Shinji Kagawa

[Helios]

[Malakayi]

He was voted as POTY by a website that covers the Bundesliga. United fans picked up on this and thought it was a league awarded title.

I see.

[sergei]

I feel my suggestions are well supported.... no response? Compare his stats, his rankings, his performance, his highlights, with Bayern players and justify his lower rankings. It makes no sense.

[davida7x]

I feel my suggestions are well supported.... no response? Compare his stats, his rankings, his performance, his highlights, with Bayern players and justify his lower rankings. It makes no sense.

Agree!!!

[CR7]

His new number is 26.

[sergei]

Not getting any traction, so here is my suggestion for a changed set:

Attack: 83
Defence: 53
Balance: 76- +1
Stamina: 85-->92 - runs second most on Dortmund- only to Bender. Runs much more than Bayern players with superior ratings.
Top Speed: 83
Acceleration: 86
Response: 79
Agility: 88 +1
Dribble Accuracy: 87 +2 very high number of successful dribbles per game
Dribble Speed: 87
Short Pass Accuracy: 81 --> 85 very accurate passer considering the fact that he makes many passes close to opposition penalty area. Again, compare to Ribery.
Short Pass Speed: 79
Long Pass Accuracy: 80 --> 84 completes successful chipped passes over the top to players such as Lewandowski. Not tremendous range or speed, but accurately weighted. Also see recent world cup qualifiers for Japan and successful passes from the wing in these matches.
Long Pass Speed: 79
Shot Accuracy: 78--> 82 excellent goal scoring for a mid, shots generally on target, though not a tremendous number of efforts from distance.
Shot Power: 79
Shot Technique: 75
Free Kick Accuracy: 78
Curling: 84
Header: 73
Jump: 78
Technique: 86--> 88 excellent trapping of the ball, quick to get ball on ground. Does not frequently misplay incoming passes, very quick ability to control with one touch and in tight spaces.
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 77
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 81-->86 excels at on-two passing, runs off of passes, fills space with early and late runs, creates assists and key passes (leading to scoring movements) by these efforts. Speed of play and ability to coordinate with teammates is allegedly a major reason for United's interest (if you believe Berbatov's agent, who says they want to play quicker).


Condition/Fitness: 7
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 7

PLAYER INDEX CARDS:
P05 - Mazing Run
P15 - Free Roaming
S01 - Direct Play --> stand out passer from one touch, good technique when shooting without settling the ball, particularly reflected when finishing on late runs.
S02 - Outside Curve- two footed, but uses outside of both feet for through passes- see DFB Pokal Final
S07-Shoulder Feint Skills- most frequent way to beat players off the dribble
S13-Step On - commonly used when holding possession on outside of 18.

In my opinion his stamina and teamwork are the absolutely the easiest changes to identify as necessary, as if you watch him play with Dortmund or Japan, these immediately stand out and are drastically different from what the current set would reflect.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

[jurgens]

I feel my suggestions are well supported.... no response? Compare his stats, his rankings, his performance, his highlights, with Bayern players and justify his lower rankings. It makes no sense.

Where was your suggestions for when he was a dortmund player? Nowhere? And now that he plays for united.. but hasn't played yet, you feel the need to raise his stats?

[Yazid]

Not getting any traction, so here is my suggestion for a changed set:

Attack: 83
Defence: 53
Balance: 76- +1
Stamina: 85-->92 - runs second most on Dortmund- only to Bender. Runs much more than Bayern players with superior ratings.
Top Speed: 83
Acceleration: 86
Response: 79
Agility: 88 +1
Dribble Accuracy: 87 +2 very high number of successful dribbles per game
Dribble Speed: 87
Short Pass Accuracy: 81 --> 85 very accurate passer considering the fact that he makes many passes close to opposition penalty area. Again, compare to Ribery.
Short Pass Speed: 79
Long Pass Accuracy: 80 --> 84 completes successful chipped passes over the top to players such as Lewandowski. Not tremendous range or speed, but accurately weighted. Also see recent world cup qualifiers for Japan and successful passes from the wing in these matches.
Long Pass Speed: 79
Shot Accuracy: 78--> 82 excellent goal scoring for a mid, shots generally on target, though not a tremendous number of efforts from distance.
Shot Power: 79
Shot Technique: 75
Free Kick Accuracy: 78
Curling: 84
Header: 73
Jump: 78
Technique: 86--> 88 excellent trapping of the ball, quick to get ball on ground. Does not frequently misplay incoming passes, very quick ability to control with one touch and in tight spaces.
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 77
Keeper Skills: 50
Teamwork: 81-->86 excels at on-two passing, runs off of passes, fills space with early and late runs, creates assists and key passes (leading to scoring movements) by these efforts. Speed of play and ability to coordinate with teammates is allegedly a major reason for United's interest (if you believe Berbatov's agent, who says they want to play quicker).


Condition/Fitness: 7
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 7

PLAYER INDEX CARDS:
P05 - Mazing Run
P15 - Free Roaming
S01 - Direct Play --> stand out passer from one touch, good technique when shooting without settling the ball, particularly reflected when finishing on late runs.
S02 - Outside Curve- two footed, but uses outside of both feet for through passes- see DFB Pokal Final
S07-Shoulder Feint Skills- most frequent way to beat players off the dribble
S13-Step On - commonly used when holding possession on outside of 18.

In my opinion his stamina and teamwork are the absolutely the easiest changes to identify as necessary, as if you watch him play with Dortmund or Japan, these immediately stand out and are drastically different from what the current set would reflect.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

What has he shown that warrants such a vast increase simply due to his transfer to england? SPA 85? I don't think so somehow.

[sergei]

Jurgens and Yazid, I am basing my suggestions on watching him play for Dortmund repeatedly this season and compared his stats to other Bundesliga players rather than English players. But, thanks for the condescending responses!

[Albo7]

Where was your suggestions for when he was a dortmund player? Nowhere?

[jurgens]

But, thanks for the condescending responses!

Pleasure.

[sergei]

Mods are supposed to encourage others to use the boards correctly. You are deliberately rude. All the men on the Internet are so big and tough, my goodness.

No one has addressed the point that Kagawa is vastly underrated when you compare his performance, advanced stats from the season, etc. to other bundesliga attacking/side mids.

[BigStu]

and you are deliberately retarded

[adam13]

I think his speed stats are sooo damn overrated. Carried by ourself. It needs a downgrade.

[Capone]

I think his speed stats are sooo damn overrated. Carried by ourself. It needs a downgrade.

Yeah, they could be rated a tad too high, especially his TS, but I agree partly with sergei, that Kagawa is also a little bit underrated in some areas, especially in his SPA. Also I really can't understand the question why he didn't mention something, while he was still a BVB player. Does that matter?

Here are my suggestions:

TS: 84->81 - He never showed that he is this fast IMO, he also never really runs at top speed.
ACC: 86 ->84-85 - quick ins his first meters, but 86 seems a little bit too much. I would go for a 85.
SPA: 81 ->83 - His passes may not be the most complex ones, but he rarely misplaces them and shows great quality there IMO. 81 seems just a little bit too low.
LPA: 80-> 81 - Showed some great long balls and 81 could be fine, but 80 is also okay. 84 would definitely be too high though.
SA: 78-> 79 - His shot technique isn't the best, but his shots are really accurate and he also scored much goals for Dortmund, so I would raise his SA a little bit.

And for his teamwork, I would wait, because he's now at a new club, let's wait how he settles there. It will be difficult, because he was so perfectly fitted for Dortmund in my opinion.

[Albo7]

Where was your suggestions for when he was a dortmund player? Nowhere?

[Alexalibur]

His new number is 26.

[sergei]

I think stamina is also underrated, he runs the second most on Dortmund. The team runs and presses quite a bit, Bayern players who run less have more stamina and mentality, it makes no sense. His stamina is excellent, you cannot watch a game, read an article, or hear a commentator without either directly seeing evidence of it or being exposed second hand. No one has even begun to refute this argument, only ignored it.

Also, I make my posts in the summer because I have more time. During the year, I have a hard enough time keeping my own game's ratings up to date. Of course, others are suggesting that I am only increasing because of the move to United. Although if people on this board don't agree with your point, they may also say "he has only played half a season, wait till it is over." I personally think both of these lines of argument are somewhat pointless (particularly since mods seem now to make stat changes without any discussion of them at all). The numbers and his performances support my contention regarding stamina, as do his passing stats support increasing those abilities, especially considering the number of assists and critical passes he makes playing quite far forward. Anecdotally, you also see quotes from his teammates and former teammates about his work-rate and passing abilities, such as Nuri Sahin saying "he plays like an angel." But if the right person disagrees with you on this board, a few will pile on. This is, in my opinion, just to earn some internet credibility.

Regarding his speed, I actually don't know how fast he runs, no stats on that! I think he is quick, rather than blindingly fast, but it is kind of hard to know how quick or fast. I am interested to compare him to nani, welbeck, and valencia, as they are thought of as pretty fast players. He is currently rated slower than rooney, not sure if that will hold up, although maybe Rooney's speed is overrated (looks plodding these days to me, could be wrong). I think Kuba on Dortmund has a higher top end, but their other attackers are also more quick than fast... or just tireless like GrossKruetz... so I don't know. He dribbles the ball without losing much speed and he can catch up to Lewandowski no problem, but he isn't that blindingly fast either, so you may be right about top speed.

I obviously think he is underrated and am secretly hoping Japanese fans will flood this forum and agree with me!

Anyway, cheers and thanks for at least responding with civility!

[jurgens]

All the men on the Internet are so big and tough, my goodness.

Yeah man, if a big tough guy came up to me said "pleasure" I think I might just shit myself

Mods are supposed to encourage others to use the boards correctly. You are deliberately rude.

You come in here and state "Kagawa is under-rated". Make lots of suggestions, right after he moves to Manchester United. Looking at your posts history, all you've posted in is Manchester United. You keep saying hes under-rated, but if you knew him, you'd see this is a really good set.. If I'm to be brutally honest with you, you look like a typical fanboy who wants stats for his team increased, right after the player arrives.

- runs second most on Dortmund- only to Bender. Runs much more than Bayern players with superior ratings.

92 suggests hes some dynamic box to box player, hes not at all. For someone who so much energy, his defensive contribution doesn't need that high at all. That value puts him well over pizicek, what has he done to deserve that? I'll give him 87.
In general, I really can't see why Fergie would sign him, hes not the sort of player united use, I guess because of his energy he has some wishes to turn him into a parke-sque player Maybe?

87 +2 very high number of successful dribbles per game

Is this what whoscored.com told you? Terrible way to get an idea of the type off dribbler he is. Hes pretty good, but hes not an 87. I question if hes an 85, his DA isn't that close and tidy, hes not over gotze.

81 --> 85 very accurate passer considering the fact that he makes many passes close to opposition penalty area. Again, compare to Ribery

.

See this makes no sense at all considering the type of player Kagawa is. Kagawa gets on the ball, runs a little, when someones in front of him, he usually passes to the player next to him, moves and goes, repeats. Thats the sort of passer he is, simple side way passes. The value you suggested, put him significantly over hummels. The value you suggested would imply hes some player who gets on the ball and looks to open up the game with defense splitting through balls, that ain't Kagawa at all. And compare to Ribery? Okay. Ribery is a really solid passer, can pass with accuracy over distance with ease, strong accurate passes, can make diffuclt passes when the need arises. Kagawa? Simple side way passer, no speed, no real range, just opts to give the simple pass and go. Having said that, he can play some pretty nice passes now and again, but nothing spectacular. Current value puts him over Aguero, on par with Benz. 79 is what suits him, and thats what I'll update him to.

completes successful chipped passes over the top to players such as Lewandowski. Not tremendous range or speed, but accurately weighted. Also see recent world cup qualifiers for Japan and successful passes from the wing in these matches.

Now you do have a point here, his long balls are nice, he does much better things with them than his short ones. 84 is a touch too high, 82/83 will do.

88 excellent trapping of the ball, quick to get ball on ground. Does not frequently misplay incoming passes, very quick ability to control with one touch and in tight spaces.

I actually agree here, it is probably the strongest part of his game.



As I said this set is really accurate, it portrays the type of player he is well. I feel some stats are a touch too high, and others a touch too low. All and all though, its well rated and hes certainly not under-rated compared to other bundesliga players. I didn't plan on giving him any slight tweaks, as I felt hes one of the BVB players who really doesn't need any. But since I'm here I may as well.

Not related to your suggestions. But I just don't like his agility value, aguero/iniesta/silva, all use their agility better than him, make sharper 180 turns, I don't think he needs anything over 86.


Updated.

[Adieet Cat]

Doesnt he deserves shoulder feints?

[sergei]

You come in here and state "Kagawa is under-rated". Make lots of suggestions, right after he moves to Manchester United. Looking at your posts history, all you've posted in is Manchester United. You keep saying hes under-rated, but if you knew him, you'd see this is a really good set.. If I'm to be brutally honest with you, you look like a typical fanboy who wants stats for his team increased, right after the player arrives.

Believe it or not, I do watch a lot of BVB, I like them, their coach, and the way they play. I live in the US and could just start watching the Bundesliga again after getting the only cable channel that broadcasts it here again this season. Plus ever since I was a kid, I loved their jerseys and the yellow girders and huge crowds in the Westfallenstadium. And while I am a Kagawa fan, I became a fan watching him play fundamentally sound football, rather than hanging his poster over my bed. Regardless, given that you ultimately agreed with a few points, couldn't we have a discussion from the beginning rather than starting with insults. If you watch him regularly as well, perhaps you could just disagree with me and find areas of compromise or just agree to disagree. As far as being a fanboy, I bet we all are "fanboys" in some definition of the word. Why else would we be on a website dedicated to a database for a football videogame. We are all total soccer nerds. No one leaves this place with any pride.

92 suggests hes some dynamic box to box player, hes not at all. For someone who so much energy, his defensive contribution doesn't need that high at all. That value puts him well over pizicek, what has he done to deserve that? I'll give him 87.
In general, I really can't see why Fergie would sign him, hes not the sort of player united use, I guess because of his energy he has some wishes to turn him into a parke-sque player Maybe?

I can see you disagree with me here, but if you look at the stats, say the group stage of the Champions' League, he ran over 12K a match. That is insane. Now I realize he doesn't run around like a rabid hornet, but I think mentality would make him do that. Stamina just allows him to run a long way, which he just does. I think Park in his peak, or another high pressure player would behave this way in-game as a result of high stamina and mentality. One other side note on this issue, he sometimes doesn't seem to be pressurizing as much as other attacking mids or support strikers, but you may note he tends to press up the field, toward the CBs rather than sagging back to pressure the ball immediately. This is the way Dortmund plays, but when watching the camera shot, it might seem like he is slow to get back. He has actually run forward like a pressing forward and then run all the way back to the DM or CM. We can agree to disagree here, but IMO, he runs quite a bit. As far as Fergie's motivations, IDK. Perhaps more one touch counterattacking? 442 is getting a little rigid these days, considering that most teams play with systems utilizing 3 mids and two winger/SM players that allow them to easily crowd the middle third. Berbatov is a GD statue, so maybe he just wanted someone who didn't run like he had black lung.

Is this what whoscored.com told you? Terrible way to get an idea of the type off dribbler he is. Hes pretty good, but hes not an 87. I question if hes an 85, his DA isn't that close and tidy, hes not over gotze.

IDK, difference of opinion I guess. His teammates commonly speak of his way to dribble his way out of tight spaces and retain possession. We see it differently.

See this makes no sense at all considering the type of player Kagawa is. Kagawa gets on the ball, runs a little, when someones in front of him, he usually passes to the player next to him, moves and goes, repeats. Thats the sort of passer he is, simple side way passes. The value you suggested, put him significantly over hummels. The value you suggested would imply hes some player who gets on the ball and looks to open up the game with defense splitting through balls, that ain't Kagawa at all. And compare to Ribery? Okay. Ribery is a really solid passer, can pass with accuracy over distance with ease, strong accurate passes, can make diffuclt passes when the need arises. Kagawa? Simple side way passer, no speed, no real range, just opts to give the simple pass and go. Having said that, he can play some pretty nice passes now and again, but nothing spectacular. Current value puts him over Aguero, on par with Benz. 79 is what suits him, and thats what I'll update him to.

I think of him as a player who can split the defense, but generally makes safe passes to retain possession. That is why I would combine better passing with higher teamwork. You are right, he does pass and move. I think of him as an accurate passer as he does this, while also having the capability to split the defence and lay it on to Lewandowski. Considering where he makes his passes, many in the attacking third, his pass completion rates are very good. Again, I guess we see him differently. I can say his passing from the wing for Japan is absolutely deadly, although the defensive play in asian WC qualifying isn't exactly the Bundesliga.


Anyway, I don't mean to get into some kind of fight here, I don't believe I am the sole authority on this player or anything. I just wanted to put forward some suggestions and see how people reacted. Some of the initial responses just seemed reactionary, rather than constructive. I come in peas. I like the board, but really only can post much in the summers. I like United, BVB, Napoli, and Roma, and watch a lot of premier league, so I am going to try and contribute some on those teams.