Just as the topic says, this thread is for NEW classic players. Those who are not yet on the database. Rather than posting a new set and waiting for it to be approved or denied, post it here so members who have more knowledge on said players can deem whether it should or shouldn't be moved to the main site. Continue to post different era sets for already created players as usual, they will be approved in much the same way. This thread is strictly for unmade players who are not yet in the database.
I'll be cleaning up this thread to avoid clutter somewhat regularly.
"He was the keystone in the greatest team the Celts ever had. James Quinn is recognised as the greatest centre forward we have ever possessed, and we have had many fine leaders...A strong robust player possessed of a wonderful pair of shopulders which he used to great advantage and more fairly than he was given credit for. Quinn was subjected to a lot of abuse in the course of his fourteen years service. He seldom objected to anything done to himself, but deeply resented ill-treatment to any of his colleagues, all less able to stand up to it." Willie Maley
"With the deep chest and muscular shoulders of a charging bison he shed festoons of clinging opponents as he hurtled goalwards. He could dribble and had some outstanding solo runs to his credit, wbut with four forwards who knew all there was to be known about the art, he normally filled the role of rushing their passes to fruition. His left shot was furious [the World Encyclopedia described it "as the hardest shot ever seen in Scotland"]. Repeatedly it stretched the back of the net so taut that the ball rebounded into play ["remember, this balls, when wet, could weigh a ton" Tommy Gemmell]...Even when stumbling under the attentions of the defence he could momentarily retain enough purchase to part with the ball before stretching his length on the ground. His performances on the field were so famous that even the pencils of reporters in the ranks of Tuscany were compelled to limn his greatness in phrases like "Quinn on Saturday, with all his power, dash and deadliness";"the ever watchful Quinn, ready to spring or burst through when an opening presented itself or fasten on a stray ball, played to his reputation"[eye-sighted];"Quinns bustling bolts and maxim shootings":"Quinns thrilling runs and maxim shooting";"notably Quinn who beat almost the Clyde team himself.";"No centre going equals the Celt in holding on to the ball when pressed and getting in a shot by hook or by crook under great impediments." James E. Handley
Started as a "hard running left winger" he began his Celtic career rather unspectacular but as the centre-forward was once injured, Willie Maley moved Jimmy Quinn to the CF position and he began to become the Mighty Quinn. In the Scottish Cup Final of 1901 he stormed through 6 (six!) defenders while they tried to hack him off his feet, of course scored and in his own words "I used to play with the blood running down into my boots." After he scored again the Scottish Cup Final against Rangers in 1904 after Celtic were 0:2 down till the score was 3:2 in favour of Celtic his fame sprayed all over the world. He single-handed destroyed Rangers and in the coming Old-Firms he was marked by three defenders of the three-man Rangers defence! Quinn still was able to score, even though it was disallowed twice by the referee. There were darksides as well as he was sent-off against Rangers in his most loved game, the Old Firm, as he allegedly trampled on Alec Craig in 1905 and in 1907 for purportedly kicking Joe Hendry. But he was capable of destroying the english team as well as he played for Scotland against them in 1908 and the newspaper reports reported "Scotlands attack seemed at times to be simply Quinn, all Quinn and nothing but Quinn." He loved the big occasion, beat the English League Team as well in a single-sided match in 1909. On Christmas day in the same year he scored his most beautiful goal against Kilmarnock as he shoulder-barged his way through 8 Kilmarnock players and finished in a typical Quinn way, low and hard. Doesn't sound like a nice guy does it? Well, he was one. Very humble in his nature, I think this story is the best paraphrasize of his personality and is recorded in his book and various other sources: After his professional time Jimmy, as always lived in Coronation Row, Croy. It was in the late 20's, when a future Celtic hero called Jimmy Delaney went to see the the famous Quinn in his house. The two Jimmys talked affably with each other, however much the younger was overawed by the presence of the older one. Just as Delaney was about to leave, Quinn showed him all his medals, which he kept in a biscuit tin and ended up by saying "Hera are ya, son, just tak wan." Such was the humility of the Mighty Quinn.
And to give some statement about the stats so that it is clear I did not just make them up.
Physical values: Any reasoning needed? Read the info text. His agility is that high because he turned into different directions while being hacked, had a general movement ability and used his strength very wise.
Technical values: To keep the ball under controll - even in those raw, anarchic times with this medicine balls - you need some ball controll and I described him mainly as barging through his opponents, but in the various newspaper reports I have read, there are rather dribblings described than pure power. So at least he had the talent for an average dribbling values and needed a very good touch and close controll as he was marked brutally close for that time.
Mental values: You need some kind of mental strength if you want to be at the top of the game and especially in those days you had to be tough. The centre forwards and wingers at most and he was both. There are various reports about "severe treatment by opponents" and his own "blood running" quote to underline that. Furthermore his strongest games were the big ones and it is one part of mental toughness if you like high-pressure atmosphere. His leadership qualities are testified by WIllie Maley and team mates even though he wasn't the captain as this was Sunny Jim Young but in fairness, Young was the greatest Captain Celtic ever had.
And to give proper information on the size of player he was: Celtic were unbeatable the best football team in the Edwardian Era, becoming Champions from 1905-1910/14-17 and were unbeaten in 62 games in a row. They had one of the biggest and certainly one of the most modern stadiums in the world around 1905 and games between the English League pick/national team - back in the time they had a fundament to think they are unbeatable as they usually were ! - and the scottish one were highly competitive and were held a ceremonial two times per year, once at Hampden and once at Wembley and Scotland was the major opponent back then for the English players as outside of this there were certainly brillant, all time heroes but these were mainly individuals and their countries lacked in the developed, logistical part of the game and of course, in the general strengths of players. How things have turned around Well, at least in the 30's the Austrian developed a magnificent football which marks down the downfall. So, Jimmy Quinn was, as credited, the best forward of the Edwardian football era in one the biggest clubs in britain, who won 11 out of 15 times the league between 1905-1919 and the highly competitive scottish cup 5 out of 9 times between 1905 and 1914/15 which marks down the time Quinn spent at Celtic. Hope it does not appear as a cheap fan-boys opinion-
"Quinn on Saturday, with all his power, dash and deadliness";"the ever watchful Quinn, ready to spring or burst through when an opening presented itself or fasten on a stray ball, played to his reputation"[eye-sighted];"Quinns bustling bolts and maxim shootings":
and the way he's described as constantly barging through multiple players make him seem like he was quite an aggressive highly responsive player than what you have given him. So they could possibly be raised higher maybe even over attack., he seemed the kind of player who relied more on his physical qualities in his era to score goals than pure positioning/ attack intelligence or whatever you want to call it.
" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton
vickingo_73 wrote:Plava, what do you think Aguero's set?
No particular thoughts since I didn't follow him regularly until he came to Europe. I will have to rely on jurgens' opinion about the stats you posted, since I don't have time to track and watch his games from that era. If somebody would ask me, I would say that there are much more important stats to be updated/made than that particular era for Sergio Agüero. That doesn't mean these stats shouldn't be made, but they don't have such importance for Classic section.
I know this is off-topic, but this will be deleted anyway. Although my knowledge about Independiente isn't impressive, I can't understand how Agüero can be among 32 most significant players when he didn't won anything nor had such impact on the Inderpendiente's history as some of the Pre 1980s attackers. I will not comment on this again, but if you think that Agüero should be there instead of Tarabini (first player that pops up into my mind), so be it.
This is Alfredo Gottardi, a defender who played at Clube Atlético Paranaense dried in 70, started as a striker in the youth after he has turned professional for a midfielder, and fits the position, was the king of the sector, but hears a time that athletes need a quarterback, because everybody else was injured or suspended, and as Alfred was strong, tall and also played with a DM, was doing the work of quarterback and coach liked his performance there, then there stayed until the end of his career, forming the best back four double Paranaense until today (2011), along with Bellini.
PLAYER INDEX CARDS: P02 – Anchor Man P06 – Pinpoint Pass P16 – Extra Attacker S02 – Passer S07 – Man Marking S09 – Covering
ATTACK / DEFENCE AWARENESS:OFF
Growth type: Standard/Lasting
INFO: Alfredo was a man of strong personality. He even admitted that was "marrent", who fought to defend their views. Maybe it was just due to this characteristic that has succeeded in overcoming the myth of the father and send his career to such a point, along with Cashew be considered one of the best players in club history. The strong personality of Alfred began to manifest itself very early. Atletico Mineiro in the cradle, he began playing at the club with 16 years in the youth. For stubborn, played as a striker, despite calls from friends and observers, who insisted that he had to play in goal, the position of his father and uncle, Albert. Alfredo did not care. I wanted to make history in his athletic and not living in the shadow of the past generation. Over time, retreated and turned half-right position in which he served for the longest time he was down in the athletic teams. For two years he stayed there until there was a chance to return to Atletico in 1966. This time, there had to think for one second. Fell again, for there was his place. More than that, it was almost home. As a child he helped his uncle and father to take care of the lawn, preparing the ground for the games. So no sense in playing a different shirt than the red and black. In red and black, was receding further and started to play as the steering wheel. Skilled, was important in the frame of the game and exit of the ball. The story of how she became Alfredo became quarterback - and a good defender - is also unusual. In 1967, purely by chance. Atletico was playing against the Green Water Tiao when defender was injured. Coach Alfredo Ramos ordered the wheel Nair that he was playing behind. By resolution of its own, Nair told Gottardi continue in the middle and went himself to the back four on the grounds that its height would make a difference in favor of Atletico. After that, and appeals to the coach who played as a defender, Alfredo changed function. It took months of specific training for the position. He learned to score, to cover the head, to anticipate. The dedication paid off. Alfredo became a leading position. Played alongside double world champion Bellini and he learned a lot. It was very technical and did not like to big shots. Often preferred to evade the attacker within their own area rather than risk a wrong release. Most often, the result was an "olé". However, on some occasions, the attackers took the best ... Alfredo has played in São Paulo and had a stint with Mexican soccer, where he played for two years. Back in Curitiba, was invited to play another year at Atletico. He ended his career in 1979, after playing as a striker, right winger, steering wheel, quarterback and the right wing. Only goalkeeper was not, but the family was in that position very well represented at Atletico.
Club Atlético Paranaense: Paraná State Championship: 1970
ATT / DEF / AGG: Well, 71 ATT, as he played CM and DM, it was more set plays very precise with passes, he was going to attack from time to time, a value below 70 was perfect for him, like always to get behind the opposing defense and give a pass to the attackers or other means campers make the goal, and resisted well to the opposition, then 71, is a very good number for him in ATT. DEF, the original position is CB, and he was good at withstanding attacks opponents, but as he played DM and CM, I could not leave him with a high value, I read a value in yellow down, which is perfect.
BAL / STA: He was strong physically, was good in the body, could make the players bigger than him, not very strong, more than was good at this skill, so I read a yellow median value. STA, it was not super tough, and it was not bad, it was average, I put it with a yellow median value, which is quite ideal for him at that time.
TS / ACC / RES: He was not a supernatural with his speed, more for a quarterback he had good speed and great acceleration, so put the two values in yellow down, he liked to use these characteristics to go on the attack from time to time to intercept passes and run opponents, and likes to go out ahead in headers, so put your res in a yellow median value.
TEC / AGI / DA / DS: Highly technical for a quarterback, because he had started playing professional football as the midfield, and then retreated their positions gradually, beginning with CM, then retreated to DM and then ended up as quarterback, and even in the youth played center forward, or a second striker. So he was technically better than most quarterbacks at the time, liked to use his trickery, including defense, but he could not get around much in speed.
SPA / SPS / LPA / LPS: His passing was very good, his character when he played in midfield was to make the frame of play, always putting someone in Tavares' face of the goal, "since when playing in defense as quarterback, he chutões could not, as do the defenders of today, instead of dribbling out chutões it and then tap next to the player or his team gave accurate long passes, even with his foot that was not dominant, the left foot, he could kick, dominate, control, dribble and pass with both feet.
SA / SP / ST: In your SA and its ST, were nothing unusual than they are different quarterbacks, but the SP was very good, he risked kicking far were not very accurate, but if perchance hit him in goal box was because it was so strong, it was very difficult goalkeeper holding the ball if it hit him in goal.
FK / CUR: His free kick was not very good, he was not charged offenses often the only impediment to the defense, but its effect was very good, he put on his passes much effect, and crosses into the area as well.
HEA / JUM: He gave big jumps, it was spoken by himself, but he nodded very well, knew where the ball would fall and then was in position to get the ball out of his field of defense or to head the ball to the opponent's goal.
MEN / TW: Your dedication to the team was very good, he played defense very safe, and have played places ahead, he was extremely intelligent, and having the same rhythm until the end of 90 minutes, learned much from his fellow back four in the 70's, which was nothing more nor less than Bellini, Alfredo knew the conditions of almost all positions, because I had played almost all of them, and so it was super smart, knew how he stood the other team and never all came down the pitch. He likes to make individual plays when the defense stole the ball, dribbling it out to the midfield and then go to one of his companions.
CARDS: P02 – Anchor Man (When he played DM, used this feature much, always protected the back line to kill the opponents attacks.) P06 – Pinpoint Pass (He gave many passes in depth.) P16 – Extra Attacker (He likes to make the frame of play behind the defense) S02 – Passer (His passes were very good, especially his long passes, made several assists.) S07 – Man Marking (His appointment was very clean, and also to have the special ability to dial.) S09 – Covering (It was very good coverage, especially when played with a DM, when the side went up to the attack and make the crossing, he was always there in place to make the cover.)
CONDITION / INJURY: I gave him a B on his injury, because from what I read about him, he was not hurt much, but got hurt a few times in a few different times, then I think B is great. And in his condition because I gave him also read something about it, that it is nothing unusual skill, I think a 6 sounds good to him.
WEAK FOOT ACCURACY / FREQUENCY: I put an 8 in frequency with the leg dominant in frequency and I put 7 because he was ambidextrous, could kick, dominating, dribbling, passing and to make trips to the "leg that was not good", in this case left leg.
Néstor Clausen (born 29 September 1962), a native of Arrufo, Santa Fe Province, Argentina, is a former footballer and current manager.
His ancestors were originally from Ernen, Valais in Switzerland and emigrated to Argentina around the year 1889.
In his career, he played for Club Atlético Independiente, FC Sion and with the Argentina was 1986 World Champion. Clausen was the coach manager of Kuwaiti Premier League side Al-Kuwait (season 2009-2010) since he was released from September 2009.
CAPS: Argentina - 26 appearances / 1 goals
CAREER: 1980-1988 Independiente 260 appearances / 7 goals 1989-1994 FC Sion 73 appearances / 2 goals 1994-1995 Racing Club 22 appearances 1995-1996 Independiente 15 appearances / 1 goals 1997-1998 Arsenal de Sarandí 12 appearances
TITLES: 1983 Metropolitano Primera Division Argentina 1984 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1984 Intercontinental Cup - Independiente 1986 World Cup Argentina 1988-1989 Primera División Argentina - Independiente 1990 Runner-Up World Cup Argentina 1990-1991 Schweizer Cup - FC Sion 1991-1992 Swiss Super League - FC Sion 1995 Supercopa Sudamericana - Independiente
Nestor Rolando Clausen is considered by many people as one of the best RB in Argentinian's history. He won in WC 1986 won by Argentina, and having a really great performance in Bilardo's tactic. May be he wasn't a spectacular player, but he always played in a good way, very consistent doing all the things that the coachs ask for. Watching videos and matches of him, I've founded a really balanced player in terms of ATT/DEF, doing more than decent both actions. In marking he was good to be a typical aggressive RB. Despite having great addapt to play in attack, and constantly going forward to support the team and be always option for a pass to Maradona or Bochini in Independiente, he wasn't too much smart in his attack movements. I've assigned a white value and it's because of this reason, he all the time went to attack, but there wasn't something to concrete that possibilities; so I opted to assign the same value in ATT/DEF, and with a super aggression will be enough and well representative in PES. He based his defensive positioning and duties in his response, he was very good doing interceptions to opponents WF/SMF, and this also will help him to defend in a better way in the game. His good team work was because of his sacrifice to play in team, doing great links up with his teammates in attack and he based his style of playing in this, because of his lack of dribble abilities and pass mainly; he wasn't a good passer, below the average, and had difficults to control difficult balls and make an accurate pass, so he prefered to make secure passes or try a long pass (was better doing this but was more speed than accuracy, by side to forwards).
About his physical abilities, were EXCELLENT. He was able to run the whole match and without being tired, going the famous go and back (asked by Bilardo in NT); very tireless defender, and as I said before doing the both movements (ATT/DEF) all the time. He had a nice mentality, but not super, he was more stamina and physical status; and I assigned him 7 in C/F because he was capable to play in a regular way a lot of consecutive matches. His body was tiny, but average in body battles to have that height/weight.
Although were not exactly getting a huge amount of sets, it still is quite a lot, so I'd like to say this. The classic section already has dozens and dozens of sets that are inaccurate and need overhauls, so I'm very hesitant to add more sets which could potentially be inaccurate, it just creates more mess and more work. And when were getting sets that have little reasoning behind them, with explanations that really don't explain much about the sets, there is really little reason to approve them.
@Korinov, sets are fine, post.
@valdemarcareca I'm sorry but myself and the other mods feel you don't have enough experience in stat making for us to really trust these sets. And it's very hard to find video footage of most the players your making, so it's even harder for us to have confidence in them. So it's best for you to just stick to posting your sets in the "Alternative stat section", if you get enough positive feedback in there, we could move them to the classic section.
@Cold_Mac Post the set and I'll implement the changes Plava Čigra suggested.
@vickingo_73 you're explanations really aren't selling me for clausen. I mean you claim hes a below average passer, but you give him 74 spa and 77 lpa with decent speeds for both, these stats don't represent that. Then you go onto to say "He based his defensive positioning and duties in his response", yet you give him a world class value for def and an average value for response? As for the Aguero set; I'd echo Plava's thoughts about the set being necessary. Tbh I'm skeptical of your values, and when we consider we have a set already made for his early Athletico days and it's important to have a set for those days and they could represent both era's, I'd rather we used that.
jurgens, since we have now the alternative stats sub-forum to post all the sets we want, wouldn't be a good idea to concentrate on updating old, outdated or just plainly wrong classic sets? I mean, there're still a lot of old sets which aren't even in the PES 2010 format.
Korinov la Komadreja DEF has nothing to do with positioning.
jurgens wrote:@vickingo_73 you're explanations really aren't selling me for clausen. I mean you claim hes a below average passer, but you give him 74 spa and 77 lpa with decent speeds for both, these stats don't represent that. Then you go onto to say "He based his defensive positioning and duties in his response", yet you give him a world class value for def and an average value for response? As for the Aguero set; I'd echo Plava's thoughts about the set being necessary. Tbh I'm skeptical of your values, and when we consider we have a set already made for his early Athletico days and it's important to have a set for those days and they could represent both era's, I'd rather we used that.
About Nestor I had doubts about exactly those pharameters, good observations. I wanted to mean that he wasn't a good passer, below the average taking into account a NT big team player who was starter in WC 1986 won by his team, I don't know if I'm expressing well. It's not the same to say "he's below the average in pass" in for example Costa Rica's league than say it in a big NT. I've assigned that value because he made secure passes and most of it were succesful, just for that I've assigned 74 in SPA, which isn't a good value TBH. He didn't try difficult passes, just basic and by 4/5 metres, but he did it well; because of these reasons I've opted to put that value; probably could be a point worse but I think that with 74 will be fine. About LP, he was good, better than the average and I told this:
vickingo_73 wrote:and had difficults to control difficult balls and make an accurate pass, so he prefered to make secure passes or try a long pass (was better doing this but was more speed than accuracy, by side to forwards).
Mostly of his long passes were to his side's teammate forward, and to the blank space, and with nice accuracy. BTW 77 isn't an impressive value, but enough to represent these type of long crosses.
And about DEF/RESP, also It's difficult to rate, because he was good in defence, really good positioning and one of the bases of Bilardo's team. As you know that team was defensivly excellent with 3-5-2 or 5-3-1-1, and Clausen did it as RWB/RB having excellent performances in defence. I wanted to assign him a better value indeed, but with that value is enough, and because of this I've assigned not so excellent value in RESP, but as you said it, probably he could have something like 73 in DEF (-1) and increase his RESP to 82/83 (+1/+2), and will be better.
About Aguero, I firmly believe that it's necessary, mostly that I've put him in the All Star team, but no problem. The next time that I'd have a modern player, before post and explain it, I'll ask you if it's necessary
Jurgens/Brezza/Plava Cigra; can I post Clausen with those tweaks? Also, an user asked me by PM a Pastoriza's classic set, I have it and i think that's needed; could I post here to be analysed as the others before? Thanks.
PLAYER INDEX CARDS: S01 - Marauding S05 - 1-touch play S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills S16 - Roulette Skills S21 - Step On Skills
ATTACK / DEFENCE AWARENESS: OFF
DESCRIPTION Pablo Daniel Osvaldo began his professional playing career at the Club Atletico Huracan in Argentina, making here the lower divisions to reach First (curiously, only played in Huracan, and therefore in Argentina in the second category of argentine football). The coach who made his debut was Fernando "Tete" Quiroz in 2004. Osvaldo in this era was in full stage of "taste" of professional football because he did not have much experience in the lower divisions as by its great condition, it was quickly gone from category to category, making a lot of goals. In their first matches of strengthening, physical and mental development in Huracan, proved a more habilodoso front that strong. With good definition, great response to grab rebounds, diving and above all, wealth technique. It was one of the forwards who broke the myth that the youth ranks of soccer center forward should be a robust and super physical. Their individual power immediately allowed to land european football, in Italy, and then build a great career in that country. ATT & RES: Commonly Pablo was easy to escape his markers inside and outside the area. You could say that despite being very young, got a superior knowledge as to what concerns the "secret area". Repeatedly surprised by his ability to invent spaces in the area, once when no one realized it. It was a problem for opposing defenders, no doubt. As regards Response, well, he deserves a yellow number simply because it was a "bounce" excellent. He had a great vision and ADVANCE for possible rebounds in the plays important matches. Was almost always located in the right place to anticipate and respond to all types of moves.
EXPLANATIONS: TS & ACC: Not much to say here, the surprise factor was undoubtedly speed. He cccelerate very fast and I got a good max speed, accompanied by his good agility too. SA, SP, ST: A decent shot precision for a young striker, at the time. Sometimes he missed goals unusual, but that was part of his limited experience at that time. So, sometimes wandering and sometimes in goals very difficult goals. In terms of firepower, as in SA, had a decent power. It was not a gunner, but not a defining light. It also has a shooting technique almost yellow, as I had a good ability to shoot in difficult positions, and still carry risk of goal. TECH: Possessing an great wealth technique that allowed him to stand above the rest of the forwards, especially the front of the second category of argentine football that their best skill is not just the technique. Is undoubtedly the ball very well and develops a very correct. Osvaldo has now further enhanced this abilitie. AGG: What else to say it was a striker who constantly sought goal, making cross lines, diagonals and accurate movements entering the area. His mentality in this respect also helped a little, and that at crucial moments of the game, never tired of entering the area with diagonal lines. MEN: While in Huracan not the symbol or baluate of the team, it was not a striker commonly called lazy. You could say that in this respect average good and bad (more good than bad).
Posted Clausen in 80's section. When some mod have time, please update with the new format to add him to the database. Thanks! I'll post here Pastoriza, Sa, Ferreiro and probably Bernao and Grillo but I'm looking for info and watching videos of them.
INFO: Francisco Pedro Manuel Sá (born October 25, 1945, in Las Lomitas, Formosa) is a retired Argentine football defender.
Sá holds the record for the most Copa Libertadores titles, he won six; 4 consecutive titles with Club Atlético Independiente between 1972 and 1975, and a further 2 with Boca Juniors in 1977 and 1978.
Sá started his career with Central Goya in the lower leagues, he then had a spell with Huracán de Corrientes before joining River Plate in 1969.
In 1971 Sá joined Independiente where he was part of the team that won the Metropolitano 1971 title followed by an unprecedented four consecutive Copa Libertadores titles. He also won the first of his two Intercontinental Cup title in 1973.
In 1976 Sá was transferred to Boca Juniors where he won a further six major titles, 2 Metropolitano, 2 Copa Libertadores, 1 Nacional and 1 Intercontinental Cup. In his time at Boca he played 195 games for the club in all competitions, scoring 2 goals.
After leaving Boca in 1981 Sá played for Gimnasia de Jujuy for one season before his retirement in 1982.
Trophies & Tournaments: 1971 Metropolitano Primera Division Argentina - Independiente 1972 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1973 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1973 Intercontinental Cup - Independiente 1974 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1975 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1975 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1976 Metropolitano Primera Division Argentina - Boca Juniors 1977 Nacional Primera Division Argentina - Boca Juniors 1977 Copa Libertadores - Boca Juniors 1977 Intercontinental Cup - Boca Juniors 1978 Copa Libertadores - Boca Juniors 1981 Metropolitano Primera Division Argentina - Independiente
Pancho Sa, the man with more Libertadores Cup in the history, is a legend for sure in all South America, known mostly by this. Amazing central back who his performances were consistent along his whole career. He won between 1972 and 1978 6 Libertadores Cup in Independiente and then in Boca Juniors, simply incredible.
About his stats, now I can compare him with other CB's as Villaverde or Trossero for example, or also with Clausen because he also played as SB many times (mostly in Boca Juniors but sometimes played in that position in Independiente too). Really a simple player to rate basing me in info and some matches that I could watch of him. Typical southamerican central back of those years in big teams of Argentina mostly: secure in defence, don't go forward too much, good aerial play and ordening the team constantly with winner mentality (is there any doubt about this?).
About his DEF/RESP ratio I wanted to make a significant difference between those because he was an excellent man marking, he waits for the opponent all the time necessary and in the last part of his dribble; he stole the ball. Unpassable sometimes I can compare with the current Julian Velazquez in Independiente too, very similar saving the obvious distances and the modern game, but it's valid the comparision. I've opted to put at 83 his DEF because I've also assigned him the Marking star to help him in this labour and also to compensate his non-good response. He wasn't an anticipator, as I've said before he was more a solid and with mentality of force marker. So, with 83 in DEF + Star + 78 in RESP will be nice represented. About his technical skills, weren't good also passing. He limited his labour to steal the ball and try to give the ball to a teammate most accurately as possible could did. Even when he played as SB, he didn't go to attack because for example in Independiente Commisso played as RSB and he was on attack and Sa worked as Deep Cover sideback. So because of this his low AGG/ATT. Also with passing, nothing special, average for a CB who doesn't try difficult passes and have problems with it, short and long. 76 in LPS to represent his long crosses forward, not accurate but fast to find a teammate. He was a really more than decent header, due to his tiny body he was good to jump and doing great, winning taller players than him in defence, as CB and as SB. Nothing special in his accuracy but always winning in defence, based all his aerial game in his jump. About teamwork, he had a really great understanding with his teammates, ordening all the time, shouting and being a specie of DF leader (he doesn't deserve the card but he was a really amazing teamworker in this sense).
INFO: Zurdo López began his career at the club Estudiantes de La Plata, soon moved to the CA Ferro Carril Oeste, Argentina and then to record champions River Plate, with whom he 1968-1970 but only three times was runner-up in series. In the summer of 1970, Lopez moved to CA Independiente, with whom he celebrated the biggest success of his active playing career. With this club he won the Argentine championship in 1971, from 1972 to 1975 four times in a row, the Copa Libertadores and 1973, finally, the World Cup. After five years at Independiente López moved to the Colombian club Atletico Nacional de Medellin, with whom he won the championship in 1976 immediately.
Club 1964-1966 Estudiantes LP 87 appearances / 1 goals 1967 Ferro 23 appearances 1968-1970 River Plate 70 appearances / 1 goals 1971-1975 Independiente 136 appearances / 1 goals 1976 Atlético Nacional de Medellín
Trophies & Tournaments: 1971 Metropolitano Primera Division Argentina - Independiente 1972 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1973 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1973 Intercontinental Cup - Independiente 1974 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1975 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1975 Copa Libertadores - Independiente 1976 Primera Division Colombia - Atlético Nacional de Medellín
Now that I have more Independiente's players in the database I can follow a criteria of how to assign values taking into account those of made previously, so all these numbers are followed by the before players created as Villaverde, Trossero, Pavoni, etc. About Miguel Angel Lopez, was a strange case of defender, why? He was pure left footed but all his life played as "2", I mean as RCB, and probably was this his significant difference with the rest of defenders of 70's. He was participating in all Libertadores Cup's consecutive won by Independiente between 1972-1975, something unique and incredible in SouthAmerica. He was a really solid marker (as was charasteristic in the era, first defend for a CB and then if have time go forward), but the difference with Pancho Sa was his technique and passes: were really nice to be a hard defender. Awesome mentality as that whole team, a "winner" mental team (also showed in titles), never give up and go to look for the results as home or visitor. About his style of playing, solid in 1 on 1, hard to pass through his section and doing a really nice centralback line with Sa and Pavoni as LB (also with Commisso as RB). In aerial balls he wasn't nothing special in spite of being really tall (186 cm) to the era and probably he didn't need it too much because of Pavoni and Sa were good in stopped balls to the opponents. He was a really more than average passer CB, Sa wasn't good, so he gave the ball to the "Zurdo" (Lefty) Lopez and he tried always a good pass to the midfielders (probably Semenewicz or Pastoriza), and sometimes also went forward dribbling the ball and pass the ball even to a forward. Definitely worse than Trossero in passing in accuracy (78) but pretty similar in the destine of the ball worried about the speed, I've sitted both at the same level (76). In terms of agility, and despite having a big body, he was really good to change the direction of the dribble, doing nice dribbles in defensive positions and also he needs it to represent those movements, probably the same of Trossero in this case taking into account his body (height+weight). About defensive positioning, he was far from Villaverde's and even worse than Trossero but not too much. With 82 in DEF + 80 in RESP he'll be pretty solid as he used to be but not so impressive defender, and will be far from Villaverde's positioning and Trossero's anticipation; to mark some differences between them.
Last edited by Vickingo on 2011 Oct 17, 00:56, edited 3 times in total.
SPECIAL ABILITIES: ★ Dribbling ★ Reaction ★ Outside
PLAYER INDEX CARDS: P04 - Darting Run P10 - Incisive Run S01 - Marauding S06 - Outside Curve
ATTACK / DEFENCE AWARENESS: S/OFF
DESCRIPTION: Mauro Ramiro Milano is an outside front that came from the lower divisions of Club Atletico Huracan in Argentina. After excellent performances in the lower divisions in Huracan, accomplished debut in the "Globo" and First Division in 2002 of hand by then technical director Carlos Babington. After playing a few games since that debut, Hurricane category falls in 2003, but he is 1 years more. After to Huracan season that not winning promotion to the First Division, is transferred to Queretaro of Mexico in 2005. In this same team fails to maintain regularity or football or when it comes to games. Following this misstep in Mexico, Milano becomes the club where he was born, Huracan. It becomes a permanent fixture, taking advantage of the difficult situation facing the club but no problems. At that time he was still young, but he lacked authority in the games. It was the figure of the team who managed to return to First Division in 2007, achieving superlative levels since the 2005 season until 2007. Milano is a front that moves through the sides, sometimes in the extreme positions to assist in the discharge of the ball. It has an incredible speed, amazing technique and a great definition in front of goal. At that time, Mauro was young, but it seemed he had played 20 years in First Division. You could say that he "disrespect" to their rivals, by how well he played. He was brave and bold against any rival. That has put him among the best players in the history of Huracan, who were born in the lower divisions of the club. Unfortunately after lesions completely invaded and never managed to settle on a team, unable to return to demonstrate their ability in the least.
EXPLANATIONS: ATT / DEF / AGG: Tapping the maxima for SS numbers of good and regular yields, Mauro was a great connoisseur of movement when facing opponents markers and escape. As DEF, certainly deserves a normal number for a player like that, and it was not a great partner in terms of the team record (again influenced by their MEN), but he was lazy to help. In terms of AGG, well, not much to say, he was a poacher's goal. I tried many accurate diagonal passes to the waiting. His aggressiveness more general potential made him one of the best strikers in argentine football from 2005 to 2007. BAL / STA: Well, he was not precisely what is called "big" at all, although it was not wet toilet paper. I had enough to display their football without being too toppled by rivals. When it comes to STA, well, deserves a number 1 or 2 points more than normal for some SS, did not tire easily (though it certainly was not a tractor that ran 90 minutes). Clarification is necessary in case. TS / ACC / RES: Explanations of TS? Well, clearly the overall speed was the best ability to Milano. I got a very good top speed, and besides, getting it very easily thanks to its enormous acceleration. Combining these 2 skills, Mauro became a very desiquilibrante player. As for RES, namely that it was the best aspect of their football. Sometimes it was difficult to respond in difficult moves, rebounding, etc, but neither showed a response action super young player. An average is good. TEC / AGI / DA / DS: The technique.. the technique: FABULOUS. Like most of the players who stood out in Huracan, was (and is) the owner of an exquisite technique. He helped to make everything: great ball handling and necessary luxuries. If you find a look for Milano, is, without doubt, his technique. There are many explanations in your AGI, as Mauro was near an orange number. As every player with great talent in TS and ACC, changed directions and thoughts immediately, specifically and without wasting time. To explain its DA, just have to say that he had the ball tied to the foot, did not escape easily. This ability clearly goes hand in hand with his technique, forming a spectacular ball handling. His DS was also another skill To discard, since the ball on the foot was very fast. Another factor that shaped his desiquilibrante speed. SPA / SPS / LPA / LPS: His short pass was accurate and not as fast, as evidenced by the numbers that I have. Not all SS have green number SPA, Milano, but if warranted, as he had some facility in all aspects of the game, even the pass (in this case, short). As for his long pass, good, Mauro desiquilibrant always looking for the two bands of the court and throw fliers centers and forwards who came to the area. He threw very good facilities in terms of precision and speed. You could say that a good SS does not throw long passes is not a good SS, and Milano did not belong to this group of second front. SA / SP / ST: Well, he clearly had a good accuracy in the shot, which allowed him, at least in Huracan, convert a lot of goals. When I had the opportunity to score goals, not waste, because as I said, I had a good precision. For the SP, does not deserve a yellow number because it was never requested to launch powerful shots, but more placed at the angle for example.. it also is a normal number for a SS. Finally, to suggest the ST, I must say that was responsible for making more beautiful goals than score a goal "ugly". He had a football sense in this regard. FKA / CUR: To say about his FKA? Perhaps a sentence of Huracan technician at that time, Antonio Mohamed, will explain this issue: "For Mauro it is easier score goals on free throws on penalties", nothing more to say. As for his CUR, he had a great effect on his free throws and shooting. Always looking for more technical shot which required, and here demonstrated his great ability to give an excellent effect on his shots. HEA / JUM: Not much to explain here.. sincerely clearly neither the header nor his jumping skills were the best of Milano. The emphasis was placed on other aspects of football. MEN / TW: As I explained earlier in DEF, Milano was not lazy when it comes to play but also a player that brings a lot of sacrifice to the computer, so a green number for that time in Milano, is perfect. As regards the TW must be said that a team did not play TOO, nor was highly individualistic. He knew it was a great player and so I always wanted to demonstrate their individual strength, but did not mind playing as a team.
After speaking to Nrby I've decided to semi-close of the classic section from new sets for the time being. With the new alternative stat section we've been given a much better medium for player sets old and new, and really this thread is designed to stop the main threads of a player getting de-railed and littered with inaccurate sets, and now we have a whole forum for that!
Needless to say, if sets from the alternative stat section warrant a place in the classics, we'll move them over. Long time trusted members can continue posting their sets as normal.