Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1994-1998

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Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1994-1998

Postby julgui » 2008 Dec 11, 17:27

Name: José Luis Félix Chilavert González

Nickname: "Paragua" ("Umbrella")

Image


Spoiler: show
Goalkeepers are supposed to prevent goals, not score them. But no-one seemed to have told Jose Luis Chilavert.

The outspoken, and sometimes controversial, Paraguayan made a name for himself not just between the sticks but at the other end of the field as well. An imposing presence with a huge build and a matching personality, Chilavert captained his country at two World Cups and was one of the best shot-stoppers in the world. But he also mastered the art of taking penalties and free-kicks. Chilavert amazingly scored 62 goals during his career, and his record of eight in 74 internationals is impressive when you consider he hardly ever ventured out into open play.

Aged just 15 when he made his debut with second division Sportivo Luquero, he moved to Argentinian club San Lorenzo for top flight football and first played for Paraguay in 1989. After a spell with Real Zaragoza in Spain, Chilavert returned to Argentina with Velez Sarsfield, winning a string of honours and gaining a reputation for saving penalties and scoring goals. But he achieved worldwide fame with his country and was twice voted World Goalkeeper of the Year, in 1995 and 1997.

Chilavert dominated his penalty area and organised the Paraguay defence well, barking out orders with authority. But his goals ensured him legendary status. A free-kick against Argentina during qualifying for the 1998 World Cup was one of many highlights, and he scored four times to help Paraguay return to the finals in 2002.

Chilavert led the team into the second round at France 98, keeping clean sheets in draws against Spain and Bulgaria before victory over Nigeria booked a clash with the hosts. The French also struggled to beat him until Laurent Blanc's golden goal in extra time ended Paraguay's unlikely dream. Four years later Chilavert was a fading force but still helped guide his team out of the group stage to meet Germany in the second round. He made several key saves in the game and narrowly missed the target with a free-kick late on, but could not prevent a 1-0 defeat.

Never afraid to speak his mind, Chilavert's outspoken nature has often led to controversy. He once suggested before a qualifying game against Brazil that they should hand back territory seized during a past war between the countries, and was then banned for three matches after spitting on Roberto Carlos - missing the first two matches of the 2002 World Cup as a result. He also refused to play in the 1999 Copa America, hosted by Paraguay, saying that money used for stadium improvements before the tournament should have been spent on schools and hospitals instead.


Spoiler: show
Caps:
P[spoiler]araguay: 74 appearances | 8 goals

Clubs:
_par 1982-1984 Sportivo Luqueño
_par 1984 Club Guaraní
_arg 1984-1988 San Lorenzo 122 appearances
_esp 1988-1991 Real Zaragoza 79 appearances | 1 goal
_arg 1991-2000 Vélez Sársfield 341 appearances | 48 goals
_fra 2000-2002 Strasbourg 52 appearances | 1 goal
_uru 2002-2003 Peñarol 14 appearances | 4 goals
_arg 2003-2004 Vélez Sársfield 6 appearances

Trophies & Tournaments:
_par 1984 Primera División Paraguay - Club Guaraní
_arg 1993 Torneo Clausura Primera División Argentina - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1994 Torneo Apertura Primera División Argentina - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1994 Copa Libertadores - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1994 Intercontinental Cup - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1994 Copa Interamericana - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1996 Torneo Clausura Primera División Argentina - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1996 Supercopa Sudamericana - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1997 Recopa Sudaemricana - Vélez Sarsfield
_arg 1998 Torneo Clausura Primera División Argentina - Vélez Sarsfield
_fra 2001 Coupe de France - Strasbourg
_uru 2003 Primera División Uruguaya - Peñarol
* Argentine League Player of the Year: 1996
* South American Footballer of the Year: 1996
* IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper: 1995, 1997, 1998
[/spoiler]

VIDEOS:

Spoiler: show


ADDITIONAL LINKS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Luis_Chilavert

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Luis_Chilavert

http://www.123football.com/players/c/jo ... /index.htm

http://www.thesportreview.com/tsr/2009/ ... r-scoring/

http://www.onthisdayinsport.com/page/Fo ... 42,00.html

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby SpongeBob » 2010 Sep 02, 16:25

manoloxcr17 wrote:Trophies earned migh blind your eyes to make stats too. :roll:

Im big fan of Chilavert, but you need to "Take of your fan shirt" for make accurate stats thats all. If you wanna overrate him is up to you people. :P



Well you didn't think so when you made all those Peruvians players. But anyway...

I don't have any fan shirt to pull off, for example I was first to say to Plava Čigra our local hero in Dalmatia Bernard Vukas is overrated in TS,ACC,BB,AGI. So...

Numbers posted by julqui are apropriate judging on from what I saw from 1994 when I first watched him in that final and the last time in 2002. BTW you probably
weren't even born in 1994.

In 2002 when Paraguay faced Germany, the German commentators said it's hard to say who's better, although Chilavert was already 37 and not anymore on old
great level of WC '98 when he was selected as the best GK of the tournament by far. Same things said even Netzer who was one of the commrntators and Kahn.

Have you even seen all players here? You can find redicuolous Joel Bats on DEF 92-93 :roll: Rogerio is on RES 91 :roll:

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby manoloxcr17 » 2010 Sep 02, 16:39

I try to do my best for make accurate stats for peruvian players, if you think they are overrated you can make suggestions instead of beeing sarcastic. ;) I think that I make a good work with my players, but like I said if you have suggestions, they are welcome. Dont underestimate my knowledge about South American players. I know that I really know them, all of them (well, most of them :lol: ).

You're right, I don't saw him in WC 1994. I saw him in WC 2002 and he wasn't even the shadow of his great seasons in Velez Sarsfield. Since he go to Strasbourg he was never the "old Chila".

But, ok, do whatever you want with this thread. I think is useless try to convince each other about this.

Last edited by manoloxcr17 on 2010 Sep 02, 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby julgui » 2010 Sep 02, 16:42

I do not understand that has to do the Chilavert 2002. When I try to shape as explained says is the: 1994-1998.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby manoloxcr17 » 2010 Sep 02, 16:46

SpongeBob explain Chilavert's playing in 2002, mate. Image

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby Boa Morchi » 2010 Sep 02, 16:48

Well, can we all agree topic should be Jose Luis CHILAVERT 1994-1998, being this the prime of his carreer?

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby julgui » 2010 Sep 02, 16:53

I would do until 1999 (part of the dream team of america). Then and there began their natural decay.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby SpongeBob » 2010 Sep 02, 17:02

manoloxcr17 wrote:I try to do my best for make accurate stats for peruvian players, if you think they are overrated you can make suggestions instead of beeing sarcastic. ;) I think that I make a good work with my players, but like I said if you have suggestions, they are welcome. Dont underestimate my knowledge about South American players. I know that I really know them, all of them (well, most of them :lol: ).

You're right, I don't saw him in WC 19942. I saw him in WC 2002 and he wasn't even the shadow of his great seasons in Velez Sarsfield. Since he go to Strasbourg he was never the "old Chila".

But, ok, do whatever you want with this thread. I think is useless try to convince each other about this.



You first started to provocate with that fan shirt things and I just answered. I don't estimate your knowledge, but your suggestions are apropriate for Chilavert in
2002 not in '94-'98.
If can accept high 80's for DEF and RES if Kahn,Schmeichel and Preud'homme also get lowered to that values and all the other from 90's also in apropriate quantity
get down. But if not than he's like julqui made. Only thing I can discuss is DEF coming down to 92, a point below Beara, and that's all.


You're right, I don't saw him in WC 19942


Wtf?! Which WC is that and who won it? I was mentioning Intercontinental Cup final in 1994 when we (AC Milan) lost to Velez. That was first time I saw him.
This proves you even don't read previous posts. You just say what you want to say without any explanations. This forum becomes the Mod's government, more
and more.
I didn't want to insult you but it's not simple to accept wrong suggestions from someone who was 3-4 years old when Chilavert shined

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby manoloxcr17 » 2010 Sep 02, 17:08

And eror of typing, sorry mate. And I read it bad. My bad. :D

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby SpongeBob » 2010 Sep 02, 17:30

I know about that, here's another example:

manoloxcr17 wrote:You're right, I don't saw him in WC 1994


Obviously it's not your day. Or you messed up Chilavert with someone else. For your information DEAR MODERATOR Paraguay and Chilavert didn't take part
on WC 1994. BTW I don't remember anybody mentioning WC 1994 :roll:

I repeat: I said Intercontinental Cup in 1994 was the first time I saw Chilavert. If you don't know what's that I'll explain:
Intercontinental Cup was the name of the match between Champions League winner and Copa Libertadores winner. For your information we lost 2-0 by goals from
Trotta (penalty) and Asad. We also had Costacurta red-carded late in the game, I don't remember excatly the minute anymore 'cause it was long 16 years ago.

Than I said he was selected as the best GK on WC '98 in France, constantly producing miracles to lead Paraguay's team.

So I don't understand what WC 1994 you mention? :roll: This puts shadow on all you said

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby Boa Morchi » 2010 Sep 02, 17:35

Yeah, he's also considered 5th better GK of all history according to IFFHS, but you know, what do they know? I can tell you I saw him play almost every weekend in my teenage days

Well, can we discuss his stats finally?

IMO era should be 1994-98, till WC '98, but if you want to extend it till '99 its ok.

Height: Any reliable source? I've found sources going from 188 to 192(wiki)

Stats - Agree with all of julgi's suggestions except:

Agility: 78 Seems fine, +1pt Schmeichel, considering what i said in previous post.

DA: 74 as stated before

Shot accuracy: sure he should get a standard value? he sometimes cached rebounds of penalties or fks and did it with accuracy

Ment: No so sure thaaat high, he had wining mentality but you know it affects also his tendency to go out the goal to collect the ball, and he didnt do that so often

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby julgui » 2010 Sep 02, 17:45

Boa Morchi wrote:Agility: 78 Seems fine, +1pt Schmeichel, considering what i said in previous post.
DA: 74 as stated before


I see it, could be quietly.

Boa Morchi wrote:Shot accuracy: sure he should get a standard value? he sometimes cached rebounds of penalties or fks and did it with accuracy


While it is true that, only scored two goals on the rebound of his criminal and both with the goalkeeper on the floor. Consider that number?

Boa Morchi wrote:Ment: No so sure thaaat high, he had wining mentality but you know it affects also his tendency to go out the goal to collect the ball, and he didnt do that so often


But Chilavert and bail out pretty much. Since leaving the area remember pulling the team forward or that famous kick Ruggeri ("quebralooo") by going to protect a ball that went to the side.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby manoloxcr17 » 2010 Sep 02, 17:47

SpongeBob wrote:I know about that, here's another example:

manoloxcr17 wrote:You're right, I don't saw him in WC 1994


Obviously it's not your day. Or you messed up Chilavert with someone else. For your information DEAR MODERATOR Paraguay and Chilavert didn't take part
on WC 1994. BTW I don't remember anybody mentioning WC 1994 :roll:

I repeat: I said Intercontinental Cup in 1994 was the first time I saw Chilavert. If you don't know what's that I'll explain:
Intercontinental Cup was the name of the match between Champions League winner and Copa Libertadores winner. For your information we lost 2-0 by goals from
Trotta (penalty) and Asad. We also had Costacurta red-carded late in the game, I don't remember excatly the minute anymore 'cause it was long 16 years ago.

Than I said he was selected as the best GK on WC '98 in France, constantly producing miracles to lead Paraguay's team.

So I don't understand what WC 1994 you mention? :roll: This puts shadow on all you said


Like I said I read it bad. ;) Stop creating probelms mate. :mrgreen:

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby SpongeBob » 2010 Sep 02, 17:55

manoloxcr17 wrote:Stop creating probelms mate


I don't see any problems here, except of rediculous first post. I just named some mistakes in last 2 messages.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby manoloxcr17 » 2010 Sep 02, 17:58

Ok mate, you're great searching mistakes in post. Good work! :)

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby Boa Morchi » 2010 Sep 02, 18:03

julgui wrote:
Boa Morchi wrote:Shot accuracy: sure he should get a standard value? he sometimes cached rebounds of penalties or fks and did it with accuracy


While it is true that, only scored two goals on the rebound of his criminal and both with the goalkeeper on the floor. Consider that number?


OK
julgui wrote:
Boa Morchi wrote:Ment: No so sure thaaat high, he had wining mentality but you know it affects also his tendency to go out the goal to collect the ball, and he didnt do that so often


But Chilavert and bail out pretty much. Since leaving the area remember pulling the team forward or that famous kick Ruggeri ("quebralooo") by going to protect a ball that went to the side.


Still, with 96 is +1pt of Kahn, no sure he was superior in that.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby julgui » 2010 Sep 02, 18:07

Boa Morchi wrote:While it is true that, only scored two goals on the rebound of his criminal and both with the goalkeeper on the floor. Consider that number?


Misinterpreted, I wondered what value would you say should be.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby SpongeBob » 2010 Sep 02, 18:42

manoloxcr17 wrote:Ok mate, you're great searching mistakes in post. Good work! :)



All in order to have accurrate stats.


Boa Morchi wrote:Still, with 96 is +1pt of Kahn, no sure he was superior in that.


I think 95 is enough for him.

Also I'll somehow still put his DEF on 92, just a point under Beara. Although I think Beara can even claim 94, but since he's on 93 I'd give Chila 92.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby lucardax5d » 2010 Nov 15, 16:01

87 in KS is very high.. in fact the history of Chilavert is very strange. Archer is a very overrated. Shortcuts is a good goalie, nothing more than that, shortcuts. The problem is that Chilavert loved him very much because he kicked a free kick was much talk on the field, etc,but Shortcuts, was a good keeper, not great. For that, I think 87 is high. For my part I suggest 85 or 84.

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby mcmattie » 2010 Dec 10, 10:37

Wow I don't know this guy! Nice stats for a goalkeeper! :o Never saw a keeper with playmaking abilties. ;)

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Re: Jose Luis CHILAVERT | 1997-1998

Postby santi.arg » 2011 Mar 03, 07:00

yeah pk taker most be!! he kicks always to the same site and the keepers knows that, but they couldn't stop the shot
i'm fan of chilavert, and his skills are dificult to point. he wasn't a great jumper, or a fast player but he have a great intuition and anticipation of the game and the shoots
i dont kwon how to get that to the stats but that was his better GK ability
in the other term, his shoot i think he was the greatest scorer keeper of all time. thats my opinion

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