Juan Sebastián Verón | 1999-2001 | 2004-2006 | 2008-2011

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Juan Sebastián Verón | 1999-2001 | 2004-2006 | 2008-2011

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 11, 21:35

- 1999-2001

Nickname: "La Brujita"

Club: SS Lazio



* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


- 2004-2006

Club: F.C. Internazionale Milano



Spoiler: show
short explantions:
[spoiler]atk: mostly just sat back in the midfield and moved around there, pretty decent at finding space around the pitch when he did venture forward.
:def pretty shit.. offered little to def, v Wanted to go lower, but he was more defensivly inclined at inter.. so would be wrong to give him lower than lazio set.azio set.
resp: hardly pursued defenders or tried to intercept anything. He usually would have at least 1 shield protecting for him.. he wasn't there to defend.
passing: world class without doubht. Hesitant on giving him 90 sps but it can probably be taken. lpa never got any worse at this. lps needs a slight raise.
speed: awful in short distances, but due to his long legs.. he could reach a decent speed.
da: still classy, little loss there.
men: awful.. clearly had some stamina issues
shooting: not bad, but he just blasted them, didn't rely on placement at all... and never really had any.
tw: all that he needs to do what he did. move around in the midfield keeping play going. his playmaking ability is covered by playmaking* + passer + his huge passing stats.

unfortunatly little vids of him from inter days. heres a match video from 2 years after he left inter, so you can get an idea of the quality he still has in his passing.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


- 2008-2011

Club: Estudiantes de La Plata

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Spoiler: show
INFO:
In mid-2006, Verón made it known that he wished to return to his native Argentina for the 2006-2007 season. He received offers from Boca Juniors and River Plate, but chose his boyhood club Estudiantes de La Plata, of whom he is a declared fan and has made significant donations in the past to upgrade the club training facilities. Chelsea agreed to loan Verón to Estudiantes for a season, until the end of his contract with the English club. On 13 December 2006, he helped Estudiantes win the Apertura 2006 tournament, its first in 23 years, in a final play-off match final over Boca Juniors. Some rival fans booed him, arguably dating back to his sub-par performances during the 2002 FIFA World Cup, but Verón was ranked among the top three players in the 2006 Argentine League by sports newspaper Olé.

Following his donations to the club's training grounds, Verón was a decisive factor in the agreement with La Plata city hall to update Estudiantes' historic stadium to modern standards. Verón personally engaged then Argentine president Néstor Kirchner to kick-start the negotiations, which had been stalled by La Plata mayor Julio Alak. Verón indicated that he may run for Estudiantes president in the future.

Verón suffered from a string of minor injuries after his return from the 2007 Copa América, and missed a number of important games during the 2007-08 season. His fitness improved in time for the 2008-09 season, in which Estudiantes reached the finals of the Copa Sudamericana and secured a place in the 2009 Copa Libertadores.
In July 2007, Kevin Payne, president of Major League Soccer club D.C. United, met with Verón in Buenos Aires to discuss a possible transfer, but Verón decided to stay in Estudiantes.

In early 2008, several football personalities chose Verón as the best player in the Argentine league.

In 2009, he played in the Copa Libertadores for the second time, having seen Estudiantes eliminated in the round of 16 in the previous year by eventual champions Liga de Quito. After displaying his usual excellent level of play throughout the tournament, he found himself leading Estudiantes into the final for the first time since 1971. The Copa Libertadores has long been a special competition for Estudiantes and its fans, ever since the team won three consecutive titles from 1968-1970 with Verón's father playing a key role on the left wing. Verón certainly shared this affinity for the most prestigious title in the American continent, as evidenced by his declaration before the final: "I would trade everything I've won for this title."His dream came true as Estudiantes won the final, after an aggregate of 2-1. A 0-0 tie in La Plata and a dramatic 2-1 win away in Belo Horizonte against Brazil's Cruzeiro sealed el pincha's triumph. Verón was chosen by visitors to fifa.com as the best player of the 2009 Copa Libertadores.

Verón was twice elected South American Footballer of the Year (2008 and 2009) by Uruguayan diary El País, a title that is cited worldwide.

LITTLE EXPLANATIONS:

Well as he's retiring now in 4 matches :cry: I think that's time to prepare a set for him in these years where just impressive as he always been world class but he confirmed that in Estudiantes. He basically RE-founded the entire club, an hero for the fans and most important player of the club along with his father Juan Ramón Verón. Estudiantes was ruined when he came back in 2006 and since there they started to raise sin Veron's leadership and he got that remembered tournament stealing that to Lavolpe's Boca team in that final. Then came international amazing appearances, and finally in 2009 they got with a hell of team the Copa Libertadores. Then came the remembered and awesome performance vs the best team in the history.

Been re-viewing some moments of him in these years, and he's been a hell of player, personality, leadership and all combined with what a class...intact and in some aspects even better. Difficult to compare but I firmly believe that he's at the same level of Riquelme in terms of long passing, he was just insane in these years, for sure needs those values and I'm pretty satisfied how works in game. Just went with some Konami values but surprise for me were the same that I was thinking in before watch the default stats. He needs a set for these years as he was probably the best player in AFA with Riquelme in 00's, may be the most influential taking off Román. But what Verón did was pretty much more difficult, as he came to a ruined team and became it in an International club with awesome appearances.

I have to confess that he's one of my debilities, he's so incredible as player, too awful that in last year was plagued by injuries and he thought in retire 6 months ago but his teammates and the crowd asked him to continue by 6 months more, and despite being decided as he knew that his physique was in a clear decline; he due to his love to the club continued...the results weren't good, he played only 4 matches this tournament as he had reason. Takes a lot of time to recover after a game as he has a chronical injurie in his knee and he knows that more than nobody...but sometimes "Heart has reasons that even reason don't understand" and here he's.

A hell of player, an example to any player who love his club and give all for it...We'll all miss you Bruja :cry:

Some videos of him in this era...look at his passing skills and technique, it's just flawless:

[/quote]


Last edited by Uzair on 2010 Oct 02, 21:24, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby clinon » 2009 Aug 08, 14:45

I think his Response should be higher.

I would raise it to 84.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Uzair » 2009 Oct 19, 21:47

yeh i'd raise his response to 84 BUT i would also:
lower his attack to 78
increase his Top Speed to 78
lower his SA to 78
lower his Header to somewhere in the low 70's.

these are all small changes to make him find a more suitable place in the ladders. except header...he was never very good in the air.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Uzair » 2009 Oct 21, 13:25

also, dya think his LPA should be higher than his SPA???

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby brondbylove » 2009 Oct 28, 16:20

I would put DMF as a position of his really. Similarly to Xabi Alonso, Pirlo etc. he was perhaps twice as much playmaker as he was bouncer but he nonetheless deployed deep on the pitch where you would call him a DMF.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby p1rha » 2009 Nov 27, 17:19

I don't think he deserves to have DA 90, i can't rate him on pair with guys like Deco, Rui Costa or Pirlo in terms of ball control while dribbling. I'd rate him at 88, 1 pt above Xavi.

Also his SPA is too high. Considering that Pirlo is rated at 93 and Xabi Alonso at 90, Véron can't be in the reds for SPA. What about something like 93, same as Pirlo but with a higher SPS?

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Brezza » 2009 Nov 27, 17:45

I agree on lowering dribble accuracy, disagree with lowering short pass accuracy.

Id say he was the best all round passer of this generation alongside Guardiola and Pirlo. If you watched Veron regularly, he plays tens of simple passes all day long to go along with the exceptional, most of which are one touch at that. Just that when it gets to the 'amazing pass' bit, he plays passes that i don't think i've seen many others pull off, and many midfielders make good long balls or through-passes, but not of the Veron's level.

In terms of your comparison, prime Andrea Pirlo has 95, and I personally think Xabi Alonso is underrated on 90 id have him at 92 sort of level.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Uzair » 2009 Nov 27, 19:31

ok so 88 for dribble accuracy then?

i disagree with lowering SPA. i think it's fairly represented at 95. he was simply the excellence of pass back then. always will be too.
but about SPS, p1rha, was did you have in mind or was that suggestion only to compensate a lowering in SPA?

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Rfuna » 2010 Mar 04, 03:40

brondbylove wrote:I would put DMF as a position of his really. Similarly to Xabi Alonso, Pirlo etc. he was perhaps twice as much playmaker as he was bouncer but he nonetheless deployed deep on the pitch where you would call him a DMF.

during this period he was CMF in a 4-4-2 formation with Almeyda playing in the holding role. Stats aren't bad but need tweaking in a lot areas, mostly reducing. He needs to be turned into a CMF. right now he's too attacking. Mentality value is criminal IMO.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby Classical » 2010 Mar 04, 09:43

I am not sure about *CM but surely he is more that than *AM.

It is because I do remember him playing the deeper playmaker role like Pirlo and Alonso as refered.

Also in MU he played behind Keane, because he usually got the ball to start the offensive moves. And Keane was obviously much more of an hound than Veron.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby julgui » 2010 Mar 04, 12:45

The best position is: CM... optional AM or SMR

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby Rfuna » 2010 Mar 04, 12:53

Classical wrote:I am not sure about *CM but surely he is more that than *AM.

It is because I do remember him playing the deeper playmaker role like Pirlo and Alonso as refered.

Also in MU he played behind Keane, because he usually got the ball to start the offensive moves. And Keane was obviously much more of an hound than Veron.

This is the Lazio version of Veron. And this version played CMF in 4-4-2, close to every game.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby Classical » 2010 Mar 04, 14:30

I know it is the Lazio version.

That team had a splendid midfield with Stankovic, Nedved and Sergio Conceição besides Veron.

Also they had Simeone and Almeyda (I believe it at the same time!) for the more defensive roles.

This list of players can help us also realize that Veron was not *AM but *CM or *DM.

I say *CM or *DM because he clearly came deeper to collect the ball (yes, not only on MU days but also in Lazio, Parma and even now in Estudiantes).
Did he have technique to be a *CM? Of course he did, he also have to be a *AM, a *SS....he was clearly gifted.

Point is he could play any of the 3, but probably (due to Eriksson's tactics and not his genetic orientation) Veron did play more the *DM position.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Messias18 » 2010 Apr 23, 22:52

Rfuna wrote:Mentality value is criminal IMO.

I agree, a 78-80 (+3/5) value seems better

Rfuna wrote:Stats aren't bad but need tweaking in a lot areas, mostly reducing.

Agree too.
These can go down by 1 or 2:
Stamina: 87
Short Pass Speed: 90
Long Pass Speed: 88
Shot Power: 93
Free Kick Accuracy: 89

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 2000-2001

Postby Jez » 2010 Apr 25, 19:09

Messias18 wrote:
Rfuna wrote:Mentality value is criminal IMO.

I agree, a 78-80 (+3/5) value seems better

Rfuna wrote:Stats aren't bad but need tweaking in a lot areas, mostly reducing.

Agree too.
These can go down by 1 or 2:
Stamina: 87
Short Pass Speed: 90
Long Pass Speed: 88
Shot Power: 93
Free Kick Accuracy: 89


I agree to these, and I'll tell you why ;)

Stamina should probably be around an 84/85 level. He didn't exactly get tired but he didn't exactly run about much did he. He was and always has been a rather static player as is represented with the Aggression/Mentality ratings and so a rating like 87 just isn't really needed.
Totally agree to decreasing SPS and LPS. Especially the latter. He could ping a crossfield pass no problem, but IMO he prefered to go for accuracy over power. His passes were never really 'overhit' but were always weighted to perfection. He loved his delightful floated chipped through balls 8-) I'd personally go with about 86/87 for both.
I think Shot power is also a tad overdone and I think this is just due to this being the classics section :roll: Did he really hit them harder than Frank Lampard on a regular basis? Debatable. I'd say something in the 89 - 91 range would be better.
Not too sure about Free Kick accuracy though if I'm honest. He did have a brilliant Freekick it has to be said, so maybe it's justified. Probably best to have more opinion on the matter.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby Brezza » 2010 Apr 25, 20:30

Updated ;)

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby hsnandra » 2010 May 09, 20:46

Gwoth Type should be changed to Early / Lasting considering that he peaked when he was at an early stage in his career.

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby xeneize » 2011 Sep 07, 21:55

agree in DS/LPS and WFF, his long passes was always (nowadays too) really fast with a lot of power, and obviously with his great precision
about SPS, i think is fine, with the actual value you can replicate really well his passes of that time

i think in less RES, after the "RES re revolution" in who teh msot of the CM's have decreases, i think veron can't be the exception, he used his RES to intercept some passes, but the actual value is high IMO, never was his strong point IMO his RES, something around 81 could be better?

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby Vickingo » 2011 Sep 10, 04:12

xeneize wrote:agree in DS/LPS and WFF, his long passes was always (nowadays too) really fast with a lot of power, and obviously with his great precision
about SPS, i think is fine, with the actual value you can replicate really well his passes of that time

i think in less RES, after the "RES re revolution" in who teh msot of the CM's have decreases, i think veron can't be the exception, he used his RES to intercept some passes, but the actual value is high IMO, never was his strong point IMO his RES, something around 81 could be better?


And if we have to rate his mentality with the concept of "to hound" Veron must have lower 75 for sure.
I know that was 99-01 era, but as there isn't since 2002, I have to put here. We were going out from WC 2002 in the famous match vs Sweden. Left 20 minutes, we were 0-1 (famous Andersson FK goal), and in the ET Bielsa put Veron (was in the bench) to manage better the team (he came criticased because his AWFUL match vs England and the supposition of played bad because of he was in England and he had to go again there to play with Beckham, I don't trust this, but was an issue here). A lot of people called traitor to him. In this video the TV shows how Veron hasn't problems and doesn't hurry up to make the long stopped ball or the corner kick, and if this mentality affects (commitment to a player when the team is losing, and here we were going out and fracasating) must be really low. Here two videos:

Vs England:



Vs Sweden (famous low commitment and because of this is criticased by Argentinian people). Look at Bielsa's complaining:



Thoughts?

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Re: Juan Sebastián VERÓN | 1999-2001

Postby jurgens » 2011 Sep 10, 06:22

Updated to new format.
Reduced response to 80.
Added Inter Milan Era (2004-2006).

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