Thiago Silva

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[master smurf]

Personally, I rate Thiago Silva as a defender in the sentence of "good". He's good enough for Serie A and against some Champions League sides but he won't be able to be compared to the standard Milan set a time ago I feel. Still a very capable defender that wouldn't go amiss in many CL-sides that sit outside of the usual title-favourite zone.

Also, having Nesta by your side aids you very, very much. Even though the experienced beast at the back didn't have a good game yesterday by any means.

But remember he is coming from Brazil and sat out half a season before he played. I say give him 2-3 yrs then we can see how far he can go as a player. He has all the qualities to be elite but will only become that if his defensive sense continues to grow.

Right now he is good and more importantly what Milan needs.

Agree with DeFrenZ TS increase - I think his ACC can go higher but I'll wait on that suggestion.

[fledarr]

I think he is very good with heading and jumping abilities, at least, at the same level with Sergio Ramos. I've watched Champions League Milan VS R.Madrid two matches, especially impressed by his header against Madrid at Bernabeu, he jumped much higher than S.Ramos, Pepe.

S.Ramos has Header:87, Jump:86
and Pepe has Header:83, Jump:84

Thiago Silva only has Header:83,Jump:82 here, which I think was somehow outdated. I would suggest giving him Header and Jump values at least similar to S.Ramos, something like Jump:87, Header:85. I also watched a couple Serie A Milan matches recently, he is indeed very good at jumping and heading, and also he is fast.

He is a relatively short centre defender, but he cleared lots of crosses, with excellent jumping ability, he is more like Ivan Cordoba type of player.

TS could go up to 84 imo

totally agree. He is fast.

You DO know that "clearing" headers need something like 60 HEA? everything more is for making passes and most importantly shots.

As far as I know, Clearing headers not only needs HEA, but also Needs JUMP, especially for his short size.
The goal he made against R.Madrid was a perfect header example which shows his heading ability, though was canceled by Refs mistake.
Besides that, I feel that considering his jumping ability, Jump:82 is very low to him. Jump:86/87 would be my suggestion.

True, JMP is needed. But since you proposed both with the same "motive"... all your suggestion lost value

Though i don't really know what his JMP value should be, so I'm okay with the one here right now

Well, first, I suggested increasing Thiago Silva's JUMP and HEA abilities based on both Goal(header) and Clearing(jump). I illustrated that by showing example he headed the ball over Sergio Ramos (Jump:86, Header:87) during the match against Real Madrid, where he jumped much higher then Ramos.

That I said he cleared lots of crossed was for that he can really jump very high considering his short of size as a centre defender, but unfortunately, you misread the situation.

second, I think we could put in this way, a fairy comparison:
Thiago Silva DOES forward to attack goal when Milan got corners or free kicks.

In Milan, there are Nesta(187cm, Jump:81, Header:87),
Ambrosini(182cm, Jump:91, Header:91),

but Thiago Silva still intended to make headers sometimes when needed. Does that mean something? Coach would allow him to make headers because he has good jumping and heading abilities.

Moreover, there is another comparison, Vermaelen, the Arsenal centre defender.

Vermaelen is 182cm, and Jump:87, Header:86. They are both good at headers, but obviously, Vermaelen got much better values than Thiago Silva.

So, what level is NOW for Thiago Silva with his Jump:82 and Header:83?

Let's check values from Serie A [Jump] ladder:
86: Mohamed SISSOKO (187cm), Christian POULSEN (182cm), Giovanni TEDESCO (170cm)

85: Marco MATERAZZI (193cm), Mario YEPES (187cm), Kakhaber KALADZE (186cm), Wálter SAMUEL (183cm), NENÉ (183cm), Salvatore BOCCHETTI (178cm)

82: Nicolae Dorin GOIAN (194cm), Bernardo CORRADI (189cm), FELIPE dal Belo (188cm), José Ignacio CASTILLO (188cm), Michele CANINI (187cm), Marco ANDREOLLI (187cm), Paolo CANNAVARO (185cm), Daniele GASTALDELLO (185cm), Christian MAGGIO (184cm), THIAGO Emiliano da SILVA (183cm), Emiliano MORETTI (183cm)

In [Jump] ladder, with the same [Jump] value, Thiago Silva is among those Giants. Especially for centre defenders. Materazzi, Yepes, Kaladze, Samuel, Nene, even S.Bocchetti all have fine values which make them to jump high enough to clear crosses, but Thiago Silva ONLY has 82, similar to some 190cm height level defenders. Is that a Joke? He is ONLY 183cm, and does that [Jump]:82 make him a good defender to clear crosses or a VERY BAD one?

and [Header] ladders:
86: Miguel BRITOS, Nicolas SPOLLI, Davide MANDELLI, Alessandro GAMBERINI, LUCIO, Wálter SAMUEL, Nicolás BURDISSO, Philippe MEXÈS, Gianvito PLASMATI, Hérnan CRESPO, German DENIS, Bernardo CORRADI

83: Matías SILVESTRE, Cesare NATALI, Giuseppe BIAVA, Sánchez CRIBARI, THIAGO Emiliano da SILVA, Leandro RINAUDO, Moris CARROZZIERI, Simon KJÆR, Cristián ZAPATA, COSTINHA,

Again, for Defenders, Gamberini, Samuel, Burdisso, Mexes.... they all have 86 for Headers, and Thiago Silva ONLY has 83, same to Biava, Cribari, Rinaudo.... Does That Fair? Thiago Silva is very aggressive at making headers, so shouldn't his Header value at least similar to Gamberini?

My suggestion: Thiago Silva, Jump:86/87, Header:85/86.

[tamaguchi_japa]

great explanation m8, ill go with 86/86

[zuo]

the JMP suggestion could be good,but not the HEA one, all the defenders you've quoted are experts and with a firm and strong header,for what i've seen Thiago Silva hasnt got better accuracy/power in headers than good old Biava. for the jump one,i agree as said before.

[master smurf]

I have him on 84 HEA 87 JMP but not opposed to only raising his JMP attrib.

edit - I think he is better than Mexes and Burdisso - but they should probably go down than him going up to high.

Also - all of these suggestions for increases but that glaring SP is still there - he hasnt taken many shots though (cant even remember one worth noting)

[Alex_10]

jump suggestion seems fine (87) , but his header is nowhere similar to Mexes or Chiellini (86), imo his 83 is well rated..

[metronomo]

maybe.....

jump 86
header 84

[pedala robinho]

I agree with metronomo.

[zuo]

i can't agree to an HEA raise,cause in my opinion 83 is a fine value that shows his decent heading ability. putting him at any higher value,for now,would imo be a ladder disrespecting. simple people like Simone Inzaghi or Portanova are still more valuable headers than him.
as said before,id agree to a reasonable JMP update,cause i remember well that the duel with him and Lucarelli was on the same level that the duel with Nesta and Lucarelli(both consistently beaten by livorno's CF) but nesta is 4 cm taller.
also,nowadays Nesta can't be over a 79 JMP for what he showed.
id say that an 86 JMP for T.Silva would be enough,with a really border line 87(imo Melo's JMP last year was a tad more impressive [same height])

[Kris]

why is his shot power 90?

attack could go 64 or 65.. when he attacks he dangerous

though i think aggersion should be lower than his attack, he's doesnt go forward much but when he does he's dangerous.

[Fevernova]

I don´t think that headers are the most important issue here. Guys, have U really seen any recent Milan or Brazil games? And, if you had, have U been paying attention to Silva? His passing is awesome, really, especially his long pass, reaching forward players in seconds, and with excellent placement, really, impresive for a young CB, I had my doubts, but after today´s match against England, I cleared them all, he needs urgent raise for his passing stats.

I´d suggest:

Short Pass Accuracy: 72 < 74
Short Pass Speed: 70 < 73
Long Pass Acc.: 71 < 75
Long Pass Speed: 74 < 77

Also, I don't mean to take away attention from the headers suggestions, I agree with them, but passing is really poor right now with these stats.

[master smurf]

There was a discussion earlier about his passing but I think it was agreed to wait a little more before increasing some of his stats.

Agree with you on the passing - the increases seem modest as well.

[dsc748]

why is his shot power 90?

Maybe 90 is a litle over, but at least an 87

If those are his hardest shots... then he can sit on 85

the thing that impresses me is that both are on the corner of the net.

There is this one too, but it is a rather close range.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcDnh6kuA3w

Up to you seeing him every week, just felt that I had to help you guys as he hasn't got chances to show this by himself

[Jim_Boi]

i can't agree to an HEA raise,cause in my opinion 83 is a fine value that shows his decent heading ability. putting him at any higher value,for now,would imo be a ladder disrespecting. simple people like Simone Inzaghi or Portanova are still more valuable headers than him.
as said before,id agree to a reasonable JMP update,cause i remember well that the duel with him and Lucarelli was on the same level that the duel with Nesta and Lucarelli(both consistently beaten by livorno's CF) but nesta is 4 cm taller.
also,nowadays Nesta can't be over a 79 JMP for what he showed.
id say that an 86 JMP for T.Silva would be enough,with a really border line 87(imo Melo's JMP last year was a tad more impressive [same height])

Agree

[Mrky_MNE]

omg,his LPA must be yellow...and high!a fantastic passes tonight...remarkable....

[jmg721]

Wow....well Ron here is the best arguement 1 can give to making a good set of stats with explanations, and then locking the thread. Look at the rubblish in this thread. I swear some people made different suggestions everytime they saw a game. How about taking notes on your own, and then be confident in the value you are giving. I'm not ripping on everyone who posted in this thread, but it is a bit outrageous. Becks, you made a set of stats but gave no explanation...as far as I know it was a guess.

Here is the suggestion summary, and we can start working towards updating the 1st post. Oh btw...I deleted 4 pages of garbage in this thread. You're welcome. Not stop posting garbage!!

Att: 64/65(kris) 65(becks)
Defense: 83(becks) 84(pedela)(tamaguchi) 85(aurandon)(metro)
Stamina: 84(pedela)(metro)(becks)
Top Speed: 82/83(zuo) 83(metro)(becks) 83/84(pedela) 84(braslianfan)(defrenz)(master)(fledarr)
Acceleration: 81/82(zuo) 84(becks)(pedela)(tamaguchi) 85(braslianfan)(metro)
Response: 83(braslianfan) 84(becks) 85(metro)(pedela)(tamaguchi)(master) 86(aurandon) disagree85(zuo)
Agility: 77(metro)(becks) 79(aurandon) 81(braslianfan)(pedela)
Dribbling Accuracy: 73(metro) 75(becks) 77(crnogorac)
Dribbling Speed: 75(master)(metro) 76(tamaguchi) 76/77(zuo) 77(becks)
Short Pass Accuracy: 74(metro)(braslianfan)(pedela)(fevernova) 75(becks)
Short Pass Speed: 72(metro) 73(becks)(fevernova) 75(braslianfan)(pedela)
Long Pass Acc.: 73(braslianfan)(pedela) 74(metro) 75(becks)(fevernova) 76(tamaguchi)(jmg721) 77(metro) 80(aurandon)(crnogorac)
Long Pass Speed: 74(braslianfan)(pedela)(becks) 75(metro) 77(fevernova) 79(tamaguchi)(jmg721)(metro) 82/83(aurandon)
Shot Acc: 68(becks)
Shot Power: 87(becks)(master?)(dsc)(kris?) 88(tamaguchi)
Shot Tech: 70(becks)
Free Kick Acc: 73(tamaguchi) 74(becks)
Curling: 76(becks)
Header: 83(becks)(alex)(zuo)(jimboi) 84(metro)(master)(pedala) 85/86(fledarr) 86(tamaguchi)
Jumping: 84(becks) 86(metro)(tamaguchi)(zuo)(jimboi)(pedala) 86/87(fledarr) 87(master)(alex)
Technique: 75(pedela)(metro)(marcus)(tamaguchi)(zuo) 76(becks)
Aggression: 71(becks)
Mentality: 82(becks)
Team Work: 80(metro)(becks) disagree(rfuna)

Now that I posted the suggestion summary I can probably go back through and deleted all the "agree" posts, and posts with just numbers and no useful explanation.

[zuo]

If you can add to the suggestion summary the Condition 7..... even if i think it doesent need discussion. he got 47 caps 06-07, 53 caps 07-08 , 46 caps 08-09 plus 4 NT matches in 08-09.
An average of 50 matches/season. Probably he isnt a proper 8,But a 7 is absolutely deserved.

[Mrky_MNE]

DA,DS and TS must go higher...

[Rfuna]

Here's what I'm leaning towards:

Att: 65
Defense: 84
Agility: 79
Dribbling Accuracy: 76
Dribbling Speed: 76
Short Pass Accuracy: 74
Short Pass Speed: 75-76
Long Pass Acc.: 77-78
Long Pass Speed: 77-79
Shot Power: 87
Shot Tech: 70-73
Jumping: 86
Technique: 75-76
Aggression: 67-68
Team Work: 82

Now Acceleration I would like to discuss because quite a disparity between values (81/82(zuo) 84(becks)(pedela)(tamaguchi) 85(braslianfan)(metro)). Any remaining thoughts? I pretty happy with ACC @ 83

[metronomo]

the header and jump should be definitely updated....he won almost in every corner against taller rivals...like amauri, chiellini etc