Thomas Vermaelen

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Thomas Vermaelen

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 10:41

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby tc811 » 2010 Apr 26, 23:59

TV fits the role of extra attacker perfectly like Pique does at Barcelona, running forward with the ball from the back line.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby deity86 » 2010 Apr 28, 11:29

Right, as his season is over there's a few things that have been mentioned over the last months that I'd look to bring back up.

Firstly starting with his Attack. I think he's demonstrated numerous times this season his ability to find himself in dangerous positions in attack, whether it be from set-pieces or more impressively in open play. When he makes one his marauding runs forward he does it with a purpose, he knows what he's doing. I'd suggest a 2 point raise to a 67, possibly even a 68 level with Kolo Toure though I think Kolo may just be ahead of Thomas.

Paddy mentioned it a few pages back, his Agility could use a slight bump to a 79 to sit him better on the ladder. Defensively I've rarely seen Thomas be out-manoeuvred, he genuinely doesn't have too much problem keeping up with the movements of opposition players. One notable exception this season being Lionel Messi who made him look a bit of a fool, but who does find it easy marking Messi? Whilst on the ball Thomas also shows a good ability to turn when combined with his small frame (for a CB) a 79 feels good.

Dribbling wise, I think his DA needs to be raised. He's a very competent dribbler, even moreso than a lot of SB's. He shows good close control and has no problem bringing the ball out from the back and initiating attacks. He's not exactly going to go on a mazing run and take on defenders left, right and centre but he's more than capable of taking the ball through crowded spaces. I have him on an 77 which in ladder terms would put him level with fellow CB's Carvalho, Heitinga and Rio Ferdinand.

Paddy suggested an 80 for DS previously and that's what I also have him on. There's not too much I can say on the issue, he's generally just quite quick on the ball.

I also think his short passing could be tweaked. He can play the ball through heavily congested areas of the pitch with relative ease at times showing both the accuracy and weight of pass required. From his position he doesn't always get a chance to showcase his short passing ability but it's easy to see when he makes his forays up the pitch, he can link up nicely and deliver crisp accurate passes into the feet of the intended target. I have him on SPA: 76, SPS: 77

As Paddy again proposed a few pages back, his SP/ST could be tweaked to 84/71 respectively. Thomas' shooting abilities have been there for all to see this season. He's very adept at striking a ball cleanly and with good power scoring a few wonderful goals this season. Only a slight change but it sits a bit better.

I'd raise his FKA to a 69. He's taken a few direct free kicks this season and though they never really troubled to keeper he can get the ball up and over the wall with a decent degree of accuracy.

I disagreed with a further raise earlier in the season but having a chance to see him week in, week out I feel his Jump can still go up. Thomas really does have a ridiculous spring and if I'm being honest, I've rarely seen him struggle against anyone in the air. He manages to get up very early and tower above even some of the biggest players in the league with is no mean feat considering he's sometimes giving up 10cms in height. I could see him sitting on an 89.

Thomas is also very adept at receiving the ball. His first touch is generally of a good standard, even in more advanced areas of the pitch where he's under more pressure from opposition players. By normal terms it's nothing exceptional but by CB standards he's clearly one of the better technically gifted players in the league. I have him on a 78.

It's been mentioned alot previously but Thomas joins in attacks very frequently, quite often multiple times in a match. I personally have him on a 72 but it could be a 71.

One thing that's impressed me alot is his desire regardless of the situation. For a very technically gifted player he still has the grit and determination of someone who loves to defend. He has a "never say die" attitude and generally gives his all in every aspect of his play, he's not afraid to come out from his position and tightly pressure opponents. Even when things aren't going the team's way he still plays the same, maybe even appearing more determined. I personally have him on an 84.

I'd bump his Condition to a 7 for now, he rarely missed a game this season and when he did it was due to injury not fatigue. I'd also give him a 7 for Consistency, I can't recall too many times that he put a bad performance in to be honest. Some games he may have been a bit quiet but always a highly consistent performer.

Lastly on the suggestion front, I may just backtrack on my idea about Extra Attacker. My hesitancy is more down to disliking the card itself rather than it not applying. It has all of the traits that Thomas displays except for the fact it makes him join in attacks off of the ball. In all honesty I can't think of many CB's that actually do join in attacks off the ball so in essence no-one would get the card then.

To summarise:

  • Attack: 67
  • Agility: 79
  • Dribble Accuracy: 77
  • Dribble Speed: 80
  • Short Pass Accuracy: 76
  • Short Pass Speed: 77
  • Shot Power: 84
  • Shot Technique: 71
  • Free Kick Accuracy: 69
  • Jump: 89
  • Technique: 78
  • Aggression: 71/72
  • Mentality: 84
  • Condition/Fitness: 7
  • Consistency: 7
  • + P18 - Extra Attacker

Now as an Arsenal fan I'm very self-conscious about some of these suggestions so that I don't overrate him as he's made a massive impact on the club (and the league) this season. Thoughts? ;)

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby s-cobar » 2010 Apr 28, 11:32

Don`t know if your values are all right Chris, cause I don´t see the full season of him, but I love your explantions so I´ll trust them.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby MarcusAurelio » 2010 Apr 28, 12:04

I most definitely agree to these, jolly good notes.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby kendees » 2010 Apr 28, 12:12

I L♥VE IT. :D Yeah, very good suggestions. Maybe also a slight increase in TS&ACC - 81 for both. I agree with you with the Extra Attacker card, I also dislike it. It's not really good, he was playing as something between SS and AMF with the card and then he was missing in the back. But you can turn it off if you want, but he probably deserves that, although I'm not a fan of this card. The rest I like very much, especially the increease in his Consistency and Fitness. Yes, good... good job! :)

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Paddy » 2010 Apr 28, 15:56

His FKA could arguably be even higher than a 69.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby deity86 » 2010 Apr 28, 16:22

kendees wrote:I L♥VE IT. :D Yeah, very good suggestions. Maybe also a slight increase in TS&ACC - 81 for both. I agree with you with the Extra Attacker card, I also dislike it. It's not really good, he was playing as something between SS and AMF with the card and then he was missing in the back. But you can turn it off if you want, but he probably deserves that, although I'm not a fan of this card. The rest I like very much, especially the increease in his Consistency and Fitness. Yes, good... good job! :)
That's what I have him at on my OF but even after watching a whole season I'm still unsure. Sometimes he seems faster (as some people have suggested), other times just quite average. Sometimes it can be put down to his desire, I think it was the Celtic match for the Champions League Qualifier that he ran back the whole length of the pitch and made a quite brilliant interception. He looked alot quicker than an 80 then but also he seemed to "push" himself that extra bit. The problem with rating a CB's pace is they never usually get a chance to show it unless they've either got themself badly out of position and need to quickly recover (like Toure) or if they've been caught on the counter-attack and have to race back quickly (like Djourou vs Ronaldo, Vermaelen vs Celtic). I wouldn't mind rating it a 81/81 for the time being and really keep a close eye on him through pre-season and the first quarter/half of the league season.

Paddy wrote:His FKA could arguably be even higher than a 69.
What were you thinking of? I don't feel he's justified being too much higher than a 69, maybe one or two points at most.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby chanman » 2010 Apr 29, 20:36

I still don't agree with his defence at an 85 when looking at other defenders in the EPL. I feel an 84 fits a little better in the ladders. He isn't par with Toure and Jagielka especially considering he has Marking & Sliding. Also he still isn't so much better than Distin, Hangeland, or even 2 points better than Faye IMO.

Last edited by chanman on 2010 Apr 29, 20:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Jez » 2010 Apr 29, 20:41

chanman wrote:I still don't agree with his defence at an 85 when looking at other defenders in the EPL. I feel an 84 fits a little better in the ladders. He still isn't better than Toure, Distin, Hangeland, or even 2 points better than Faye IMO.

I'm the opposite to be honest. I think he's better than Toure, Distin, Hangeland and Faye :lol: Especially Toure who I've never really rated.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby chanman » 2010 Apr 29, 20:48

I agree he is a better defender, I just think in this department of defence he isn't (well Toure can be questioned, he hasn't been that great at Man City). He has other qualities that make him a better defender than those players I mentioned and he will definitely be even more with Deity's suggestions.

With him sitting at a 7 cons. rating, high jump rating, Marking & Sliding, good speed, 85 response, and a pretty good rating for Mentality which I think could be a little higher than an 84, these make him a great defender.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby s-cobar » 2010 May 07, 12:03

I´m still fine with the suggestions of Chris.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Ken » 2010 May 09, 22:39

I guess we can go ahead and update with Chris' suggestions ? I see no wrong with his suggestions apart from the Jump stat which I feel it can go all the way to 90 but I'm afraid people may say I'm aesthetic lover. :x

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby tomi77 » 2010 May 10, 03:51

Ken wrote:I guess we can go ahead and update with Chris' suggestions ? I see no wrong with his suggestions apart from the Jump stat which I feel it can go all the way to 90 but I'm afraid people may say I'm aesthetic lover. :x


Exactly, I'm absolutely agree, it really is one of the best players to jump. 8-)

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Fiddy » 2010 May 10, 12:48

well he is really, but i'd rate him on par with Thiago Silva ;)

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby deity86 » 2010 May 10, 13:31

Right, I've updated him. I've given him an 89 for Jump for the moment, does anyone else want to add their thoughts on a further +1 to it? I'm personally hesitant about it (Ken, you aesthetic lover! :lol:).

Paddy wrote:His FKA could arguably be even higher than a 69.
I'd still like to get your thoughts on this P.

EDIT - How often did he play as a SB at Ajax?

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby bssm » 2010 May 22, 23:11

Im sorry he is a good defender but there stats put his defensive positioning on par with Lucio and Sol Campbell. Vermalean has good speed, strength response and is great in the air, but his positioning can be off at times its certainly not at the same level as Lucio or Campbell and i don't think he deserves an 85.

A lot of times this season Vermaelen has come up the pitch too high to close someone down and been caught way out of position, its only because of his decent speed he has got away with it alot.

When he can't rely on his speed this poor positioning has cost Arsenal a lot this season for instance against Messi when he charged in for that header and got caught out of position his speed couldn't save him and it cost Arsenal an easy goal because of bad defensive positioning.

His speed should be a little higher his defence should come down though.

Suggestions:

TS: 82
ACC: 83
DEF: 83/84

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby deity86 » 2010 May 24, 09:45

Pure positioning wise I agree, he has been caught out a few times partly down to his own error and also in part to the fact there's a lack of communication at times. Taking the flip side, the accuracy of his tackles are top quality which one of the reasons he didn't chalk up too many (justified) yellow cards. I certainly wouldn't argue with an 84, it was talked about awhile ago also. I think Toure should also come down to the same value.

Speed I'm still unsure about with Tommy so I'd be interested to hear other people's ideas.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Phil » 2010 May 24, 09:51

They are the speed stats I suggested so I certainly agree, level with Lescott seems fair to me and comaring him wty Gallas they seem right as I think he deserves a higher ACC value than him imo.

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby braindead » 2010 May 24, 09:56

I also agree with his speed stats but I would go for TS 82 and Acc 82 due to bad positioning sometimes he makes it up with his speed and agility so I think he should be bit faster to compensate for his errors in his defence positining.I also would up his agility to 80 because he hasn't the typical size of normal centerback and so he has a natural wide agility radius,so 80 wouldn't hurt him

What do you think deity?

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Re: Thomas VERMAELEN

Postby Vandeach » 2010 May 24, 17:58

I have to be honest, I think Vermaelen is certainly the better positional defender out him and Kolo. Whilst Vermaelen's positioning can at times be lax, the majority of the time he is at the right position in his own penalty area and knows how close to stay to his defender. In conclusion, he is generally just an intelligent defender, and certainly better than the likes Hangeland and Toure, whom should be on an 84 sort of value. The flip-side is that Kolo has very accurate tackling, but that's what he has Sliding for, whether Vermaelen should have it considering his current defence value is debatable.

Looking at the ladder I still believe he is better than most of the people on an 84 value for defence. Toure, Distin and Hangeland are all people whom I believe should be sitting lower than Vermaelen, whereas Jagielka could arguably go up to an 85 value for defence. I could also agree to a slight raise in his speed stats.

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