Javier Pastore

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Javier Pastore

Postby PES Stats Database » 2009 May 05, 23:06

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Last edited by Epsi on 2010 Nov 17, 16:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Amaterasu » 2011 Nov 21, 23:52

Football is the most subjective of all the sports. Any match is unpredictable, every single play is unexpected. There is no certain win or inevitable loss. There are losses greater than victory. Football is more than sport; it's art and passion. It was made just for appreciation. Mourinho could form an impenetrable solid defense, with Pepe, a Center Back, like a lock, in the center of the field, hunting for Messi. But he should pass. The same Messi could not score against Sevilla in an unpleasant night. And still we persist miserably in analyze objectively each player, team or squad. We're all doing it wrong... but this is a hell of fun!

So, I would enjoy disscuss about football with you all, even if we do have different points of view some times. I am liking all the discussions here.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Kim » 2011 Dec 06, 15:35

I'm following (literally tracking :lol: ) Pastore since his arrival to PSG, and November was a very bad month for him. He looked tired, playing on a wrong tempo, walking on the field and missing easy passes.
I did some research and i found out that he also had those "blackouts" in his Palermo days, around November and December. In those times, his coach was used to substitute him at half-time, or around the 60' until he regains his consistency.
PSG coach didn't put him in the line up in Europa League, in order for him to rest, and it worked since his match against Auxerre was much better than his November performances.
A stamina problem ? I suggest reducing it by one point, to 83.

Also, i'm backing up Amaterasu for what he said about Pastore's technique. I see him as a 93/94, and yet he still have room for improvement.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby conker8 » 2011 Dec 20, 23:44

I recall all the suggestions and ideas throwns on this thread:

Response: 80/81 (agree - I rate @78)
SPA:83 (agree)
DA:90
Tech:92-93 (agree with 92)
ST:82

IMO DS and Mentality could be decreased too + TW at 81.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Diego » 2011 Dec 21, 01:15

-Agree with Lower Res and Ds.(around 86 would be fine I think)
-Wouldnt disagree of raising Da and Tec, but still uncertain on any number, and more sure on the first mentioned, quite visible how great his close control is, probably my wiser choice would be 1+.
-But I would ^ with Spa, Imo he isnt that good passing and can do some rather poor ones at times, just to incosistant imo, could push for an 82 but that's it. He already got *Passer anyway.
-Btw would add to that list *Outside card, a clear must. And I may ask if he really deserves Darting run...
-Att could be higher in case of Decreasing Tw, and in case you dont, could be higher too :P
-Ts could get a slight decrease too, dont see him that fast over distance.(my suggestion would 84, though even 83 could fit him better imo)
-ST suggestion looks quite nice, watching those two wonderful volleys he did, but would like to wait a bit more for that.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Adrien » 2011 Dec 21, 16:53

I have some suggestions for him:

Card:

Removed Darting Run and Add S06-Outside Curve.
He only use Mazing Run and don't use Darting Run...

Stats:

TS: 83
He don't run a lot, not on long distance, but great Acceleration.

DA: 90/91 ; DS: 84/85
He is not very quick in his dribble but he can do what he want with the ball, always fix player on small distance.

Resp: 78
I have already said that but according to the new ladder he really don't deserves this high value... nothing special on defensive actions and he is not a scorer...

ST: 82
He can scores some fantastic goals on bad angle, like against Brest this year.


This is my suggestions but I not disagree to an eventualy switch between TW and Att.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby jurgens » 2011 Dec 21, 17:21

I'd really disagre with lowering his response under 80. Hes clearly a responsive player, unlike say... riquelme. Hes constantly in motion, running into passes, moving into space.. he reacts quick. while riquelme just stands there and hardly moves when something comes at him. I'm/was working on a slight update for this set, as it's oldish and needs some changes based on new definitions, and I've learned a lot about stats since this set... but I've been missing a lot of his matches. He hasn't really changed much as player, still mostly the same. Less agressive on the ball though, and not trying to beat so many players at once, which is the big difference in his game. His passing is still really erratic though.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby nonobus » 2011 Dec 21, 18:51

Not sure it's the best moment to raise Pastore' s stats. Despite having good potential, he is doing nowadays weak performances.
His close control is excellent(can be very tricky and dribble well) but has he a better one than his teammates Nene? Same for his technique, what's more a player like Xavi is at TEC:92 and i put him above Pastore in term of first touch(besides as good as Pastore is, i don't rate his first touch as consistent as a 93), .
His response, however needs a big decrease, i don't agree with jurgens' view about it(your description could fit a player like Di Maria, yet he has res:76 for instance).

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby jurgens » 2011 Dec 21, 19:52

(your description could fit a player like Di Maria, yet he has res:76 for instance).


No it wouldn't. Di Maria waits on the side line, gets the ball then runs, thats pretty much it. He doesn't really look for it. Pastore is always running and following the ball, all over the pitch, as soon as he recognizes he needs to run for a passing option, he does. Just because you play AMF doesn't mean you need low response, if you react quick and go after a lot of balls and run into passes quickly, thats response. If you just stand still waiting for the ball like Riquelme, response. Thats one of the reason static playmakers get the lowest response. Pastore is the furthest thing from being static, he is an extremly active movement orientated playmaker.



Theres countless examples in there of him running into passe and onto the ball there.



See the differnce? One mostly just stands still and recvives passes, the other is constant motion looking to get them/on them.

Konami
Indicates how responsive a player is to passes, loose balls and movement of opposition players.


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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby nonobus » 2011 Dec 21, 20:05

What pastore is showing now is far from that time(it was one of his best games with Psg,Pastore is less active now). I disagree with that statement "Di Maria waits on the side line, gets the ball then runs,", he also often tracks back to defend and sometimes cut son the center to make a through ball.
Anyway, the reasoning still apply to playmakers like Ozil or even maybe Xavi. They are not static at all.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby adieet » 2011 Dec 21, 20:38

Just want to make sure..This di maria track back thing... Is it chasing people with the ball ? Or..movement of player ?
Extremely active movement orientated player vs sometimes cuts on the centre... I thought theres a gap... I know its said by different person, jurgens and nonobus.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby jurgens » 2011 Dec 21, 21:12

nonobus wrote:What pastore is showing now is far from that time(it was one of his best games with Psg,Pastore is less active now). I disagree with that statement "Di Maria waits on the side line, gets the ball then runs,", he also often tracks back to defend and sometimes cut son the center to make a through ball.
Anyway, the reasoning still apply to playmakers like Ozil or even maybe Xavi. They are not static at all.


It's irelevant if that match is his best or not. I've seen two of his recent matches, his playstyle didn't all of a sudden change. He did not start strolling around the pitch. He moves in the same way, running into passes and being generally energetic.

You don't seem to understand at all. Xavi and ozil are not static, but they are not actively running for the ball consistently. Xavi strolls into passes, why would he need to do anything else? barca play the most compact of any team, xavi plays at a laid back pace, ozil lacks the stamina to constantly exert himself by moving to passes, he does not play like that. Pastores style is clearly very different from both, very high energy and constant movement at speed. Probably pointless trying to explain, if you can't recognize the differnces in how they move on the pitch.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Diego » 2011 Dec 21, 21:22

Same would apply to 2009-2010 sneijder, and Kaka for example, right?

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Adrien » 2011 Dec 22, 00:04

Response is the most difficult stat to rate. I really don't undertsand when a player can deserve a yellow value on AMF or SMF.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Adrien » 2012 Jan 05, 18:58

So everybody is agree for an update wich we removed is card Darting Run and downgrade his TS to 83-84 ?

And I'm still thinking that he deserves the card Outside Curve...

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Diego » 2012 Jan 05, 19:04

That, and outside would be ok, also Ds could come down a bit as suggested before. The rest could wait I think.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Adrien » 2012 Jan 05, 19:12

Yes the rest is not important yet because he is too irregular to deserves an other update... we have to wait more.

Agree too for the downgrade of DS, I think to 86.


So:

- Add Outside Curve
- Removed Darting Run
- TS: 83-84
- DS: 85-87

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Adrien » 2012 Jan 24, 15:06

He definitely needs some change in his set:

At first, DA/Agi/DS needs to be change, His body movements are not so quick, he is a player who only put an amazing accuracy in his dribble, he don't turn on himself or fix a player by body feints, he fix a player by dribble. His dribble are very accurate with a fantastic close control. But he don't put a high speed on it.

So my views is:

Agi: 86
DA: 91
DS: 84

And he is a player fast on small distances to fix player but not on long run... he doesn't deserve a good TS, he is more a poacher.

TS: 83
Acc: 88

Other thing that I want to switch, it is jump/header. He is bad with his header, don't like to use it, but he go on aerial challenge and can jump easily.

Header: 73
Jump: 76

And the points wich is the most important to reflect his season... Mentality... He don't go back a lot and sometimes he is a ghost, he can stop to playing football 15 minutes and you don't see him... he don't look to be a warrior... Defence needs to be downgrade too, he prefer playing as SS and don't back so much.

Ment: 73
Def: 43

I also decrease Resp and TW by one points and raise his Att by one points to compensate all previous decrease.

Att: 82
Resp: 80
TW: 81

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby dartherus » 2012 Feb 02, 08:53

vickingo_73 wrote: Why isn't he regular at NT? Cause he hadn't impressive performances there and he hadn't too many opportunities too.

Let me inform you that Pastore didn't have too many opportunities in the NT. With Maradona he was a young newcomer, with Batista he had previous issues regarding the times Batista was the coach of the junior argentinian team, so Batista had him benched.

With Sabella the problem is that his style doesn't allow him to use playmakers, besides, there's a problem with him being acused of 'cometero' (who prefer his friends above the best players), it is said that even if Sabella had Xavi available, he'd bench Xavi to let one of his mediocre friends to get the starting spot (one example? his beloved Jose Sosa, who was a bust in his European teams, until he ended in a crappy ucranian team where he plays now).

So, it's not because Pastore lack of talent that he didn't get enough opportunities yet (the few matches he entered, were just some minutes).

For instance, against Bolivia was his FIRST (and only) time as a starter, he was confirmed as emergency to replace Aguero and played as a winger, not as a playmaker. Even then, when he could move a little behind the scorers and in the middle, he showed flashes of his inmense talent, despite not enough time with the teammates and the system. Even the best play of such match was on him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCjN37rZC8s.

Now he's injured, but before his injury, he was regaining his best shape since the arrival of Ancelotti, so it seemed more a matter of motivation (used as a striker more than a playmaker by the former PSG coach, and being benched in his NT, to make room for mediocre players who were coached by Sabella in Estudiantes).

So, I'm sure that he'll be brilliant upon recovery from injury. I believe Ancelotti can spark the best of him again (remember Ancelotti already tried to get Pastore when he was Chelsea's coach).

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby Vickingo » 2012 Feb 02, 10:37

Yes, read my quote...I've said that he hadn't too many opportunities (as you're saying) and when he played he didn't do well. Sinceraly I don't share your opinion (I respect it but I don't share) about Sabella and his work on NT, but here isn't the place to talk about that.

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Re: Javier PASTORE

Postby dartherus » 2012 Feb 03, 00:41

vickingo_73 wrote:Yes, read my quote...I've said that he hadn't too many opportunities (as you're saying) and when he played he didn't do well. Sinceraly I don't share your opinion (I respect it but I don't share) about Sabella and his work on NT, but here isn't the place to talk about that.


You said "Cause he hadn't impressive performances there and he hadn't too many opportunities too."

My point is, with JUST ONE game as a starter (the other few games he entered, was only to play the final 5 or 10 minutes) and playing out of his position, how could he do it better? Pastore is not an explosive scorer who could showoff in few minutes, due to his style, he needs more time. Probably the same would have happened to Xavi, Silva or Lampard in similar circumstances.

I explained about Sabella, because it was part of the explanation of why Pastore was benched. Not because's lack of talent, but because Sabella prefers less talented players that he has managed before in Estudiantes.

This is another clear example in the Argentinian NT: Ezequiel Garay, from Benfica, and Coloccini, captain of one of the best defenses in the premier League (NewCastle), both playing at great level, and not even called for the NT, and Sabella has given a starting spot to such lousy player like Desabato, playing like crap in his team (Estudiantes was at the bottom on the mediocre argentinian league when he was given a starting spot, ahead Garay or Coloccini).

It's not an offtopic when these facts are easy to verify, and can be used to understand how a player so talented as Pastore is not starting in his NT.

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