Shay Given

[Nrby]

[Brezza]

Sorry Brezza but you have a big disagree from me. Given's handling is actually rather average Reina imo is far more capable of stopping really hard shots a rather recent example was the game against Manchester United where although he had a preference to parry he caught some bloody hard shots too, something you'll rarely ever see Shay Given doing. I think my mini-ladder looks pretty accurate with Cech being at 88 1 point above Howard to answer Alco's question.

Thats the thing Reina can handle the impressive shots things rather well and hes stopped making silly mistakes (like his fumble agaisnt everton) but still a tad suspect from crosses and set pieces in the box and id say Given is more secure in that area. Given's Handling isn't spectacular, but i feel its a bit harsh puttting his GK skills too close with "Mr butterfingers' Scott Carson

[Paddy]

Honestly though Brennan... If anyone suggested lowering Carsons GKS I doubt anyone would argue it

[Vandeach]

Is it not possible that Scott Carson is overrated then? Its actually very rare to see Shay catch the ball unless its a soft shot yet if a really strong shot came at Reina you'd probably expect him to parry but you wouldn't be too suprised is he caught it whereas Given would probably jump in the air and make it look spectacular(the reason why I'd also significantly raise agility and jump).

[Paddy]

Givens not known for his excellent handling.... his response is what makes him Exceptional.

I'd agree his jump needs to go up... he's the Smallest Goalie in the league too

[Vandeach]

Aww really? Well 83 is just plain underrating for a goalkeeper his jump is probably the best in the EPL. God knows how he's 5 points below Manuel Almunia . I propose an 89 for jump and possibly Reina's and Given's agility values being swapped?

[Paddy]

I dunno, That may be overating him, and by swapping Reina and Givens agility, could that not be underating Reina?

[Vandeach]

It still puts him as the second highest in the EPL the top agility for a goalkeeper bar Janot is Casillas on 86 so when thinking of it in those terms 80 is a bloody good value. Also his leap is pretty impeccable the best in the EPL for a 'keeper without a doubt I don't think its overrating him .

[Alcohomicide]

I agree re: handling and yes Carson could come down.

Reina's problem could easily be consistency, but his actual catching ability is rather good and sometimes you will think "what's he doing?" And he'll just tear a shot out of the air, into his arms and release it within seconds down the pitch.

[lfc 4 eva]

Perhaps response 95??
He seems a tad better than Reina at reflex saves.

[BECKS23LA]

Yes, seems fine for me!
besides i think that Condition can be 7, he played 30 games this year!

[erol17]

Perhaps response 95??
He seems a tad better than Reina at reflex saves.

i agree, but goalkeeping skills are overrated

[Vandeach]

Well that is what where discussing at the moment as I suggested earlier in the thread he should have an 84 on par with Craig Gordon and Heurehlo Gomes.

[Paddy]

He has better hands than Gomes!

[Vandeach]

He doesn't though Gomes showed in Holland and recently at Tottenham that he has pretty decent hands you can;t forget his time at PSV so quickly .

[GavidTreveguet]

Personally, I think the ladder should look like this:

88: Cech

87: Howard, van der Sar

86: Friedel, Schwarzer, Reina

85: Almunia, Given

84: Jaaskelainen, Gordon, Sorensen

I'd also reduce Gomes' keeping skills to about 82. He's dire at catching a ball and usually grabs it at the second attempt. Also, where would David James fit in here? I recently proposed to reduce his KS as I think they're slightly over-rated on his set of stats. I'd personally have James alongside Almunia and Given on 85 also.

Thoughts?

[Paddy]

I don't Gomes is a response Keeper, his hands are below standard, He parrys more than Given and flails more than Given too. Even in the Erevdivisie he wasn't reknowned for his handling.

[Vandeach]

Your right in that he wasn't 'reknowned' for it but he could catch some really hard shots but then again the Eredivise isn't the best quality league in the world. I also thin kAlmunia has better hands than Given .

[Paddy]

I'd put him on par with Almunia.

As for James, I'm not sure, its a toss up between 85 and 86.

[Vandeach]

Almunia's handling has definitely been improving of late and I'm 100% sure James' handling is better than Given's who should still be on 84 imo.

[Paddy]

I'd have him on par with Almunia, and James on 86