Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1931

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Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1931

Postby Jokeer » 2009 Jun 23, 17:57

Name: James Edward "Jimmy" McGrory

Nicknames: "The Human Torpedo" | "Mermaid" | "The Golden Crust"

Image

Club: Celtic
Number: 9
Position: *CF
Nationality: Scottish _sco
Age: 21-27 (26/04/1904)
Era: 1925/1931

Foot: R
Side: B

Height: 168 cm
Weight: -

Attack: 96
Defence: 34
Balance: 89
Stamina: 84
Top Speed: 86
Acceleration: 84
Response: 93
Agility: 76
Dribble Accuracy: 82
Dribble Speed: 80
Short Pass Accuracy: 73
Short Pass Speed: 75
Long Pass Accuracy: 68
Long Pass Speed: 71
Shot Accuracy: 92
Shot Power: 86
Shot Technique: 93
Free Kick Accuracy: 62
Curling: 69
Header: 97
Jump: 90
Technique: 79
Aggression: 97
Mentality/Tenacity: 90
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 72

Injury Tolerance: B
Form/Condition/Fitness: 6
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6
Consistency: 8
Growth type: Early/Lasting

CARDS:
P15: Goal Poacher
S03: 1-on-1 Finish
S05: 1-touch Play

SPECIAL ABILITIES:
*Positioning
*Scoring
*1-1 Scoring
*Lines
*1-Touch Pass

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded


INFO:

He is regarded as a legend at Celtic, who he managed for 20 years, and as one of the greatest goalscorers in the history of the game.

Although he was only 5 ft 6 in, he was nicknamed the "Mermaid" for his heading abilities and in his career he was able to score 550 goals, the highest tally in British football history.

Over the course of his career, he amassed 550 goals in first-class matches, including 410 goals in 408 league games, making him the most prolific scorer in British football history.


HONOURS:

Club
Celtic:
Scottish League: 1926, 1936
Scottish Cup: 1925, 1927, 1931, 1933, 1937
445 appearances / 472 goals

Individual
Top League goalscorer in Europe: 1927, 1936


ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://www.kerrydalestreet.com/page/McGrory,+Jimmy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_mcgrory

Last edited by Jokeer on 2010 Feb 19, 13:35, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Jokeer » 2009 Jun 23, 18:43

Couldn't find any video evidence so did a lot of reading and produced the above. Here's some of my reasoning if anyone wants to discuss:

ATT 96 : " the deadliest centre forward in football "
" the most feared attacker in the game "

BB 94 : " the barrell chested forward was an immensly strong and forceful attacker "

SA, SP & ST with *Middle Shooting : " his skill with the ball at his feet was immense. McGrory could score from any angle and distance "

Heading Game : " his ability to score with his head was unrivalled "
" he was nicknamed the « Mermaid » for his heading abilities "

Injury Tolerance B : " his committed play meant he reguarly suffered a broken nose and in one match he even broke his jaw after taking a boot to the face "
" such injuries were all part of the game to the man they called « the Human Torpedo » "

Mentality 99 : " he was prepared to take whatever knocks came his way in search of a goal "

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 23, 20:31

Zidane and many others describe Gerrard as the most complete player in the world. Many say he is a better finisher than most strikers, that his engine is superior to all and that he's fast as a gazel. Does this mean we give him 90 acceleration, 88 SA and 99 mentality? No.

Kaká is described as the "best Brazillian since Pelé" does that make him better than Zico?

"For many years Patrick was the most complete midfielder in the world and now that award must go to Gerrard."

Zidane, who has recently been linked with a return to the Bernabeu to take on a consultant's role, insisted that Gerrard's influence on the rest of the squad is what makes him a true legend at Anfield. Taking nothing away from his talent as a player the Frenchman added: "No team will be successful without a heartbeat and you can see Gerrard is that heartbeat.

"He has great passing ability, can tackle and scores goals, but most importantly he gives the players around him confidence and belief. You can't learn that – players like him are just born with that presence." - Zidane.

"Sometimes you have a player like Gerrard. For me, for the last five years Gerrard has been the best player in the world. - Pelé

Hiddink says he's the best in the league. What will all this praise count for in the future, though? Kenny Dalglish says he's our best ever, does that mean 99 in everything? It's a really difficult way to rate a player just through praise.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Jokeer » 2009 Jun 23, 20:44

So, what's your suggestions ?

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 23, 20:49

Honestly? I haven't a clue. He could have been Superman, but I'll never know. All I can do is doubt that he was so far ahead of David Villa, todays best finisher. Even those single red points equal 3-4 yellows.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Brezza » 2009 Jun 23, 20:59

Shooting should stay imo, he is the all time leading British goalscorer afterall.

Id compare him with Dixie Dean, similar sort of players, Dixie being far more technical. Players like Dean and Billy Liddell were described as barrell chested but have around 89/90 so Id put him around that sort of bracket 94 looks too much.

Mentality is over the top if your basing it on just that one quote, it isn't just about determination or taking knocks but their overall work rate how well players come back and chase palyers down and i doubt he was a Tevez like hound.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby zingo » 2009 Jun 24, 20:05

If he's 168cm tall, I dont think he really deserves 94 for Body Balance, he may have been strong but tht wud just be unreal. I'd say probably 88 would be more reasonable. Just my opinion though.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 25, 13:16

You're ridiculous Brezza. :lol: Gerd Muller was the highest scorer at the world cup for a long time, but did that make him as better finisher than Van Nistelrooy? Look at this guys positional stats.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jun 27, 14:52

Alcohomicide
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:16 pm

Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

You're ridiculous Brezza. :lol: Gerd Muller was the highest scorer at the world cup for a long time, but did that make him as better finisher than Van Nistelrooy? Look at this guys positional stats.


Sorry mate, but what's "ridicules" to me, is comparing this guy (550 goals, all time leading British goal scorer), and other history all-time greats, to David Villa! :lol:

with all due respect, who the fu#k is Villa compared to these guys in the eyes of football history? - a fu#king side note... :shock:

Don't get me wrong, I do think that Villa is undoubtedly one of the best today's Cf's, but I think that says more bout the general level of today's Cf's quality, rather than Villa (not) outstanding ability.

and regarding your example bout Gerrard - Gerrard is truly one of this decade (and all-time..) football greats, alongside with Ronaldinho, kaka, and C. Ronaldo imo, so it's a bad example if you're trying to show how praise is not good enough to base stats on (though ofc it is).

Cheers.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Classical » 2009 Jun 29, 11:15

410 goals in 408 league games, making him the most prolific scorer in British football history.


This is quite an average. Nowadays only Jardel could claim something like that, 1/1 goal ratio. And even if old players we have to guess, a guy who can play more than 400 games always scoring must be quite a player, at least comparing with the ones he was playing with.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 30, 13:55

Look - FOOTIE WAS NOT THE SAME.

I don't care if he scored 800 goals on every cow patch in Europe - he's not better than David Villa and I'd bet my testicles on it. /End. Footie evolved. Deny it all you want, but it happened.

You missed the point of my post about quotes, because you were too busy insulting me - in 50-60 years everyone will read these quotes and think Gerrard was better than he was. He will be given stats that make Duncan Edwards look rubbish. He will. Believe me.

I don't care about scoring records, honestly. 50 goals in the Prem today is far more impressive than 4-500 back then. FAR MORE. From that era there are millions of players who scored hundreds of goals, and are any of them better than Villa? Not im my opinion, no. I wouldn't have a single one of them over Torres.

So don't try proving it with useless quotes, because for every quote you have about how omnipotent he was I have another to say that Steve Gerrard is the best player in the world. (Which he absolutely isn't)

EDIT - Oh, and if you can prove how any of those goals used more placement (SA) than Villa that'd be nice. But I guess all you have is a book saying "It was totally in the corner, I promise!"

"He was a behemoth. I know I can't prove it but He once kicked a ball through an alligator that was made of steel." they're lying fucks. He would have been eaten alive by a modern defence.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Classical » 2009 Jun 30, 14:40

But if he played today, wouldn't he get the chance to evolve from youth teams of big well organized clubs, to train in natural greens, to have good coachs, a real physical training schedule and all those other details that changed amateurs to pros?

You see, if you don't take this is mind of course his stats would be worse, Far worse, like 73 at SA and probably 81 at header. But at that time he probably deserved the stats he currently has or at least something close.

It is always the same issue of comparing old to new players. Why don't you try to compare a player against the ones he played with and against?

It is always a matter of proportion (I keep on saying this all the times...).

And if you take a look at most of the classics, they were made using this logic and not yours. This is a fact, not an opinion.

I am entering this discussion only by the concept attached to it (classic players stats making) and not the focused player, who I must confess I didn't hear of him before.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jun 30, 16:03

First of all, if I offended you in any way, I apologize mate, that wasn't my intention. I assure you I have the up most respect for you my friend, & I think you contribute a lot to this site with your knowledge, observations, & of course, your criticism. We need that critic voice here, especially in the classic section, and more so as we go back in time, and can relay solely on book quotes – it's easy to get carried away with it. + I must say that I extremely enjoy our little "clashes" once in a while, as I think that they are very interesting & fertilizing, more than once you managed to change my opinion about one thing or another, but that doesn't mean that we always have to agree right? ;) Where's the fun in that? :P

Now that we got that out of the way, back to topic, Ill guess that this time, we'll just have to agree to disagree (again.. :D ).

And to comment your post:

Alcohomicide wrote:

Look - FOOTIE WAS NOT THE SAME


– Totally agree, and still.


Alcohomicide wrote:

I don't care if he scored 800 goals on every cow patch in Europe - he's not better than David Villa and I'd bet my testicles on it.


- I wouldn't be in such a harry to put my friends on the line like that. :lol:


Alcohomicide wrote:

From that era there are millions of players who scored hundreds of goals.


- Ahh, are you sure that number is right? :? Just try to find how many players scored over 500 goals (in any frame, in history) and see with how many you come up with… ;)

I understood your point about quotes very well, and I agree that they are more often deceptive, but I still think that Gerard specifically is a bad example for that, cause he is truly one of the greatest 50-50 MF's that the game ever had. His current stats reflect that very well, so quite possibly the future stat makers will make him one hell of a player – like he is (in reality & in PESTD). Can't really tell if they'll make Duncan Edwards look rubbish or not, but let it be their task, & let's focus in ours. :P

Other than that, as always in ancient history players, this whole debate is extremely hypothetical, & subjective. Ofc I can't prove how many of those goals used better placement than Villa – there weren’t any video cameras back then :lol: , but What I can tell you is this :P :

550 goals, all time leading British goal scorer.


Sorry mate, but imo that’s good enough, I can accept though that for you, it isn’t.

Cheers. :)

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Classical » 2009 Jun 30, 16:12

With diplomacy ans respect we can always reach, if not an agreement, at least the perception of other's opinions.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 30, 16:15

I must point out that I said hundreds of goals, which basically means 100-200-300. ;)

And I think you'll find someone back in the 30's/40's managed a whopping 1000. :) He didn't play in England, but that's not the point.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jun 30, 16:30

Hundreds mean 200-300... ;) :mrgreen:

1000 goels?! :o (and not Pele... :P ) who the fu#k is he? and how come you/we dont know his name??

Edit - Ohh, you mean Wilimowski?

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 30, 16:40

Nope. And I was wrong, there are two.

30's - Josef Bican, who according topeople I know was faster than C. Ronaldo!

40's - Franz Binder.

They both allegedly scored over 1000 career goals and apparently were gods and all of those other stupid quotes and compliments. :lol:

So yeah, goal records from such era's mean very little to me. ;)

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jun 30, 17:09

Ohh, and there's ofc Arthur Friedenreich with his alleged 1239/1329 goals (we already got to four... :P ).

I can understand how this doesn't mean much to you, but apparently it means something to some of the stat makers in the site ;) :

Arthur Friedenreich:

Shot Accuracy: 97
Shot Power: 83
Shot Technique: 90

Josef Bican:

Shot Accuracy: 96
Shot Power: 85
Shot Technique: 94

Ernest Wilimowski:

Shot Accuracy: 95
Shot Power: 84
Shot Technique: 92

Don't believe we (still.. :P ) have Binder here, but I'd imagine that if we did, he would probably have similar stats as well.

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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 Jun 30, 17:28

According to bullshit Bican only missed 1 out of every 20 chances he had and his total was closer to 5,000 which another 1000 goal player already mentioned said of 'Pepi' as Pelé was nearing his 1,000. He allegedly ran 100 meters in a faster time than most Olympic Sprinters of that era. (Which was like 10.5-11 seconds) and could control the ball above his head with his foot poifectly without jumping. :lol: But then every player I read about back then was a God. "He sank a cruise ship by looking at it" "He had hidden laser beams in his shorts" "He was as strong as Adriano and agile as el diego" People lie about their friends...

If I was a professional football player for United, I doubt you'd see me in the press telling people that Berbatov is lazy or doesn't try as hard as other players. I would say... "He has majestic technique. It's beautiful, like a swan when he controls the ball and pivots effortlessly. He's -So- strong too!" and 70 years later you have a 98 BB player with 97 Technique and 94 agility.

And that's where the bullshit starts overpower logic. :) You see what I'm getting at?

Even today people say Gerrard is laser accurate... and he's not. He's just accurate. He's a great shooter, great passer but he doesn't -exactly- place the ball where he wants due to the fact he has power and technique. He even admits he aims at the keeper with long shots because he knows the power and technique will make the ball move. We don't see him very often accurately curl the ball into the top corner like Juninho or Basler, but no one will care because they will say "Look at his goal record for that era". So you will have him at over 85 SA which puts him on a par with todays best forwards. You will see 90 BB because people won't talk about how he likes to go down, we'll only see the good bits of his strength, we'll see mighty FKA and higher dribbling than he deserves and you will get a player who is even more world class in all areas and it will be almost like a Super-super-dooper Super-Stevie.

Zidane considered the best player of his era, Pelé the best player of all time have said, conclusively that Gerrard is the best player in the world. ...Should we believe them, or use the logic that's allowed us to rate him more accurately than say... Duncan Edwards.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

Postby sencesor » 2009 Jun 30, 19:11

Alcohomicide
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:28 pm

Re: Jimmy McGRORY | 1925-1926

According to bullshit...


:lol:

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