Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

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Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Xyder » 2008 Dec 10, 16:08

Collaboration between Xyder, Plava Čigra & Tom

Nickname: "El Divino"

Club: RCD Espanyol (1929/1930) | Real Madrid (1930/1933)

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INFO:

Ricardo Zamora Martí­nez (born: 21/01/1901), nicknamed "El Divino", was noted for wearing a cloth cap and a white polo-neck jumper on the field, a look later copied by several of his contemporaries. He claimed it was to protect him from both the sun and his opponents. He was also noted for his bravery. In 1929 while playing for Spain against England, he carried on playing despite breaking his sternum. Spain won the game 4-3, becoming the first team from outside of the British Isles to defeat England. Zamora is also remembered for a spectacular last minute save he made in the 1936 Copa de España final while playing for Real Madrid against FC Barcelona. The award for the best goalkeeper in La Liga, the Ricardo Zamora Trophy, is named in his honour and he was voted one of the greatest players of the 20th century by World Soccer magazine. He was also Spain's most capped player for 38 years until being surpassed by José Ángel Iribar.

Zamora was also the subject of controversy throughout his career. He allegedly enjoyed drinking Cognac and smoking up to three packs of cigarettes a day. During the 1920 Olympic Games he was sent off against Italy after punching an opponent and on the way back from the same tournament he was arrested, imprisoned and fined for attempting to smuggle Havana cigars. In 1922 he was suspended for a year when he lied to the tax authorities about the signing on fee he received when he returned to RCD Español. He also received 40,000 pesetas of the 150,000 peseta fee that took him from RCD Español to Real Madrid.

Zamora began his career as a junior with Universitari SC before signing for RCD Español in 1916. He helped RCD Español win the Campionat de Catalunya in 1918 before an argument with one of the club's directors saw him being transferred to local rivals FC Barcelona in 1919. After three successful seasons at Barça he returned to Español in 1922. On 2 February 1929, he made his La Liga debut with RCD Español during the competitions inaugural season. In the same year he also helped the club win both the Campionat de Catalunya and their first ever Copa del Rey in 1929. The team was coached by Jack Greenwell and also included Ricardo Saprissa. In the quarter finals of the Copa del Rey they beat Athletic Madrid 9-3 on aggregate before beating eventual La Liga champions, FC Barcelona, 3-1 in the semi-finals and Real Madrid 2-1 in the final. After playing 26 La Liga games for RCD Español, he joined Real Madrid in 1930.

Between 1919 and 1922 Zamora was a prominent member of the legendary FC Barcelona team, coached by Jack Greenwell, that also included his close friend Josep Samitier, Sagibarba, Paulino Alcántara and Félix Sesúmaga. During his time at FC Barcelona he helped the team win the Campionat de Catalunya three times and the Copa del Rey twice.

In 1930 Zamora signed for Real Madrid, at the time known as Madrid CF. He was one of several new arrivals, and among the others was Jacinto Quincoces. During the 1931–32 season they helped the club win La Liga for the first time. The following season Zamora and Quincoces were joined at the club by Josep Samitier and the trio helped Real retain the title. In 1934 Francisco Bru took over as the Real coach and he guided Zamora and company to victory in two Copa de España finals. In 1934 they beat a Valencia CF team coached by Jack Greenwell 2-1. The 1936 final saw Real Madrid meet FC Barcelona for the first time in a cup final. Despite playing with ten men for most of the game, the Madrid club beat Barça 2-1 at the Mestalla. Barça’s attempts to equalise in the final minutes were thwarted by Zamora’s spectacular save from Josep Escolà.


HONOURS:

Club:

RCD Espanyol
Copa del Rey: 1928–29
Catalan Champions: 1917–18, 1928–29

FC Barcelona
Copa del Rey: 1919–20, 1921–22
Catalan Champions: 1919–20, 1920–21, 1921–22

Real Madrid
La Liga: 1931–32, 1932–33
Copa de España: 1933–34, 1935–36

Country:
Catalonia
Copa Princep de Asturies: 1922, 1924, 1926
Spain
Olympic Games: Silver medalist 1920


VIDEOS:




ADDITIONAL INFO:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Zamora

http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/1193041516860/1202817724631/jugador/JugadorLegendario/Zamora.htm

http://hallofameperico.wordpress.com/category/0limp0-blanquiazul/zamora-0limp0-blanquiazul/

Last edited by Plava Čigra on 2011 Jan 10, 17:51, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Falco » 2010 May 05, 04:45

He is much taller than 1.81, in all the photos i've seen of him he looks much taller than average footballers.

I have info, that he is 1.94, but i don't think he is THAT tall, eventhough it does make sense

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby zguc » 2010 May 05, 12:25

About the debate no longer need to waste time, I think the most realistic option is the height 186 and certainly increase the BB and MEN in orange.

El orgullo y desafío.
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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Sep 27, 19:19

Was he so much better than, let's say a modern Julio Cesar, or even Casillas?

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Xyder » 2010 Sep 28, 23:13

Undoubtely, he was a modern keeper encapsulated in a keeper from 30's. He was the first reference on spanish football, secure, with a great character that let him to be a legend in Real Madrid, Espanyol and spanish NT, but spanish NT therefore wasn't a reference, he had three or four great players (like Quincoces, Samitier, Lángara, Luis Regueiro...), but lack consistence to be a great team.
Also he was the reference of Lev Yashin, the russian keeper visit Spain in the EURO '64, Yashin was asked who was his reference to be a great keeper, the black spider said Zamora was his first reference and a keeper who have learned a lot after see some matches of him in WC 1934. After that, Yashin meet Zamora the day before EURO '64 final (there's a photo about that moment, but it's on a book that I can't found nowadays).

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Sep 29, 00:10

Aha OK, I understand, thanx for the explanation Xyder.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Xyder » 2010 Sep 29, 01:18

In fact, the keeper who receive less goals (in % goals/matches with a minimum of 19 matches if I'm not wrong), receive the Zamora's trophy in honour to this great keeper.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Albo7 » 2010 Sep 29, 12:56

I had never heard of him. I was just asking if he was better then this modern keepers, after Xyder informed me and after some research of my own, I need to apologise for comparing this great keeper with the likes of Casillas. From what I read, this keeper is one hell of a legend.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Plava Čigra » 2011 Jan 10, 17:53

Here is Zamora update I mentioned in Plánička's thread.


1. Updated Height: 194-->186 cm - Judging by the pictures he's definitely not 194 cm tall.

2. Attack: 32-->30 - Couldn't find any proof/reason for above average Attack.

3. Defence: 94-->96 - Together with his reflexes this was his main asset. Most of the pre-War keepers relied on their on-the-line positioning and reflexes while they tend to punch the ball away without leaving their goal line. Well, Zamora is a typical example of such keeper, with one "small" difference... he perfected that playing style and because of that many consider him as one of the greatest keepers in football history.

4. Balance: 88-->90 - His Balance was a bit underrated when 194 cm height was used (I thought about giving him 89/90 for BB), but now I'm pretty sure 90 is a good value for him (Plánička's on 89, while Banks is on 90). Although he didn't like to leave his line in 1-1 situations opponents really felt his presence during crosses (which came 3-4m from the goal line).

5. Stamina: 69-->67 - I don't think his Stamina should be that close to 70s because he wasn't the keeper who leaves his line. Also, one might add that he didn't live like most of the footballers do, but this is not too important for this downgrade.

6. Top Speed: 69-->67, Acceleration: 70-->68 - Due to his playing style he didn't have the need to leave his line so I assume he doesn't need such high speed values.

7. Aggression: 56-->52 - Pre-War keeper who stick to his line in most of the situations (almost never leaving the line in 1-1 situations). I thought about giving him value <52, but he did rarely leave his line (3-4m at the most) in order to catch crosses.

8. Mentality/Tenacity: 88-->90 - Very determined keeper, who (in most situations) didn't lose his concentration even after he received a goal. Also since I dropped his AGG to 52, I think that orange value for MEN is important in order to replicate his catching of crosses which were directed 3-4m from his line.

9. Keeper Skills: 95-->93 - As I already explained most of the pre-War keepers used their on-the-line positioning and reflexes to stop the shots. Zamora was very good at punching the ball outside of the danger, but he wasn't the one to try and catch the shots in most of the situations.*

To quote Xyder from the pm he sent me:

In fact, Zamora was also know for doing the "Zamorana". It's like punching the ball out, but with his elbow rather then his fist. It's a characteristic movement.


10. Team Work: 80-->86 - With 86 he'll be on Banks' and Plánička's level which looks ok, imo.

11. Added PES 2011 Cards - S12: 1-on-1 Keeper + PES 2011 / 2010 Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Balanced --> Defence Minded - Explanation is included in a few explanations above.

12. Sorted out various format stuff in the thread. Switched poster from Tom to Xyder (because he helped me with his good feedback to finish this update and since Tom's original stats weren't too precise; Tom's still in the credits) and added me into the credits.

***

I don't see the need to change his Jump, since I already thought he needed small downgrade in this ability (before his Height was reduced). Same goes for Agility, which I wanted to put on 86 (before his Height was reduced). Off course, this is just my opinion. ;)

***

*I believe that Keeper Skills represent combination of punching the ball outside the danger area and catching the ball, and not just purely catching the ball. In fact, I tested this pretty extensively and even keepers with high DEF (>88) and RESP (>88) and lower KS (<85) aren't able to punch the ball outside the danger area (in most of the situations). They are able to save their goal after the shot is made, but they usually deflect the ball right into the danger area thus giving the opponent team second or even third chance to score.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Futebol Arte » 2011 Mar 17, 21:46

Plava Čigra wrote:3. Defence: 94-->96 - Together with his reflexes this was his main asset. Most of the pre-War keepers relied on their on-the-line positioning and reflexes while they tend to punch the ball away without leaving their goal line.

4. Balance: 88-->90 - Although he didn't like to leave his line in 1-1 situations opponents really felt his presence during crosses (which came 3-4m from the goal line).

7. Aggression: 56-->52 - Pre-War keeper who stick to his line in most of the situations (almost never leaving the line in 1-1 situations).


Then why did you gave him PES 2011 Cards - S12: 1-on-1 Keeper?

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Xyder » 2011 Mar 17, 23:08

I know it's difficult to understand, but IMO it's difficult to understand in modern football, where the defenses are so far from keeper range in comparison with they were in pre-war football. So taking in count this, Zamora was a class in 1 on 1 situations, even near the line, covering so much space and thanks to his godly reflexes, clear the ball.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Futebol Arte » 2011 Mar 17, 23:18

Understand what you mean, you want to said that when he come in situation to punch the ball, that he come in 1-1 situation, near of his line or like Plava wrote 3-4 meters in front of his line, but why then low AGG, I know he didn't always go high in penalty area, like todays keepers, when sometimes they play third defender, but he goes sometimes higher in center of penalty box to punch the ball, with his trademark "Zamorana", I read many about this keeper and I know him very well, and this update is very good in this 3 crucial abilities DEF, RES and GKS, even I think he can have one point higher in keepers skills, it is true that he very rarely catch the ball, but he had an excellent skill for punching balls and refused all shots who comes to him..
I think that you and Plava should to stay with old values for ATT, STA, TS, ACC and in my wiew Zamora must have higher AGG..

I found this in my book about Zamora, where writes about world greatest keepers.
Tall, square-shouldered, strong and calm, thrilled by punching balls, he had perfectly positioning. The first in the world's played third defender moving deep in the field.


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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Plava Čigra » 2011 Sep 27, 15:52

I know this was posted several months ago, but I have to reply to it.

I've never read that Zamora was the first keeper who played like third defender. When the stats got updated even Xyder (who, being Spanish, probably had much more sources then me) didn't have such information. I believe that if you don't posses a book which is strictly about Zamora, such facts can't be taken as 100% bullet proof (I know this since I've stumbled upon different data, about same keepers in such compilation books).

I believe that every value we've updated has a proper reason behind it. Aggression might be the most difficult one since in the newer games you can't feel much difference between 52 and 56, but in older games (PES 5 and PES 6) some difference can be felt. I wanted to make clear distinction between him and Plánička (two different styled keepers; both very effective in their playing styles). Besides, Zamora has Mentality: 90 and that 1-on-1 Keeper card/star which will make him much more secure when he leaves his line in order to catch/punch the cross close to his line (it will also make him win 1-1 duels with opposition's attackers more often).


As for STA, TS and ACC is concerned, I will quote my previous explanations:

Plava Čigra wrote:Stamina: 69-->67 - I don't think his Stamina should be that close to 70s because he wasn't the keeper who leaves his line. Also, one might add that he didn't live like most of the footballers do, but this is not too important for this downgrade.

Top Speed: 69-->67, Acceleration: 70-->68 - Due to his playing style he didn't have the need to leave his line so I assume he doesn't need such high speed values.



What is the reason for previous Attack: 32? He wasn't the type of keeper who started his team's attacks with long, precise balls. I don't mind him having Attack: 40 if there is a proper reason for it.

* * *

I would never underrate such iconic keeper as Zamora. Even in former Yugoslavia he was regarded by many great players as one of the greatest keepers of all times (and by some as the greatest one ever).

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Xyder » 2011 Oct 01, 11:59

Well, in our friendly discussions about him, we talked more about the confidence that he had, even being a pre-war keeper who stands more at the line than current ones. Here the history sing the praises of his strong points, but it's really hard to evaluate all the assets of his game. Could it be nice hear a radio discussion in those days or read some newspapers. Here at home, I only got some historic books about RCD Espanyol and Spanish Football. Nowadays I'm so busy to go to any newspapers library, but could be nice read the reviews of the matches and how they evaluate him in those days.
It's a pity this lack of information, but even haven't the enough info, any value we choose for him, have a reason behind and any update it's thanks to the revelation of more info, not a bad evaluation of him. So, you know Plava, if you have some new information and you have to tweak any single value, go for it.

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Re: Ricardo ZAMORA | 1929-1933

Postby Raúl-7 » 2012 Aug 04, 19:20

If Planicka is rated 94 in GK then Zamora definitely has to be on par or even better than him. He was definitely better than Ramallers or Zubizarreta (both GK 93), too. Moreover, penalty stopper should be added as he was very famous for not only saving but also for catching most of his penalties (which I read in a book about Spain's football in the first half of the twentieth century) being also an argument for is excellent goal keeping skills. Moreover, he is considered to be one of the five best goal keepers of all time, and in the rare footage I've seen of him, he deeply impressed me due to his great reflexes and "catching qualities". So this is why, in my opinion, he definitely should be rated 95 in keeper skills even compared to modern standards!

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