Ashley Cole

[deity86]

[BigStu]

70's can refer any value from 70-79, you seemed to be implying that I suggested a raise in sa/st to 71/72 or there abouts which is ridiculous 5 point raise, where as 68/69 is only 2 point raise which is mcuh more reasonable

[deity86]

I could agree to a slight raise in SA, he does seem to have shown an improvement but it could just be - as Van said - because the frequency of his attacks has increased, meaning he has more chance to shoot giving the impression of a more accurate shot as the chances of hitting the target are then increased. I'd disagree to a ST raise though. As Van also said he really does/has lacked the ability to get a clean connection and despite a couple of decent technical goals this seasons I don't think he's really improved in that aspect.

Also agree his Agility could probably be tweaked down slightly. Over than that, do you think it's ready for the 1st post?

[BigStu]

yes its ready for the post, but just wondering why dfence was lowered, I he plays realisticly with the new values but surely he is worthy of a green for defence?

[deity86]

Quite simply, because it felt good that way. It's nothing to do with any lack of defensive ability but with a raise to his Response and Team Work combined with his physical abilities I can't see a problem. Also when tweaking his Aggression the A/D ratio just seemed to work nicely

[Alcohomicide]

Agree with deity. His ratio balances him perfectly and he plays realistically as a result. It's that simple.

[deity86]

I agree with Alco agreeing with me. Do you want to do the honours Van?

[Tom]

His ratio balances him perfectly and he plays realistically as a result. It's that simple.

I disagree, sorry Chris (and Chris)

[deity86]

Just to clarify, you're referring to the suggested values and not the current 1st post right Tom? If so, how dare you! Do you think you're some kind of Prem/Global mod!?!

[Tom]

Do you think you're some kind of Prem/Global mod!?!

Nope, a caterpillar

And I disagree with the values in both the first post and the proposed set, for reasons that I've already stated in this thread.

[deity86]

One of those "fake" shitty looking caterpillars that hang down from trees and land on your head/clothes and go unnoticed for hours? Or the pretty, furry multi-coloured ones?

He does feel good with the suggested values if I may say so myself What have you got him at out of interest? Yes, I'm too lazy to search, though I think I can recall them.

[Nefarel]

I think his DA should stay at 79, he can still run through 2-3 opponents when given a chance.

[Alcohomicide]

Look I know Tom has his belief on Attack/Defence ratio but really I've been playing with and against and ai vs ai with deity and Vandeach's stats and that's what he plays best/realistically on. I've tried tweaking him and blah blah blah so either Tom's wrong for once or me deity and Vandeach are seeing a mirage. In any case I think he should be updated.

[Tom]

. I've tried tweaking him and blah blah blah so either Tom's wrong for once or me deity and Vandeach are seeing a mirage.

Your saying it "feels real", that's not a case of right or wrong, that's subjective. What may feel realistic for one, will not for another. Hence why there were a number of people who felt comfortable with Arshavin on an 85 for DA, rather than the higher value which a number of others said felt realistic. It would only be a case of right or wrong if we were disagreeing over, say, Ashley Cole being a good defender. Right?

Having said that, you are all wrong

No seriously, with a ladder system you simply can't bring subjectivity into it. If you cap Ashley Cole's Defence at a 74, then think of the effects it's going to have on other full-backs who play that "solid in both attacking and defending" hybrid style. It means that Lahm, despite his terrific positional sense and solid attacking off-the-ball movement, is going to have to be reduced in both Attack and Defence because of the values that, as it seems, are going to be assigned to Cole.

[Alcohomicide]

Yes, but the majority of people who post in the Arsenal threads outside of you Kendees, deity and Ken... I mean that's a hard forum to moderate.. haha. And I still think it was pointless raising Arshavin's DA. I mean how many people sit there doing ai vs ai tests? You can be sure that me deity and Vandeach tried the others values and that's 3 people they feel realistic with who you know... test stats before suggesting them. You get all kinds of opinions on what feels right, lots of variety as you say but whether it sounds big-headed or not I'd say deity, Vandeach and myself make for a pretty consistent consensus. By now if he was doing the wrong things or not doing them well enough/too well we'd have noticed. He attacks and defends in the correct manner, he feels balanced and I haven't seen an argument yet that's gonna sway me. :s

[deity86]

As I said to Chris the other day, I don't think too many people - myself included - would disagree that he would merit a higher Defence value based purely on that aspect of his game. I knew fully well when suggesting the value that it wouldn't necessarily be "ladder-friendly". It's a tough balance between "feeling" real (albeit that's hugely subjective as you said Tom ) and fitting someone correctly into the ladders, it's just the higher the value goes the less he seems to roam forward - due to the A:D ratio widening - without tweaking his Aggression to unrealistic values

[Tom]

As I said to Chris the other day, I don't think too many people - myself included - would disagree that he would merit a higher Defence value based purely on that aspect of his game. I knew fully well when suggesting the value that it wouldn't necessarily be "ladder-friendly". It's a tough balance between "feeling" real (albeit that's hugely subjective as you said Tom ) and fitting someone correctly into the ladders, it's just the higher the value goes the less he seems to roam forward - due to the A:D ratio widening - without tweaking his Aggression to unrealistic values

Who says you'd make the A:D ratio to wide. I'm in full support for a higher Attack, heck I suggested giving him a 75 for Attack I just don't see why he should be reduced to a 74 for Defence, and that's principally it.

[N3KR0]

He broke an ankle, out for three months

[BigStu]

not a disaster for chelsea, chance for YZ18 to prove himself to others who didn't follow him in russia or at euro08, however this may fuck our WC chances up as he will has only a month to regain fitness before it starts

[Paddy]

I don't think Chris is that fat for him to have been labelled as Diety in first post.

[Tom]

not a disaster for chelsea, chance for YZ18 to prove himself to others who didn't follow him in russia or at euro08, however this may fuck our WC chances up as he will has only a month to regain fitness before it starts

Surely it took you longer to come up with that nickname than the time it would have taken you to simply right "Zhirkov"?