Ariel ORTEGA | 2000-2001

[Uzair]

Nickname: "El Burrito" ("The Little Donkey"), thus called "Burrito Ortega"

Club: Club Atlético River Plate



VIDEOS:




ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Ortega

http://www.groundreport.com/Sports/Arie ... si/2898126

[Uzair]

I'd like to hear Uzairs reasoning on giving him mentality 58, most of his sets and values are great, some of the best in the classic database, I'm sure he had his reasons. I know a little of ortega and now he was a lazy fuck and never defended at all.. so I can understand why he has this value.

haha thanks . wow this set was such a long time ago. umm, if i'm being completely honest i remember his original figure was somewhere around the low 70's. but then i got some feedback from some members (Mr. RVN in particular i think...or perhaps it was goonerlover/tom . one of the older members) saying that his mentality should be the lowest on the database by far. so i lowered it a few points but they still insisted that it should be lower so carried on lowering it until the value we have now.

so this is more of a case of me lowering his mentality on request from, in my opinion, a more knowledgeable member. in all fairness i did always think that figure was a bit exaggerated and i guess it could be raised by a few points. it should still be the one of the lowest on the database though.

i know this might not be the reason you were expecting but i hope it helps anyway.

[jurgens]

Nah, it was a great answer. Exactly what I expected. I leave the values as they are, as they were assigned for a reason.

[Vickingo]

Well, IMO it isn't a right value and it's inaccurate, but if Uzair says that, I have to believe it BTW thanks.

[julgui]

I'm from Argentina and I've always seen.. I can say that value is completely wrong.
It may not be able to explain to make the change, I do not care. Let me make it clear my position against this number (and against much of the set)

[jurgens]

I'm from Argentina and I've always seen.. I can say that value is completely wrong.
It may not be able to explain to make the change, I do not care. Let me make it clear my position against this number (and against much of the set)

What would you change with the rest of the set?

[julgui]

What would you change with the rest of the set?

this set is fine to the ortega of 2001? and this?

to me some stats are high to 2000/2001 era
i feel his TS/ACC/AGI/DA/DS and maybe ATT for the ortega of the 1998 without doubts
IMO the actual set is a mixture of the ortega of the 98 (BAL/TS/ACC/AGI/DA/DS) and the ortega of the 2001 (passes stats, shoot stats and CURL for example) is not completely for 2000/2001 ortega

is not a pure set of teh 2001 to me, is a mixture of 98 and 2001 without doubts

I agreed with this and had said something about it. But after the hack was removed.

Also it does not matter, I do not care to discuss changes in stats. I just wanted to make clear my position

[jurgens]

Making clear your position about not caring to discuss changes in stats, is absolutely useless and nothing more than trolling.

[julgui]

There are people out there interested in my position on South American players (Quite often I get a PM)... Failure to agree does not mean doing trolling.

[jurgens]

So let me get this straight. You do not agree with the set, you don't feel like telling us why, you post in here to let your "fans" know this set isn't up to your standards, leaving it so many others will question this sets accuracy... and of course, you won't tell us why. That's a really shitty attitude julgui, I expected more from you. If you plan on doing this anywhere in the classic section, don't bother.. I'll just delete it.

[julgui]

I never said that. Do not put words in my mouth. Perhaps I'm doing it in other topics?
Simply, the player is not well represented. It is a mix of different eras in this set.
You can also delete all the previous post so you do not lose the thread of conversations. (Just see that all members of Argentina are in disagreement, I think enough to be alert.)
Also do not want to distorting more. And I apologize if I did.

[juan92]

got some changes to the ortega's set, because in my opinion (and acording to what i've read another argentinos think the same as me) this set does not represents ortega correctly.

BB: 75
TS: 82
ACC: 87
RES: 75
AGI: 93
DA: 96
DS: 90
SP: 80
FKA: 85
TECH: 92
MENT: 67
TW: 72


BB: i think that in a younger set a 73-74 for he's BB will be fine, but for this age he became just a bit more stronger, not so much, but learned to use he's body a bit better. and watching the fact that players like classic aimar and dalessandro are rated at 76 in BB(well rated), ariel could sits on 75

SPEED STATS: i never watch him as good runner in long runs to deserve an 86 in TS, not even in he's glory days, but good in short runs(because of he's amazing change of rythm) for the 2000-2002 era i would rate him at 82(same as aimar) and 87 in ACC(1 more than pablito) and with an 90 in DS would make an amazing combo.

RES, MEN and TW: im 100% taht in this three areas he deserves an amazingly low value for each one, but i couldnt decide in a comparation with another player/s, so i've tested some low values and those were the values that i've choosen. but as the values were choosen randomly and i dont got any good argument to defend those numbers i've admit from now that could be wrong, could be 100% wrong. but i just like them...

DA and TECH: well about DA, he was one of the better dribblers that i've ever saw but im sure that a 97 for this era is one point overrated, he should be in 96 and for he's better days(for me 1998) he should got 97,cause back then he was abit better in this area.
and tech, i found overrated in 94, i think that not even in he's 90's days he could sit in pair with aimar(talking about tech) for me a 91/92 for this era would be a nice option

SP and FKA: about he's shoots i've always compared he's capabilityes of shoots with the raul's, both amazing quality scorers, just pure class on both of them, so a high number of power is not needed for any of them, is not that 82 is too much, is just that i think that he should be in par with the "angel de madrid" in here.
and for he's FKA i always watch him as a good taker, nothing else. exactly like i see dalessandro (who got 85 in FKA and 90 in CURL) so i've decided to give him the same vlue than andres

[jurgens]

I'd agree with these speed stats, I don't really see a need for the agi decrease or tech though.. not sure about the rest

[juan92]

more opinions of el burrito?? maybe from the others argentinian users??

[juan92]

@jurguens

i think that you should update he's speed stats with those numbers, is always good to heard more opinions but since nobody else seems to care about ortega(one of the best argentinian players since maradona) and a change is really needed here...

[GoodOldClassical]

I agree with the suggestions except for agility and technique where I woudl remain with the current value.

El Burrito had a natural flair in his style of game based on his dribbling which, on its turn, was clearly based on a agility and small speed bursts (clearly good acellaration, average top speed).

He had such a splendid first touch and driblling finess that I would never go below 93/94 on technique.

My perception, tough. If necessary we can go a ladder comparision. What do you guys think?

[Vickingo]

About mentality we had a discussion before and was setted as good in 58. About the rest sinceraly I have doubts about numbers, but I fully agree with a great decrease of his SP, I don't know why always was given a yellow number when his main virtue was the mix of SA/ST mostly, he prefered the placing before the blast. I don't agree with BB in green, in no way, he was pretty weak, always in the floor (and a lot of times simulating penalties, looking for the floor), that plus his god region in AGI won't be realistic because he would be unstoppable in dribble, the current number is more than enough. Speed stats are interesant cause he was pure acceleration, pure explosion in firsts metres and we could represent that with a huge gap between his TS and ACC, his TS never was something so special, just more than the average, a decent one, but nothing of other world. About RESP I can't disagree. More thoughts?

[John1]

Opinion on El Burrito? He was a gambetear...more? Like his spiritual heroes Rene and Corbatta, he was a drunken winger that even once tried to dribble his own shadows...

[blumbas]

I suggest increase of his agility.
Better in agility than Messi.
This is only suggestion