Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

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Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby ravlee » 2008 Dec 10, 00:41

Name: Josef "Pepi" Bican

Image Image

Club: Slavia Prague
Number: -
Position: *CF, SS
Nationality: Austrian/Czechoslovakian _aut / _cze _svk
Age: 26-34 (25/09/1913)
Era: 1939/1947

Foot: R
Side: L

Height: 178 cm
Weight: 77 kg

Attack: 95
Defence: 30
Balance: 82
Stamina: 81
Top Speed: 93
Acceleration: 96
Response: 92
Agility: 85
Dribble Accuracy: 85
Dribble Speed: 93
Short Pass Accuracy: 74
Short Pass Speed: 74
Long Pass Accuracy: 72
Long Pass Speed: 73
Shot Accuracy: 95
Shot Power: 85
Shot Technique: 92
Free Kick Accuracy: 73
Curling: 77
Header: 83
Jump: 84
Technique: 85
Aggression: 96
Mentality/Tenacity: 76
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 75

Injury Tolerance: B
Form/Condition/Fitness: 6
Weak Foot Accuracy: 8
Weak Foot frequency: 8
Consistency: 8
Growth type: Standard/Lasting

CARDS:
P15: Goal Poacher
S01: Reaction
S03: 1-on-1 Finish

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
*Positioning
*Reaction
*Scoring
*1-1 Scoring
*Lines

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded


INFO:

Czechs in History - Ian Willoughby
Josef "Pepi" Bican
By: Ian Willoughby

Josef Bican

Josef Bican - who died at the age of 88 in December - was arguably the best Czech footballer ever. There is no argument about one fact - he scored more goals than any other Czech player in the history of the game and is one of the Czech all time sporting greats.

Josef Bican was born in Vienna on September 25, 1913. His mother Ludmila was a Viennese Czech and his father Frantisek came from Sedlice, near Blatna in southern Bohemia. The young Josef - Pepi for short - attended a Czech school in Vienna - the Jan Amos Komensky school. In an interview which he gave a few years before he died, Josef Bican recalled spending the summers with his grandmother in Bohemia when he was a boy.
"We went on a train called The Czech Heart. Hundreds and hundreds of children took that train to Czechoslovakia for those two months every summer. In Vienna there was terrible poverty. People were hungry - it was after the war. I won't forget that too soon. My grandmother was poor, really poor, but those two months were like heaven on earth to me."

Josef's father Frantisek was a footballer and played for Hertha Vienna. He fought in World War I and returned uninjured. It was a cruel irony then that he was to die at 30, of an injury sustained during a football match, when he was kicked in a kidney. He refused an operation and died. Josef was just eight year's old.
Pepi's mother worked in a restaurant kitchen and had great difficulty making ends meet. In later life Bican recalled how he had often gone without shoes. He said that playing football barefoot as a child had left him with great ball control skills.

"In Vienna there were thousands of boys who played football every day. In those days there weren't games or bikes, nothing like that. They didn't exist at all. We didn't even have footballs - we used to make these things called hadraks - rag balls - and we played all day, from morning to evening."

At the age of 12, Josef Bican started playing for the Hertha Vienna junior team. One of the club's sponsors gave him a schilling every time he scored - money which was much appreciated at home. Later the big Vienna club Rapid spotted Pepi and gave him a contract. Did he receive much as an 18-year-old player?

"Nothing at all compared to today. In those days I got 150 schillings. That was a lot of money. A worker, a good worker, got 20/25 schillings a week. Rapid wanted to keep me so much that they started paying me 600 schillings. I was around 20 then."

Pepi's mother Ludmila only came to watch him play a couple of times. On one of those occasions she was sitting very near the pitch - when an opponent fouled her son she ran onto the field and began beating him with her umbrella.

Josef Bican was extremely fast, and could run the 100 metres in 10.8 seconds - as fast as many sprinters in those days. He was a great all round player and could score with both feet as well - he even took penalties with both feet. It was said of him that he only missed one goal-scoring chance in 20.

Josef Bican playing for Slavia Prague
Bican became an Austrian international, and played for Austria in the 1934 World Cup finals in Italy, where they got to the semi-finals. The 1934 finals were to be Bican's last World Cup. In 1937 he left Vienna and joined Slavia Prague and applied for Czechoslovak citizenship. He eventually received it, but a clerical error meant that he couldn't play for Czechoslovakia in the 1938 World Cup finals in France.

As was and is typical of Czech sports clubs, Slavia Prague had many different sections. Josef's wife Jarmila recalled how the club chairman let him know how important he was to the club.

"Chairman Valousek always said we have 14 sections Josef. You have to make money for them all. And there weren't sponsors in those days. And he said don't forget we have an equestrian section and you've got to make money for hay for the horses. I think today's footballers wouldn't be able to support 14 sections - or pay for the hay for the horses!"

Throughout World War II - during the Nazi protectorate - Bican continued to play for Slavia, and kept on scoring goals with ease and regularity. Indeed he was the highest scorer in the league 12 times in his career. One unwelcome side affect of his success on the pitch was bad feeling in the dressing room. Several of his teammates envied his skills and he was called, among other names, an Austrian bastard.

Bican's success gave him something of an entree into high society. He played tennis with the famous actor Vlasta Burian, dined with the actor Jan Werich and knew the film star Adina Mandlova.

After the war several of Europe's big clubs were interested in signing Bican. Juventus Turin were very keen and offered Pepi handsome terms. How cruel fate can be - Bican was advised that there was a real chance the Communists could take over in Italy. He made the fateful decision to stay in Prague.

When the Communists came to power in Czechoslovakia in 1948, Bican refused to join the Communist party, just as before the war he had refused to join the Nazi party in Austria.
In danger of losing his flat in Prague to a communist functionary, Bican tried to improve his standing with the regime by leaving Slavia and joining the club Vitkovice zelezarna. Zelezarna means steelworks and the team had a working class following.

In 1951 Bican signed with Hradec Kralove. On the first of May 1953 he got in trouble with the local Communist party.

"It was May Day and they persuaded me to take part in the May Day parade. From the loud speakers you could hear Long Live President Zapotocky, Long Live President Zapotocky. But people came out on the streets and shouted Long Live Bican, Long Live Bican. But you know, I myself wasn't responsible for that. The factory Communist Party committee called me in to the office and said these two comrades will escort you to the train station and in one hour you'll be out of Hradec Kralove. I hadn't moved so fast in a while. I packed my suitcase and they really went all the way to the station with me and waited till the train had gone. It's a wonder they didn't wave!"

Bican also recalled how on the way to the station a group of around 50 workers stopped him and the comrades and asked if there was any problem. Bican replied that there wasn't. That's OK, said one of the workers - otherwise we would have gone on strike. Pepi was glad he'd replied as he did - he said he'd have got at least 20 years in prison for inciting a strike.
Bican returned to the club he remained associated with till the end of his life, Slavia Prague. Actually in those days it's name was changed to the more Communist-sounding Dynamo Prague. He ended his career with the club, retiring in 1955 at the incredible age of 42. Not surprisingly, he was the oldest player in the league.

Having become used to the good life, Josef Bican was not a happy man under the Communist system. Apart from losing one's health, becoming poor is the worst thing that can happen to anyone, Pepi said, speaking year's later from bitter experience. He and his family got some of their property back after 1989, though not all of it.
Having got on the wrong side of the Communists, the Bicans found themselves ostracized by people they had considered friends. Ludmila Bicanova recalled how they were treated in those years.

"We lost our friends. Our phone didn't ring. We got no post. Even the Czechoslovak Physical Exercise Union - when things were worst - wouldn't help. They wouldn't give him a job - apart from on the roads! And when Pepi went to visit the Union, they ran away like rats so they wouldn't have to greet him. We had no chance at all and nobody gave us any support."

During the Prague Spring of 1968, Bican was told that if he got a coaching job abroad he would be allowed to go. Bican played for Slavia Prague's old boys in those days. He impressed the visiting Belgian team Tongeren and they hired him as coach.

At that time the great Brazilian player Pele was heading for his 1,000th goal and journalists were on the lookout for another player who had netted a thousand. What about Pepi Bican, said the former German player Bimbo Binder - he's scored 5,000! When asked by reporters why he hadn't drawn more attention to his achievements, Bican replied "who'd have believed me if I said I'd scored five times as many goals as Pele?!"

And a lot of Czechs believe that Bican scored 5,000 goals. That figure seems unlikely, to be honest. At least the normal practice is to count league goals only. Josef Bican scored 643 league goals, 196 of those in the Austrian league - a wonderful achievement by any standards.

Josef "Pepi" Bican spent the last few months of last year in hospital with heart problems. He had hoped to be home for Christmas. He died on December 12, at the age of 88 - the grand old man of Czech football.


Source: Czech Radio 7, Radio Prague
URL: http://www.radio.cz/en/article/11870
© Copyright 1996, 2006 Radio Prague


***

JOSEF BICAN

Born: 25 September 1913 in Vienna.

Died: 12 December 2001.

Nick name: Pepi.

Position: Center forward and inside left.

Caps:
Austria 19 (1933-1936) / 14 goals
Czechoslovakia 14 (1938-1949) / 12 goals

League Games:
341 (1931-1955) / 518 goals

Trophies & Tournaments:
World Cup participant: 1934
Mitropa Cup: 1938
Austrian Champion: 1935, 1936, 1937
Austrian runner-up: 1933, 1934
Austrian Cup winner: -
Austrian Cup beaten finalist: 1934
Czech Champion: 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943
Czech runner-up: 1939, 1944
Czech Cup winner: 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1945, 1946
Czech Cup beaten finalist: -
Czechoslovakian Champion: 1947, 1947/48
Czechoslovakian runner-up: 1938, 1938/39, 1946, 1948
Czechoslovakian Cup winner: -
Czechoslovakian Cup beaten finalist: -
Top Scorer Austria: 1934
Top Scorer Czechoslovakia: 1938, 1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1950


League Statistics per Season
Season - Club - Games – Goals
1931/32 Rapid Vienna ..........Austrian League...........08 / 10
1932/33 Rapid Vienna ..........Austrian League...........16 / 11
1933/34 Rapid Vienna ..........Austrian League...........22 / 28
1934/35 Rapid Vienna ..........Austrian League...........03 / 04
1935/36 Admira Vienna ........Austrian League...........15 / 08
1936/37 Admira Vienna ........Austrian League...........11 / 10
1937/38 Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League......19 / 22
1938/39 Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League......11 / 17
1938/39 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............10 / 12
1939/40 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............20 / 50
1940/41 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............22 / 38
1941/42 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............20 / 45
1942/43 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............20 / 39
1943/44 Slavia Prague .........Czech League..............23 / 57
1944/45 Slavia Prague .........no championship
1945/46 Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League.......17 / 31
1946/47 Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League.......22 / 43
1947/48 Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League.......13 / 20
1948.... Slavia Prague .........Czechoslov. League.......07 / 21
1949.... Vitkovice Zelezarny .Czechoslov. League.......II. Division
1950.... Vitkovice Zelezarny .Czechoslov. League.......21 / 22
1951.... Vitkovice Zelezarny .Czechoslov. League.......12 / 08
1952.... Vitkovice Zelezarny .Czechoslov. League.......II. Division
1953.... Spartak Hradek .......Czechoslov. League.......08/ 07
1954.... Dynamo Prague .......Czechoslov. League.......14 / 11
1955.... Dynamo Prague .......Czechoslov. League.......07 / 04


ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Bican

http://www.ct24.cz/sport/29869-legendar ... esati-let/ (watch the video)

http://www.worldfootball.net/spieler_pr ... sef-bican/

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Edward Teach » 2010 Jan 08, 16:54

Now that's a piece of work!

One thing to add about the shooting though, these players were doing it with a ball tantamount to a pig's head with a lead brain, so shooting from distance was a lot harder than what Ronaldo has to contend with nowadays with a ball that plays like a beach ball. The ability to smack one of those gert big leather lumps with boot or head would take some doing, if you ask me!

The other thing about weaker leagues might also suggest more bruising defenders. You could get away with a lot more in those days than you can now.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Jez » 2010 Jan 08, 17:17

Edward Teach wrote:Now that's a piece of work!

One thing to add about the shooting though, these players were doing it with a ball tantamount to a pig's head with a lead brain, so shooting from distance was a lot harder than what Ronaldo has to contend with nowadays with a ball that plays like a beach ball. The ability to smack one of those gert big leather lumps with boot or head would take some doing, if you ask me!

The other thing about weaker leagues might also suggest more bruising defenders. You could get away with a lot more in those days than you can now.


Thanks, classics are so over-rated! Especially players from the 30's - 60's
As I mentioned though, the whole heavy balls thing shouldn't make a difference to our stats. We're trying to make him play on PES like he did in real life so we should rate shot power by comparing it to how it looks on the available footage we have. It's for this reason that players like Bobby Charlton shouldn't be rated any higher than the likes of Gerrard and Ronaldo. We want them to play how they did in real life, not how they 'could' have played with modern equipment ;)

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Brezza » 2010 Jan 08, 18:01

jez wrote:Okay, lets not take anything away from the fact that his goalscoring record is easily the best i've ever seen, ever! But lets also consider the fact that he played in what I imagine to be a very poor league at the time, no disrespect of course to the Austrian and Czech leagues of course. I think he can be entitled to some godly stats, as his record indeed lives up to them, but I think he can be toned down in certain areas and perhaps made slightly better in others. Here's what I think;


The league wasn't poor for his time though, in fact the leagues in Central Europe were considered to be the best and the most innovative of this time and provided three of the four semi-finalists at the 1934 World Cup in Italy. Remember this was a time where the best players stayed in their domestic league, he was part of the Austrian das wunderteam which revolutionized football with their silky play and were considered the to the best in the world at one stage. They were favourites to win the first world cup but lost to eventual winners Italy in the Semi Final, although it was under controversial circumstances. ( Mussolini and all that) He then went on to play in Czechoslovakia afterwards which national team went one better by getting to the final. He was unfortunate to miss out on the 1938 world cup arguably in his prime due to a clerical error.


Attack: 95 * Aggresion: 96I think these could actually see a slight raise. The Goal reord speaks for itself in this case. Could easily sit on a 96 for attack and a 97-98 value for aggresion. To score that many goals, he must have been in the box for 99% of the game.


I'm not completely sure. I can only recall a handful of players at the most over a period of 50-60 years or so with tremendous speed. Compare that with today and there are a far larger amount of pacey players, If you want an indication of how footballers have evolved there's one for you.

Defenders probably had never seen a player with such pace and didn't know how to handle such a player back in the day and I think it was a massive part in his play, so i'm actually unsure that he should have similar predatory stats like Dixie Dean.

Defence: 40 & Mentality: 80 Any reasoning behind these? For such a prolific scorer who obviously must have spent a lot of time in the opposition area it seems odd for him to have relatively decent values for these. I don't reckon he worked very hard for his goals and did any tracking back so these should probably come down a tad.


Agreed

Balance: 80Could possibly see a slight increase to 81/82, as suggested earlier.


I agree here he was said to be quite powerfully built actually. something on par with Torres looks O.K

Top Speed: 97 & Acceleration: 96I appreciate the 100m record, it's very impressive, but there are plenty of 100m stats going around nowadays to suggest that the likes of Robin Van Persie and Wayne Rooney can run the 100m in under 11 seconds and they don't exhibit pace stats such as these when out on the pitch. The 97 in top speed makes him faster than any current footballer alive which is just wrong. As much as I loathe the 'heavy boots' arguement when regarding the likes of shot power, I think in terms of tops speed and acceleration it can be used. He won't have run the 100m in massive leather boots with heavy studs screwed into the bottom. I'd go with Top speed and Acceleration both at 93. And even that imo would be pushing it a bit when we compare those figures to the stats given to todays elite players.


I agree with lowering top speed it does look over the top by today's standards and this forum has an obsession with having acceleration>>>top speed to so 93 seems good. I'll probably do the same to Gento who I went crazy with 8-) . I disagree with lowering acceleration though. I know the argument that some players don't show their pace on the pitch like in 100 m but it works both ways too. Dennis Rommedahl also apparently ran the 100m in 10.2 seconds like Bican and he was still amazingly fast on the pitch. I really detest the The whole "The past players sucked" shit that i read on plenty of forums ( i'm not talking about you Jez just in general) so I don't see why some values can't be on par with some modern day values in terms of speed. it cant be physically impossible for one footballer player out of the hundreds of of thousands playing during 30-50 years or so to have God like acceleration imo. So i will go for top speed 93 acceleration 95/96 which fit in with today' ladders.

Response: 92 Could probably be raised to between 93-95.

Disagreed

Dribble Accuracy: 85 & Dribble Speed: 93 Although people will see the Dribble Accuracy value as average at best, it is actually a very good value by todays standards. Is there anything to suggest that he was better on the ball than Ashley Young, James Milner and Eidur Gudjohnsen? Or equally as adept as Maxi Rodríguez, Luis Suarez and Steven Pienaar? These players are famed for being good dribblers of the ball and are all very technicly gifted footballers, I suggest a more average value for a striker such as 82 or 83. Also, did he run much with the ball and if so, did he really keep this much pace? He could of been for all we know a punt and run type of player, in which case his actual on the ball speed wouldn't be this high. We also have to consider the fact that it seems as though he was more of a poacher than somebody who fashioned his own chances, or at least this is the impression I get from the stats but also from what I've read, so it's unlikely that he ever really went on many runs, although I guess I can't say that for certain until someone backs me up or prooves me otherwise.


But what makes you think that he couldn't be on par with those players? the assumption works both ways, there are plenty of records that say how good he was technically.Like alot of superb Brazilian players over the years he grew up in poverty and he spent most of his childhood playing street football with a rolled-up sock, which gave him superb technique and a knack for improvisation. Apart from dribble speed which could come down slightly I don't think the values are too over the top compared to other classic players nor they need changing.

Shot Accuracy: 96, Shot Power: 85 & Shot Technique: 94Okay, I personally would want to lower his Shot Accuracy but I can understand that I would be heavily outvoted due to the scoring record. It is not un-heard of however, for a player to score many goals and not have a world class, phenonanal placement of the ball. Just look at Cristiano Ronaldo, Pippoi Inzaghi and Luca Toni. He did however score over the odds consistently but who's to say that his goals weren't simply from finishing off team moves, good positioning, and constantly being in the box more than scoring world class accurate goals? My main issue with his shooting though is Shot Technique. This stat is ridiculously overrated in the Classics section. 94? Really? So he scored goals of a similair nature to that of Zlatan Ibrahimovic, David Trezeguet and Fabio Quagliarrella? Better at scoring from awkward angles than Ruud van Nistelrooy, Fernando Torres and Didier Drogba? Somehow I find that unlikely. Of course, there is no footage to back it up, but then again there isn't really anything i've read to suggest that he scored a load of wonder goals. 86/87 could be fairer, this is still a world class value. Did he score a lot from range? 85 is a very decent value for Shot Power, players like Torres and Tevez who have scored a number of goals from range sit on an 84. I think he'd be better of with an 83. Again, he seems to be more of a poacher so Shot Power becomes less of an issue. Just look at van Nistelrooy, he has 79? A PES Player can still generate some power with even that number.


Shooting is the hardest value to rate among players this far back with there being no video evidence, its one of these rated for fun stats really.
I know basing shooting stats on goal records and what we have read is a a completely shit way of rating players but its the only one we have. Nobody can say for certain that he was a Inzaghi or Toni like player who were immense poachers who missed regular chances or he was as prolific as Van Nistelrooy, Gerd Muller with more pace. its all assumption in the end. On the contrary though I have ive read that there were quite a variety to his goals from tap in's to 30 yarders with either foot, so shot power is fine for me. Shot accuracy/technique could be tweaked by one or two points though

Technique: 86Another stat which is often over-rated. People tend not to be able to get hold of a lot of footage from these days, which is fair enough, but it's often the case that people will just give a player a very decent technique rating and not a conervative one if there is no real information available to them. Yossi Benayoun, Niko Kranjcar and and Luka Modric all have this figure. 86 is borderline world class by todays standards (87 seems to be the general line where players really start to stand out in many aspects of PES) so I ask wether or not there is anything to suggest he had such a good touch. The afformentioned players are all rightly rated at borderline world class and they are all famed for being technically gifted players. Was Bican this good? Frank Lampard, Fabio Liverani and Daniel Alves can all be said to have a great touch and are rated at 84 and so I think a more conservative value such as this would be more suited for Bican.


I think I covered what I think here with dribbling but i'd probably agree with a 1 point drop though.

Team Work: 70 As mentioned by someone else, this could probably be raised to the 74/75 range.

Agreed.

Edit-Sorry Ive tidied up the multi-quotes so that should be more readable now.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Edward Teach » 2010 Jan 09, 09:58

I guess this is more a general point than one that directly relates to this bloke, but what's the point of having a statometer that goes up to 99 if you're aren't going to use it for players who are proven to be the very pinnacle in that particular attribute? For example, if you were creating athletes for a similar game you would surely rate Usain Bolt as 99 for top speed as he's the fastest man alive and everyone else would cascade down in kind.

If you were to find a player that could hit ten bottles out of ten off a crossbar then they would surely get 99 for shot accuracy and this bloke 98 and so on.

I'm not advocating the overuse of 99 stats, but if you have found someone who is proven to be the very best at that, then it fits they should be awarded in kind. Thus if anyone is recorded to have run faster than this bloke they would have top speed of 99.

It is logical captain.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Jez » 2010 Jan 09, 15:57

Edward Teach wrote:I guess this is more a general point than one that directly relates to this bloke, but what's the point of having a statometer that goes up to 99 if you're aren't going to use it for players who are proven to be the very pinnacle in that particular attribute? For example, if you were creating athletes for a similar game you would surely rate Usain Bolt as 99 for top speed as he's the fastest man alive and everyone else would cascade down in kind.

If you were to find a player that could hit ten bottles out of ten off a crossbar then they would surely get 99 for shot accuracy and this bloke 98 and so on.

I'm not advocating the overuse of 99 stats, but if you have found someone who is proven to be the very best at that, then it fits they should be awarded in kind. Thus if anyone is recorded to have run faster than this bloke they would have top speed of 99.

It is logical captain.


It's all well and good, but as I said before, players like van persie have apparently got very good 100m records, but it means nothing on the pitch. I guess if we had any footage of him play it'd be easier to judge :|
And the whole bottle thing really doesn't mean anything. Scholes always hits trees from 50-60 yards away when united train. Other players are always going on about how Scholesy will say "you see that tree in the distance? I bet I can hit it dead on" and he does. Beckham did similair things at the 2006 World Cup in the dressing room where he would hit the Clock hung at the otherside of the dressing room repeatedly and only missed something like 1 in 10 also. Things are different on the pitch though as there is pressure amongst many other things involved.
It's obviously hard to make accurate stats for players of this period because there is very little footage available of some of them, in this case it seems none at all. But my only beef with that, is that I'd rather people choose more conservative values for stats they are unsure about. I'm not saying users don't take the classics seriously, but it's safe to say that they don't take them as seriously as modern players, which I guess is fair enough. And I'm not gonna ridicule the whole 'classics are just for a bit of fun' thing either, because of course they are! But I'd just rather they'd be more accurate. Better slightly under-rated than over-rated is what I say anyway :)

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 09, 21:20

I would leave ATT as it is, but I could see him having 97 or 98 for AGG. Still, I repeat that I would increase his RES to at least 94. :P I agree with lowering his DEF.

Balance could see a slight raise. So could Stamina, because his Mentality should probably be slightly lowered. I'd propose something like 83 for STA and 77 for MEN.

TS and ACC should be lowered, like it's already been discussed. AGI, DA, and DS are probably OK. I would maybe lower all three by one point but it's not necessary. I agree with 74 - 76 for TW. Almost everything else is fine.

Except for one thing. Why is his passing so bad? :? I ask that because of him having WF as his secondary position. I can't remember seeing, hearing, or reading that he ever played as a WF, but if he did, I think it seems logical that he would have to be at least a decent passer. Otherwise he would never be given that role. So, I would either increase his passing or remove WF.

One more thing. He ended his career when he was 42, yet he managed to keep an absurd goalscoring ratio. Peyroteo, for instance, left football when he was 32. Just think, if Bican did the same, he would end up having something like 5 goals per game. :lol:

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 10, 04:14

Rubedo. I don't think he was a teamwork minded as say a Joe Cole wideplayer. From what I read he was all about goals and so... if he did play on the wing. I presume it allowed him a little extra space to hit some high gears, as opposed to being swamped and kicked in the middle. But I never saw him, so I can't tell you. Just a theory.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby prosser2k10 » 2010 Jan 10, 14:08

picIs this him :?: if it is I can resize it then it can be added to the first post ;)
EDIT:
One thing I find weird is that he played in the "Wunderteam" of Austria at the 1934 World Cup but he scored only once, yet they reached the semi finals so he surely wasn't this much better than Meazza who scored Two and scored hundreds in Serie A. My question is how well would he have done in the Serie A then :?: . I know you said that the East European Leagues were strong back then but what was the gap between the top teams and the others in the league.

Last edited by prosser2k10 on 2011 May 16, 03:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 10, 15:08

No, that's a picture of Vlastimil Kopecký (as far as I can see). This is a picture of Bican (or at least it should be): http://www.gol.cz/data/image/kanonyri/bicanjosef.jpg

He was only 20 years old in 1934 World Cup (that one goal was decisive goal in 3-2 victory over France). In his prime he had a misfortune of not playing in 1938 WC (because of a clerical error) and after that WWII came.

Danubian school of football was very strong back in those days. In those days, the strongest European competition (as far as I know) was Mitropa Cup and Czechoslovakian, Austrian and Hungarian clubs dominated in that competition (Italians were good also, but they certainly weren't better then Central European clubs):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitropa_Cup

***

Nothing personal, but please don't write your posts like that. Use full stop and try to make your sentences readable (I can't believe I'm writing this to somebody from England...). If you disregard this advice, I'll be forced to delete every post you write in the future.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 10, 22:36

Updated him with all the suggestions and according to some of my recently found info.

1. His secondary position wasn't an outside-left, he was occasionally used as an inside-left. So no dice on passing raise (unless somebody finds info that proves it).

2. Defence: 40<30; Balance: 80>82; Top Speed: 97<93; Shot Technique: 94<92; Technique: 86<85; Mentality/Tenacity: 80<76; Team Work: 70>75.

3. No need for SA reducing (he is 1 point over Dixie Dean). Read the Info and everything will be much clearer.

4. New Cards:

P15: Goal Poacher
S01: Reaction
S03: 1-on-1 Finish

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby Edward Teach » 2010 Jan 11, 08:47

jez wrote:
Edward Teach wrote:I guess this is more a general point than one that directly relates to this bloke, but what's the point of having a statometer that goes up to 99 if you're aren't going to use it for players who are proven to be the very pinnacle in that particular attribute? For example, if you were creating athletes for a similar game you would surely rate Usain Bolt as 99 for top speed as he's the fastest man alive and everyone else would cascade down in kind.

If you were to find a player that could hit ten bottles out of ten off a crossbar then they would surely get 99 for shot accuracy and this bloke 98 and so on.

I'm not advocating the overuse of 99 stats, but if you have found someone who is proven to be the very best at that, then it fits they should be awarded in kind. Thus if anyone is recorded to have run faster than this bloke they would have top speed of 99.

It is logical captain.


It's all well and good, but as I said before, players like van persie have apparently got very good 100m records, but it means nothing on the pitch. I guess if we had any footage of him play it'd be easier to judge :|
And the whole bottle thing really doesn't mean anything. Scholes always hits trees from 50-60 yards away when united train. Other players are always going on about how Scholesy will say "you see that tree in the distance? I bet I can hit it dead on" and he does. Beckham did similair things at the 2006 World Cup in the dressing room where he would hit the Clock hung at the otherside of the dressing room repeatedly and only missed something like 1 in 10 also. Things are different on the pitch though as there is pressure amongst many other things involved.
It's obviously hard to make accurate stats for players of this period because there is very little footage available of some of them, in this case it seems none at all. But my only beef with that, is that I'd rather people choose more conservative values for stats they are unsure about. I'm not saying users don't take the classics seriously, but it's safe to say that they don't take them as seriously as modern players, which I guess is fair enough. And I'm not gonna ridicule the whole 'classics are just for a bit of fun' thing either, because of course they are! But I'd just rather they'd be more accurate. Better slightly under-rated than over-rated is what I say anyway :)


Jez, I take your points and you put them across really well, but I still can't get my head around this idea that a player recorded as being able to run fast won't equate to the pitch in any way. I can't see someone who can run 100m suddenly become a jelly-thighed, wobbly-kneed carthorse as soon as they hit the pitch! I would imagine these stats would be related to what they can do on an empty pitch and things like dribble accuracy and agility and technique would determine how well they can still do them once other players come into the mixer.

With regards the bottle thing and the Scholes stories, aren't these the very stories that one would use to verify a player's attributes? If Scholes is recorded as having been able to do that then his pass accuracy or shot accuracy should be very high too. Especially with a lack of video evidence of older players then this sort of information should be exactly what creators (sounds almost Godly, that!) are looking for to piece together how good these guys were.

Cheers! :D

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 11, 10:37

There are amateur darts players who throw 9 darters every day in practice. When they lose to the top pros in the opens and invitationals they always say "If only I'd bought my practice game". It's one thing doing what Scholes did in training, but playing a 40 yard pass whilst being closed down by snappy midfielders and trying to accurately pick out a moving target who also could be surrounded is not as easy as trying to hit a still tree under no pressure. It's not the same at all. A tree doesn't move and he's not really under pressure.

He was however a fantastic passer and as such has been rated like he should. He's a little genius. But -if- he could do what he did in training in a match as consistently as he does what he currently does and ultimately did in matches then he would be setting up 5 goals per match and would never miss a pass or shot.

In training Emerson is a very tricky player, there is probably no trick he can't pull off and he will even play in goal. Does he do all this in a match? No. So do we give him elastico card? No. ;\ Just like we don't give Scholes the tree card. :D Besides, hitting trees or other hard immovable post like things in a match isn't usually very good anyway! It can actually be rather frustrating.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Rubedo » 2010 Jan 11, 21:13

Alcohomicide wrote:Besides, hitting trees or other hard immovable post like things in a match isn't usually very good anyway! It can actually be rather frustrating.


Partizan has a player of that kind.

And yeah, it can be rather frustrating watching the ball hit it.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Peppino meazza » 2010 Oct 10, 21:47

I think he most TS 97 and Acc99
that becuse he can run 100 meters in 10.8 and this faster than Gento

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Edward Teach » 2010 Nov 17, 15:23

Really trivial question about this chap - how do you pronounce his surname?

Bitsan? Beechan? Bike-an?

Just wondered.

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Nov 17, 17:05

it's straight "c", hence, it's pronounced as "Bitsan", like Šmicer -> "shmitzer".

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby Edward Teach » 2010 Nov 22, 22:45

Great stuff, thanks for that! :D

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby sunnykhandelwal5 » 2012 Jan 21, 04:34

He seems to be so 2-footed.. Why has the side preference been kept at Left? Couldn't he play on the right side?

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1947

Postby math11 » 2012 Feb 23, 01:31

mod edit: read the rules

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Re: Josef BICAN | 1939-1948

Postby tomi77 » 2012 Apr 04, 15:33

I totally agree with jez.

About this, absolutely disagree:
Edward Teach wrote:I guess this is more a general point than one that directly relates to this bloke, but what's the point of having a statometer that goes up to 99 if you're aren't going to use it for players who are proven to be the very pinnacle in that particular attribute? For example, if you were creating athletes for a similar game you would surely rate Usain Bolt as 99 for top speed as he's the fastest man alive and everyone else would cascade down in kind.

If you were to find a player that could hit ten bottles out of ten off a crossbar then they would surely get 99 for shot accuracy and this bloke 98 and so on.

I'm not advocating the overuse of 99 stats, but if you have found someone who is proven to be the very best at that, then it fits they should be awarded in kind. Thus if anyone is recorded to have run faster than this bloke they would have top speed of 99.

It is logical captain.


By this logic, no one deserves for example, 99 for balance, because there is Ronnie Coleman
or 99 for stamina, because there is Patrick Makau, and 99 for a jump - Michael Jordan and so on......
Here it comes to soccer players and comparisons should be made only between them
(btw hardly Usain Bolt will make these achievements on the football field, of course, with their equipment)
I am for more, 99 but of course when they deserve, but it truly is difficult to apply because many of qualities are evaluated subjectively,
but there are qualities in which figures should determine evaluations, for example - Top Speed: where the fastest soccer players in the world,
intercepted with a device are Thierry Henry and Cristiano Ronaldo.
Thus I think. :)

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