banega : 80

Matuidi : 80

Dembele : 80

Bradley : 80

Flamini : 80

Joe Allen : 79

Fellaini : 79

Sissoko : 77

Ramires : 77

M. Suarez : 76

Freddy Guarin : 74





Legends ~ 60's 70's and Primes

Spoiler: show
CMF

Gerrard : 94

Neeskens : 93

Robson : 91

Tardelli : 87

Gerson : 87









ATT1
DEF 3.3
BB 1.2
STA 0.85
TS 0.6
ACC 0.75
RES 1.4
DA 0.9
DS 0.7
AGI 0.45
SPA 1.5
SPS 1.0
LPA 1.6
LPS 1.0
SA 0.4
SPS 0.5
ST 0.4
TEC 0.9
HEA 0.6
JUM 0.5
MEN 0.85
TW 1.3
FK 0.1
CUR 0.05
AGG 0.4
TOTAL
x 22.2
-940




List of calculated Overalls so far:

DMF


Spoiler: show
Rijkaard: 96

Keane: 92

Redondo : 90

Cambiasso: 90

De Rossi : 89

Edgar Davids : 89

Guardiola : 88

Dunga : 87

Emerson : 87

Mascherano : 87

X. Alonso : 87

Paul Ince : 86

Hamann : 86

Matic : 86

J. Martinez : 86

Verratti : 86

Pirlo : 85

Senna : 85

Deschamps : 85

Makelele : 84

Busquets : 83

M. Silva : 84

G. Silva : 84

Assuncao : 83

Toulalan : 83

Desailly : 83

Mavuba : 83

S. Kehl : 83

Nicky Butt : 82

I. Helguera : 82

Inler : 82

Sven Bender : 81

L. Biglia : 81

Ambrosini : 81

Gattuso : 80

Luiz Gustavo : 80

Jon Obi Mikel : 79

Javi Garcia : 79

Albelda : 78

Iturraspe : 77





My thoughts on Pirlo's 'anomaly' rating, obviously I wouldn't have envisioned Pirlo being an 85, nor did I plan on it, if I had my vision, he would be 90ish, since it's pirlo after all. But what is he really? He doesn't do the DMF duties very well, at least if you look at his set. 83 stamina, 64 defence, 75 response, low mentality, low strength, low speed, no aerial ability. He's a deep lying playmaker, but why should the template be based on his strengths? A DMF should be the one that protects the back 4, the one that dominates loose balls and keeps opposition dominance out of the middle. Pirlo will do none of that, and he's crushed by the likes of keane, de rossi, Redondo. Even the likes of Guardiola/Alonso. They both have similarly godly passing ability, in every facet. But Guardiola is at least decent defensively, with 74 defence, and 82 response. That gap of 10 defence and 7 response makes a difference of 5 overall points alone. If Pirlo had values similar to his default set for pes 6 ish, he'd be up to 88+ Overall. As it is, I think it's justified that Pirlo has a good, but not great Overall, just as the likes of Aguero, Suarez et all shouldn't have the outstanding SS overall ratings even though they are historic level goal scorers, or Zlatan shouldn't have the godly CF rating to match his technical level and goalscoring rate, due to his deficiencies in key CF traits, deficiencies that have always been exposed in Europe.

And if I think of Pirlo (of the little I know), then I think of him dominating the weak midfield of England at the euro 2012, but then getting destroyed against spain being pretty unable to do anything to stop spain's midfield dominance.

Following this logic if it's to be applied to DMF's,
Pirlo hasn't been made to be a good enough DMF in his set to deserve more then the 85 overall he gets as a DMF, so I'm ok with the rating. The possibility is that he's underrated, but I don't know pirlo of 2006, or really, in general.








Original draft:


Spoiler: show
1000

cf

att 0.80
def 0.05
bb 0.70
sta 0.25
ts 0.45
acc 0.55
res 0.80
da 0.45
ds 0.20
agi 0.25
spa 0.30
sps 0.10
lpa 0.15
lps 0.05
sa 0.75
sp 0.60
st 0.80
tec 0.55
hea 0.80
jum 0.70 +1.__ height /1.83
men 0.40
tw 0.30
fk 0.10
swe 0.5

con
wfa
wff


Muller

79.2
1.55
56.7
20
36.45
46.75
79.2
35.55
15.2
20.75
22.5
7.5
10.5
3.5
72.75
46.8
76
46.2
74.4
58.8
64.25
31.6
6.3
3.9

wfa >4 ->tn=10(n-5), 8=40, n = wfa
wfa <4 ->tn=10(5-n), 1=-40, n =wff

wff >4 ->tn=5(n-4), 8=40, n = wfa
wfa <4 ->tn=10(4-n), 1=-40, n =wff

cond >5 ->tn=10(n-5), 8=40 | <4 ->tn=-5+-10(1-n), 1=-40

scoring 10
1-1 10
1-touch 10
lines 5
reaction 5
positioning 5
...
...




So how does this work? the player's rating in each attribute (1=99) will be mulitplied by a factor according to the importance of the attribute to the position, so that important attributes will have a higher weighting in the overall rating.

using this algorithm i put together quickly, i tested it on Gerd Muller. The numbers under Muller = the result, i.e 99 attack x .8= 79.2 etc.

at the end all the sums add to 1000 which divides by 10 to 100, creating a rating out of 100.

stars have base value, and wff/cond/wfa depend on simple ratio sequence in tn=a+d(n-1) (or x-n)

and i actually fucked up by forgetting to include aggression, but then decided that a lazy compromise is multiplying the total by the aggression value, because afterall the worth is then how much that ability is used right?

Nah just lazy. but it works, ish for now.

Using this Muller was calculated to be a base value 90.7, +wff (3)+wfa(3)+ cond (2)+ stars= 102.7

Now this calculation needs alot of small tweaks.. things i missed out, weighting which should be adjusted, but i want to leave this here so other people can fiddle with it or propose stuff for other positions. i think as a basic, this way of finding an overall doesn't have too many flaws, and is dynamic in that it accounts for position in an more accurate manner then konami's mostly useless overall rating system.

i find math boring so if other people want to give it a shot, it would be greatly valuable.


edit: i made a lazy fix ..

Using this Muller was calculated to be a base value 90.7,

instead of multiplying the base value by aggression (which would too unfairly handicapp less aggressive forwards), i set aggression to weight 8.0, used that as an additional value, then deducted 11 from the final total so that
+wff (3)+wfa(3)+ cond (2)+ stars= 110.62 (-11) = 99.6, make him the bench mark. I find it fitting that the benchmark CF gets the benchmark value, 99.


Following this i tried some other players.

i tried Marco Van Basten and got 89.9 base value, +7.36 + wff (3)+wfa(4) + cond (1)+ stars (-11)= 97

I tried Diego Costa and got 82.1 base value +6.8 agg +wff (1)+wfa(2) + cond (2) + stars (-11)= 85

I tried Diego Milito and go 88.97 +wff (2)+ wfa(3) +stars (-11)= 89


Do those ratings not seem pretty reasonable and reflective to most people?

I think with some more thoughtful tweaks they can be even better reflective... but i'm pleased with the room for adjustment... which seems balanced enough so far as i can tell.





Eto'o has a base value of 876.75 +agg = 952.75 +2+2+2+2-11= 92
possibly the 08-09 set is slightly incomplete and this isn't totally a fair reflection, i only added it to the DB a few days ago without indepth personal knowledge.














List of calculated Overalls so far:

CF

Ronaldo : 99

Romario : 98

Marco Van Basten : 97

Ruud Van Nistelrooy : 97

Shearer : 97

Falcao : 96

Batistuta : 96

Shevchenko : 96

Zlatan : 95

Henry : 94

Van Persie : 94

Drogba : 93

Villa : 93

Eto'o : 92

Vieri : 92

Inzaghi : 91

Lewandowski : 91

Edin Džeko : 90

Frédéric Kanouté : 90

Diego Milito : 89

Rooney : 89

Benzema : 88

Diego Costa : 85

Chicharito : 84

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Dec 06, 07:27, edited 8 times in total.
Reason: added players (fabregas, kroos, modric, inler, kovacic, carrick, biglia, montolivo, aquilani, ince, butt, schuster), added SMF Overalls
If you don't put effort into your post, i won't put effort in my response.
Obdz
New Contributor
Posts: 14
Joined: 2016 Jun 18, 00:06
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Obdz » 2018 May 29, 19:17

Does anyone have the latest updated formulas/calculations for this pls?
vinnie
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: 2012 Apr 06, 03:11
Location: ♛      
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2019 May 12, 20:02

So i am close to finalizing some updated versions of the Overall Ratings formulas. These new formulas will be able to take Weak Foot Accuracy and Weak Foot Frequency into account.

At the moment, the scale i am using can be explained through this index below:

Spoiler: show
99 Greatest of all time, so far only 3-5 players at this level in football history.
97 Top ten of all time.
95-96 Top 20 of all time.
93-94 One of the 3-5 best of a decade within a league.
90-92 World Class players, Top twenty players in the planet at any given season.
87-89 Elite player, One of the top ten players in one of the top leagues at any given season
84-86 Excellent player, the bottom half of the top twenty players in one of the top leagues at any given season.
80-83 Very Good players, the consistently starting players for mid table Europa spot challenging teams in a top level league.
77-79 Good players, the slightly above average player in one of the top leagues.
74-76 Decent players, the average player in one of the top leagues, who tends to start for teams just above the relegation level clubs.
71-73 Mediocre players, substitute level players for mid-table teams, starting players for relegation level teams in a top league.
68-70 Flawed players, players that have little capacity to play for any team within the very best leagues in any capacity whatsoever. Mostly starting players for tier 3 leagues.
66-67 Poor players, players that tend to play for the mid table teams of tier 3 leagues.
63-65 Weak players, substitute players for mid-table tier 3 league teams, starting players for tier 4 leagues.
60-62 Barely professional players, players that are hardly above the amateur level, starting players for tier 5 leagues, substitutes for tier 4

Below 59 Amateurs

57-59 Exceptional amateurs that were close to becoming professionals, possibly played in good professional tier 1/2 academies as youth, and regularly play and are highly influential at the entry level semi-professional leagues.
54-56 Good amateurs that are valuable but not stars at their semi-professional leagues
51-53 Decent Amateurs that more than pulls their own weight, but seldom more than that.
48-50 Average Amateur, a player that isn't coveted, but is not burdensome at the amateur level.
45-47 Flawed amateurs, players that are suspectible to errors due to tactical or physical, or technical weaknesses, but otherwise have serviceable qualities and are generally acceptable
41-44 Poor Amateurs, players that tend to be below par tactically, physically, or technically; these players are somewhat burdensome.

Below 40- Non-Regular Amatuers, players that are not in match condition and have sorely lacked football practice; they either seldom play, or have far less total experience playing football compared to someone who regularly played football all through their childhood. VERY FEW adult players should be at this level if they regularly play in Men's leagues.



Because the Overall ratings takes into consider the TOTAL accumulation of relevant attributes to a particular position, it can detect sets that are overrated due to being too all around inflated in minor ways.

What i realize though, is that this is an invaluable tool for the mod team because of the ability of the Overall ratings to seperate tiers of players who play at what we all agree are different levels of leagues.

We all know for example that an average, medium level player in the premier league should be much better than an average, medium level player in the mexican league, or the russian league, dutch league, etc.

However, what happens with lower level leagues is that over time players gradually become inflated through seemingly minor generous ratings here or there. I imagine it's just that a fringe league mod hesitates to give say a decent but unremarkable mexican league player ratings that seem "too harsh". The "harsh" ratings are usually objectively deserved, but when a mod for such a league looks at the global standard, that mod might have a hard time accepting how much lower the standard of that league he's in charge of is.

And so over time, say we have a quite average winger..he gets 5 goals and assists per season in the mexican league, which is decent, but he's not someone scouts from the best european leagues are interested in acquiring- it's a solidly average mexican league player.

let me create an imaginary profile of such a player using descriptions first, then i'll make a set to describe what that player should be rated like based off of my descriptions, but then what such a player tends to be rated like due to unjustified generosity.


So let's look at this imagined average winger: Jonathan Diaz. Diaz is a nimble, tricky winger. he's got a decent burst of pace that he is successful with against most fullbacks if he uses good timing- but he is not explosive enough to be threatening to zip past defenders unless he is very clever and composed. Diaz can carry the ball a little bit, but is not fast enough to peel away after beating a defender- he can only keep the advantage he gains after beating a defender for about 9 yards, so he needs to make a pass or shot quickly after beating a defender if he wants to take advantage of beating a defender.

Diaz is a mediocre shooter with below average power [in the mexican league!], but he has decent striking technique. Diaz has a decent first touch; he won't make magic, and he isn't especially dependable, he is merely not a liability.
Diaz has a nice cross but he lacks pace on his crossing; this is a weakness in his crossing that isn't exposed in the mexican league because of the lower pace of play and lower quality marking from defenders. diaz is below average in terms of his strength, not unusual for a short winger. Diaz has a decent jump but poor heading skills.

Diaz is positive offensively, he'll cross when he should, he'll dribble to shoot if he has alot of space. Diaz runs out of unique ideas when the opponents organize themselves defensively though and will tend to recycle possesion or force a dribble and cross.

Diaz is one footed, and has average form. He has decent workrate, but average stamina. Jonathan Diaz isn't a difference maker in difficult late moments of a match.

well what should such a player look like?

i'd say:


Spoiler: show
height: 171 cm
age: 25

Attack: 71
Defence: 40
Balance: 67
Stamina: 78
Top Speed: 76
Acceleration: 80
Response: 67
Agility: 82
Dribble Accuracy: 76
Dribble Speed: 76
Short Pass Accuracy: 71
Short Pass Speed: 67
Long Pass Accuracy: 76
Long Pass Speed: 69
Shot Accuracy: 65
Shot Power: 71
Shot Technique: 68
Free Kick Accuracy: 65
Curling: 72
Header: 58
Jump: 70
Technique: 76
Aggression: 75
Mentality: 67
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 68

Condition/Fitness: 4
Weak Foot Accuracy: 3
Weak Foot Frequency: 3


Overall Rating: 70


But what i see is, that a player such as our imagined Jonathan Diaz, actually tends to be rated more like this:

Spoiler: show
height: 171 cm
age: 25

Attack: 75
Defence: 44
Balance: 73
Stamina: 82
Top Speed: 78
Acceleration: 83
Response: 71
Agility: 84
Dribble Accuracy: 79
Dribble Speed: 78
Short Pass Accuracy: 71
Short Pass Speed: 70
Long Pass Accuracy: 78
Long Pass Speed: 76
Shot Accuracy: 65
Shot Power: 77
Shot Technique: 71
Free Kick Accuracy: 65
Curling: 72
Header: 58
Jump: 70
Technique: 79
Aggression: 78
Mentality: 72
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 68

Condition/Fitness: 4
Weak Foot Accuracy: 3
Weak Foot Frequency: 3


Overall Rating: 75


This is a representation of the same kind of player.. but it's just a better version in every way. What i see happening very very often with fringe leagues is a difficulty for mods to rate players as "harshly" as they sometimes should be rated. Now for the mods, it's very hard for us to keep track of the work of other mods in fringe leagues. And how would a Global moderator even notice a set like this? It's after all, a very reasonable set if this set describes a pretty good side midfielder- one of the better midfielders in the league- at least in a lower tier league like mexico. This isn't a great set after all, if a mod from the epl or la liga were to look at this set, they'd just see a midtable/ relegation level team player for one of the top tier leagues like the premier league, or epl, or la liga.

But this is supposedly a pretty average Mexican league player, a Tier 4 or so level player. An average mexican league player should be significantly worse than even the worst Tier 1 league players in la liga etc.



If you were to look at the above set, it's almost impossible to notice anything suspcious about it, when in fact it's an inaccurate, overrated set. There's nothing standout about it, the dribbling values are all unremarkable, not even such a good agility rating is eye-catching. A set like this second version of Diaz is therefore almost impossible to identify. These are the kinds of sets that only when you take an extra minute to learn about that players' achievements, general characteristics, and where they've spent their career that you may realize that a set is overrated. And unfortunately, i stumble onto sets like this all of the time- always randomly.

So this is where i realized that there is a tremendous potential value, for which these overall ratings i've made, can have.

Consider the OVERALL rating of that first diaz set. That set has an SMF OVR rating of 70. This falls right in line with an average smf for a Tier 4 league like mexico.
But what's the overall rating of the second, inflated set? The inflated set has an OVR of 75. This rating puts Diaz as equal to the quality of lower mid-table to relegation level Tier 1 wingers; we know this isn't possible because Diaz is just an unremarkable Tier 4 winger, he's almost a lower mid-table level in his current league let alone a much much higher quality league.

So what i've realized is that we now have a powerful tool with which to check the GLOBAL standards of stats rating. We can use overall ratings to make sure that there are significant differences between different level leagues.

What i've tried to demonstrate above is just how subtle inflating sets is. But the effect of inflating sets is terrible on making sure our lower tier leagues are rated accurately. What happens is a ripple effect where now the worst players of the worst leagues end up with sets that are way too close to being respectable players, and then the sets of the elite players of the worst leagues are way too close to being equal to the elite players of much better leagues.

Look at this here; this is a screenshot of the database's current ladder of SMFs in Mexico:
Image

I didn't actually look at any mexican players when making my hypothetical set, but the "inflated" set i made of Diaz is actually... exactly accurate regarding the rating of an "average" Side midfielder's Attack in the Mexican league.

This is all a consequence of failing to rate 'bad' players accurately. And to be clear, i don't entirely blame fringe league mods on this either; it is a strange but true thing that actually rating bad players is quite hard. One has to know the difference between bad players to the global world's bests in a precise way. It is normal and almost inevitable that over time, gradual, almost imperceptible inflation occurs.

But now with overall ratings, lower tier league mods now have a tool with which to check if the sets they are making are suffering from these gradual inflations.

Gradually inflated lower tier sets has become such a huge problem in our database that even some global moderators are now proposing "Stat Caps", which are limits on how a player can be rated in each individual attribute according to what league they play in.

This would mean that there would be some ruling after which players like diaz CANNOT be rated higher than say 86 in DA, or they cannot be above 85 in DS, 83 in lpa, 82 in attack, etc, limits on individual stats based on the level of their league. I am strongly against this. We know there are unique players that exist in even the worst leagues that happen to have some world class abilities- but they also have major flaws that explain why they can't succeed in better leagues. We can think of Cuahtemoc Blanco, who was world class in his dribbling and technique, we can look at Lliuya who truly is one of the best close control dribblers in the world at this moment, despite being a very mediocre player due to other significant weaknesses in his skillset. Overall ratings will show that as a whole, Lliuya and Blanco are still below the best players in the best leagues, while still giving mods the freedom to rightfully give them high yellow or even orange stats in particular areas.

Individual Stat Caps also fail to be able to keep track of too many mildly overrated stats just below whatever cap for in individual stats. Individual Stats Caps cannot meaningfully, nor elegantly measure the key differences we want to be apparent between leagues.

The overall ratings instead gives mods a way to avoid super draconian limitations on what mods can do at lower level leagues. Using the Overall ratings as a rough guideline allows mods to rate players for their unique abilities, and gives mods the freedom to even give the rare deserving player some specific world class abilities. This works because the Overall ratings looks at the total value of a set, not just individual stats. Therefore the Overall Ratings is even more effective at catching inflated sets than individual stat limits ever could, and all in a much more natural, more reasonable way. Most importantly, Overall Ratings leaves freedom to moderators to rate players, while giving mods a tool to keep track of the total consequence of their work.



Now below is my currently established Scale for the Overall ratings. The way the scale is finalized is entirely arbitrary, so it can change. My scale at the moment is based on the Fifa scale, but i've widened the scale to allow the absolute best players like messi and cristiano to have higher overalls, and also going the other way that the worst players have lower overalls.

Something to keep in mind is that i am also working on a seperate scale with smaller differences and slightly different standards.

Overall Rating Ladder
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Spoiler: show
99
98
97 SS Messi
96 SS Cristiano
95 CB Van Dijk
94
93
92 SS Neymar, WF Robben, SS Griezmann, AMF De Bruyne, AMF Isco
91 AMF Hazard, AMF Coutinho, CMF Saul, GK De Gea, GK Neuer.
90 CF Aguero, CMF Thiago, AMF David Silva, AMF Eriksen, CMF Modric, CB Kompany, CB J. M. Gimenez,
89 CF Lewandowski, CF Kane, SS Reus, WF Mane, WF Bale, SMF Douglas Costa, CMF Vidal, DMF Busquets, DMF Fernandinho, CB Godin, CB Hummels, CB Chiellini, GK Oblak,
88 CF Suarez, CF Cavani, CF Icardi, SS Salah, SS Mbappe, SS Insigne, AMF J. Rodriguez, AMF Luis Alberto, SMF Ribery, DMF Verratti, CB Barzagli, CB Naldo, CB Thiago Silva, GK Courtois,
87 SS Sterling, SS Firmino, AMF Bernardo Silva, AMF Juan Mata, AMF Alejandro Gomez, CMF Koke, SMF Mahrez, SMF Joaquin, SMF Cuadrado, CMF Pogba, CMF Milner, CMF Delaney, DMF Kante, DMF Javi Martinez, WB Jordi Alba, SB Azpilicueta, CB Sergio Ramos, CB Laporte, CB Vertonghen, CB Koulibaly, CB A. Romagnoli, CB Koscielny, GK Ter Stegen, GK Handanovic,
86 CF Aubameyang, SS T. Muller, SS Dybala, SS Iago Aspas, SS Benzema, SS Heung Min Son, WF Ousmane Dembele, WF Martial, WF F. Anderson, WF Suso, AMF S. Milinkovic-Savic, AMF Nasri, AMF Banega, AMF Willian, AMF Ignacio Piatti, AMF Pastore, SMF Callejon, SMF Payet, SMF Shaqiri, CMF Kroos, CMF Rakitic, CMF A. Herrera, CMF Brozovic, CMF Bonaventura, CMF Gundogan, DMF Partey, DMF N'Zonzi, DMF Jorginho, CB Skriniar, CB Winston Reid, GK Lloris, GK Rui Patricio, GK Ruffier,
85 CF Immobile, CF Quaglirarella, CF Lukaku, CF Aduriz, WF Thauvin, WF Di Maria, WF Marcus Rashford, WF D. Perotti, WF Marco Asensio, WF Lucas Moura, AMF G. Sigurdsson, AMF Lallana, AMF Mkhitaryan, SMF Lemar, SMF Carrasco, SMF Zhirkov, SMF Jesus Navas, CMF Fabregas, CMF Strootman, CMF Nainggolan, CMF Paulinho, CMF Rafinha, DMF Lucas Leiva, DMF Gonalons, DMF W. Carvalho, DMF Matic, DMF Casemiro, DMF L. Gustavo, DMF A. Witsel, DMF M'Vila, DMF Henderson, WB Marcelo, SB Kimmich, SB Carvajal, SB Filipe Luis, SB David Alaba, CB Bonucci, CB Raul Albiol, CB De Vrij, CB Alderweireld, CB Otamendi, CB Marquinhos, CB Pique, CB Pepe, GK Ederson, GK Alisson, GK Szczesny, GK Sirigu, GK A. Lopes,
84 CF Dzeko, CF Falcao, CF Lacazette, CF Chicharito, CF Mertens, SS Jonas, SS Schurrle, WF Goncalo Guedes, WF Leroy Sane, WF Ljajic, WF A. Katai, WF El Shaarawy, AMF N. Fekir, AMF Alex Teixeira, AMF Dusan Tadic, AMF B. Fernandes, AMF Grenier, SMF Sarabia, SMF Pereyra, SMF Susaeta, SMF Bernardeschi, SMF Chamberlain, SMF Nico Gaitan, CMF Arthur, CMF Borja Valero, CMF Granero, CMF Ramsey, CMF Tolisso, CMF Lobotka, CMF Draxler, CMF Rabiot, CMF M. Trigueros, CMF Andre Gomes, DMF Fernando, DMF Rodri, DMF Fabinho, DMF O. Romeu, DMF Pjanic, SB Andy Robertson, CB Niklas Sule, CB Jerome Boateng, CB B. Howedes, CB Acerbi, CB Kostas Manolas, CB Varane, CB Sokratis, CB D. Dakonam, CB Kamel Glik, CB Skrtel, CB Matthijs De Ligt CB Benatia, GK Keylor Navas, GK Pepe Reina,
83 CF Mandzukic, CF Vardy, CF Diego Costa, CF Higuain, CF Van Persie, CF Morata, CF Bacca, CF Belotti, CF Dzyuba, CF Rondon, SS Meier, SS Max Kruse, SS Ilicic, SS Munian, WF Gervinho, WF N. Pepe, WF Brahimi, WF Zaha, WF Grosicki, AMF E. Forsberg, AMF Canales, AMF Remy Cabella, SMF Pedro, SMF Bernard, SMF Vitolo, SMF Castillejo, CMF Roque Mesa, CMF Fabian Ruiz, CMF Allan, CMF Kevin Kampl, CMF Wijnaldum, CMF Davy Klaassen, CMF Lars Bender, CMF Kondogbia, CMF Khedira, CMF Joe Allen, CMF Adrien Silva, CMF Loftus-Cheek, CMF C. Soler, CMF Pedro Obiang, CMF Emre Can, CMF Moutinho, CMF Bentancur, CMF Etxebarria, DMF De Rossi, DMF Fejsa, DMF Javi Garcia, DMF Krychowiak, DMF N. Sahin, DMF McCarthy, DMF J. Weigl, DMF Milivojevic, SB Nacho Monreal, SB Kyle Walker, SB T. Meunier, SB Florenzi, CB Umtiti, CB Miranda, CB Stefan Savic, CB Hector Moreno, CB Inigo Martinez, CB Joel Matip, CB Michael Keane, CB Harry Maguire, CB Mamadou Sakho, CB Rudiger, CB Rhodolfo, CB W. Kannemann, CB Milenkovic, CB Kevin Vogt, CB Toprak, CB Badstuber, GK R. Fahrmann,GK Ospina, GK G. Donnarumma, GK Viviano,GK Sorrentino, GK Rene Adler, GK Bernd Leno, GK Butland, GK S. Asenjo, GK Buffon,
82 CF Piatek, CF Giroud, CF Sturridge, CF Bas Dost, CF Milik, CF Pizarro, CF Doumbia, CF Yilmaz, CF Gameiro, CF Kalinic, SS Rodrigo, SS Luis Muriel, SS Tevez, SS Volland, SS Kramaric, SS Raffael, WF Nolito, WF Richarlison, WF A. Townsend, WF Boufal, WF J. Corona, AMF Ozil, AMF Dele Alli, AMF Ganso, AMF Luan, AMF Lanzini, AMF Pizzi, SMF Valbuena, SMF Feghouli, SMF Kingsley Coman, SMF Ibai Gomez, SMF Perisic, SMF Kostic, SMF Quaresma, SMF Candreva, SMF Politano, SMF Robbie Brady, CMF Joao Mario, CMF Krohn-Dehli, CMF Wilshere, CMF Hector Herrera, CMF Matuidi, CMF Ross Barkley, CMF C. Aranguiz, CMF Frenkie De Jong, CMF Zielinski, CMF Illarramendi, CMF Defour, CMF Goretzka, CMF Delph, CMF A. Guardado, CMF Benassi, DMF Ralf, DMF Javi Fuego, DMF C. Kramer, DMF Badelj, DMF Lucas Torreira, DMF Schneiderlin, DMF Ivan Marcone, WB R. Guerreiro, WB Joao Cancelo, SB Tagliafico, SB S. Aurier, SB L. Baines, SB Debuchy, SB T. Alexander-Arnold, SB Alex Sandro, CB Akanji, CB Jardel, CB Tarkowski, CB A. Williams, CB Chris Smalling, CB Wes Morgan, CB James Tomkins, CB R. Shawcross, CB Mile Jedinak, CB Ogbonna, CB Lucas Hernandez, CB Vermaelen, CB Bartra, CB Zouhair Feddal, CB Adil Rami, CB E. Garay, CB D. Carrico, CB Simon Kjaer, CB Ivan Marcano, CB Loic Perrin, GK Ochoa, GK K. Schmeichel, GK Pickford, GK Mattia Perin, GK Ulreich, GK Trapp, GK Cassio, GK Neto, GK Miguel Moya,
81 CF Andy Caroll, CF Callum Wilson, CF Lucas Pratto, CF Balotelli, CF Huntelaar, CF Vagner Love, CF Timo Werner, CF Paco Alcacer, CF Lautaro Martinez, CF Bakambu, CF Gerard Moreno, CF C. Stuani, SS Gnabry, SS Ruben Castro, SS N. Sansone, SS Okazaki, SS Diego Tardelli, SS Angel Correa, WF Joshua King, WF Leon Bailey, WF Inaki Williams, WF Julian Brandt, WF Amin Younes, WF Gelson, AMF Lamela, AMF T. Hazard, AMF Bryan Ruiz, AMF K. Fortounis, AMF Khazri, AMF F. Vazquez, AMF Quintero, SMF Raul Garcia, SMF Marcos Alonso, SMF Cheryshev, SMF Pione Sisto, SMF M. Antonio, SMF Victor Moses, SMF Aleix Vidal, SMF Albrighton, SMF Cristian Tello, SMF Arda Turan, CMF Dani Parejo, CMF Dani Ceballos, CMF Mario Suarez, CMF Kovacic, CMF Lo Celso, CMF L. Pellegrini, CMF Van de Beek, CMF J. M. Seri, CMF Shelvey, CMF Doucoure, CMF Ndombele, CMF Aaron Mooy, CMF Hojbjerg, DMF Lustenberger, DMF Danilo Periera, DMF Eric Dier, DMF Wanyama, DMF Iturraspe, DMF Kranevitter, DMF Coquelin, DMF Scott Brown, SB Zabaleta, SB Ryan Bertrand, SB N. Clyne, SB R. Rodriguez, SB Ismaily, SB Maxi Periera, SB Alex Telles, SB Mario Gaspar, SB K. Asamoah, SB S. Vrsaljko, SB Lucas Digne, CB C. Lenglet, CB Nacho Fernandez, CB Gary Cahill, CB Dejan Lovern, CB Phil Jones, CB Eric Bailly, CB A. Christensen, CB Kurt Zouma, CB Yerry Mina, CB Jonny Evans, CB Boly, CB Vestergaard, CB Yoshida, CB Nastasic, CB Sven Bender, CB Ruben Dias, CB Felipe, CB Danilo L., CB Semih Kaya, CB Gonzalo Rodriguez, GK Iker Casillas, GK Y. Sommer, GK Alphonse Areola, GK K. Arrizabalaga, GK Fabianski, GK V. Guaita, GK Michel Vorm, GK C. Bravo, GK Pavlenka, GK Cillessen, GK Armani,
80 CF Mario Gomez, CF Raul Jimenez, CF Cenk Tosun, CF Duvan Zapata, CF Ben Yedder, CF Arnautovic, CF G. Jesus, CF Zaza, SS Lucas Perez, SS Jay Rodriguez, SS Jefferson Farfan, SS Juanmi, SS Mauro Zarate, SS Memphis, SS Choupo-Moting, SS Jordan Ayew, SS Palaciao, SS Iago Falque, WF Chukwueze, WF Adam Ounas, WF Orellana, AMF Lingard, AMF Ben Arfa, AMF Marko Marin, AMF Zaniolo, AMF Paqueta, SMF Bellarabi, SMF James Maddison, SMF Senad Lulic, SMF Laxalt, SMF McGeady, SMF Lazar Markovic, SMF Acuna, CMF Paredes, CMF Marcelo Diaz, CMF Davy Propper, CMF Eggestein, CMF Kessie, CMF Vecino, CMF Gago, CMF Sergi Darder, CMF Bentaleb, CMF Iborra, CMF Mikel Rico, CMF Drinkwater, CMF Jeff Hendrick, CMF Renato Sanches, DMF M. Llorente, DMF Medel, DMF Ndidi, DMF Elneny, DMF Ole Selnaes, SB Marcos Rojo, SB Criscito, SB Ivanovic, SB Juanfran, SB A. Cresswell, SB Kolarov, SB Ghoulam, SB D'ambrosio, SB Benjamin Mendy, SB Djibril Sidibe, SB S. Roberto, SB N. Semedo, SB S. Coleman, SB Lichtsteiner, SB Fuchs, CB Fazio, CB Musacchio, CB Cristian Zapata, CB Rugani, CB Stambouli, CB Dainelli, CB Pezzella, CB Civelli Renato, CB Roncaglia, CB Charlie Mulgrew, CB Hinteregger, CB Eder Militao, CB Marcelo Guedes, CB Jemerson, GK Akinfeev, GK Mandanda, GK Subasic, GK W. Caballero, GK Mignolet, GK Dubravka, GK Vermeer, GK Zoet, GK Diego Lopez, GK R. Jiminez, GK Campana, GK Barovero, GK Marcelo Grohe, GK Kameni,
79 CF Mitrovic, CF Ulloa, CF Seferovic, CF Willian Jose, CF G. Barbosa, CF Fred, CF Hernan Barcos, CF L. Damiao, CF M. Dembele, CF Lisandro Lopez, SS Hirving Lozano, SS Jose Morales, SS Yarmolenko, WF Cengiz Under, WF Saint-Maxmin, WF Lucas Vazquez, WF Malcom, WF Walcott, WF Raphinha, AMF H. Ziyech, AMF Almiron, AMF Pozuelo, SMF Jadon Sancho, SMF A. Lennon, SMF Pedro Leon, SMF P. Piatti, SMF Spinazzola, SMF Snodgrass, SMF Kenedy, SMF Takashi Inui, CMF Idrissa Gueye, CMF Naby Keita, CMF Aouar, CMF Ruben Pardo, CMF Lemina, CMF Gagliardini, CMF J. Morrison, CMF Ward-Prowse, CMF Will Hughes, CMF J. McArthur, DMF M. San Jose, DMF Biglia, DMF Bakayoko, DMF Dani Garcia, DMF Mikel Merino, DMF Marc Roca, DMF Montolivo, DMF Harry Winks, CMF Fellaini, DMF A. Diawara, DMF Xhaka, DMF Ruben Neves, DMF Valdifiori, SB Srna, SB Dani Alves, SB Tomovic, SB Luke Shaw, SB Grimaldo, SB Jantschke, SB Hugo Mallo, SB Joel Ward, SB Van Aanholt, SB Dalbert, SB Elseid Hysaj, SB Pasqual, SB Mario Rui, SB Phillip Max, SB Danny Rose, SB K. Trippier, SB Bellerin, SB Ashley Young, SB Andrea Conti, CB Palomino, CB Vlad Chiriches, CB Rafael Toloi, CB Sergi Gomez, CB Marc Valiente, CB Jonathan Tah, CB Zagadou, CB Serder Aziz, CB Lindelof, CB D. Sanchez, CB Jagielka, CB Craig Dawson, CB Ben Gibson, CB Ciaran Clark, CB Joe Gomez, CB H. Campagnaro, CB J. Mathieu, CB Milunovic, CB R. Funes Mori, CB Ivan Furios, GK R. Burki, GK Strakosha, GK Nick Pope, GK Matthew Ryan, GK Forster, GK Alex McCarthy, GK John Ruddy, GK Sergio Rico, GK Loris Karius,
78 CF Moise Kean, CF Felipe Caicedo, CF G. Simeone, CF Mariano Diaz, CF Origi, CF Slimani, CF M. Marega, CF Kalou, CF Soldado, CF S. Araujo, SS Giovinco, SS Takashi Usami, SS Hal Robson-Kanu, SS Ayoze Perez, WF C. Pavon, SMF Salvio, SMF Lazzari, CMF James McClean, CMF M. Sissoko, CMF Dahoud, CMF Selcuk Inan, CMF Mark Noble, CMF Livermore, CMF Cleverley, CMF Fossum, CMF Max Meyer, CMF Exequiel Palacio, DMF Vainqueur, DMF Ascacibar, DMF Jack Cork, DMF Dedoncker, WB Kolasinac, WB Doherty, SB Kenny Tete, SB Wan-Bissaka, SB Schmelzer, SB Abate, SB Del Grosso, SB Jonny Otto, SB Juan Bernat, SB F. Mendy, CB Mustafi, CB Coady, CB Ben Mee, CB Subotic, CB P. Kimpembe, CB M. Bodmer, CB Andrea Raggi, CB Bonera, CB Unai Nunez, CB Hasebe, GK Zivkovic, GK Irazioz, GK Onana, GK David Soria, GK Kiko Casilla, GK Alex Meret, GK Robin Olsen, GK Boaz Myhill,
77 CF Charlie Austin, CF Mitroglou, CF Okaka, CF Santander, CF Maxi Gomez, SS Jese, SS Nathon Redmond, SS Wu Lei, WF Vincius Junior, WF Adama Traore, WF D. Neres, WF Hudson-Odoi, AMF Joao Felix, AMF Halilovic, SMF Pulisic, SMF Nathan Dyer, SMF Jefferson Montero, SMF Rachid Ghezzal, CMF Enzo Perez, CMF Guendouzi, CMF Fred, CMF Oliver Torres, CMF Nikola Moro, CMF Jordy Clasie, CMF C. Kouyate, DMF Declan Rice, DMF A. Westwood, DMF Arambarri, DMF Pere Pons, DMF Felix Kroos, DMF Cigarini, WB Danilo, SB Samir, SB Maksimovic, SB Darmian, SB Jedvaj, SB Damian Suarez, SB Fosu-Mensah, SB D. Simpson, SB P. Bardsley, SB De Sciglio, SB Odriozola, SB Kurzawa, CB Vallejo, CB John Stones, CB Alan Franco, CB L. Quarta, CB Dante, CB Mangala, CB Diakhaby, CB Djetei, CB Aissa Mandi, CB Le Marchand, GK Oier Olazabal, GK Joel Robles, GK Jonas Lossl, GK Andrei Radu, GK Z. Popovic,
76 CF F. Llorente, CF Troy Deeney, CF Schick, CF Wilfried Bony, CF Crouch, CF Benteke, CF Chris Wood, SS K.P. Boateng, SS Sergio Garcia, WF R. Miyaichi, AMF Amine Harit, SMF Demarai Grey, SMF Alvaro Garcia, CMF I. Fernandez, CMF McGregor, CMF Tielemans, CMF F. Valverde, CMF Tom Carroll, CMF Tom Davies, CMF Mohamed Diame, DMF Ademi, DMF G. Whelan, DMF Chalobah, SB Patric, SB A. Valencia, SB Zappacosta, CB Ranocchia, CB Daley Blind, CB Veltman, CB Malang Sarr, CB E. Balanta, GK Alex Smithies, GK Chichizola, GK G. Rulli, GK Antonio Adan,
75 CF Andre Gray, SS Pandev, SS Bojan, SMF F. Anglieri, SMF Amath, SMF S. Armstrong, CMF Gaiku Shibasaki, DMF Miguel Veloso, DMF D. Amartey, DMF Ryan Donk, DMF C. Sanchez, SB Ben Davies, CB Miguel Britos, CB Juan Jesus, CB Abdennour, GK Sergio Alvarez, GK Aitor Fernandez, GK J. Posavec,
74 CF Alfredo Morales, WF J. Kluivert, WF Iturbe, SMF Paddy McCourt, SMF Antony, SMF Fetfatzidis, SMF Ritsu Doan, SMF Christian Atsu, CMF McTominay, DMF C. Chambers, DMF Flamini, SB Javi Lopez, CB Muniesa, CB Magallan, CB A. Ferrari, CB Caceres, GK Axel Werner, GK Baptiste Reynet, GK Rais M'Bolhi,
73 CF Shane Long, CMF Harry Arter, CMF Zelalem, DMF Xavi Torres, DMF C. Doukoure, DMF S. Tonali, SB Saul Garcia, CB Jack Stephens, CB Mavinga, GK Ruben Blanco,
72 SS Saido Berahino, SS Mason Greenwood, CMF Guelor Kanga, GK Ruben Yanez, GK Alex Bono,
71 SS Takuma Asano, SMF Tsubasa Endoh, CB David Costas, CB Jorge Figal,
70 WF Emre Mor,
69 SB David Hancko,
68 DMF Oriol Busquets,
67
66 CF Akinfenwa,
65
64
63
62
61
60

59 and under Amateurs



Something to point out here is that this ladder is based on sets as they were on the database as of two or three weeks ago. Since then, alot of sets have been minorly, or MAJORLY updated, so actually there's a handful of OVR ratings in the ladder above that are no longer relevant- not many, but some that explain some possibly odd OVR ratings.

Take the case of Juan Mata as he was rated prior to a general downgrade i gave him about a week and a half ago. Mata back then had an OVR rating of 87; this is a really really good OVR rating. Once upon a time, Mata certainly should've deserved such an OVR rating since he was arguably the absolute best AMF in the league 6 years ago. But Mata has gradually declined until now where he is noticeably below the level he used to hold. Mata's 87 OVR rating puts him beside Firmino, Bernardo Silva, Azpilicueta, Alejandro Gomez, Koke, Ramos, Koulibaly, Alba, Ter Stegen. I think we can all say that this is a caliber of players that Mata can no longer match up against.

But remember! This OVR rating was a reflection of the set Mata had at that time, and what did that set look like?

It was like this:

Attack: 85
Defence: 46
Balance: 75
Stamina: 81
Top Speed: 74
Acceleration: 81
Response: 76
Agility: 83
Dribble Accuracy: 88
Dribble Speed: 70
Short Pass Accuracy: 91
Short Pass Speed: 81
Long Pass Accuracy: 86
Long Pass Speed: 78
Shot Accuracy: 83
Shot Power: 78
Shot Technique: 83
Free Kick Accuracy: 90
Curling: 88
Header: 66
Jump: 70
Technique: 94
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 76
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 91

Condition/Fitness: 4
Weak Foot Accuracy: 3
Weak Foot Frequency: 2


Overall Rating: 87


This is a very high powered set. It's a much better passer than bernardo silva, a better shooter, a clearly better passer, with better attack, similar physical qualities other than dribble speed, with much better team work. There is a balance between the two sets that presents similar overall level attacking midfielders- Bernardo having his clear, key trait superiorities, but Mata actually having many of his own superiorities.

With an OVR rating of 87, Mata is rated as one of the top ten players in a Tier 1 league. Once this was definitely true- around 2013 Mata was fairly considered possibly the best AMF in the premier league after all. But 6 years have passed, and Mata has had inconsistent play time, and suffered for it. His level is noticeably lower than the times where he was creating 40-45 goals and assists per season at Chelsea.
Mata shows glimpses of his old level, but less and less. Just by skimming the comments in Mata's thread and finding some general consensus there about things that need to be downgraded, and acting on impressions that i've also personally held for a long time, i arrived at this "general" update- an update used to downgrade a set in a way that is logical, and based on natural career decline, while not using the typical detailed studying that mods have become known for at psd.

The general downgrade set looks like this:

Attack: 82
Defence: 39
Balance: 68
Stamina: 78
Top Speed: 70
Acceleration: 76
Response: 76
Agility: 80
Dribble Accuracy: 88
Dribble Speed: 70
Short Pass Accuracy: 89
Short Pass Speed: 81
Long Pass Accuracy: 84
Long Pass Speed: 78
Shot Accuracy: 83
Shot Power: 78
Shot Technique: 83
Free Kick Accuracy: 90
Curling: 88
Header: 62
Jump: 70
Technique: 94
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 76
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 91

Condition/Fitness: 4
Weak Foot Accuracy: 3
Weak Foot Frequency: 2


Overall Rating: 84


So Mata is becoming less and less effective because of his tendency to be muscled out of matches- he lacks the ability to hold his ground, and now that he's not a zippy player that can drive the ball forward meaningfully, he's lost a crucial dimension to his playing style that gave him some needed versatility. In his key stats, Mata is still outstanding, but just minorly less effective than before. He's lost some decisive attacking ability, but kept his shooting ability, and his tactical mastery of the game.

I based this update on sporadic impressions over the last 4 years, but also by confirming them through seeing similar sentiments being repeatedly expressed in his thread. This was likely an update that in some areas was already deserved 2 years ago, but we erred on generosity and let the set languish.

A similar situation occured with Robin pan persie's set following his move to Fenerbahce.

Rvp was dissapointing, i recall he could only manage about 11 league goals a season in Turkey, a tier 3ish level league. Yet, Van persie had this set for the last 4 years:

Attack: 91
Defence: 35
Balance: 82
Stamina: 79
Top Speed: 82
Acceleration: 78
Response: 84
Agility: 77
Dribble Accuracy: 87
Dribble Speed: 78
Short Pass Accuracy: 85
Short Pass Speed: 85
Long Pass Accuracy: 86
Long Pass Speed: 89
Shot Accuracy: 91
Shot Power: 89
Shot Technique: 93
Free Kick Accuracy: 81
Curling: 90
Header: 75
Jump: 74
Technique: 95
Aggression: 90
Mentality: 75
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 84

Condition/Fitness: 6
Weak Foot Accuracy: 6
Weak Foot Frequency: 5


Overall Rating: 89


Clearly that set above describes one of the absolute best strikers in the world, NOT someone who can only score 11 goals a season for 3 seasons in Turkey! And an overall rating of 89 would put that 34 year old Van persie struggling to get even 15 goals in the turkish league on par with present day Centre Forwards such as Lewandoski, and Harry Kane, and the general level of today's Sadio Mane, Marcos Reus, Fernandinho, Sergio Busquets, Chiellini, Hummels, and Jan Oblak. In the past Van persie certainly had such a level, but it's been likely no less than 5 years since he was at that level? So here we can again use overall ratings as a reference with which to see the total capability of a set, and how that rating matches our perception.

This Van persie set was used as an example of worldclass players being allowed to remain on too high of a rating for too long. The subsequent "general" downgrade resulted in this set for Van persie:

Attack: 86
Defence: 35
Balance: 82
Stamina: 71
Top Speed: 77
Acceleration: 71
Response: 78
Agility: 71
Dribble Accuracy: 87
Dribble Speed: 74
Short Pass Accuracy: 83
Short Pass Speed: 84
Long Pass Accuracy: 84
Long Pass Speed: 89
Shot Accuracy: 86
Shot Power: 90
Shot Technique: 90
Free Kick Accuracy: 80
Curling: 86
Header: 81
Jump: 77
Technique: 91
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 67
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 78

Condition/Fitness: 3
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6


Overall Rating: 83


As jurgens demonstrated with this example, this general downgrade results in a set that can be clearly identified as Robin van persie, yet it also logically and reasonably downgrades a player in ways that reflect the level of prowess Van persie was objectively showing in Turkey. And after this downgrade, the overall rating of 83 indicates a europa league level striker, or, a mid table challenging for top 6 in a tier 1 league level striker. This is much close to what Van persie is like today.


One of the biggest reasons sets that are seen as questionable or possible outdated is that there somtimes isn't enough footage for mods to be able to confirm or deny the accuracy of a set. This leads to mods preferring to err on the side of caution.

But in tandem with this general nature, sets of players of fringe leagues tend to be uncorrected once again because of lack of meaningful footage with which a mod can study said player.

Using this overall system, we can now much better monitor whether there are suspicious trends in particular leagues such as: a skewed distribution of "good" players in an only mediocre level league, or perhaps simply too few "bad" players, and we can immediately identify outlier level players in lower level leagues.

Because the Overall Ratng ladder i want to establish should be globally referrable, then if we see a player in the Lithuanian league who no one has ever heard of who has an Overall rating of 85, then we can use the ladder and understand that this means the set of the player is equal to an elite level player in one of the Tier 1 leagues, the best leagues in the world. This is clearly a red flag, and it can now be much more easily spotted by measuring a collective worth rather than interpreting individual stats.

Some of the OVR ratings in my current ladder might seem odd; surely at least a few ratings are odd because of problems with my formula in its current iteration- i consider the formula to be very accurate, but certainly not perfect. But in many cases, as my formulas become more and more accurate, odd ratings don't indicate problems with the formulas, but instead, problems WITH THE SETS.

Take for example the 86 OVR rating of Stefan Ruffier. He has one of the 10 highest overall ratings in the world, but he is no longer at that level. A few years ago Ruffier was quite outstanding, but he has declined noticeably since then. And what do we find if we check his set? It is the same set he earned from his prime 6 years ago, nearly untouched since then!

So if the OVR rating formula is generally accurate, anomalies tend to indicate set inaccuracy rather than formula problems. We can see then how much easier it is to spot strangely placed sets within an Overall Rating Ladder.

This way of analyzing plays on a macro scale can also make the establishment of different tiers of leagues, or, SUBSTANTIAL differences between leagues that we can all agree are at a different level, such as the Spanish La Lga versus the Bundesliga, or the Bundesliga versus the Norweigen League and so on.


So, using the principles of standard distribution, i have imagined the way the leagues should differ to each other according to the distribution of Overall ratings in each league:

Image

So this graph above is not a precise measurement, but i know enough now to be able to give a good eyeball estimate. Here we can see the way the different average Overall Ratings will show up between leagues, using the simple principles of standard distribution and standard deviations.

For those unfamiliar with standard deviations:
Image
this shows how distribution of talent or prowess tends to be expressed in a sufficient population of any particular population.

There is 500 total registered players in most leagues, this means that about 300-330 players will be 1 standard deviation from the average rating in either direction; here i just eyeball that one deviation should be about 3 Overall points, so this means that there are about 330 players between 83-77 Overall Rating in a league with an average Overall rating of 80.
But actually that's a bit inaccurate, because at the highest level, the distribution is no longer standard- there are less and less to tier talent, and slightly more lower tier talent. So i took a standard deviation and just eyeball skewed it closer to what it should be below:

Image

So based on this, with a total of about 500 players in a typical 20 team league, then for a Tier 1 league such as is shown above, there's something like 1.5% x 500 = 7-8 87+ OVR players, 3% x 500 = 15 or so 83 - 85 OVR players, 6% x 500 = 30 or so 83 - 85 OVR players, 12% x 500 = 50-60 80- 83 OVR players, 42% x 500 = 210 or so 76- 79 OVR players ETC ETC. It should be understandable that from the most common OVR ratings of around 79, super incredible players become rarer the better they are, and super terrible players become rarer the more terrible they are. And there is a skew towards more terrible players- players below the average are the most common, but there is a longer tail towards rare excellent players.

The above graphic is just an eyeball estimate that i edited really quickly and crudely- it does not represent precise figures, but instead the general figures.


These are the ways i think Overall ratings will have a tremendous value for helping with maintaing the standard of quality psd aims for even in the most obscure leagues.
perfect accuracy is impossible to maintain, but we can tremendously improve the general reliability of our sets, as well as significantly improve our abilities to monitor fringe outskirt players in lesser known leagues, and to keep track of outdated or over/under-rated sets.
If you don't put effort into your post, i won't put effort in my response.
Shevshe
Former Lurker
Posts: 1
Joined: 2015 Apr 02, 03:06
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Shevshe » 2019 May 19, 04:55

Hello Vinnie.
Excellent analysis.
When would we have this tremendous work that you did?
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 513 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Oriello » 2019 May 19, 21:36

Vinnie great work, I want to make love to you.

Where is the tool? It does not have to be perfect now, it can be amended in the future, but I think releasing even a "beta", and changing the weightings later if we find problems once we start using it would be best. Need to do some field testing, putting it to use in different leagues and see how useful it will be.

I too hope this tool finds its place, so that we can avoid hard caps for some stats.
User avatar
Vickingo
PSD Backbone
Posts: 16491
Joined: 2010 Jun 09, 02:18
Location: Argentina
Has thanked: 1752 times
Been thanked: 1339 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Vickingo » 2019 May 20, 15:47

I agree in everything vinnie posted in there, it's clearly a great addition and analysis and I fully agree with making that (even we're making it for 2 months?), I'd just say Argentinian and Brazilian league are not below average of Portuguese and Eredivisie (taking off Ajax). I'd mix all of them in OV like 75 tbh. Also I'd add MX to a point higher and I doubt if MLS is at the same level than Belgium and Football Championship or if it's better.
vinnie
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: 2012 Apr 06, 03:11
Location: ♛      
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2019 Jun 02, 21:21

So keeping in mind the index i referred to previously, and enclosed again below in a spoiler for easy reference, here is an OVR rating ladder of the peak forms of some of the best players and famous legends of football history.
Spoiler: show
99 Greatest of all time, so far only 3-5 players at this level in football history.
97 Top ten of all time.
95-96 Top 20 of all time.
93-94 One of the 3-5 best of a decade within a league.
90-92 World Class players, Top twenty players in the planet at any given season.
87-89 Elite player, One of the top ten players in one of the top leagues at any given season
84-86 Excellent player, the bottom half of the top twenty players in one of the top leagues at any given season.
80-83 Very Good players, the consistently starting players for mid table Europa spot challenging teams in a top level league.
77-79 Good players, the slightly above average player in one of the top leagues.
74-76 Decent players, the average player in one of the top leagues, who tends to start for teams just above the relegation level clubs.
71-73 Mediocre players, substitute level players for mid-table teams, starting players for relegation level teams in a top league.
68-70 Flawed players, players that have little capacity to play for any team within the very best leagues in any capacity whatsoever. Mostly starting players for tier 3 leagues.
66-67 Poor players, players that tend to play for the mid table teams of tier 3 leagues.
63-65 Weak players, substitute players for mid-table tier 3 league teams, starting players for tier 4 leagues.
60-62 Barely professional players, players that are hardly above the amateur level, starting players for tier 5 leagues, substitutes for tier 4

Below 59 Amateurs

57-59 Exceptional amateurs that were close to becoming professionals, possibly played in good professional tier 1/2 academies as youth, and regularly play and are highly influential at the entry level semi-professional leagues.
54-56 Good amateurs that are valuable but not stars at their semi-professional leagues
51-53 Decent Amateurs that more than pulls their own weight, but seldom more than that.
48-50 Average Amateur, a player that isn't coveted, but is not burdensome at the amateur level.
45-47 Flawed amateurs, players that are suspectible to errors due to tactical or physical, or technical weaknesses, but otherwise have serviceable qualities and are generally acceptable
41-44 Poor Amateurs, players that tend to be below par tactically, physically, or technically; these players are somewhat burdensome.

Below 40- Non-Regular Amatuers, players that are not in match condition and have sorely lacked football practice; they either seldom play, or have far less total experience playing football compared to someone who regularly played football all through their childhood. VERY FEW adult players should be at this level if they regularly play in Men's leagues.



Overall Rating Ladder - All Time
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
99 CF Ronaldo, SS Messi, SS Pele, SS Cruyff, AMF Maradona,
98 WF Cristiano,
97 CF Van Basten, SS Di Stefano, SS Ronaldinho, AMF Michael Laudrup, SWP Beckenbauer,
96 SS Platini, AMF Zidane, AMF Zico, CB Figueroa, CB Maldini, SWP Baresi,
95 CF Weah, CF Henry, SS Cantona, SS Stoichkov, WF Robben, AMF Hagi, CMF Xavi, CMF Falcao, DMF Rijkaard, CB Van Dijk, GK Schmeichel,
94 CF Romario, CF Gerd Muller, CF Law, CF Van Niselrooy, CF Falcao, SS Suarez, SS Totti, SS Baggio, SS Bergkamp, WF Garrincha, AMF Gullit, AMF Stojkovic, CMF Matthuas, DMF Keane, CB Kohler, CB Nesta, SWP Scriea, GK Kahn, GK Buffon,
93 CF Ibrahimovic, CF Batistuta, CF Shearer, CF Vieri, CF Shevchenko, CF Drogba, SS Raul, SS Rooney, SS Rivaldo, SS Zizinho, WF Littbarski, AMF Socrates, AMF Rivelino, AMF Iniesta, SMF Figo, CMF Schweinsteiger, CMF Veron, CMF Gerrard, CMF Van Hanegem, DMF Toninho, SB Carlos Alberto, SB Roberto Carlos, CB Bergomi, CB Cannavaro, CB Adams, CB Kompany, CB Desailly, SWP Passarella,
92 CF Adriano, CF Rush, CF Charles, CF Hugo Sanchez, CF Trezeguet, CF Eto'o, SS Neymar, SS Tostao, SS Del Piero, SS Brian Laudrup, SS Rummenigge, SS Francescoli, SS Aguero, SS Griezmann, WF Johnstone, WF Alexis, AMF Kaka, AMF Hazard, AMF Riquelme, AMF Susic, AMF Pires, AMF De Bruyne, AMF Isco, AMF Coutinho, SMF Ribery, SMF Giggs, CMF Deco, CMF Luis Enrique, DMF Leo Junior, DMF Redondo, DMF De Rossi, DMF Cambiasso, SB Dani Alves, CB Moore, CB Puyol, CB Stam, CB Godin, CB Vidic, CB Thiago Silva, CB Krol, SWP Popescu, SWP Hierro, SWP Picchi, GK Neuer, GK Pagliuca, GK Zoff,
91 CF Van Persie, CF Higuain, CF Crespo, CF Makaay, CF Torres, SS Tevez, SS Dalglish, SS Leonidas, SS Bebeto, SS Zola, WF Bale, WF Gento, AMF Nedved, AMF Hoddle, AMF Savicevic, AMF Litmanen, AMF Sneijder, AMF David Silva, AMF Cazorla, AMF Prosinecki, AMF Burruchaga, AMF Ballack, CMF Hamsik, CMF Robson, CMF Souness, CMF Scholes, CMF Yaya Toure, CMF Simeone, DMF Edgar Davids, WB Cafu, SB Fachetti, CB Terry, CB Ayala, CB Lucio, CB Ruggeri, CB Ferdinand, CB McGrath, CB Hansen, CB Sanchis, CB Chiellini, CB Vierchowod, GK Chilavert, GK Toldo, GK Zenga, GK De Gea,
90 CF David Villa, CF Berbatov, CF Lewandowski, CF Kane, CF Luca Toni, CF Klose, CF Kempes, CF Owen, SS Sivori, SS Le Tissier, WF Barnes, AMF Scholl, AMF Eriksen, AMF Lampard, AMF Rui Costa, AMF Gascoigne, AMF Cubillas, AMF Valeron, AMF Seedorf, SMF Di Maria, CMF Vieira, CMF Modric, CMF Schuster, CMF Essien, CMF Thiago Alcantara, CMF Fabregas, DMF Guardiola, DMF Xabi Alonso, DMF Emerson, SB Lahm, SB Thuram, SB Zanetti, SB Maicon, SB Zambrotta, CB Campbell, CB Hummels, CB Samuel, CB Bruce, CB Carvalho, SWP Tresor, SWP Bonucci, GK Van Der Sar, GK Casillas, GK Van Breukelen, GK Oblak,
89 CF Diego Milito, CF Kluivert, CF Icardi, CF Hasselbaink, CF Inzaghi, CF Dzeko, SS Magico Gonzalez, SS Cassano, SS Mertens, SS Giuseppe Rossi, SS Reus, WF Jaizinho, WF Conti, WF Overmars, WF Mane, WF Keizer, WF Waddle, AMF Aimar, AMF Bochini, AMF Cueto, AMF Juan Mata, AMF Hleb, SMF Beckham, SMF Camoranesi, SMF Douglas Costa, CMF Vidal, CMF Arteta, CMF Letchkov, CMF Ze Roberto, CMF Cocu, CMF Conte, CMF Baraja, CMF Frank De Boer, DMF Albertini, DMF Busquets, DMF Fernandinho, DMF Dunga, WB Marcelo, SB Nilton Santos, SB Jorginho, SB Ashley Cole, SB Alba, CB Butcher, CB Gentile, CB Perfumo, CB Costacurta, CB Barzagli, CB Benatia, CB Quincoces, SWP Koeman, GK Cech, GK Julio Cesar, GK Preud'homme, GK Handanovic, GK Courtois,
88 CF Morientes, CF Diego Costa, SS Ortega, SS Van Der Vaart, SS Benzema, SS Salah, SS Sterling, SS Pato, SS Mutu, SS Insigne, SS Miccoli, SS Thomas Muller, AMF James Rodriguez, AMF Guti, AMF Juninho, SMF Ljunberg, SMF Ginola, SMF Donadoni, SMF Cuadrado, CMF Koke, CMF Stankovic, CMF Rakitic, CMF Lucho Gonzalez, CMF Nainggolan, DMF Mascherano, DMF Javi Martinez, DMF N'Golo Kante, DMF Toulalan, DMF Marcos Senna, DMF Paulo Sousa, DMF Didi Hamann, SB Nilton Santos, SB Vogts, SB Schnellinger, SB Irwin, SB Barjuan, SB Candela, SB Kimmich, CB Sergio Ramos, CB Materazzi, CB Koulibaly, CB Romagnoli, CB Nadal, CB Couto, CB Ledley King, CB Gabriel Milito, CB Subotic, CB Cris, CB Miranda, CB Alderweireld, GK Maier, GK Peruzzi, GK Dida, GK Alisson, GK Seaman,
87 CF Negredo, CF Kirsten, CF Kanoute, CF Diego Tristan, SS Recoba, SS Arshavin, SS Pedro, SS Di Canio, SS Dybala, SS Heung-Min Son, SS Iago Aspas, WF Caniggia, WF Futre, WF Joaquin, WF Giuly, WF Kanchelski, AMF Ozil, AMF Alex, AMF Djalminha, AMF Payet, AMF Valdivia, AMF Valderrama, SMF Mendieta, SMF Simao, SMF Salihamidzic, CMF Park Ji-Sung, CMF Van Bommel, CMF Effenberg, CMF Gravesen, CMF Maniche, CMF Tigana, CMF Gabi, CMF Gundogan, DMF Mauro Silva, DMF Makelele, DMF Dino Baggio, DMF Clodoaldle, WB Cabrini, SB Azpilicueta, SB Baines, SB Sagnol, SB Alaba, SB Filipe Luis, CB Carragher, CB Pepe, CB Skriniar, CB Otamendi, CB Andersson, CB Howedes, CB Vertonghen, GK Lloris, GK Ter Stegen, GK Barthez, GK Canizares, GK Valdes, GK Rui Patricio, GK Frey, GK Ederson,
86 CF Linekar, CF Palermo, CF Luc Nilis, CF Quagliarella, CF Immobile, CF Chicharito, SS Robinho, SS Edmundo, SS Abedi Pele, WF Ben Arfa, WF Sane, AMF D'Alessandro, SMF Arda Turan, SMF Serginho, CMF Brozovic, CMF Strootman, CMF Hargreaves, CMF Kroos, CMF Barry, CMF Fletcher, DMF Gilberto, DMF Fabinho, DMF N'Zonzi, DMF Inler, DMF Batista, SB Michel Salgado, SB Juanfran, SB Lizarazu, SB Florenzi, SB Carvajal, SB Sansom, SB Robertson, SB Zabaleta, CB Mertesacker, CB Pique, GK Marquinhos, CB Kaladze, CB De Vrij, CB Manolas, GK Cordoba, GK Gilmar,
85 CF Balotelli, CF Bacca, CF Pauleta, CF Saviola, CF Lacazette, SS Zarate, SS Palaciao, SS Jovetic, SS Nene, WF Rashford, WF Asensio, AMF Okocha, AMF Yalcin, AMF Kinkladze, AMF Ganso, SMF Joe Cole, SMF Balszczykowski, SMF Ousmane Dembele, SMF Maxi Rodriguez, SMF Vargas, CMF Henderson, CMF Moussa Dembele, CMF Pjanic, CMF Thiago Motta, DMF Ambrosini, DMF Casemiro, DMF Lambert, CMF Nicky Butt, SB Gary Nevillie, SB Alexander-Arnold, SB Lichsteiner, SB Kyle Walker, SB Alex Sandro, CB Jerome Boateng, CB Sule, CB Varane, CB Rafa Marquez, CB Mexes, CB Jagielka, CB Pallister, CB Glik, GK Keylor Navas, GK Taffarel, GK Reina, GK Caballero, GK Friedel, GK Szczesny,
84 CF Koller, CF Di Vaio, CF Giroud, CF Phillips, CF Vardy, CF Gignac, SS Podolski, SS Pandev, WF Denilson, SS Munian, WF Perotti, AMF Nakamura, SMF Di Livio, SMF Reyes, CMF Montolivo, CMF Redknapp, DMF Gattuso, DMF Krychowiak, SB Monreal, SB Bellerin, SB Kolarov, CB Van Buyten, CB Lugano, CB Matip, CB Cahill, CB Helguera, GK Asenjo, GK Donnarumma, GK Dudek, GK Enke,
83 CF Maxi Lopez, SS Juan Manuel Martinez, SMF Malouda, CMF Matuidi, CMF Tiago, SB Abidal, SB Sergi Roberto, SB Riise, SB Agathe, SB Benjamin Mendy, CB Smalling, CB Burdisso, CB Dunne, CB Kolodin, CB Kuffour, GK Ochoa, GK Kasper Schmeichel, GK Kiraly,
82 CF Guiza, CF Van Hooijdonk, WF Bryan Ruiz, SMF Solari, SMF Aaron Lennon, SMF Gustavo Lopez, SMF Altintop, CMF Mario Suarez, CMF Illaramendi, CMF De La Red, SB Trippier, SB Micah Richards, SB Clichy, SB Rafinha, SB Semedo, CB Lescott, CB Alex, GK Fabianski, GK Guaita,
81 CF Borriello, CMF Sulley Muntari, CMF Drinkwater, CMF Gago, SB Marcos Rojo, CB Kolo Toure, CB Silvestre, GK Romero,
80 SMF Raul Garcia, CMF Moussa Sissoko, CB O'Shea, CB Bonera,
79
78
77
76
75
74
73
72
71
70
69
68
67
66
65
64
63
62
61
60

59 and under

So this is a look at famous players in history. I hope this can give the wider frame of reference behind the value or significance of the ratings above 95 like how i tried to explain previously.

there are only eleven 97 plus OVR players in History, and this is considering the highest peak level of these players. This is very close to my stated estimate about the value of being 97 OVR or higher- which i thought should be close to be being top ten of all time in terms of rareness.

Then you can see how the 95 rated players tended to be generation defining players, usually amongst the top 3 players of a decade. They were oftentimes the best players of the world, but then as tends to happen, every 15-20 years comes along those truly standout outlier talents who change the game in their own way after their arrival.

93 rated players start to head towards players that are in a group of players that challenge to be the best and often are the best for pockets of time, but are often just short of being the top dogs. They might achieve tremendous things in their careers, but are generally agreed as having a noticeably -if only slightly- lower level than the aforementioned 95 OVR players.

And so on and so forth following the logic that i detailed previously.

One can notice in the mid eighties OVR segment some exceptionally talented players, but here are those players that had holes in their skillset. Their extremely obvious, and often world leading specific talents tended to earn these players superstar branding early on in their career- or a kind of devoted following of fans. But their careers were subsequently seen as underachieving or disappointing. Collected among them are the likes of Okocha, Balotelli, Zarate, Kinkladze, Edmundo, Denilson, Futre, Djalminha, Robinho etc.

These kinds of players seemed so gifted that it was harder for them to fail than to become generationally defining players. And yet fail they did, as, for one reason or another these players never rounded or completed their skillset in ways that allowed them to continually supercede the attempts to stifle them by opponents.

On the other hand there are players with equal OVR ratings as these super talents, but who by consensus were far far less talented. Take the much hailed super talent Robinho, who is surpassed in OVR by the likes of Iago Aspas, Giuly, or Pedro- players who did not have Robinho's dribbling talents, but through superiorities in areas like workrate, decisiveness in breaking the defensive lines, superior usage of possession, and finishing ultimately made similar or even higher consistent outputs in terms of danger than Robinho. Subsequently, we can see their likes achieving more than Robinho within their own careers.

Two players sharing a common position can have an equal OVR rating but completely different skillsets and styles. We can see this acutely with Nedved having a common OVR rating of 91 shared with the likes of Savicevic, David Silva, Hoddle- some technical masters at the foot of the peak of footballing skill on the same tier as a workhorse warrior as Nedved. I presume that it's fair to consider this is an assembly of players all roughly equal in greatness- each of them great in their own manner and style.


Some of you glancing at this list might have a difference with the way i regard some certain positions. I've had some fairly long running debates now with several other contributors to this project about the way the positions should be harmonized together. Some propose that each position take up full utilization of the 1-99 scale.The way i''ve decided to harmonize the positions together is by looking at objective worth. My understanding is this: some positions by definition of their position, have less potential to dominate and influence a match. Therefore say a SMF is defacto a player that tends to be less decisive than a WF; just as a SB tends less decisive than a SMF. We do see after all, the all too common conversion- successfully- of underperforming wingers into remarkable or stand out fullbacks, and yet practically never the successful conversion of underperforming fullbacks into stand out wingers. Jamie Carragher famously remarked that a fullback seemed to him to be, "either a failed winger or a failed centreback." Harsh a comment as that is, i see truth here.

And yet, I still fully accept that some fullbacks really do become absolute phenomenons of players who even might arguably be one of the best or the best players in the world. Such a thing happened with Dani alves in his late Sevilla-to-early Barcelona phase of his career. It was arguably true as well for players like Carlos Alberto, Fachetti, Roberto Carlos, or Maldini. These players took the specific responsibilities of their roles, and expanded their influence in incredible ways through master of both tactical, and physical qualities, but also crucially through the competency of these players in their technique.

Now i determined where the scale of SBs should be by looking at some of the suggest best fullbacks, such as Carlos Alberto, and Roberto Carlos, Fachetti, and trying to look at players of other positions and asking myself: "who are these fullbacks better than, more valuable than, amongst the other positions?" What i found is that if i was asked to say peak Roberto Carlos is as good as peak Thierry Henry, or Xavi, or Robben, then i have a very hard time finding this to be credible. But then i found that if i was asked to say peak Roberto Carlos is as good as Batistuta, Ibrahimovic, Iniesta; is peak Roberto Carlos better.. more valuable, than peak Eto'o? Cambiasso? Vidic? Well in this range, such a statement seems more plausible. Such a statement is not something i am even totally convinced in, but since i am being encouraged to give more esteem to SBs, well then i can see this range of OVR rating as becoming more and more plausible.

And keep in mind, i am not limiting how good SBs can be. I am only reflecting that when i look at the calibre of players i expect out of OVR players irrespective of their position, then i just don't think there's EVER YET been a fullback that has been as good as the aforementioned players above 93 OVR.

I used this logic to decide the top end scaling of all the different positions. I would ask for example, "Was Schmeichel a better, more valuable player than Cantona, period?" To that question i mostly think no, yet i can pluasibly say they were close to equal in value, so i have placed Schmeichel, arguably the best goalkeeper ever, at the same OVR as Cantona at 95. The ladder for GKs therefore follows that top end placing. And so on and so forth for other positions.

There is no restriction on any of the positions, i merely placed the top end of the exisiting scale of players in one position sometimes slightly lower or higher than in other positions.

To show how there is no real limit to SB ratings, here's what i've tested in my SB Overall formula what a 98 OVR player should look like.


Let's call this hypothetical fullback: "Palmieri".

Club: AC Milan
Name: Palmieri
Shirt Name: PALMIERI
Number: 2
Positions: SB, CB, SWP,

Nationality: Italian _ita
Age: 27

Height: 180 cm
Weight: 73 kg

Injury Tolerance: A
Foot: R
Side: B

Attack: 80
Defence: 85
Balance: 83
Stamina: 95
Top Speed: 85
Acceleration: 86
Response: 90
Agility: 85
Dribble Accuracy: 85
Dribble Speed: 83
Short Pass Accuracy: 84
Short Pass Speed: 86
Long Pass Accuracy: 92
Long Pass Speed: 88
Shot Accuracy: 72
Shot Power: 87
Shot Technique: 77
Free Kick Accuracy: 83
Curling: 87
Header: 88
Jump: 90
Technique: 84
Aggression: 87
Mentality: 96
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 93

Condition/Fitness: 8
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 8

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
Covering
Sliding
D-line Control
1-touch
Passing
Long throw

Now, THIS is a fucking incredible fullback. This is someone about whom i'd be ready to say, hey this guy deserves to be regarded as a 98 OVR fullback, he's got a defensible claim to being AS GOOD as someone like peak Cristiano Ronaldo! He's better flat out than the likes of Zidane, Xavi, Robben, or Van Basten despite being a fullback.
And what i like about this experimental set is that, incredible as it is, it's composed of stats ratings that are all in themselves plausible. In just about every attribute of Palmieri, there have been fullbacks who reached higher levels. The key to Palmieri's greatness is that he is almost as good as the best fullbacks ever at each of their outstanding abilities, in EVERY key area for a fullback! So he's a very very offensively influential fullback, but there have been more offensively brilliant fullbacks. He's superb at defending, but there have been a half dozen fullbacks better- some much better. Palmieri's stamina is nearly limitless, but so have so many other fullbacks been. His dribbling is very very nice for a fullback- a really nice extra; he's still not zanetti, or marcelo however, rather, solidly in the Vincent Candela, Cicinho, Alex Sandro, Juanfran tier. His short passing is exceptionally good amongst fullbacks- in the very highest tier- but again not unprecedented, being matched by De Boer and Segarra, and still below Carlos Alberto's 86 spa. The crossing ratings are also in the very highest of calibre, but not something never seen before.

All throughout the set are values that jump out as world class, but they are all plausible. Palmieri's greatness is that he combines it all into one. He is like Fachetti but offensively rounded like a Candela, with the tactical mastery and leadership of a lahm/maldini, and the lung bursting ability of a roberto carlos- all while being sturdy physically, outstanding in aerial presence, a reliable bombing tendency with his 87 aggression, and very respectable shooting.

THIS is a fullback that i'd point to and say, this is a player that can be considered one of the 5 best players in history, PERIOD.

Being great in all the relevant areas of a position is what i see defines the all time greats. What distinguishes the like of Pele, Messi, Cristiano, Maradona, Cruyff? What is the difference between Lionel Messi and Dejan Savicevic after all? Well the difference is, Savicevic was one of the greatest dribblers ever, just as Messi is, but outside of that, Savicevic was very good but not world leading. Messi? Messi at his best was simultaneously the world's best dribbler, the world's best finisher, the world's most dangerous striker, the world's most agile and explosive attacker, arguably the world's best killer ball passer, and in a league of 2 for the most aggressive player in the world.

Cristiano? Cristiano at his physical peak was arguably the fastest player in the world, while having arguably the most powerful shot in the world, while arguably being the best header/ jumper in the world, while having one of the 10 best first touches in the world, while being the most aggressive player in the world. That was a player with 11 orange or higher stats, and only 3 stats less than yellow! It's much the same for Pele, Cruyff, or Maradona, or the short irrepressible spell of Ronaldo Nazario. These were the untouchables because they did everything great players below them could do, but also so many other things beyond that just as well!

So when i look at most fullbacks, even the very best, i just see too many "holes" in even the expected domain of ability for a fullback to seriously consider them amongst the objectively generation defining players. I think there have been fullbacks that changed the way fullbacks were viewed, and i think there have been fullbacks who demonstrated extraordinary abilities to influence and contribute to matches. But i've yet to know of any fullback that i can say reached a level to be considered era defining for an entire era of football.

So i have tried to entertain the notion, but remain utterly unconvinced that fullbacks as we've known them so far, should be credited on the same level as comparitively great strikers, or attacking midfielders, even Centre Backs. Roberto Carlos was a physical phenomenon, with shooting power, stamina, and acceleration that stands amongst the best of any position; he was a great offensive influence, a very good crosser, and had a terrific first touch. But it's an accepted view that he was a quite compromised defender, didn't have a level of organization with his teammates that could be called remarkable, and despite a good leap, was quite quite short. Now Roberto Carlos dominates some of the most important attributes for a fullback, but there are a few areas that could be significantly improved on. Maldini in his fullback days lacked a few things quite clearly- firstly offensive ability, having a paltry 70 attack. This is the major flaw for Maldini as a fullback, outside of this, Maldini is very well rounded in his technique, being a good short passer, crosser, and having a good touch and dribbling ability. He lacks being "great" as a crosser though, which does somewhat detract from a claim to being a master fullback. These small differences in key areas add up until we can count quite a few areas important for a fullback that are a bit short of excellent. eventually, there are too many differences to credibly call any of these candidates "master fullbacks". Yet these are the best fullbacks we've ever seen. But in order to call these fullbacks "98/99" calibre... we have to forgive shortcomings from being absolute masters that we wouldn't give to other positions. For these reasons, i think it is qualitatively discernible, as well as objectively demonstrable through logic such as this one, WHY we should not be calling any of the fullbacks that we've seen so far in history, worthy of 97 OVR plus esteem. Doing so degrades what such a rating should be clearly suggesting about the abilities of such a player, even if we try to judge such worth within the sole context of the fullback position. Instead, the level i see as fair would be more towards a 93.

And like i've tried to show here, a player such as this fullback "Palmieri" is someone i would recognize as truly a player comparable to the likes of the top ten greatest players ever- possibly superior to some of those. This hypothetical player is great as a fullback in that same way that a Messi or Cristiano are great as strikers/wingers, he is world leading, historically great, in nearly if not ALL of the key areas for a fullback. Therefore, he is nearly perfect- rewarded with a nearly perfect OVR rating of 98.

This extends into my idea about "objective" worthiness of a player, which is analogously representable via a sort of test question i use to gauge how the scales should harmonize against each other. The question which i pose to myself is: If someone was given a team of random 70 OVR players, but was allowed to pick a player of any position at a fixed, universal OVR rating, at what tier of each respective position would players be selected from and call the interchangeable choices equivalent?

I'd also like to point out about how the above set of Palmieri can demonstrate how because each Overall Rating formula is tailored towards the strengths required in each respective positions, that just by putting a set of Palmieri into different positions, we can get very logical outputs. For example, Palmieri is a 98 SB, his main position, but also a 96 SWP, a 94 CB, a 96 WB, a 99 DMF, a 97 CMF, a 93 SMF, a 90 WF, an 89 SS, an 87 CF.

So because each OVR Formula is tailored to the position, there is a very strong ability to actually test the viability or potential value of a player playing in a different position than his natural one.

Take the Case of Fabian Delph. The leader and talismanic central midfielder of Aston Villa, Delph became a rotational bench level player having leapt into the bigger pond that is Guardiola's Manchester City. Subseqeuently, Delph hasn't earned any playing time in his natural position. But while Delph was not good enough to play as the CMF, that he normally is, he managed to transfer his skillset into becoming a very respectable fullback. And what is most pleasing is seeing how Delph is rated as a SB. As a CMF, Delph had an OVR of 82, but thanks to having good stamina, good defensive ability, and some good pace, Delph transfers into being a similarly valuable SB with an OVR 82.
What is interesting for me is seeing how Delph's relative worth changes when he is viewed in his ability in a different position. As a CMF, Delph is easily behind the 92 OVR De Bruyne, or the 91 David Silva, or the 89 OVR Fernandinho. But as a fullback, Delph competes against Kyle Walker, who is at an OVR of 85, and Benjamin Mendy with an OVR of 84. Against this calibre, Delph has a much more favourable chance of getting playing time. And here we can connect several observations into an overarching logical frame: that Delph is NOT a better Fullback than he is a Central Midfielder- his natural position, but Delph is MORE useful as a fullback than he is a CMF because he is closer to being one of the best fullbacks on his team. Therefore Delph has an equivalent SB OVR to the OVR he has in his natural position of CMF, but Delph is more valuable, and recieves much more playing time as a result, when he is used as a fullback.

This also reinforces the notion that fullbacks do tend to be less competent per the value scale than players in other position- no wonder when they so often tend to be players who are converted from other positions!

This unrestricted ability to gauge players beyond even their natural position is highly useful for utility players like Cocu- the famous dutch midfielder equally capable as a fullback, central midfielder, defensive midfielder, and sweeper. And his OVR ratings?
CMF 89, SWP 88, SB 88, DMF 90, SMF 83, WF 81, SS 82.

So i hope these explanations demonstrate more clearly my idea about how all the different position OVR can be logically harmonized based both on qualitatively assessing the influence a player has in a particular position via his skillset, and how that skillset should then translate to other positions in a totally organic direct swap.

As i conclude my exposition, i want to make it clear that the particular scales for each position that i have in place are NOT FIXED. I am open and interested in solid criticism of either my logic or my scale, and am willing to adjust the scaling of particular positions.

For example, should i after all simply move the likes of Carlos Alberto and Roberto Carlos, Maldini, up from a 93 OVR to a 98, just to represent them as equivalently outstanding in their position as others are in other positions? I have not found a solid way to justify such a thing, but i have been encouraged to consider this possibilty, and so i remain open to good arguments.
If you don't put effort into your post, i won't put effort in my response.
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 513 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Oriello » 2019 Jun 07, 14:50

Your making sense vinnie and are reasonable with your ideas.

I don't disagree with anything at the moment, since theoretically it sounds like a great way to get a handle across eras and different tiers of leagues of where players should sit with their overall. Allowing us to highlight the best attributes of lesser known players - balanced with being conservative with their weaker attributes. And see if there is a distribution that exists like in real life.

I would like to see this at work for a month at least on the site, since none of us has put in as much time as yourself thinking about this (for years?), so seeing it in practice and having the full range of PSDs players rated will help us see if the tool works in highlighting problems and if we can resolve them without any unforeseen issues popping up.


The tool/idea is very good vinnie, its something analysts would dream of using, making players more tangibly defined through time and in different leagues, rather than vague worded qualifiers of qualities, PES metrics (which could be delineated into even more categories/areas) giving a value of a players utility and allowing us to plot that against others. The amount of time you have spent refining the weightings of values is surely more than PES/Konami did with their overalls. I'm sure your project is ready for implementation.


Fine tunning/patching might be needed later, but the users are crying out for our messiah to spread this algorithm upon PSD land, the mangoes are shrivelling with the wait!
AMC
PSD Youth League
Posts: 94
Joined: 2010 Jun 24, 11:54
Location: Liverpool
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby AMC » 2019 Jun 11, 09:12

Absolutely phenomenal work mate, I read this a few months back so to see a recent update was fantastic.

The only thing from the OVRs that stands out and given the description of players with rating 99, 97. 95-96 etc is Bobby Moore, who I think we'll agree is one of the best centre backs of all time but only gets an OVR of 92 which by your description is someone who is in the best 20 players for a particular season and also sees him behind his fellow Classic England centre back Tony Adams by one point.

I'm guessing this is due to his low response stat, while his heading/jumping also isn't great as it wasn't really his game, but is their maybe some stats for him that maybe improved such as mentality (90) or even teamwork (95) which will boost him up in to the 97 or 95-96 category which I think he deserves so he is along other greats like Beckenbauer, Baresi, Maldini and Figueroa?

Great work once again though mate, kudos.
josev
Regular Poster
Posts: 345
Joined: 2012 Jan 20, 07:54
Has thanked: 188 times
Been thanked: 133 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby josev » 2019 Jun 11, 11:29

we've had a discussion with vinnie on discord regarding overalls for tottenham players, and most of them were calculated perfectly, with only a few being just a point too high or too low, which is fine with me as a single point doesn't make much difference and tweaking it further may disrupt the balance for different types of players. the only problem i had was with moussa sissoko who i thought due to his standout physique would be 82-83 but ended up only 81, but on the second thought it's fine as vinnie pointed out that prime matuidi is 84, and after all sissoko it still kind of a limited niche player that just happened to fit really well into this season's tottenham's tactics. i suggested the weightning of attributes for cmfs overall could be increased for body balance and stamina slightly to give sissoko and other dominant midfielders more points, but vinnie said it could disrupt the balance and make weaker midfielders like iniesta or xavi have less ovr, which is convincing enough for me to keep it the way it is for the sake of the balance
vinnie
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: 2012 Apr 06, 03:11
Location: ♛      
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm - Champion's League Knockout Stage - OVR Tests

Postby vinnie » 2019 Dec 31, 01:30

Here I present overall calculations of each of the Champion's League teams according to the OVR rating each player has with my current OVR formulas- these are 99.99% the same formulas with only very minor tweaks, the biggest change was a scaling adjustment for SBs where for example now Roberto Carlos is a borderline 94 OVR instead of his previous 93.

With these lineups, we see how the OVRs look like when applied to PSD Sets. I've added an average OVR for each team as well just as a reference.

UEFA Champions League Knock-Out Stages: Round of 16

AGG 1.
Image
Image


Borussia Dortmund Average OVR: 84.4 vs Paris Saint-Germain FC Average OVR: 87.4.

Note: Marquinhos is currently being played out of position at DMF; he is an 87 CB and an 80 DMF, and Diallo has filled in as an 80 rated CB. If Verratti does not recover and PSG are forced to continue with the formation they've used recently, then PSG's average OVR drops down to 86.6.

AGG 2.
Image
Image


Manchester City: 87.5 vs Real Madrid: 87.3

AGG 3.
Image
Image


Valencia CF: 82.3 vs. Atalanta BC: 82.7

AGG 4.
Image
Image


Atletico Madrid: 86.5 vs. Liverpool FC: 88.1

AGG 5.
Image
Image


Chelsea FC: 83.8 vs. FC Bayern Munchen: 86.8

Note: Kante has an 88 OVR from his DMF rating, as a CMF he drops down to 84, and subsequently the average OVR for Chelsea drops down to 83.5. I don't know whether Kante is being used more as a DMF or a CMF atm.
For Bayern, they've suffered a massive loss in Sule [85 OVR], and i'm not sure how they plan on setting up the team now; i've seen davies play occaisonally at LB with alaba at CB, but with Lucas Hernandez expected to return by January, i predict that Davies will be dropped and Alaba moved back to LB.

AGG 6.
Image
Image

Olympique Lyonnais : 80.4 vs. Juventus FC: 86.9

Note: Lyon have lost their best offensive player in Memphis Depay, and i've looked at the recent lineups Lyon have put out to predict their likely starting formation.

AGG 7.
Image
Image


RB Leipzig: 82.4 vs. Tottenham Hotspurs FC: 85.0

Note: The recently world class Christian Eriksen isn't included since he has hardly featured this season. I don't know how much this is due to form or due to transfer quarrelling, but this is a significant downgrade from Eriksen's 90 OVR down to Cissoko's 81. With Eriksen included, Spurs' OVR rises to 85.8.

AGG 8.
Image
Image


FC Barcelona: 87.7 vs. SSC Napoli: 85.5

__________________________________________

Teams ranked by estimated Average OVR:

  1. Liverpool FC: 88.1
  2. FC Barcelona: 87.7
  3. Manchester City: 87.5
  4. Paris Saint-Germain FC: 87.4
  5. Real Madrid: 87.3
  6. Juventus FC: 86.9
  7. FC Bayern Munchen: 86.8
  8. Atletico Madrid: 86.5
  9. SSC Napoli: 85.5
  10. Tottenham Hotspurs FC: 85.0
  11. Borussia Dortmund: 84.4
  12. Chelsea FC: 83.8
  13. Atalanta BC: 82.7
  14. RB Leipzig: 82.4
  15. Valencia CF:82.3
  16. Olympique Lyonnais: 80.4

__________________________________________

I think these are quite reasonable OVR ratings, and as a comment on moderator work: I was very pleased with the sets i saw in the weaker teams, they seemed to very appropriately represent 'good' players. I see evidence that the quality level of sets here is quite good throughout the Elite leagues; certainly I think there is a noticeable improvement in the quality of the sets of lesser known players.

I'd Appreciate comments about how the OVR rating formulas have performed here in this presentation. Are some positions skewed too low? Are some positions skewed too high? Or are some particular kinds of players too low/high? Please let me know about your impressions.


I think the OVR ratings are in a very good state right now, so i'm close to concluding my OVR formulas for players and beginning the next step from individual OVRs- a much more complicated "Team OVR" concept I have in mind, where not just the average individual OVR rating is used, but a consideration of technical necessities for particular tactical set-ups, as well as average technical/physical weightings as a macro consideration is used to generate a Team OVR rating. I'm joking a bit, but it's even feasible to incorporate and design Manager OVR ratings :lol:
Maybe that's not actually a real joke either- that could be done, should we open that avenue of possibility.


Re: some earlier questions in the thread:
AMC wrote:Absolutely phenomenal work mate, I read this a few months back so to see a recent update was fantastic.

The only thing from the OVRs that stands out and given the description of players with rating 99, 97. 95-96 etc is Bobby Moore, who I think we'll agree is one of the best centre backs of all time but only gets an OVR of 92 which by your description is someone who is in the best 20 players for a particular season and also sees him behind his fellow Classic England centre back Tony Adams by one point.

I'm guessing this is due to his low response stat, while his heading/jumping also isn't great as it wasn't really his game, but is their maybe some stats for him that maybe improved such as mentality (90) or even teamwork (95) which will boost him up in to the 97 or 95-96 category which I think he deserves so he is along other greats like Beckenbauer, Baresi, Maldini and Figueroa?

Great work once again though mate, kudos.


Hi AMC thanks for the comment,

With the adjustment i've made recently Moore rises to 93. This is still short of the all-time level of 96-97 mentioned before. I'm not sure what should be done about this, because Moore already has an All-time level Teamwork rating for a Defender. A boost in Teamwork and Response can see Moore reach 95 OVR, but the key deficiency in Moore's set is in his physical qualities, and i don't know if he really deserves more than he already has. And i can only really accept set changes if they are deserved raises. My Iron rule is that sets should never be changed to suit the OVR ratings formula- so any set changes should only be ones which are deserved.

Moore has his own all-time leading qualities, such as his 99 DEF and 95 TMW, but they don't quite do enough to compensate for a physical standard that is quite below the 95 calibre CBs.

I think this is a problem of comparing eras, as we can see that there was on average a quite significant difference in physical abilities between players of the post 1980s and pre 1980s eras.

The problem with Moore is quite very much the same as for Ference Puskas and his OVR rating at CF.

The only players from pre 1970s that compare favourably to modern eras in terms of my metric are all the ones who possessed "modern" physical qualities and conditioning, such as Pele or Di Stefano, or arguably Figueroa. I say arguably because i have my doubts about his set as it is at PSD atm- I suspect it's an overrated set left unnoticed in old standards.

Otherwise, i notice that on a whole classic players pre 1970 are about 3 OVR points weaker on average just due to physical differences.
User avatar
Vickingo
PSD Backbone
Posts: 16491
Joined: 2010 Jun 09, 02:18
Location: Argentina
Has thanked: 1752 times
Been thanked: 1339 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Vickingo » 2019 Dec 31, 03:57

@vinnie great work as always. Is there any way to replicate this graphic or smth similar?
Spoiler: show
Image


We've been working in new standards and made tones and tones of updates in Liga MX, MLS, Brazil, AFA and all Conmebol section. So i would like to know how it was replicated in general ratings and compared to other bigger leagues. I guess we're quite closer to the reality now, but it'd be great watch it closely. I mean, OR of all those leagues. Thanks.
User avatar
Oriello
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 2524
Joined: 2008 Dec 10, 04:46
Has thanked: 513 times
Been thanked: 564 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm - Champion's League Knockout Stage - OVR Tests

Postby Oriello » 2020 Jan 01, 15:01

vinnie wrote:as a comment on moderator work: I was very pleased with the sets i saw in the weaker teams, they seemed to very appropriately represent 'good' players.


If its not too big an ask, could you do a similar thing (minus fancy formation graphic) as above but for each player in the squad for TFC, LAFC, Seattle, NYCFC, Philly, DC United and Atlanta* (this one still has a few untouched sets like Pogba) - these are the most recently updated teams from MLS - it would be nice to know if I am on track in placing the league appropriately.

The league has good parity but there are still some worse sides that I have yet to fully flesh out like Colorado, Cincinnati..New England soon will be one of the "weaker" teams complete.

Even ratings of the upper echelon of MLS will give me some bearings if I am still too generous or not on a squad by squad basis - strong XI's with a drop off in overall rating into the bench is what should be expected, except maybe for Atlanta.

You can PM me on discord if you dont want to clog this thread up.
Obdz
New Contributor
Posts: 14
Joined: 2016 Jun 18, 00:06
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Obdz » 2020 Dec 16, 17:34

Hi Vinnie,

I've read your work and it is a good. I agree with most of what you presented. Regarding the first part, I think there are two separate processes that are ultimately related: (1) setting reasonable real stats for players, perfectly accurate is preferrabale, and (2) is making a formula that uses those stats to calculate the overall rating. So what you've said in the first part is completely related to mistakes in setting those stats and being, sometimes, completely separated from reality when setting them. I like that in this site each player is given stats based on different years they've played, that way each change can be tracked. But, yeah, some players often decline but are their stats are kept in their peak, while others are their 4 good players rated as a tier 1 good players.

Regarding setting an high end for each position differently, I disagree with this, but I also understand your point of view. Can you compare Drogba to Terry? The moment in CL finals where Drogba attempted to tackle inside the box and resulted in penalty is still in my head. Each position have its set of skills or attributes required for it. Some attributes are shared amongst all positions but are wighted differently in each one. So when we start to compare positions things start to get unreasonable. I think it is best to calculate OVR for each position on its own without trying to scale it based on other positions. If Maldini is 97, for example, then it is because what he is in his position, and when comparing, compare him to ratings in his position.

Talking about ratings. I developed a formula myself but then I lost the file by mistake. That was a year ago when I lost it, and now I may try making it again. I remember that it is was balanced but certain things gave me headache.
(1) DMF and SB positions were the hardest to balance because they require the player to possess the highest amount of attributes. And DMF is complicated because there are different roles for it: mainly a (a) playmaker and (b) defender. So those two roles can operate in this position which is why balancing it was difficult. The same can be said about CMF but less extreme than DMF.
(2) CMF or DMF players getting higher rating as AMF which is not their position. Or sometimes vice versa. The whole midfield was hard to balance.

Excited to see your updated balanced rating and to see how you've dealt with those problems. Hope you will share with us soon.

Thanks
Obdz
New Contributor
Posts: 14
Joined: 2016 Jun 18, 00:06
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Obdz » 2020 Dec 16, 17:35

Hi Vinnie,

I've read your work and it is a good. I agree with most of what you presented. Regarding the first part, I think there are two separate processes that are ultimately related: (1) setting reasonable real stats for players, perfectly accurate is preferrabale, and (2) is making a formula that uses those stats to calculate the overall rating. So what you've said in the first part is completely related to mistakes in setting those stats and being, sometimes, completely separated from reality when setting them. I like that in this site each player is given stats based on different years they've played, that way each change can be tracked. But, yeah, some players often decline but are their stats are kept in their peak, while others are their 4 good players rated as a tier 1 good players.

Regarding setting an high end for each position differently, I disagree with this, but I also understand your point of view. Can you compare Drogba to Terry? The moment in CL finals where Drogba attempted to tackle inside the box and resulted in penalty is still in my head. Each position have its set of skills or attributes required for it. Some attributes are shared amongst all positions but are wighted differently in each one. So when we start to compare positions things start to get unreasonable. I think it is best to calculate OVR for each position on its own without trying to scale it based on other positions. If Maldini is 97, for example, then it is because what he is in his position, and when comparing, compare him to ratings in his position.

Talking about ratings. I developed a formula myself but then I lost the file by mistake. That was a year ago when I lost it, and now I may try making it again. I remember that it is was balanced but certain things gave me headache.
(1) DMF and SB positions were the hardest to balance because they require the player to possess the highest amount of attributes. And DMF is complicated because there are different roles for it: mainly a (a) playmaker and (b) defender. So those two roles can operate in this position which is why balancing it was difficult. The same can be said about CMF but less extreme than DMF.
(2) CMF or DMF players getting higher rating as AMF which is not their position. Or sometimes vice versa. The whole midfield was hard to balance.

Excited to see your updated balanced rating and to see how you've dealt with those problems. Hope you will share with us soon.

Thanks
HAL 9000
New Contributor
Posts: 40
Joined: 2020 Dec 22, 03:25
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby HAL 9000 » 2021 Jan 04, 15:58

I've been enjoying using these algorithms.

For strikers, this is what I've got.

95 - Ronaldo, Van Basten
94 - Falcao
93 - Shearer, Gerd Muller, Seeler, Law, Kocsis, Papin, Romário, Weah
92 - Van Nistelrooy, Batistuta, Hugo Sánchez, Vavá
91 - Shevchenko, Riva, Vieri, Fontaine, Fischer, Henry, Larsson
90 - Trezeguet, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski, Rush, Nordahl, Klinsmann, Drogba, Eto'o, Salas, Altafini
89 - Adriano, José Águas, Makaay, Reinaldo, Careca, Voller, Wright, Klose, Eljkaer, Butragueno, Sukur, Owen
88 - John Charles, Villa, Greaves, Fernando Torres, Pruzzo, Crespo, Mbappé, Kempes, Cavani, Pauleta, Berbatov, Forlán, Toshack, Suker, Albert, Zamorano, Fowler
87 - Kane, Jardel, Fernando Gomes, Inzaghi, Vialli, Toni, Huntelaar, Aldridge, Luís Fabiano, Spencer, Aldridge, Kluivert, Viduka, Andy Cole
86 - Élber, McCoist, Coutinho (Santos), Dieter Muller, Lacombe, Morientes, Hurst, Rossi, Milito
85 - Bierhoff, Mariner, Nené, Hasselbaink, Valdano, Boksic, Tristán
84 - Lineker, Sharp, Chivers, Hrubesch, Saviola, Koller, Van Hooijdonk, Haaland, Cissé, Giroud
83 - Ailton, Baros, Nuno Gomes, Chapuisat, McCarthy
82 - José Torres, Cardozo
80 - Iaquinta, Solsjkaer, Yekini, Julio Cruz
79 - Liedson
77 - Jancker
vinnie
PSD Loyalty Program Member
Posts: 4047
Joined: 2012 Apr 06, 03:11
Location: ♛      
Has thanked: 776 times
Been thanked: 1158 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby vinnie » 2021 Jun 10, 08:20

I've been making some tweaks on the algorithms; I think i've made some improvements in the SB algorithm, as well as the WF algorithm. I hae made very minor adjustments in alot of other positions, while 1 or 2 positions have remained unchanged since the last time I posted here.

It's been a while since the last Overall Ratings Ladder I shared, and it's fun to see how some players have declined, or dropped off completely, while others have made meteoric rises during this period, so here is this year's edition!

Almost all of the sets tested in this ladder are the PSD sets as of yesterday. Some sets were increased very recently and went up in the ladder as a result, such as ronaldo's SA update bumping him up from 95 OVR to 96 OVR, and neymar's DA update bumping Neymar from 94 up to 95 OVR. There are about 5 exceptions, one is the aguero set which is based on anOKguy's nerfed set shared in the discord chat [his current set results in a 92 OVR rating at CF], and the hazard set which is based on amine's nerfed set also shared in the discord chat. I tested my own Cragno set over the PSD set as I am very familiar with his quality. I also tested a Lewandowski set with my own updates which I will be applying to the database soon- so this can be considered a pending update. The current Lewandowski is at 91 at CF. Other than these exceptions, these results are based purely on PSD sets as of yesterday.

As always, I welcome any feedback. If I missed a player, feel free to request a player for me to test through either a message here, or on the discord chat. This list is by no means exhaustive; I've only tried to test as many players as I am familiar with and are currently playing- I may have missed on some obvious names!

I have been working on writing a program so that the algorithms will be available to everyone in or outside of PSD to use for fun, rather than just being a feature for the database; I think this will be available soon.

The Overall ratings system on the database might be up and working again thanks to the work of paablito, so it might not be too long until we can see up to date OVR ratings on the main page once more. This will be very exciting as we will finally be able to begin league and nation wide standards monitoring when the OVR ratings is actively working for every set in the database.

Thanks to everyone helping me with my testing on the discord servers.


Overall Ratings Ladder - June 2021
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
99
98
97 SS Messi
96 SS Cristiano, CB Van Dijk
95 SS Neymar
94 AMF De Bruyne
93 CF Lewandowski
92 SS Griezmann, CMF Kimmich, CB Marquinhos, GK Neuer
91 SS Mbappe, SS Salah, CB J. M. Gimenez, GK Oblak
90 CF Aguero, CF Kane, AMF Bruno Fernandes, CMF Thiago, DMF Verratti, CB Laporte

89 CF Suarez, SS Heung-min Son, AMF David Silva, AMF Isco, CMF Gundogan, CMF Koke, CMF Frenkie De Jong, DMF Fernandinho, SB Robertson, SB Jordi Alba, SB Cuadrado, CB De Vrij, GK Courtois

88 CF Benzema, CF Aubameyang, CF Cavani, CF Ibrahimovic, CF Immobile, SS Reus, SS Sterling, SS Dybala, WF Mane, AMF Hazard, AMF Coutinho, AMF Sergio Canales, AMF Bernardo Silva, SMF Mahrez, SMF Carrasco, SMF Kostic, CMF Barella, CMF Luis Alberto, CMF Goretzka, DMF N'Golo Kante, DMF Partey, DMF Casemiro, CB Ruben Dias, CB Thiago Silva, CB Skriniar, CB Koulibaly, CB Acerbi, CB Hummels, CB Sergio Ramos, GK Keylor Navas

87 CF Haaland, CF Vardy, SS Thomas Muller, SS Ilicic, SS Alexis Sanchez, WF Di Maria, WF Insigne, WF Gnabry, AMF Marcos Llorente, AMF Joao Felix, AMF James Rodriguez, CMF Milinkovic-Savic, CMF Pogba, CMF Milner, DMF Brozovic, CB Varane, CB Savic, CB Felipe, CB Chiellini, CB De Ligt, GK Ter Stegen, GK Lloris

86 CF Lukaku, CF Belotti, CF Dzeko, CF Mertens, SS Lautaro Martinez, SS Firmino, WF Coman, WF Chiesa, WF Ousmane Dembele, WF Adama Traore, AMF Sancho, AMF Ziyech, AMF Odegaard, AMF Mason Mount, AMF James Maddison, SMF Zaniolo, SMF Shaqiri, CMF Kovacic, CMF Modric, CMF Kroos, CMF Mikel Merino, CMF Kessie, CMF Vidal, CMF Ander Herrera, DMF Fabinho, DMF Jorginho, DMF Hojbjerg, DMF Rodri, DMF Axel Witsel, SB Alexander-Arnold, SB Azpilicueta, SB Walker, SB Carvajal, SB Jesus Navas, CB Maguire, CB Matip, CB Diego Carlos, CB Manolas, CB Pepe, GK Donnarumma, GK Onana

85 CF Calvert-Lewin, CF Werner, CF Morata, SS Angel Correa, SS Iago Aspas, SS Martial, WF Sane, WF Asensio, WF Rashford, WF Felipe Anderson, AMF Fekir, AMF Payet, SMF Lucas Moura, CMF Parejo, CMF Tolisso, CMF Delaney, DMF Busquets, DMF Jordan Henderson, SB Pavard, SB Tierney, SB Lucas Digne, CB Eder Militao, CB Bonucci, CB Jonny Evans, CB Kimpembe, CB Tapsoba, CB Raul Albiol, CB Djene Dakonam, CB Sule, GK Handanovic, GK Szczesny, GK De Gea, GK Ederson, GK Rui Patricio,

84 CF Gerard Moreno, CF Raul Jimenez, CF Zapata, CF Falcao, CF Ben Yedder, SS Jovetic, WF Foden, WF Zaha, WF Ocampos, AMF Julian Brandt, AMF Grealish, AMF Pedri, AMF Iker Muniain, SMF Jesus Corona, SMF Buendia, CMF Laimer, CMF Allan, CMF James Ward-Prowse, CMF Saul Niguez, CMF Valverde, DMF Nzonzi, DMF William Carvalho, DMF Pjanic, SB Angelino, SB Kolarov, SB Cancelo, SB Chilwell, SB Tagliafico, CB Yerry Mina, CB Michael Keane, CB Jules Kounde, CB Godin, GK Yann Sommer, GK Gulasci, GK Cragno, GK Kasper Schmeichel,

83 CF Depay, CF Burak Yilmaz, CF Lacazette, CF Danny Ings, CF Andre Silva, SS Volland, WF Bale, WF Richarlison, WF Nicolas Pepe, WF Oyarzabal, WF Berardi, AMF Emil Forsberg, AMF Kai Havertz, SMF Vitolo, SMF Oxlaide-Chamberlain, SMF Bernard, SMF Gosens, SMF Januzaj, CMF Tielemens, CMF Joao Moutinho, CMF Wijnaldum, CMF Lo Celso, CMF Arthur, CMF McKennie, CMF Hector Herrera, DMF Matic, DMF Julian Weigl, DMF Fernando, DMF Tapia, SB Zinchenko, SB Ferland Mendy, SB Marcelo, SB Gaya, SB Benjamin Mendy, CB Lucas Hernandez, CB Upamecano, CB Konate, CB Rudiger, CB Fofana, CB Kjaer, CB Pique, CB Denayer, GK Asenjo, GK Bono, GK Unai Simon, GK Ospina


82 CF Isak, CF Milik, CF Callum Wilson, CF Gabriel Jesus, SS Ribery, SS Dusan Tadic, SS Carlos Vela, WF Lozano, AMF Calhanoglu, CMF Eriksen, CMF Trigueros, CMF Joan Jordan, CMF Fabregas, CMF Gueye, CMF Freuler, CMF Rabiot, DMF Ndidi, DMF Lucas Leiva, DMF Ruben Neves, SB Alphonso Davies, SB Alex Sandro, SB Trippier, SB Renan Lodi, CB Pau Torres, CB Nacho, CB Lenglet, CB Fonte, CB Soyuncu, GK Sirigu, GK Strakosha, GK Emiliano Martinez, GK Fabianski, GK Leno, GK Anthony Lopes, GK Ochoa
If you don't put effort into your post, i won't put effort in my response.
Obdz
New Contributor
Posts: 14
Joined: 2016 Jun 18, 00:06
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby Obdz » 2021 Aug 05, 12:47

vinnie wrote:I've been making some tweaks on the algorithms; I think i've made some improvements in the SB algorithm, as well as the WF algorithm. I hae made very minor adjustments in alot of other positions, while 1 or 2 positions have remained unchanged since the last time I posted here.



Very good ratings
Can you share your algorithms?
HAL 9000
New Contributor
Posts: 40
Joined: 2020 Dec 22, 03:25
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Overall rating Algorithm

Postby HAL 9000 » 2021 Oct 12, 03:10

vinnie wrote:I've been making some tweaks on the algorithms; I think i've made some improvements in the SB algorithm, as well as the WF algorithm. I hae made very minor adjustments in alot of other positions, while 1 or 2 positions have remained unchanged since the last time I posted here.

It's been a while since the last Overall Ratings Ladder I shared, and it's fun to see how some players have declined, or dropped off completely, while others have made meteoric rises during this period, so here is this year's edition!

Almost all of the sets tested in this ladder are the PSD sets as of yesterday. Some sets were increased very recently and went up in the ladder as a result, such as ronaldo's SA update bumping him up from 95 OVR to 96 OVR, and neymar's DA update bumping Neymar from 94 up to 95 OVR. There are about 5 exceptions, one is the aguero set which is based on anOKguy's nerfed set shared in the discord chat [his current set results in a 92 OVR rating at CF], and the hazard set which is based on amine's nerfed set also shared in the discord chat. I tested my own Cragno set over the PSD set as I am very familiar with his quality. I also tested a Lewandowski set with my own updates which I will be applying to the database soon- so this can be considered a pending update. The current Lewandowski is at 91 at CF. Other than these exceptions, these results are based purely on PSD sets as of yesterday.

As always, I welcome any feedback. If I missed a player, feel free to request a player for me to test through either a message here, or on the discord chat. This list is by no means exhaustive; I've only tried to test as many players as I am familiar with and are currently playing- I may have missed on some obvious names!

I have been working on writing a program so that the algorithms will be available to everyone in or outside of PSD to use for fun, rather than just being a feature for the database; I think this will be available soon.

The Overall ratings system on the database might be up and working again thanks to the work of paablito, so it might not be too long until we can see up to date OVR ratings on the main page once more. This will be very exciting as we will finally be able to begin league and nation wide standards monitoring when the OVR ratings is actively working for every set in the database.

Thanks to everyone helping me with my testing on the discord servers.


Overall Ratings Ladder - June 2021
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
99
98
97 SS Messi
96 SS Cristiano, CB Van Dijk
95 SS Neymar
94 AMF De Bruyne
93 CF Lewandowski
92 SS Griezmann, CMF Kimmich, CB Marquinhos, GK Neuer
91 SS Mbappe, SS Salah, CB J. M. Gimenez, GK Oblak
90 CF Aguero, CF Kane, AMF Bruno Fernandes, CMF Thiago, DMF Verratti, CB Laporte

89 CF Suarez, SS Heung-min Son, AMF David Silva, AMF Isco, CMF Gundogan, CMF Koke, CMF Frenkie De Jong, DMF Fernandinho, SB Robertson, SB Jordi Alba, SB Cuadrado, CB De Vrij, GK Courtois

88 CF Benzema, CF Aubameyang, CF Cavani, CF Ibrahimovic, CF Immobile, SS Reus, SS Sterling, SS Dybala, WF Mane, AMF Hazard, AMF Coutinho, AMF Sergio Canales, AMF Bernardo Silva, SMF Mahrez, SMF Carrasco, SMF Kostic, CMF Barella, CMF Luis Alberto, CMF Goretzka, DMF N'Golo Kante, DMF Partey, DMF Casemiro, CB Ruben Dias, CB Thiago Silva, CB Skriniar, CB Koulibaly, CB Acerbi, CB Hummels, CB Sergio Ramos, GK Keylor Navas

87 CF Haaland, CF Vardy, SS Thomas Muller, SS Ilicic, SS Alexis Sanchez, WF Di Maria, WF Insigne, WF Gnabry, AMF Marcos Llorente, AMF Joao Felix, AMF James Rodriguez, CMF Milinkovic-Savic, CMF Pogba, CMF Milner, DMF Brozovic, CB Varane, CB Savic, CB Felipe, CB Chiellini, CB De Ligt, GK Ter Stegen, GK Lloris

86 CF Lukaku, CF Belotti, CF Dzeko, CF Mertens, SS Lautaro Martinez, SS Firmino, WF Coman, WF Chiesa, WF Ousmane Dembele, WF Adama Traore, AMF Sancho, AMF Ziyech, AMF Odegaard, AMF Mason Mount, AMF James Maddison, SMF Zaniolo, SMF Shaqiri, CMF Kovacic, CMF Modric, CMF Kroos, CMF Mikel Merino, CMF Kessie, CMF Vidal, CMF Ander Herrera, DMF Fabinho, DMF Jorginho, DMF Hojbjerg, DMF Rodri, DMF Axel Witsel, SB Alexander-Arnold, SB Azpilicueta, SB Walker, SB Carvajal, SB Jesus Navas, CB Maguire, CB Matip, CB Diego Carlos, CB Manolas, CB Pepe, GK Donnarumma, GK Onana

85 CF Calvert-Lewin, CF Werner, CF Morata, SS Angel Correa, SS Iago Aspas, SS Martial, WF Sane, WF Asensio, WF Rashford, WF Felipe Anderson, AMF Fekir, AMF Payet, SMF Lucas Moura, CMF Parejo, CMF Tolisso, CMF Delaney, DMF Busquets, DMF Jordan Henderson, SB Pavard, SB Tierney, SB Lucas Digne, CB Eder Militao, CB Bonucci, CB Jonny Evans, CB Kimpembe, CB Tapsoba, CB Raul Albiol, CB Djene Dakonam, CB Sule, GK Handanovic, GK Szczesny, GK De Gea, GK Ederson, GK Rui Patricio,

84 CF Gerard Moreno, CF Raul Jimenez, CF Zapata, CF Falcao, CF Ben Yedder, SS Jovetic, WF Foden, WF Zaha, WF Ocampos, AMF Julian Brandt, AMF Grealish, AMF Pedri, AMF Iker Muniain, SMF Jesus Corona, SMF Buendia, CMF Laimer, CMF Allan, CMF James Ward-Prowse, CMF Saul Niguez, CMF Valverde, DMF Nzonzi, DMF William Carvalho, DMF Pjanic, SB Angelino, SB Kolarov, SB Cancelo, SB Chilwell, SB Tagliafico, CB Yerry Mina, CB Michael Keane, CB Jules Kounde, CB Godin, GK Yann Sommer, GK Gulasci, GK Cragno, GK Kasper Schmeichel,

83 CF Depay, CF Burak Yilmaz, CF Lacazette, CF Danny Ings, CF Andre Silva, SS Volland, WF Bale, WF Richarlison, WF Nicolas Pepe, WF Oyarzabal, WF Berardi, AMF Emil Forsberg, AMF Kai Havertz, SMF Vitolo, SMF Oxlaide-Chamberlain, SMF Bernard, SMF Gosens, SMF Januzaj, CMF Tielemens, CMF Joao Moutinho, CMF Wijnaldum, CMF Lo Celso, CMF Arthur, CMF McKennie, CMF Hector Herrera, DMF Matic, DMF Julian Weigl, DMF Fernando, DMF Tapia, SB Zinchenko, SB Ferland Mendy, SB Marcelo, SB Gaya, SB Benjamin Mendy, CB Lucas Hernandez, CB Upamecano, CB Konate, CB Rudiger, CB Fofana, CB Kjaer, CB Pique, CB Denayer, GK Asenjo, GK Bono, GK Unai Simon, GK Ospina


82 CF Isak, CF Milik, CF Callum Wilson, CF Gabriel Jesus, SS Ribery, SS Dusan Tadic, SS Carlos Vela, WF Lozano, AMF Calhanoglu, CMF Eriksen, CMF Trigueros, CMF Joan Jordan, CMF Fabregas, CMF Gueye, CMF Freuler, CMF Rabiot, DMF Ndidi, DMF Lucas Leiva, DMF Ruben Neves, SB Alphonso Davies, SB Alex Sandro, SB Trippier, SB Renan Lodi, CB Pau Torres, CB Nacho, CB Lenglet, CB Fonte, CB Soyuncu, GK Sirigu, GK Strakosha, GK Emiliano Martinez, GK Fabianski, GK Leno, GK Anthony Lopes, GK Ochoa

Ooh, it'd be interesting to see those algorithm tweaks.

Return to “Attributes analysed and explained”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests