vickingo_73

vickingo_73

Postby Nrby » 2012 Mar 19, 12:16

first of all I want to put up the list of people that can see this

jurgens
Mr. Evans
Paddy
s-cobar
tuco55

Basilio
Interist
jorgecavs

Kruger13
MaxPower

xeneize


as you can see vickingo_73 is not included ... I want to hear unfiltered opinions on him and his work ... once a conclusion has been reached this thread will be published ... but I don't want page long posts

my view is that he dose to much ... just look at the Lower Argentine leagues ... what the hell do we need that many players from the 3rd Argentine league ... I appreciate his work but he is way to enthusiastic and goes over the top ... see the Turkish league in the short period he had control over it ... he asked for the job just to implement the new system where first posts are auto-generated ... but he felt the need to change a few things anyway ... this is why clearly form my point of view he will not get a global mod job ... that clear ... maybe quite the opposite he might be removed as a mod all together

rather than to have someone do way to much I prefer users that stick to some decent limits

I want to hear solutions as it's clear that he isn't changing much ... besides he kind of keeps spamming the forum and some global mods and admins with unnecessary long discussions and excuses

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby s-cobar » 2012 Mar 19, 13:14

Yesterday I spoke with Norbert, because this thing has to have an end. We need to find a solution to end this situation. I get every day private news or news on Facebook by victor, where it's always about the same topic. I do not want to employ the whole time with it. it is annoying -. I thought everything would be resolved. But this theme is presented again and again. most of the private message from himself, who answered albo jurgens yesterday and in the mod section, I also got but I'm not discussed it. to him it's probably mostly about why he has not become a global mod. This forum is on a good way currently being further developed and we discuss topics that are not necessary. what the question really is how we can teach Victor, his enthusiasm on the right points to guide and not to work against other moderators. The question is whether we have acted wrongly or if there is anything that we can make it easier at the end or whether it may not be worn more than mod. We must all find a solution in all, for all involved and this is the best forum. Therefore, it is also interesting to know how to assess the situation in South America to use the whole, since they may

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Kruger13 » 2012 Mar 19, 14:49

Is hard to me say something about it because tbh my labour in Conmebol is very poor so since i took serious the site and became in a active member just passed 2-3 months and i didn't know the "Turkish mess". So before writing something i always want to know about, it is really hard to see me posting in a topic i don't know or not familiar. So, i took the decision to go previous pages and return and read about Victor Turkish mess.

About Victor i have to say, that he was always friendly with me and very helpful, at the beginning i asked always for his help because was the unique mod in South America so was like more familiar. In that aspect he was really really nice. Only good words for him, but to be a mod you have to be good in many aspects not just one and it seems that his overenthusiastic (without bad intentions) makes him take bad decisions, so there is where problem really is.

Talking about his work, i lost interest in Argentinean League like 2 years ago, low level and to much fights kills it, so is hard to give an opinion about his ability at stat making, but he also make some sets from south american players and i have to say that they are good, well knowledge, not perfect but quality ones (i think no one can make a 100% accurate set because variety of opinions, point of views, others).

About talking behind jurgens or Albo backs, isn't correct but he feels that was the correct way to clear or defend himself because we all know the hard to is discussing against jurgens, so continue posting in the thread wont went to anywhere, but maybe it wasn't an intelligent decision, you can check Reus or Kroos thread and see that i also argue against jurgens but when it ends it ends, nothing personal and it was for the best of PSD , that is what at the end matters.

I conclude that Victor isn't a bad person or bad intentional but his excess of enthusiastic makes him to take wrong decisions. Also know that i have nothing pro or against jurgens, victor or any other member, i respect each of them and a criticise is always welcome. Hope that this help to us to take the best decision for PSD.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 19, 15:57

I'm pretty close and filled in to what Victor has been doing around these boards. I've tried to ignore what he did in the turkish league and give him another chance. But after watching his actions over the last few months in the AFA, I belive he was never deserving of that chance. The amount of times I've seen him silence peoples opinions through post deletion or topic lock is really absurd. Make no mistake, that place was run like a dictatorship.

Really, after the Turkish job, things should have been very clear. I was literally astonished by the fact that he would lie so blatantly to us... over and over and over even after being asked to stop. Just to give you an idea of what he did. There was a young player in the league, hasn't really played at all. This was a player made by ali. He +20 -10 +2/3/-4 all his stats so that the player was completly unrecognisable. He did this after he was told to stop editing stats.

A few months ago, Albo recommended jorgecavs as a mod for the AFA commending him for a his work. Anyone who knows jorgecavs knows he is a pretty good poster, some problems here and there, but he puts a lot of effort into his posts.. even colors the font. I hope you've all seen the post I've made in mod suggestions thread with screens of what happened. Victor started mass deleting everything jorgecavs has ever done. Imagine if your work, everything you've done on this board was just deleted. Thats what he was attempting to do to jorgecavs, delete everything he had ever wrote. And he did manage to delete 28 pages worth of posts. His ability to delete posts was removed before it went any further.

Have you ever noticed how insistent Victor is on having julgui out of his league, same with manolo? It's kinda of strange. Like he doesn't want any help, he wasn'ts the league all to himself. Is it any wonder that after being suggested for a mod jorgecavs work in the league started to disappear?

These sort of actions aren't e excusable. After what he did in the Turkish league he should have been gone. After what he did to jorgecavs and the rest of the AFA there shouldn't even be any discussion. You've got to ask yourself, why would anyone do that to another member? Why would anyone do that to the Turkish league? Victor does not really care about PSD. He cares about personal acclaim. That's why it meant nothing to him that he destroy thousands of posts of another member. Thats why he randomly stat'd the t Turkish league, as he believed it would make it looks as though he was doing a tone of work.. just randomly assigning stats here and there.

Then to top it off the constant lies and deceit to our faces about his actions are really just, the lowest of the low. Victor will continue to do things like this until he is caught. Then he will apologize, to try and rectify the situation.
I'm honestly sick of this guy behaving like this. Some shouldn't have power. Victor has done things time and time again to prove this. This madness needs to end.
If he cares about this board, he can still contribute to it without a blue name. There are other people who can do his job, without all the bullshit.

I understand that some don't want to say a bad word about another, and I can respect that. But certain thing's can't just be swept under the rug and ignored because someone's a nice guy or your friend. There has been some very very bad things done in this board by victor and to me it's time it came to an end.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Basilio » 2012 Mar 19, 17:52

First of all i want to say i trully admire jurgens and albo courage and honesty for what concerns to this forum, now i've never felt victor trully deserves this moderator power... However he have always been the most open for changes from AFA, and surely ( something i agree with him ) he is "in his best moment as statmaker"( although he is not perfect at all imo ), tbh i do see him above everyone in AFA. He does contributes to the forum... a lot, that means tranfers, updates, help to new mod's, keeping alive his section, etc.. He does overall a good work to my eyes, though he does go crazy many times.

Btw he also always speaks about how conmebol dies and how he have may notes and players not created, but..he never posts them, weird :? I dont know what he wants, probably some power to not having to me or interist to approve ? Please no

Now something i want it to say since a while, I WOULD NEVER LIKE HIM TOUCHING CONMEBOL PLAYERS, thats what im mostly afraid of, i wouldnt like him to 'standarize' or stuff like that, that's why i suggested Interist as a mod, he is the only one that i'd agree with power on conmebol, but never victor. I dont like him as global mod either, that could be the worst thing that happens to the forum, him in charge of my section ? God no!

To conclude, i understand the reason for the possibility of him abandoning the moderatorship, atm we have harmony, unity within the moderators, we all fight for the same cause, but this mishap can cause serious problems... We surely dont want him causing trouble being moderator, not in the forum not in mod section, nor we'd like another apologize from him, because we know those are worth nothing. I'll say i agree with taking him out of the "team" of moderators, he have done enough to not deserving powers, however i predict AFA falling apart without him :( So im not sure

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby s-cobar » 2012 Mar 19, 18:15

just a question - did ever got an explantions why he don´t become a globald mod?

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby KeyserSoze » 2012 Mar 19, 20:06

I must say I agree with kruger's point of view, in the sense that I don't have any problems against Víctor per se; in fact, he highly favoured my election as mod, something I appreciate actually.

However, considering the facts you are relating, you have no choice but to remove him from the mod staff. I can understand if someone makes a mistakes and then he apologizes, but if this is something frequent, then you know what you have to do in order to keep things in the right way.

As kruger mentioned, Víctor's excess of enthusiasm has made him commit many fails. If he has attacked other mods at their backs, well, that's another strong argument to remove his mod status.

Summarizing, just do what you have to do if you feel it's for good.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Mr. Evans » 2012 Mar 19, 22:11

I personally don't have any problems with Victor but if what jurgens says is true, than I guess there's no other option but to remove him from the mods.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby xeneize » 2012 Mar 19, 23:23

well, what can i say? like said some people, Victor is a really good person, and helped me when i started here in PSD, he helped me by facebook or by PM's with all here but...
his "excess of enthusiasm" (like said Kruger and Maxpower) is a problems nowadays. Also is true that about he cares about personal acclaim like said Jurgens (but the problem with jorgecavs was for other reasons IMO, and here is not the palce to talk about it maybe)
about his "personal acclaim", that's 100% true, also he asked me to comment in his threads and put good comments about him (something like put his sets are good for example... i mean, WTF? thats an stupidity, how a member can ask for that, or something similar) also asked me for "defend" him in some discussion (another things who i think is wrong, at least to me)

about his work in AFA, sincerelly, i see he was better a couple of time back, when the league had more active members, him (with a better attitude in that time), JULGUI (somebody knows what happened to him?), jorge (jorgecavs) and me (when i commented mnore time in PSD)
now, looks like the sets are just like he want, and without consensus in some players...

and about the 3rd Argentine league, that was REALLY unnecessary, i mean, what's the finality of that?

what you ahve in mind to AFA? i talk about Mod, is difficult to find some member in AFA with the necessary knowledge to do that work


to know, he want to be a global mod? if i remember well he said he don't have time to do his job in AFA (and i see him less time here tbh), how is going to have time to be a global mod if he don't ahve it for AFA?

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Nrby » 2012 Mar 20, 02:43

as it is clear that we are heading in a direction where Victor might not be the mod of the AFA anymore ... I would like to hear alternatives for someone who would take his place

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Diego » 2012 Mar 20, 02:52

A few months ago, Albo recommended jorgecavs as a mod for the AFA commending him for a his work. Anyone who knows jorgecavs knows he is a pretty good poster, some problems here and there, but he puts a lot of effort into his posts.. even colors the font. I hope you've all seen the post I've made in mod suggestions thread with screens of what happened. Victor started mass deleting everything jorgecavs has ever done. Imagine if your work, everything you've done on this board was just deleted. Thats what he was attempting to do to jorgecavs, delete everything he had ever wrote. And he did manage to delete 28 pages worth of posts. His ability to delete posts was removed before it went any further.

Ehh, i feel there's a slight misunderstood of what happened, but since i havent seen that post, guess i am not seeing the whole picture of what you mean.
Have you ever noticed how insistent Victor is on having julgui out of his league, same with manolo? It's kinda of strange. Like he doesn't want any help, he wasn'ts the league all to himself. Is it any wonder that after being suggested for a mod jorgecavs work in the league started to disappear?

Xeneize posts count also decreased, victor used to be on 10000's too, is it any wonder that he said that he was goin to delete unnescesary posts, things on spanish, off topic, post that didnt made sense, etc., and to be fair that is something we all know isnt uncommon there on afa, i tell you what happened after many erased messages? "Someone" came complaining, not about his work being erased but being pissed of because of his post counter being lower nothing else, you can just count with mine and xeneize word though as topics was on spanish and after that issue erased (victor did answer btw), not like i am defending him, but ... Fair play.
manolo

Come on, would you blame him for doing that? He was a bad mod, or.. Not the indicate if you wanna see it that way, let alone those replies to basilio, underrating countless amount of player, showing some really odd demostrations of knowledge, saying things like recoba cant be only 2 points under kaka :roll: wtf, he just came moved players and updated a couple of players with pkke sets (bonet) and then he just fucked off to that site where he is seen as somekind of god statsmaking, for works such as chuchus stats that were the same of here prior to your set. Not to mention how he didnt ever commented on afa. I am even glad he isnt here, even quite similar to victor on that of being a bit too "psd minded", one of the main factor of conmebol lower standart on everything.

He cares about personal acclaim. That's why it meant nothing to him that he destroy thousands of posts of another member. Thats why he randomly stat'd the t Turkish league, as he believed it would make it looks as though he was doing a tone of work.. just randomly assigning stats here and there.

Could be, i wont avoid the fact that he looks, hate to say it but, hypocrite at times, but he is not a bad person by any means really, he cares what other think from him, a lot it seems, and that drive him to do those overenthusiastic things. that he needs to cool it off , accept and LEARN that he can be wrong, dont be "terco", and that at times if you dont have something useful to say it's better not To say nothing (paddy mc ex),and if we wanna see a change maybe:

If he cares about this board, he can still contribute to it without a blue name.

Could be a good test, making him earn his place again would give a lesson (in case he cares, something i believe) But ...

There are other people who can do his job, without all the bullshit.

Three letters: who? Basilio is right, if he isnt mod afa will fall apart. that's the question now

Having said that i'd say that i am fine with what you see fit, we see the pros and cons just on the last 4 sentences.
My view about the issue mainly from the outside of the volcano.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby xeneize » 2012 Mar 20, 03:00

Interist wrote:
manolo

Come on, would you blame him for doing that? He was a bad mod, or.. Not the indicate if you wanna see it that way, let alone those replies to basilio, underrating countless amount of player, showing some really odd demostrations of knowledge, saying things like recoba cant be only 2 points under kaka :roll: wtf, he just came moved players and updated a couple of players with pkke sets (bonet) and then he just fucked off to that site where he is seen as somekind of god statsmaking, for works such as chuchus stats that were the same of here prior to your set. Not to mention how he didnt ever commented on afa. I am even glad he isnt here, even quite similar to victor on that of being a bit too "psd minded", one of the main factor of conmebol lower standart on everything.

that's right, manolo was not the indicated to do that function, he only updated some player or moved other, nothing more, also he never was a "fridnly" mod IMO, never helped other member as i listened
also i think he almost never followed AFA league like can do Jorge or me (or Julgui in his time)

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 20, 03:24

Ehh, i feel there's a slight misunderstood of what happened, but since i havent seen that post, guess i am not seeing the whole picture of what you mean.


As you said, you havn't seen the full post. Theres no misunderstanding, I'm fully aware of the guise he used to attempt to pull this stunt off.
I've recived PM's from a member, with him telling me that victor was trying to delete his "existence". He even said it's too late, all my work is gone, soon there will be nothing left, then linked me to some other pes forum saying he had gone there instead. And this isn't the only person who had a problem with what he had done.


is it any wonder that he said that he was goin to delete unnescesary posts, things on spanish, off topic, post that didnt made sense, etc


Victors idea of unnecessary could be and was absolutely anything. It's really not an uncommon thing to see people making normal comments in the AFA and victor saying poor things about their posts, reporting it to the mods or deleting it.
And even if it was just for "unnecessary" posts. He doesn't have that right to mass prune years... literally years of posts. Some posts he deleted were made before he was even on PSD. I rember specifically some good posts in Riquelmes thread (from really far back) deleted, and for what reason? Because they were off topic or in spanish? Of course not.
The amount of posts he deleted was hardly just for spanish and off topic posts, it was for good posts. I've seen the topics, there was spam here and there, of course. But there was good posts in the section, and tones of it was just deleted, hundreds and hundreds of posts. Not to mention, no mod even has the right to do that.

And I agree manolo was a bad mod. But julgui wasn't, though he had a lot of problems.


Three letters: who? Basilio is right, if he isnt mod afa will fall apart. that's the question now


There was a poster in the AFA before victor came along. jorgcavs, but victors dictatorial attitude caused him to leave. I personally contacted him and asked him to come back as he was a good poster, but he seems to be having constant problems with victor. jorg isn't the only one who's left due to victor. If victor was removed I'm sure jorg could handle his job. Not to mention gotta is an excellent poster. xenezie is also a good poster in the AFA. More users can always step up and become better too. Manchester city or something (I dunno his name) also seems to be becoming a better poster. We also have 4 active super mods who are capable of assisting in updates.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 20, 03:33

Before I forget, juan92 has become a good stats maker. Panza and Christiancito also have some good ideas, the AFA has plenty of potential. But jorg is the best statsmaker and has the most e experience by far.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby s-cobar » 2012 Mar 20, 08:51

in the past by the afa wa shandled by maxi and Jason.when jason did his first break, I got the chance to be a mod in the afa. I'm glad that made ​​at the time because I very much Argentinian league has seen. After some time I got the chance to become a global mod and thus became my time in the afa very low. it was about to add another mod in the afa next to maxi. Jorge was my first choice, what he did with velez sarsfield was great. victor had a lot of stats and they were also acceptable. However, I was closer to jorge. was also the fact that Victor was very closely with julgui victor and at that time I really had my problems with julgui. matter. In the end it was both, manolo and victor and maxi left psd.

to summarize. it's also not really about the quality of victor. I can say that he has done really good work in the past in afa. as it now is, can the user from the afa answer much better. The question is whether his path, he goes, the right one for this page. I think he's basically a really nice guy and I have absolutely no personal problem-with him. But he makes decisions that are not good. pm the other mods to to talk about Rob and Albo is a bitchmove. Spanish post-delete is ok. Clear other opinions is disrespectful. the question is, can he handle his power. I'd find it good, his enthusiasm, he would go back a bit and concentrate on essential things. But apparently it does not work. I like the current proposal that we install a second mod in the afa v and make both yellow. jorge is an alternative and perhaps xeneize

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby tuco55 » 2012 Mar 20, 11:09

The options are :

1. Total ban
2. Reducing to a normal member
3. Reducing to a Yellow Mod

I think 1. is too harsh. From my point of view most of the problems arise from over-enthusiasm. He does genuinely appear to care about the site. Even the whole Turkey situation was because he believed he was doing the right thing. His weakness is how he reacts to criticism and his manipulation of relationships within the site.

As Global mods, options 2. and 3. have potential problems for us. It all depends on how he reacts. If he becomes a yellow mod we will have to do all the editing and moving of players. Since Nrby removed his ability to edit on the forum I have been doing all this work. We need a blue mod with full powers there because there are so many players. The transfer window becomes a nightmare.

Unfortunately, as much as I like the guy, I think option 2. is probably the best option.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Paddy » 2012 Mar 20, 13:43

No way in hell should he be removed from his position as a mod in the AFA.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby Nrby » 2012 Mar 20, 14:00

you give us little reasons not to remove him paddy ... and seeing that most if not all users would agree with jorge as a new mod there I have a serious alternative ... basically that's all I need ... and seeing as those 2 are not compatible in any way ... I might do a full switch if jorge would take the job ... he also has access to this thread but didn't yet login to see as he has been avoiding PSD since victor deleted a lot of his posts ...

about the deleting of posts victor has been on a rampage at one time deleting even several of his own posts ... I mean that made no sense since he mentioned he was deleting only spanish ones ... so either he was encouraging the spanish at one time or just found himself useless work in deleting old posts ... I mean deleting your own posts is just a waste of time

besides if jorge dose half the work victor without all the drama we might be better off ...

at this stage I'm actually waiting to see what jorge has to say ... as I've seen opinions from the rest

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby jurgens » 2012 Mar 20, 15:18

tuco55 wrote:The options are :

1. Total ban
2. Reducing to a normal member
3. Reducing to a Yellow Mod

I think 1. is too harsh. From my point of view most of the problems arise from over-enthusiasm. He does genuinely appear to care about the site. Even the whole Turkey situation was because he believed he was doing the right thing. His weakness is how he reacts to criticism and his manipulation of relationships within the site.

As Global mods, options 2. and 3. have potential problems for us. It all depends on how he reacts. If he becomes a yellow mod we will have to do all the editing and moving of players. Since Nrby removed his ability to edit on the forum I have been doing all this work. We need a blue mod with full powers there because there are so many players. The transfer window becomes a nightmare.

Unfortunately, as much as I like the guy, I think option 2. is probably the best option.


One is very unnecessary. Two would best for reasons already stated.

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Re: vickingo_73

Postby KeyserSoze » 2012 Mar 20, 15:30

Personally I'd go for number 2. If Víctor wants to recover the importance he had for AFA, he will have to work for it...
But first, let's see if Jorge replies to Norbert's PM.

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