OLD GEN Attributes Explained discussion

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jurgens
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OLD GEN Attributes Explained discussion

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jun 10, 11:13

This is not 100% complete. I didn't do mentality indepth as some people seem to disagree with what it does, same as jump. I explained the main things, but didn't go into confusing details. This doesn't seem like much, but this took 3 hours working together with another person explaining to them stats and how they work (someone whos doesn't know anything about football), and trying to work to sum everything up into short and precise explanations. I'm going to clean this thread of things I deem unessacry and confusing... agin not 100% finished.

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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby tuco55 » 2012 Jun 10, 11:22

Nice work Jurgens. Maybe I am being dumb, but where is Mentality ? I can't see it there.

We just need some figures to judge against now. 8-)
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby Korinov » 2012 Jun 10, 11:31

Regarding Response, I'd include a warning about the fact that it can be -sometimes- counter-productive in the case of defenders, since them being aggresive and rushing to the midfield to intercept a ball can become disastrous if they fail to win it and the opposition team continues the attack... with a defender completely out of position and leaving the defensive line in shambles.
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DEF has nothing to do with positioning.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jun 10, 11:32

added mentality, it's bare minimum explanation right now as we don't have a global consensus.. yet. I'm working on explaining the scales.. and examples of sets that are in the new standard, gonna make more threads. Will take awhile though, it's a lot of work :(
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby čale » 2012 Jun 10, 11:35

@Korinov

but that's where the DEF stat jumps in, am i not right? i mean, if a player has high DEF and high RES judging by his high DEF he'll be able to pick the correct time to surge forward, but if he has low DEF and high RES he'll do it on a constant basis and THEN exposing his backline.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby čale » 2012 Jun 10, 11:40

added the "Special Abilities Explanations" as well.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby jurgens » 2012 Jun 10, 11:59

čale wrote:@Korinov

but that's where the DEF stat jumps in, am i not right? i mean, if a player has high DEF and high RES judging by his high DEF he'll be able to pick the correct time to surge forward, but if he has low DEF and high RES he'll do it on a constant basis and THEN exposing his backline.



they still do it all the time with high def.. t.silva does it so much. it's a double edged sword
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby čale » 2012 Jun 10, 12:01

of course it is, but given that he has high DEF he'll pick the correct timing and will probably succeed in it while the other guy with low DEF won't be as successful as the first one.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby Kerry » 2012 Jun 10, 12:25

I think you should add that Shot Technique have an effect not only from awkward angles and positions, but also first-time volleys and acrobatics. Just to make things clear.

And forgive me for this but, you spelled Dribble Accuracy wrong. I'm sorry :P Just want to make things tidy and neat.
EDIT: Fantastic work btw 8-) If you need help in the near future I can help
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby Akiak » 2012 Jun 11, 10:41

Great job, this is a step in the right direction. But I have a few doubts for a couple of stats:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Swerve affects not only free kicks and corners, but also crosses. We've used this criteria for players like Manfred Kaltz and his banana crosses, and from my playing experience I think it's true.

Another one is technique. I've noticed plenty of times that players with high TEC are much more comfortable at playing passes from awkward angles. I've done a few quick tests on the Wii version (where you can place passes wherever you want) using two players with red SPA, but one had 95 TEC and the other had 65. The first player almost always got the pass in the right spot, no matter how weird the angle was. He played more heel passes, and sometimes he even used his chest or his knee. The other player always had to turn around to pass the ball behind him, and this often resulted in mis-placed passes despite his red SPA.
I guess you could consider this a consequence of having a good or bad first touch, but I think it should be specified in the description.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby čale » 2012 Jun 11, 11:47

oh i forgot to say that TECH has a somewhat massive impact on lobs, try doing a lob with a player with SA 90 ST 90 and TECH 70 and then the same player with just TECH 90 as well.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby Korinov » 2012 Jun 11, 12:18

čale wrote:of course it is, but given that he has high DEF he'll pick the correct timing and will probably succeed in it while the other guy with low DEF won't be as successful as the first one.


I don't really think DEF influences their timing so much... it just makes the player more likely to win the ball since he'll probably do the tackle/interception better. I'd rather believe TW influences more the timing issue, although I'm not sure about it.
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DEF has nothing to do with positioning.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby furymaker » 2012 Jun 11, 12:22

also you should add TW for SMF works in way that players with higher TW are moving more towards the centre of the field , also when defending they are just standing in the circle :)
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby Gugu » 2012 Jul 24, 17:20

Thanks for this jurgens ;)
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby MikadoRyugamine » 2012 Jul 30, 03:44

Will midfielders with a high response stat become proficient at both making interceptions, collecting loose balls defensively, and goal poaching and collecting loose balls offensively? Or is there a way to make a midfielder have good responses defensively with bad responses offensively, and vice versa?
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby bitz » 2012 Jul 30, 07:04

MikadoRyugamine wrote:Will midfielders with a high response stat become proficient at both making interceptions, collecting loose balls defensively, and goal poaching and collecting loose balls offensively? Or is there a way to make a midfielder have good responses defensively with bad responses offensively, and vice versa?


Things like Attack/Defense values and special abilities dictate where Response is applied. A midfielder with ATT<DEF and high response will be more proficient at collecting loose balls defensively and the opposite. *Enforcer will enhance the players interceptions in the central areas and *Box to box will make him intercept more upfront. You get the idea.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby MikadoRyugamine » 2012 Aug 01, 05:54

Thanks for the help, bitz.
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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby jurgens » 2012 Aug 22, 03:11

Good example of TW I'd say

WATCH XAVI. Iniesta plays a miss-pass that Dani Alves barely keeps in. Dani is now in a situation where he could potentially lose possession, xavi sees this and abandons his normal field position to run out and give Dani Alves a passing option to maintain possession.
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READ PLEASE!

Postby čale » 2012 Sep 23, 12:16

sorry for the "ugly" name but i thought that this was somewhat important so i wanted to get as many opinions on the issue as possible.

a few changes in explanations regarding a couple of stats in PES 13:

Attack - As new abilities have been added to the PES series, the Attack rating - once an umbrella attribute (??) that represented many different player characteristics - has decreased in importance in PES 2008, it's primary function is as an indicator of how well an attacker can resist the attention of his markers.

Defence - The higher the stat is the better and faster the player is at performing challenges and sliding tackles. With the latter, it also has an influence on how quickly a player can get to his feet.

Explosive Power - Indicates a players agility and mobility. Agility determines how quickly a player performs kicks, tricks and general movements. The higher it is, the more rapidly he will perform them. This is especially noticeable with first-time kicks and passes.

Response - This is a very important attribute. Response indicates how quickly a player thinks: players with high levels will collect more loose balls, intercept more passes, and getting into positions for shots and headers. For CPU-controlled players (including goalkeepers) this can be said to show how fast a players' reflexes are.

Shot Accuracy - If a player makes a good, clean connection with the ball while making an attempt on goal, his Shot Accuracy influences how precise his aim will be.

Technique - Technique determines how well a player can trap and control the ball; it's also taken into account when a player makes a first-time pass or performs certain tricks. It also has a less obvious function: the higher it is the more accomplished a player will be at performing chipped shots.

Mentality - Mentality indicates a players commitment and drive. When his Stamina level is depleted, a player with a high Mentality level will be much more likely to maintain his general level of dedication that a similarly exhausted player with a low Mentality rating. The overall impact of Stamina loss on abilities is also reduced.

it seems that they've finally given us better explanations for these stats since the definition changes with the new-gen. it's also interesting how we've only been using 1 out of 4 things while rating TECH.
Also it seems that ST is now primarily dependent on the players' body position during a shot.
I'm a bit confused by the EP explanation tbh...i've just seen it and felt it as "burst" so far...
Fixer wrote:No wonder there's a 'penetration' stat, all of them players look like rapists

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Re: Attributes Explained

Postby adieet » 2012 Sep 23, 12:35

Piggyback ?
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