Wayne Rooney

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Wayne Rooney

Postby PES Stats Database » 2010 Jan 15, 01:44

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Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Apr 04, 06:16, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Paddy » 2010 Jan 19, 17:45

Thats because I'm always right!

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby ThaReaper01 » 2010 Jan 19, 21:46

Technique: 104

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Hot Stepper » 2010 Jan 20, 15:24

ThaReaper01 wrote:Technique: 104


I can't disagree with you more!!

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 22, 17:03

Come on guys, these are posts that anger the mods. I don't want to pooh-pooh on the party but we're trying to get the final tweaks tweaked so we can lock zer thread till zummer.

ANYWAY!

Ever since I tested Pelé I've really had a problem giving players who play in roles where they also like to run with the ball and link up with more self-orientated 1-2's TW over 85. Some players when rated over 85 start not wanting to travel with the ball with the ai. They only want to pass and though it doesn't always happen, it's worth testing. TW is a value that must be tested, I really don't think you can give it a theoretical value.

For long passing, that suggestion makes sense and it's something that does in game what it says on the tin, so to speak. If no one has problems with that then it should be okay in my opinion. I also agree with jump 80 but I'm not sure about a value for ST. Clearly Paddy has opinion on it so maybe he has a value in mind but I do agree he shouldn't be level with Arshavin, although I'd personally up him to 87 and put Rooney on 84 level with Rosicky and Owen. 85 would put him with Lampard, Tevez and Gerrard, although like I said I'm actually not 100% on this and maybe it wouldn't be unfair to put it with them. I'm pretty sure he's in the 84-85 sort of territory though. It's just where. Certainly has shown on occasion that he can strike nice clean shots and from angles, so -if- he were to be lowered I don't think you could be too harsh. Just... Arshavin level? That seems a bit high considering how amazing Arshavin is at striking the ball cleanly, and also scoring from tight touch-line area angles and even when surrounded by players. I am not even using the 4-4 with Liverpool as an example here either. ;)

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Jan 23, 19:58

I suggested a SA raise but anybody didn't care about that so I'm saying again: "How about a SA 84?"
I think he is better than Arshavin or Van Persie but not better than Berbatov. The same level with Tevez also sounds good.

Note: I'm not suggesting that with a boost of today's game against Hull City. This season he is so clinical at finishing and you know, he is the top scorer of the best league of the world and this means he deserves a very good SA for me (at least better than 82). I know his whole stats are better than the most of the other forwards but I think SA 82 is not suitable for Rooney. That's my thought and criticals are welcome.

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And also changing the photo would be good. So ugly photo. :)

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 23, 23:09

-Facepalms- Can't we keep discussion to the more immediately needed tweaks?

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Uzair » 2010 Jan 24, 00:07

Das ist das! wrote:Image

And also changing the photo would be good. So ugly photo. :)


well he ain't exactly a looker :)

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 24, 00:10

Pics are automatically updated and since when did any of us guys care how attractive the players look in pics? ...Is that why you've been posting on the Ronaldo thread? :D

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Jan 24, 11:10

Actually, it doesn't matter for me how much the player is handsome or ugly.
My point;
Better looking pictures, better looking threads. :)

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Vandeach » 2010 Jan 24, 15:09

I don't think a better looking picture of the player improves the overall aesthetics of the thread, if people want to create Rooney's appearance the current photo is far more useful.

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 24, 15:55

Vandeach, you got an opinion on my suggestions?

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby tzanakas3 » 2010 Jan 24, 19:50

Watching most of Manutd's games this year i can say that Rooney is getting more and more complete as a CF or an SS.Dunno which stats can make him appear "complete" in PES but i can say that his SA can go to 83(which is perfect for me).The most notable is his movement and his killer instinct in the box,which are better than the previous years(dont forget he was moved to the flanks last year).His linkup with Valencia and Berbatov is excellent,Paddy also noted this i think, and his passes aren't as bad and overpowered as in the past.
Summing up i propose RES:85-86,SA:83,SPA:80-81..

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Vandeach » 2010 Jan 24, 20:23

Guys for God's sake leave his bloody SA, there are far more important things that need to be discussed like the points Alco raise which is far more important than a one point raise in SA. It will get updated as I do think he's proven thus far this season his accuracy is equal to Van Persie's (83) but in good time, when other stuff is also getting updated and he's had a chance to prove it further. To respond to Chris, I think his TW value is OK at the moment, but it could possibly use a one point raise as Rooney always makes himself open for his team-mates and has an excellent connection with almost everyone he plays with, and even if he was on the same TW value as Berba, his superiority in passing stats will still make him an overall better passer than Wayne; and on the notion of his passing his LPA should come down, as although he can occasionally pull some gems out the bag, he is fairly inconsistent in this area, though still obviously top class for a striker, just that he's not better than Van Persie. I'd have him on an 81/82 sort of value, although I'd prefer the former. I agree with Alco's changes to ST (85) and Jump. I'd also make slight changes to his Response, TS and Shot Power, which I'll post up reasoning for later.

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Kanouté » 2010 Jan 25, 11:45

Vandeach, why do people want to create his appearance from the photo from his PSD thread? It makes no sense for me. If I would be one that want to make his face for game, I would search for his pics at editorial picture sites.

Well, I don't insist on SA 84 anymore but please raise it to 83 at least. TW also may be raised. You know, Ronaldinho's TW is 88. What number do Rooney deserve? 87 would be good as you suggested.

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 25, 16:52

Raise TW if you want, but I warn you @ 87 TW and any higher he may not dribble and do his 1-2 triangle moves and pass too early when ai controlled. In my experience ai controlled players who like to dribble and do passes they expect to receive back so as to have a chance on goal respond very poorly when rated higher than the magic 85-86 range. Just a thought to consider. ;)

It happened with Maradona, Pelé AND happened with Cruyff also, even with cards and stars and blah blah blah. All players with stats that should make them run with the ball, try shots from outside the box, do clever 1-2's... It's not like it was tried with players who do completely different things. They're all players who are good passers, can run with pace on the ball and shoot, agile, all that. When they were rated over this mark they just gave the ball away to a team mate instantly. High 80's and 90's TW suits players like Danny Murphy, Veron, Carrick and Xavi. Players who constantly keep the ball moving, who spray the ball about if you're talking about players who have a good understanding of team mates and good pass range. (Obviously I'm not talking about GK or CB or blah blah who have high TW) The attackers SS/AM etc who are also good passers are compensated with high passing stats, but they still pass accurately and the passes seem much deadlier and "risky". If you rate them too high though, like I said they tend to just give up all responsibility and are just not selfish enough. I mean I thought it was me at first... I honestly thought I was cracking up, but it was even the same with Totti! And when I thought I needed clarification when testing Cruyff, (maybe it was my game?/2009? I thought) after already testing Pelé Plava Cigara said the same thing to me - they just don't use the ball intelligently. They just play a pass like a mindless drone. It's like... yeah, they have extra vision, but they're less inclined to do something risky, i.e. use it so it's silly. Especially for a player who refuses to accept defeat like Rooney. A player who will dribble shoot and do triangles. I'm just worried if it goes too much higher he will no longer dribble and no longer smash the ball even though he has a pass to another player on. We could inadvertently be de-clawing him.

Feck it... Maybe me and Plava are both mad hatters and should be locked up.. I mean, maybe we're literally seeing something that isn't there... (Even though I'm sure Brezza also tested a couple of players with similar results) but I have 2009 and PC has 2010 and the same things have happened regarding TW for am/ss/trequarwhateverthefuckyoucallit type players. Ronaldinho's becoming the kind of playmaker where he's playing lots more 1-2 touch stuff, he's more team oriented than Rooney. Rooney is not a selfish player, but he is more decisive. He wants to score, he is eager to and sometimes a little naive in trying play the very difficult killer pass. If you rate TW too highly then I believe it has the opposite effect. If someone could test this for me before Gooner kills me for writing this "The World is Flat" theory then I'd be uber grateful.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Plava Čigra » 2010 Jan 25, 18:16

I can confirm every word Alcohomicide wrote. Imo, testing is very important, especially when it comes to TW, Response, Aggression...

For example, we wanted to give 1969-1970 Pelé 88 for TW, but after testing of Pelé with 88 TW, we clearly saw that he almost always passes the ball (as soon as he gets it) and very rarely uses his dribble (or 1-2 combinations). Same thing goes for Cruyff and Maradona. Although those are players who obviously deserve values near or above 90 for TW, they don't act realistically with those values. And the whole point of PSD are realistic stats, stats that make player act as in real game.

Rooney should be tested first. I would recommend that whoever tests him tries giving him 84 for his TW and then test it with 86 and 88. Off course, I'm talking about AI vs AI matches in current Manchester United formation with green arrow, because that's the most precise way to tell what TW value suits him best.

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby zuo » 2010 Jan 25, 18:47

i tested plently when i was working on Cassano on the end of 2009 and it's always the same. TW around 85 or higher is unrealistic for strikers. moreso,something i got really pissed off, imo the passing got 'horizontaled' by these high TWs....just try it. I remember my Cassano with the *Playmaking took off,and high TW,being 20 m from the goal and keep spraying horizontal-almost-back passes to the sides. imo with high TW the CPU logic starts to be like "pass the ball,and pass it to the most un-marked mate,no matter what his position is"

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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 25, 19:04

Gah, thank feck for that then! It's not just us two. Thanks, zuo!

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby Alcohomicide » 2010 Jan 27, 21:18

Where are you all Manchester United fans? Where did you go? -Sniffs around like a confused animal- You were happy to propose pointless SA updates, but when it comes to practical testing you're suddenly all occupied! :D

I like it. Really.

"When we were winning leagues and European Cups at Real I always said Makelele was our most important player. There is no way myself Figo or Raúl would have been able to do what we did without Claude and the same goes for Liverpool and Gerrard."
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Re: Wayne ROONEY

Postby tzanakas3 » 2010 Jan 27, 22:13

In my post i think i was main focused on his Response and maybe SPA.Look at today's goal against City, even the chance he lost it was because of his excellent movement in the box.About TW your explanation deserves NOBEL(lol)...

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