Lionel Messi

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Lionel Messi

Postby PES Stats Database » 2008 Dec 09, 10:56

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CLASSIC SET(S): 2010-2011 & 2009-2010 & 2005-2006

Last edited by vinnie on 2014 Jun 07, 00:41, edited 14 times in total.
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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby vinnie » 2012 Apr 27, 04:02

Di Stefano was Argentine born, he earned spanish citizenship by staying in madrid. He had dual citizenship and played for both NT.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Kim » 2012 Apr 27, 14:04

I'm not suggesting the 97 DA based on one match. He's showing signs of decline pretty much since the second part of the season. It became pretty much obvious since the game against Levante; What i'm saying is that the "glued to foot" effect is slightly less obvious, and Messi is more and more prone to get the ball stolen because he pushed it too far. That happened several times versus Madrid and Chelsea. Yes. He was tightly marked in those two matchs, but it happened to him last year too, and he was still able to eliminate some defenders with ease before getting caught.
Don't get me wrong, he still have an astonishing ball control, and he's still unmatched in this area, but he's just one level below his "2011" self.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Luisito » 2012 Apr 27, 15:16

vinnie wrote:Di Stefano was Argentine born, he earned spanish citizenship by staying in madrid. He had dual citizenship and played for both NT.


he played even for Colombia and playes like 5 seasons in Colmbian liga with Millonarios in his rest of career he was he was in Spain where he most stayed thats may a reason why many people see him more Spanish then Argentino

about the Messi very high jumping i am not sure may the defenders dont jumped well in the pics , as from 1 am sure Messi jumping is noting near to Roberto Carlos , header is also weak , should never be in yellows , to have high in headers dont means always you need to score plenty headers also players with good headers can do nice asists with the head

what about boosting his teamwork as i see it incredibly low

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby bitz » 2012 Apr 27, 16:30

Kim wrote:I'm not suggesting the 97 DA based on one match. He's showing signs of decline pretty much since the second part of the season. It became pretty much obvious since the game against Levante; What i'm saying is that the "glued to foot" effect is slightly less obvious, and Messi is more and more prone to get the ball stolen because he pushed it too far. That happened several times versus Madrid and Chelsea. Yes. He was tightly marked in those two matchs, but it happened to him last year too, and he was still able to eliminate some defenders with ease before getting caught.
Don't get me wrong, he still have an astonishing ball control, and he's still unmatched in this area, but he's just one level below his "2011" self.


I agree, I've watched nearly all matches of the second half of the season and indeed his DA has slightly declined, perhaps due to accumulated fatigue. Although there were a few glimpses of 98 DA in the 2nd leg vs Chelsea. I am very curious to see Messi next season, and generally how Barcelona will shape under a new manager.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby vinnie » 2012 Apr 27, 22:30

I was thinking, if TW dictates movement and support of play, then theoretically shouldn't Messi have one of the lowest TW? IRL he is the laziest (or most conservative) player. With 80 TW it seems he would move alot more then he actually does. Konami's number of 67 is sticking in my head, It sounds outrageous, but really it justs influences his playing style and tempo, not ability. In game the 67 TW seems to work ok for Messi actually, he already has passing so when he has the ball he is still looking for a pass. Is this a wrong thought?

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Xyder » 2012 Apr 28, 12:23

vinnie wrote:I was thinking, if TW dictates movement and support of play, then theoretically shouldn't Messi have one of the lowest TW? IRL he is the laziest (or most conservative) player. With 80 TW it seems he would move alot more then he actually does. Konami's number of 67 is sticking in my head, It sounds outrageous, but really it justs influences his playing style and tempo, not ability. In game the 67 TW seems to work ok for Messi actually, he already has passing so when he has the ball he is still looking for a pass. Is this a wrong thought?


Don't think so, 67 could fit for his early days, but Messi is a supportive player to play the ball in 3/4 half of the pitch. It's true he dribbles a lot, trying to surpass an impossible number of players (*dribbling and mazing run, also influences in this), but if Konami rate him on TW 83, it's because they consider him a player who can deliver the ball to his mates with some ease.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby ballmer » 2012 Apr 28, 12:32

Dropping deep is 'supportive play'. I think the 67 TW must have been a remnant from when he played as a winger. In PES 2012, he's given 83 TW.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Defo » 2012 Apr 28, 12:40

vinnie wrote:I was thinking, if TW dictates movement and support of play, then theoretically shouldn't Messi have one of the lowest TW? IRL he is the laziest (or most conservative) player. With 80 TW it seems he would move alot more then he actually does. Konami's number of 67 is sticking in my head, It sounds outrageous, but really it justs influences his playing style and tempo, not ability. In game the 67 TW seems to work ok for Messi actually, he already has passing so when he has the ball he is still looking for a pass. Is this a wrong thought?


This whole 67 TW thing is because he had this default value in PES2011 (that means the stats were referring to 2010's messi). Actually the default set plays very good, but it doesn't replicate the actual all-round offensive player Messi is.

As Ballmer said he has 83 now, and I doubt TW works different in the 2012 engine...anyway he's something between 78-80 for me, I think the current value is fine.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Luisito » 2012 Apr 29, 06:38

though he was deserving mid to high 80s in team work , great team player and only playing for Barcelona , his team work is simply great captain status , his not a selfish player like Cristiano Ronaldo , teamwork 80 still seems very avarage for me

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby furymaker » 2012 Apr 29, 09:21

teamwork as teamwork , messi is probably the best attacked in terms of pure teamwork. He is the main guy in every Barca attack , dropping deep , passing around , supporting the build up play , running around and offering himself to teammates , running inside on a cross . If teamwork is what I think it is , he should have really high value :S

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Watchallthematch » 2012 Apr 29, 22:19

After this video I would change DA 99 and TCC 98 xD but to be honest increase reactions please He only need one look to catch the ball or make and incredible pass :D


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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Kerry » 2012 Apr 29, 22:22

Shouldn't his RES be very high already?

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Watchallthematch » 2012 Apr 29, 23:40

Yeah how the hell Xavi or Puyol has more RES than Messi?

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby CHarper » 2012 Apr 30, 05:03

according to the TW, does not deserve a 80, deserves more.
Konami gives a value of 83, and consider it little.
He, along with Xavi and Iniesta are the trio that plays over the ball in a game, in games Messi touches the ball about 90 times on average, consider an increase in AGG or TW.
Messi is delayed enough to make plays, and always offers to the pass.
TW should be around the 90's
or AGG around 90 also.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby Los Muchachos » 2012 Apr 30, 06:59

[quote="Watchallthematch"]After this video I would change DA 99 and TCC 98 xD but to be honest increase reactions please He only need one look to catch the ball or make and incredible pass :D

Reply: You cant rate him only after one match In fact against Chelsea and Real Madrid , I would not consider him givind DA 97. He played so poor against these sides. But DA 98 is ok

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby tasmin » 2012 Apr 30, 09:40

when he plays for barca he shows how good can he be in link play.it looks more of tw>att in general rather than att>tw. i doubt with out high team work players(xavi,iniesta,fabregas) he could play so naturally . his less success for argentina could be an example. he is in natural a great link player.

i think bitz had him at 93 tw and that certainly suits his barca play style.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby jurgens » 2012 Apr 30, 10:49

he needs higher LPA. His long passes have been possibly even more accurate than his short.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby JIN726 » 2012 Apr 30, 13:03

yes,i feel so.I used to think he has a big potential in lpa.Now his lpa become very well just as expected.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby JIN726 » 2012 Apr 30, 13:05

yes,i feel so.I used to think he has a big potential in lpa.Now his lpa become very well just as expected.

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Re: Leo MESSI

Postby ballmer » 2012 Apr 30, 14:17

What value are you thinking of jurgens? While we're at it, does anyone else think he needs a yellow value for LPS? I know it's only a few points lower, but isn't 78/79 enough for his range. At the moment he's only 2 points below Iniesta for example, who makes much longer aerial passes than Messi does.

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