Javier Mascherano

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Javier Mascherano

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 14:09

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Mascherano made his debut for Liverpool against Sheffield United on 24th February 2007 and was praised by the Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez and team captain Steven Gerrard after Liverpool's 4 - 0 victory. After playing in a match against Arsenal on 31 March, Benitez called Mascherano a "monster of a player." His first Champions League appearance came in the quarter-final first leg against PSV in Eindhoven on 3 April. Hastily establishing himself as a starter at the club, Mascherano played in the Champions League Final that year against AC Milan, which Liverpool lost 2-1. He was voted Liverpool's man of the match by the fans on the official Liverpool website.

In July 2007, Mascherano scored his first two goals for the senior Argentina's team during the Copa América 2007 and was widely selected as the best Argentine player in a squad full of stars.
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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Vandeach » 2009 May 06, 18:02

Kuyt's stamina is better than his mentality in my opinion, even though both are truly world class. Tevez is also much ahead of Mascherano when it comes to effort, I can't see them being level really, Tevez really is on another class in terms of effort and was even debating putting him over Kuyt, due to Kuyt's awesome stamina level. Mascherano is fair on a 92 in my opinion I think Terry has the better work-rate.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 May 07, 08:24

I absolutely disagree. Now, I accept I could be very wrong here, BUT!! -

Why is Tevez work rate so much better than Mascherano's?? Who covers more of the pitch? Who chases everyone/everything and doesn't stop?? Who plays a hell of a lot more minutes and has to rely on a higher mentality due to the extra stamina demands?

Remember that famous Theo run against us?? Who was chasing down a much fresher Theo like a mad man and CATCHING him, despite obviously looking tired, till he was pole-axed by Sami?? Mascherano is like a rabid dog, he let's nothing go. He gets up and down the pitch, defence attack and I have never seen him stop running. How is Tevez', who has far less to do's work rate so superior? :shock: I'm willing to be enlightened here, 'cause although I rate Tevez' work rate as good as or up there with any forward, I don't see how he should be higher than Mascherano. Haha. I'm all ears.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 07, 19:25

Alcohomicide sums it up pretty well I think. Also for Kuyt I think his mentality should be higher because he doesn't give up, he just won't stop running no matter how tired he is.

Tbh its pretty much impossible to tell whether he is running because he has energy left or because he is very determined but I think it is the latter.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Vandeach » 2009 May 07, 19:34

I think it may be just a personal preference between us, after all the two people who think he should be higher are Liverpool fans, and I want it lower and I suppourt the better side of Merseyside. I think your incorrect in saying Tevez has far less to do, I mean you say you've never seen Mascherano stop running, but have you ever seen Tevez stop running?! He is like a pitbull, even when left on the bench, does he go in a sulk or throw a tantrum? No, he doesn't he works his arse off at every chance he gets, I am aware Javier plays more minutes than Tevez but I think we all know that is down to tactical reasons, not that Tevez doesn't have the capability to. In a recent-ish match, I think against Aston Villa he actually dived in front ofa clearance from Gareth Barry, he shows that sort of commitment every match, even when rested for a few games, he still keeps coming back with the same fighting spirit again and again.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 07, 19:38

:lol: he slipped
I see no reason why they can't both be 95. Mascherano is just as commited as Tevez.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby jmg721 » 2009 May 07, 20:21

I'm not a frequent viewer of Mascherano...but I feel 95 mentality is overboard. I'd personally put him on par with the likes of Cambiasso & De Rossi....not just behind Gattuso :ugeek:

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 May 07, 20:41

Let me make this clear - Tevez is one of my heroes, United or not and I have never ever seen him -not- running. Maybe the opinion was not expressed correctly, I mean Mascherano due to tactical reason or whatever has more distance to cover, more players to chase and gets up and down the pitch more, so burns more stamina and the extra minutes do rack up as the season draws to an end.

Now, Tevez could probably play 100 games a season; he probably could play the same amount of games as Masch standing on his head. But he doesn't. I don't see why you think there is a gap between them. They are both pittbulls. They both exemplify everything you want in a players character. They are two of the greatest examples to young kids in my opinion. They're relentless.

I know how Tevez got his scar even - severe burns. He could have had an operation and not had to live with them, but it would mean he would not play football for a few months, so he played on. Liverpool fan or not I absolutely hold Tevez in the highest esteem, just like I hold Mascherano in high esteem. It's not about making one player better than another, because I want a realistic OF.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Vandeach » 2009 May 08, 15:56

I definitely feel his work-rate is better than Cambiasso, his work-rate is very sensible and Tevez and Mascherano's aren't really they do so much running, it isn't really sensible they are two fantastic fighters, however I still feel Tevez holds the upper hand in this aspect. Maschernao just seems too high for me at 95, he shouldn't be that close to Gatusso, who is one of the best ever in this aspect, he could even be on par with Roy Keane! I just think Tevez's running is slightly more determined and slightly more senseless than Mascherano's. I could probably see to Maschernao having a higher stamina than Tevez, but I feel Tevez's chases are second to none and is right up there with Gatusso and Kuyt, in that aspect.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 08, 16:43

95 isn't just behind Gatusso as it is God mode so it is more than two points, more like 3/4.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Alcohomicide » 2009 May 08, 21:15

1 red = 3/4 yellow. I can see what you're saying that maybe Mach has a slightly more stamina and plays in a more rigid system, but even one single point at this level is actually like 3/4 which is why I don't feel there is such a gap. (It's stupid, I know.)



I think this is a good vid to gauge his deceptive pace. (Obviously not ment!) It seems as if he can catch or keep up with any player if they are on the ball. Kaká and Walcott are two good examples. Although the Walcott chase isn't in there. :(

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Paddy » 2009 May 24, 14:39

His SP is far too low. I'd have him on 82/83.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 29, 13:20

Paddy wrote:His SP is far too low. I'd have him on 82/83.

Agree with that aswell. Personally I would say 83

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Tom » 2009 May 29, 13:25

lfc 4 eva wrote:95 isn't just behind Gatusso as it is God mode so it is more than two points, more like 3/4.


But that value for Mascherano is unfair on even harder-working players, why should he sit at an equal value to someone like Thompson. Why should he have such a higher Mentality value than Essien who has just as much determination as Mascherano (I do realise that Essien has a far higher Stamina value too). Yes, Mascherano is definitely in the world class range, but he shouldn't sit at a 95 for Mentality and nor should Tevez.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 29, 13:46

GoonerLover66 wrote:
lfc 4 eva wrote:95 isn't just behind Gatusso as it is God mode so it is more than two points, more like 3/4.


But that value for Mascherano is unfair on even harder-working players, why should he sit at an equal value to someone like Thompson. Why should he have such a higher Mentality value than Essien who has just as much determination as Mascherano (I do realise that Essien has a far higher Stamina value too). Yes, Mascherano is definitely in the world class range, but he shouldn't sit at a 95 for Mentality and nor should Tevez.

91 for Essien seems very harsh, although I agree they are similar in this area so Masch shouldn't be a 95.

Also who is Thompson?

And also Gooner where do you stand on other values such as DA, DS and SP

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby Ken » 2009 May 29, 15:35

lfc 4 eva wrote:
GoonerLover66 wrote:
lfc 4 eva wrote:95 isn't just behind Gatusso as it is God mode so it is more than two points, more like 3/4.


But that value for Mascherano is unfair on even harder-working players, why should he sit at an equal value to someone like Thompson. Why should he have such a higher Mentality value than Essien who has just as much determination as Mascherano (I do realise that Essien has a far higher Stamina value too). Yes, Mascherano is definitely in the world class range, but he shouldn't sit at a 95 for Mentality and nor should Tevez.

91 for Essien seems very harsh, although I agree they are similar in this area so Masch shouldn't be a 95.

Also who is Thompson?

And also Gooner where do you stand on other values such as DA, DS and SP


He means Steve Thompson from Burnley I believe.

As for the argument to whether Mascherano should have a equal or higher Mentality atrribute than Tevez I suggest that we should bring them closer instead of making one better than another in the ladder.I have some thought in my mind, how about this ?

Mascherano : 93 --> still 93

Essien : 91 --> 92

Tévez : 95 --> 94

So it's mean that Tévez still a bit of a chaser than Mascherano, and Essien is closer to them but still a point behind which I believe is fair enough.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 29, 17:04

I think we should leave mentality for now.
There are other stats in much more need of attention.
Mainly Dribbling, Passing and Balance

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby fishdalf » 2009 May 30, 10:27

Yup. For such a small guy i'm surprised his balance is as low as it is. He's only slightly weaker than Tevez on the ball, he can hold his own in a challenge and is very rarely shrugged off the ball. 84/85 for me.

His dribbling isn't far wrong, let's be honest. His dribble accuracy could stay the same as it is, maybe move up to 77, but no more than that. His dribble speed could do with being raised a few as he is quite quick with the ball at his feet. I'd say it could be raised to a low 80's number, say 80/81.

Passing is the one that's bugged me for the longest. I had prolonged discussions about this on the old boards. Mascherano quite simply is a better passer than this. He can play a brilliant short passing game, although not perfect on occasion, and he can play some amazing long balls, although consistency is the key here. Here would be the values i'd be looking at for this. Short passing 81/80. Long passing 80/78.

At the moment Tevez has greater short passing stats and almost level long passing. Kind of a joke really. I'd say he plays a similar passing game to Petrov of Villa, and my stats fall pretty close to him. His long passing could be raised up to about 80 for now, with speed staying the same. He is great at finding balls when needs be and this would not be overrating him at all.

So in conclusion:

Balance: 85
Dribble Accuracy: 77
Dribble Speed: 81
Short Pass Accuracy: 81
Short Pass Speed: 80
Long Pass Accuracy: 80
Long Pass Speed: 78

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby lfc 4 eva » 2009 May 30, 10:52

fishdalf wrote:So in conclusion:

Balance: 85
Dribble Accuracy: 77
Dribble Speed: 81
Short Pass Accuracy: 81
Short Pass Speed: 80
Long Pass Accuracy: 80
Long Pass Speed: 78


They are very similar to my stats for him so I 100% agree

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby fishdalf » 2009 May 30, 10:54

lfc 4 eva wrote:
fishdalf wrote:So in conclusion:

Balance: 85
Dribble Accuracy: 77
Dribble Speed: 81
Short Pass Accuracy: 81
Short Pass Speed: 80
Long Pass Accuracy: 80
Long Pass Speed: 78


They are very similar to my stats for him so I 100% agree
Haha so they are. To be fair they're pretty obvious changes, i'm sure there will be plenty more who agree and few who oppose.

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Re: Javier MASCHERANO

Postby BECKS23LA » 2009 May 30, 14:17

Agree with all exept BB (max 83), for me Anderson is Stronger

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