Claude Makélélé | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

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Claude Makélélé | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Uzair » 2008 Dec 12, 16:00

Nickname: "El Pantera" | "mi-cuisse" | "Le Mak" | "Maka" | "Mak" | "Maké | "Makouloulou" | "Le Vieux" | "La Poutre" | "L'Anaconda"



Club: Real Madrid


Growth type: Late/Lasting

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ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Mak ... %A9l%C3%A9

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Makelele

http://www.123football.com/players/m/cl ... /index.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/shared/bsp ... _41834.stm

Last edited by Uzair on 2010 Feb 28, 13:31, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Dec 10, 10:50

I can't agree with putting Makalele def on Cambiasso's level. Makalele was on another level in terms of defending. He was undoubtely one of the best dm ever, however really crap when it comes to attacking but it wasn't his job, was it? On the other hand Cambiasso(and so was mentioned before Redondo) was much more all-round player. Better passer, shooter, better technically.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Korinov » 2011 Dec 10, 13:19

Redondo was, overall, a much better DMF than Makelele IMO. You don't have to spend half of the match running after opposition players to recover balls if 1) you don't give those balls away and 2) your intelligence and game-reading allow you anticipate their movements and position yourself well enough you don't need to run.

I've been recently watching complete games of Celta de Vigo in the last 90s, where he played alonside Mazinho in the midfield. And he was an enforcer by the book, constantly running, tackling, pressuring, etc. But oh my, his passing was horrible. He gave away so many balls with his shitty passing... I don't remember him being that bad at Madrid, I suppose he improved a little in that area, but right now I wouldn't give him more than 75 or 76 for SPA (for Celta era it would be whites).

Sigh, I'll try to make Galácticos and Mourinho's Chelsea classic teams in my OF to test Makelele in both eras. In the meantime, I still believe there's no need to give him a high DEF value. His balance, stamina, great response and defensive cards already make him an impressive defensive midfielder. And his short passing must go down, there's no doubt about that.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ingus » 2011 Dec 10, 13:24

I don't think he deserves this response while were at it. Wasn't on prime cambiassos level if you ask me.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Fantasista » 2011 Dec 12, 11:46

Well a slight decrease is a good idea but I'd go for sth like 92, maybe 91.
And what do you think about my suggestions about redoing his speed and increasing agility a bit?
Fantasista wrote:Also I don't know why he has 85 ts, 84 acc. Typical ts<acc player to me. Maybe his immense reaction impressed me wrong but I think he deserves to be at least on pair with Milan's R10 who sits on 86. On the other hand I don't consider him so great on long distance. I think we all agree he was clearly slower than current Messi is, even if we consider argentinean 84 ts. Personally I'm between 82 and 83 for ts. And agility could go up a little too. He wasn't "Panthera" without a reason!


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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ynwasg8 » 2011 Dec 12, 17:51

His RES was not much different from cambiasso at his time at chelsea.What needs decrease is his TECH with 81 he is on par with Lucas.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Brezza » 2011 Dec 13, 15:26

Korinov wrote:In Madrid he was the perfect example of a workhorse: endless stamina, constant movements, ruthless defensive work... I know he later changed at Chelsea, his game became more intelligent to compensate his loss of fitness. But in Madrid he lost as many balls as he recovered, and just got a bit idolized by the supporters because the DMFs who arrived after him were just terrible (Gravese, Pablo García, etc).

About the Mascherano comparison... maybe we need to actually create a consistant ladder in DEF for all defensive midfielders. I mean, I think currently we have 80 as the "frontier" value: Redondo has 80, prime Mauro Silva has 80 (late one has 82, well deserved IMO, he lost physique but compensated in terms of intelligence), Vieira has 80, Mascherano has 80, Roy Keane has 78... etc.

The thing is, Makelele in his Madrid era was worse (in terms of DEF) than all those players. That's why I suggest 77 DEF for his Madrid era. But we could also widen the scale a bit, like this:

77 - Makelele (Madrid).
78 - Keano.
80 - Mauro Silva (prime), Makelele (Chelsea), Vieira, Mascherano.
81 - Redondo.


82 - Mauro Silva (late).

Updated previous suggestions of mine.

PS: His 'solid' passing at Chelsea was, IMO, more a matter of better TW and general reading of the game that true improvement in passing skills, however I'd have no troubles in letting it sit around low yellows (one point reduction for SPA/SPS is still needed IMO).


You may have a point of him being more of a pure work horse at Real (although admittedly I havent seen a huge amount of him there) while honing his defensive craft at Chelsea. He's Easily the best pure DM in Prem history if not modern football altogether though, his DM role has now been dubbed 'the Makelele role.' He's pretty much become synonymous to what all future DM's should abide by.

I really wouldn't put him on par with Keane and Veira in terms of def , both superb tacklers in there own right more box-box players ( I think Viera might be a couple points too high in def even) better than Masch as well who was even more of a pure enforcer than Makelele relying on his response. Sure Makelele was an incredible reader but his def posistiong at Chelsea was exemplary as well. he'd just stick there in a deep position soaking up all the pressure enabling the more attacking players on the team to raid forward and really help out the defence that famously kept 25 clean sheets and went over 1,000 minutes without conceding while winning the league title in 2004/05, 82 is a fair value imo.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Mr. Evans » 2011 Dec 13, 17:55

Nicely put Brezza, couldn't agree more. Makelele was the main reason why Chelsea were such an incredible defensive unit. He was simply phenomenal up until his last season and the gap that he's left ever since he moved still hasn't been filled (there's hope with Romeu though). Defensive genius.

thor34 wrote:JUMP: 80/81/82. Digestible methionine and leap up to splice the header. From what I saw the half-length coat will easily to Angeleri.
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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ynwasg8 » 2011 Dec 13, 22:34

Mr. Evans wrote:Nicely put Brezza, couldn't agree more. Makelele was the main reason why Chelsea were such an incredible defensive unit. He was simply phenomenal up until his last season and the gap that he's left ever since he moved still hasn't been filled (there's hope with Romeu though). Defensive genius.

I doubt Romeu will come to makelele's level at screening but he already has better technical abilities.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Mr. Evans » 2011 Dec 13, 23:37

Nahh that's not what I meant. I mean with Romeu it seems like Chelsea finally have a worthy succesor of Maka.
But you never know though, he's already very far for a guy that just turned 20 and played just one or two games at the highest level before moving to Chelsea. He plays a role where experience is key as well.

thor34 wrote:JUMP: 80/81/82. Digestible methionine and leap up to splice the header. From what I saw the half-length coat will easily to Angeleri.
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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby BigStu » 2011 Dec 13, 23:38

Sorry to disappoint but if Romeu turns into the second coming of mak, Barca can resign him for a pittance

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ynwasg8 » 2011 Dec 14, 00:15

Still think Essien is a better choice than Romeu.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ingus » 2012 Mar 01, 20:49

overhauled both sets. Left passing as is for further discusion.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Brezza » 2012 Mar 02, 16:49

I'd give him even higher def for his chelsea era.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby macaco » 2012 Jul 03, 16:04

este tenía la polla como una anaconda

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby čale » 2012 Jul 03, 16:07

you have been warned and you still continued to act like a douche. a week's cooldown it is.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Fantasista » 2012 Jul 23, 12:51

Don't you guys think his passing stats should be decreased? Basically all what he was doing in that area was passing the ball to the nearest team-mate after getting it. He was extremely efficient with that but you can do it even with low 70s for spa & sps.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby ingus » 2012 Jul 23, 13:25

I think korinov is watching some of him from those times, so I'd wait for his opinions. I'm reluctant to lower it as I'm really not sure, and it seems like konami would have a reason for the 84 they gave him. Doesn't matter too much if the pass is simple, if the quality behind it is good, but having said that... I'm not sure if he had such quality.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Korinov » 2012 Jul 23, 13:50

There should be a very significative difference between Real Madrid and Chelsea era. I've seen matches of Makelele throughout his career: late 90s (Celta de Vigo), early 00s (Real) and mid 00s (Chelsea). He matured with the years and, in general, improved as a footballer while losing physique. He was a terrible passer at Celta... sometimes he would make really good passes but he mostly fucked up due to lack of game vision and inability to read his teammates moves. At Madrid... he had improved a little. But he improved much more in his late years at Chelsea.

In fact, his passing in Chelsea set may even be slightly underrated. He was always able to put a decent pace on his short passing, even in his early days. Yes, there's a reason why Konami gave him 84 SPA and 86 SPS in PES 6 and such. They went a bit overboard IMO... but the idea behind it is right. I wouldn't put him over 82 SPA / 84 SPS for Chelsea set. Regarding Madrid... SPS can be at yellows (current value, 82, is fine) but SPA needs to go lower. Nothing more than a mid green IMO. 76, maybe. He lost quite a number of balls due to his bad choices and misplaced passes. If we were to make a set for his Celta spell, SPA would be on whites then.

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Re: Claude MAKÉLÉLÉ | 2000-2002 & 2004-2006

Postby Fantasista » 2012 Jul 25, 09:51

TBH I wouldn't touch his spa in Chelsea set. Sps on the other hand could go up a bit, Konami got a point here but as you said nothing higher than 84.

76 Spa for Madrid era-fine with me. You're right about sps that it should stay in yellows but still it's more 80 than 82 to me.

PS. What about his tw? Are you going to lower it?

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